Question about modes

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Horseflesh

Registered User

Joined: 02/04/19

Posts: 4

Hi ok my question is if I'm in G major 3rd frett and I wanted to play say b phrygian could I take the shape from the 7th frett and use that over the 3rd frett 1st position instead or am I way off ? Thx

#1

Hi ok my question is if I'm in G major 3rd frett and I wanted to play say b phrygian could I take the shape from the 7th frett and use that over the 3rd frett 1st position instead or am I way off ? Thx

ChristopherSchlegel

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 08/09/05

Posts: 7657

Originally Posted by: Horseflesh

Hi ok my question is if I'm in G major 3rd frett and I wanted to play say b phrygian could I take the shape from the 7th frett and use that over the 3rd frett 1st position instead or am I way off ? Thx

B phrygian is the 3rd mode of the G major scale. They contain the exact same notes, but starting on a different note as the reference point.

G major scale:

g-a-b-c-d-e-f#

B phrygian mode:

b-c-d-e-f#-g-a

I cover modes here:

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=370

In particular you would use this pattern moved down 2 frets. Because this tutorial presents the modes of the major scale in the key of A major.

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=10746&s_id=370

Does that make sense?

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

#2

Originally Posted by: Horseflesh

Hi ok my question is if I'm in G major 3rd frett and I wanted to play say b phrygian could I take the shape from the 7th frett and use that over the 3rd frett 1st position instead or am I way off ? Thx

B phrygian is the 3rd mode of the G major scale. They contain the exact same notes, but starting on a different note as the reference point.

G major scale:

g-a-b-c-d-e-f#

B phrygian mode:

b-c-d-e-f#-g-a

I cover modes here:

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=370

In particular you would use this pattern moved down 2 frets. Because this tutorial presents the modes of the major scale in the key of A major.

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=10746&s_id=370

Does that make sense?

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

Horseflesh

Registered User

Joined: 02/04/19

Posts: 4

Hey Chris thank you for the response, im gonna dive a bit further into the series but another question. If I were to solo in a mode say mixalidian would the starting position be on the parent key or? Thx

#3

Hey Chris thank you for the response, im gonna dive a bit further into the series but another question. If I were to solo in a mode say mixalidian would the starting position be on the parent key or? Thx

ChristopherSchlegel

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 08/09/05

Posts: 7657

You're welcome for the reply. I think any confusion you have on this issue can be cleared up by working through both of my modes tutorials.

I've seen a lot of guitar students get very confused about how modes work. The problem comes from knowing that you can think of the mode in 2 different ways: as derived from a parent scale, but also as a "scale" in it's own right.

The essential thing to focus on is how they sound different due to the interval formulas of each mode. Then you learn what shapes those interval formulas make on the fretboard. That's when my first tutorial will help.

Modes of the Major Scale

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=370

Originally Posted by: Horseflesh
If I were to solo in a mode say mixalidian would the starting position be on the parent key or?[/p]

If you want the sound of the mixolydian mode then you start by learning the scale formula of the mixolydian mode & what fretboard pattern that forms.

If you only want to play the mixolydian mode then you don't need to reference it's parent key. You only need to worry about the parent scale if you are playing in some key signature in the first place, then you want to play over a chord progression or you want to modulate.

For example, G mixolydian is the 5th mode of the C major scale. But if you only want to play in G mixolydian, then you don't need to worry about thinking about C major & deriving the mode from that key, and so forth. You just play G mixolydian.

The mixolydian mode is essentially a major scale with a minor 7th instead of a major 7th scale degree. If you want to play in G mixolydian, then you find a G note & apply the interval formula of the mixolydian mode. You do this by finding a G note & then visualize the mixolydian pattern on the fretboard with the G as the root note of that pattern.

This is one possible shape the mixolydian mode forms on the fretboard. Put the 1 on G & you are playing G mixolydian (in this case on the 3rd fret of the low E string). Notice that 7th scale degree is a minor 7th from the 1 (root note). You can directly see & hear the interval formula.

uploaded image

This tutorial covers playing in each individual mode in great detail.

Practicing Modes of the Major Scale

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=770

Hope that helps!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

#4

You're welcome for the reply. I think any confusion you have on this issue can be cleared up by working through both of my modes tutorials.

I've seen a lot of guitar students get very confused about how modes work. The problem comes from knowing that you can think of the mode in 2 different ways: as derived from a parent scale, but also as a "scale" in it's own right.

The essential thing to focus on is how they sound different due to the interval formulas of each mode. Then you learn what shapes those interval formulas make on the fretboard. That's when my first tutorial will help.

Modes of the Major Scale

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=370

Originally Posted by: Horseflesh
If I were to solo in a mode say mixalidian would the starting position be on the parent key or?[/p]

If you want the sound of the mixolydian mode then you start by learning the scale formula of the mixolydian mode & what fretboard pattern that forms.

