Dissonant scales

Has anyone got any idea what scale or scales Robert Fripp or the guitarist from Primus use to get those discordant solos?

It's not always about the actual scale, it's how it fits with whatever rhythm is going on underneath. It's also not always within a scale (players frequently go outside) and even intervals of popular scales sound dissonant if played together.

If you want a dissonant sound, look at diminished scales, or the locrian mode....

Octatonic Scale - Alternating Whole and Half Steps
C D Eb F F# G# A B

Whole Tone Scale - All Whole Steps
C D E F# G# A#

The octatonic scale is also called the Diminished scale.

Robert Fripp uses an odd tuning for his guitar that he's called New Standard Tuning. You should check it out.

Thanks guys, I've been experimenting with the diminished scale for awhile now but it's difficult to get it to sound like Mr Fripp. I thought I was missing something - probably just need more practice :)

I'll definitely check out the New Standard Tuning.

The wholetone scale, as Kole suggested, is what Larry Lalonde (of Primus) uses pretty often.

Well shoot, you can play the RIGHT scale over the RIGHT chord and still have it sound dissonant. It's as much a matter of what scale you use as it is a function of how you are phrasing the notes. Ever wonder why guitarists still scratch their heads at Django Reinhardt? It's because improvising is a seriously difficult thing to do--it's beyond the right scales.

A phrase in G mixolydian that starts on G, does some widdly-woos through the scale, and ends on A probably won't sound that great, since a major second over a major chord doesn't sound all that great. ((In terms of classical interpretations of consonance and dissonance o'course))

Don't forget you can just be lazy and alter the existing scales in some way or another. Just play C major aug 5 instead of C major if you're going for some dissonance. Hell, play Csus4 or Csus2 arpeggios over C major. You don't really need new scales, just alter the ones you know by one or two key degrees ((i.e. the ones that make them sound good))

The diminished scale, however, to my ear, is not as dissonant as some might think. It works over a staggering array of chords because of its symmetrical nature.

Trust me, with so many years of this instrument being played and millions of denizens---the possibilities for sounding bad are endless! :)

And this is the problem I've found - there is a very fine line between playing in a dissonant way and sounding like you just can't play at all! ;)

First an observation about the title of the thread. There is no such thing as a dissonant scale. Dissonance is the result of two or more simultaneously sounding notes. And almost any scale can provide two notes that are dissonant.

What Fripp song or solo are you talking about? King Crimson early, middle, present? League of Gentlemen? Eno projects? Crafty Guitarist?

Fripp gets a lot of milage our of every scale he uses. :)

Larry from Primus usually just plays a lot of diads & triads containing flat 5ths, 2nds and flat 2nds in order to get that effect. Examples:

Also as ren said:

Exactly.

Point taken - I realised straight after I'd started the thread that I should have named it 'Dissonant Solos' or something like that. :)




Specifically I was thinking of the solos on the track 'Indiscipline' from the Discipline Album or from some of the solos from the Larks Tongue album.