Curious. I'm playing Smoke on the Water quite a bit at the moment, with the GT backing track. In the lesson for the solo, Dave says that the solo is mostly in G minor, with a bit of C dorian, 'and this works great because C dorian is a mode of G minor.'
So, what I want to know is:
* Does the above statement just mean that the G minor scale has the same notes as the C dorian scale (but with a different starting note?)
* If yes, why can't we just say that the whole thing is in G minor?
Yes, C dorian mode belongs to a same Bb major/G natural minor scale with a different starting (root) note. And, yes, we could say the whole thing is in G minor.
Each of the modes in the scale: Bb ionian (major), C dorian, D phrygian, Eb lydian, F mixolydian, G aeolian (minor) and A locrian have the same notes. All the modes have different fingering patterns, and they have a characteristic sound, as the half step intervals takes place on different positions on the scale.
Ok, got it. I already knew about the relative minor idea (G minor being the relative minor of Bb major). So it seems this is an extension of the same thing - it's just that there are more modes of a scale than I realized.
Thanks.
Great tune with fun guitar parts!
Originally Posted by: ctredwinDoes the above statement just mean that the G minor scale has the same notes as the C dorian scale (but with a different starting note?)
[/quote]Yes. Good observation!
Smoke On The Water is in the key of G minor (relative major is B-flat major). The 2nd mode of B-flat is C dorian. So, all those notes are part of the same home key.
G aeolian (relative minor scale)[br]G-A-Bb-C-D-Eb-F
B-flat major (ionian)[br]Bb-C-D-Eb-F-G-A
C dorian[br]C-D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb
[quote=ctredwin]If yes, why can't we just say that the whole thing is in G minor?
You certain can. But notice that the bass motion at that point (the bass guitar & organ) are playing a C minor chord. So it just makes it a little more precise to observe that the bass motion moves to a C (iv chord) and Blackmore clearly moves to a C pattern & position on the guitar. So, it creates a dorian sound at that point.
You can say the whole thing is in G minor & that is also correct. It's just a small additional detail to observe that when the bass plays a C, Blackmore's lick is in C dorian.
Hope that helps! Have fun with it!
ok - so if I tie that back into Jarkko's reply, and try to work out the general rule, is it correct to describe it all as follows?
If I take any major key, I can work through the notes in that scale to identify all the modes as follows:
Staying with the key of Bb:
1st mode: Bb ionian (major). Bb-C-D-Eb-F-G-A
2nd mode: C dorian. Same scale, but start on the 2 note in the key (C)
3rd Mode: D phrygian. Same scale, but start on the major 3 note in the key (D)
4th mode: Eb lydian. Same scale, but start on the 4 note in the key (Eb)
5th mode: F mixolydian. Same scale, but start on the 5 note in the key (F)
6th mode: G aeolian (minor). Same scale, but start on the major 6 note in the key (G)
7th mode: A locrian. Same scale, but start on the major 7 note in the key (A)
Then if we looked at the key of C, it would be C ionian, D dorian, E phrygian, F lydian, and so on...
Originally Posted by: ctredwinok - so if I tie that back into Jarkko's reply, and try to work out the general rule, is it correct to describe it all as follows?
If I take any major key, I can work through the notes in that scale to identify all the modes as follows:
Staying with the key of Bb:
1st mode: Bb ionian (major). Bb-C-D-Eb-F-G-A
2nd mode: C dorian. Same scale, but start on the 2 note in the key (C)
3rd Mode: D phrygian. Same scale, but start on the major 3 note in the key (D)
4th mode: Eb lydian. Same scale, but start on the 4 note in the key (Eb)
5th mode: F mixolydian. Same scale, but start on the 5 note in the key (F)
6th mode: G aeolian (minor). Same scale, but start on the major 6 note in the key (G)
7th mode: A locrian. Same scale, but start on the major 7 note in the key (A)
Then if we looked at the key of C, it would be C ionian, D dorian, E phrygian, F lydian, and so on...
You got it absolutely right.
Cool. Funny thing is, I never bothered to pay attention to the bar of dorian in Smoke on the Water before, because of not knowing what it meant. But now I have, you can hear the rhythm section going to a C chord, so it works.
From a music theory point of view, the whole thing is in G minor and talking about modes here confuses what modes are. Modes are scales, and for something to be talked about as being in a particular mode, the tonal center of the melody needs to be the tonic of that mode. That is, the KEY of the melody needs to be the KEY of the mode. [br][br]In Blackmore's solo, the note tonal center is G. Moreover, the resolution of the solo is a movement from D to G -- that is from the V to the I of G minor using C# as a passing tone. The final two notes are a classic 4th to tonic resolution. [br][br]Very few rock songs actually use modes in any real sense. They do appear in Gregorian chant, and modal jazz, and modern orchestral music with great frequency. But not in (most) popular music. [br][br]Using a particular scale shape on a chromatic instrument to ensure one is hitting notes related to the harmonic structure isn't using a mode. It's just playing in the key of the melody in a way that encourages using chord tones to manage consonance across the solo. [br][br]If someone wants to really investigate modes in music theory, I highly recommend the book "Modal Diatonicism (Harmonic and Melodic Music Theory and Method for the 21st Century) (Volume 3)" which goes over modal composition in great detail.
Originally Posted by: ctredwinOk, got it. I already knew about the relative minor idea (G minor being the relative minor of Bb major). So it seems this is an extension of the same thing - it's just that there are more modes of a scale than I realized.
Thanks.
To me the Mode Names are good as a means to be able to distinguish between the different shapes of the respective scale :)