If you only want to play the mixolydian mode then you don't need to reference it's parent key. You only need to worry about the parent scale if you are playing in some key signature in the first place, then you want to play over a chord progression or you want to modulate.

For example, G mixolydian is the 5th mode of the C major scale. But if you only want to play in G mixolydian, then you don't need to worry about thinking about C major & deriving the mode from that key, and so forth. You just play G mixolydian.

The mixolydian mode is essentially a major scale with a minor 7th instead of a major 7th scale degree. If you want to play in G mixolydian, then you find a G note & apply the interval formula of the mixolydian mode. You do this by finding a G note & then visualize the mixolydian pattern on the fretboard with the G as the root note of that pattern.

This is one possible shape the mixolydian mode forms on the fretboard. Put the 1 on G & you are playing G mixolydian (in this case on the 3rd fret of the low E string). Notice that 7th scale degree is a minor 7th from the 1 (root note). You can directly see & hear the interval formula.

uploaded image

This tutorial covers playing in each individual mode in great detail.

Practicing Modes of the Major Scale

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=770

Hope that helps!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

ChristopherSchlegel

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 08/09/05

Posts: 7657

Originally Posted by: Horseflesh
If I were to solo in a mode say mixalidian would the starting position be on the parent key or?

I woke up this morning & thought about this question again. :) I realized you might be asking in general about how & when to use mixolydian.

My previous answer was: if you want to use mixolydian, then use mixolydian! And how to do that.

But you can also use mixolydian in the context of a chord progress with reference to a key signature or parent scale. You could do that if you are in the key of C major for example, and you have a chord progression with the V chord in it.

C (I) / Am (vi) / Dm (ii) / G (V)

The Roman numeral in a major key progression shows you which mode to use.

Over the C (I) major chord, you'd play C ionian.

Over the Am (vi) major chord, you'd play A aeolian.

Over the Dm (ii) major chord, you'd play D dorian.

Over the G (V) major chord, you'd play G mixolydian.

Now notice that this is really overcomplicating things, because essentially all those modes are just the notes of the C major scale from a different starting point. So, it's more efficient to just say, use the C major scale & target the chord tones of the chords as they change.

However, if you have a modulation, then it becomes a little more useful to think in modes.

C (I) / C7 (V of IV) / F (IV) / G7 (V)

The Roman numeral in a major key progression shows you which mode to use.

Over the C (I) major chord, you'd play C ionian.

Over the C7 (V of IV) chord, you'd play C mixolydian (fifth mode of F major) because you are playing the V of the next chord.

Over the F (IV) major chord, you're back in C major targeting chord tones from F (f-a-c) or F lydian.

Over the G (V) major chord, you'd play G mixolydian.

This approach is sometimes used in jazz. This tutorial covers that kind of approach.

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1757

And it might also be helpful to have a look at my collection on improvisation.

https://www.guitartricks.com/collection/learning-to-improvise

Hope that helps!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

#5

Originally Posted by: Horseflesh
If I were to solo in a mode say mixalidian would the starting position be on the parent key or?

I woke up this morning & thought about this question again. :) I realized you might be asking in general about how & when to use mixolydian.

My previous answer was: if you want to use mixolydian, then use mixolydian! And how to do that.

But you can also use mixolydian in the context of a chord progress with reference to a key signature or parent scale. You could do that if you are in the key of C major for example, and you have a chord progression with the V chord in it.

C (I) / Am (vi) / Dm (ii) / G (V)

The Roman numeral in a major key progression shows you which mode to use.

Over the C (I) major chord, you'd play C ionian.

Over the Am (vi) major chord, you'd play A aeolian.

Over the Dm (ii) major chord, you'd play D dorian.

Over the G (V) major chord, you'd play G mixolydian.

Now notice that this is really overcomplicating things, because essentially all those modes are just the notes of the C major scale from a different starting point. So, it's more efficient to just say, use the C major scale & target the chord tones of the chords as they change.

However, if you have a modulation, then it becomes a little more useful to think in modes.

C (I) / C7 (V of IV) / F (IV) / G7 (V)

The Roman numeral in a major key progression shows you which mode to use.

Over the C (I) major chord, you'd play C ionian.

Over the C7 (V of IV) chord, you'd play C mixolydian (fifth mode of F major) because you are playing the V of the next chord.

Over the F (IV) major chord, you're back in C major targeting chord tones from F (f-a-c) or F lydian.

Over the G (V) major chord, you'd play G mixolydian.

This approach is sometimes used in jazz. This tutorial covers that kind of approach.

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1757

And it might also be helpful to have a look at my collection on improvisation.

https://www.guitartricks.com/collection/learning-to-improvise

Hope that helps!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory