Playing back in black

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snpfarm

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Joined: 07/16/21

Posts: 58

Originally Posted by: manXcat
Originally Posted by: snpfarm
Originally Posted by: manXcat
Although a BIB rhythm lesson, watch how Andy (Shutup & Play) -who does have small hands

Thanks so much for the info and links. I watched them several times. Andy may have small hands but using the neck of his guitar as a reference I can tell his hands are bigger than mine. As an example my pinky is barely one and a half inches long.

Presumably your datum/frame of reference for the measurement is from the inner web between it and the ring finger? If so, inarguably that is very short, which proportionally will be limiting on your max fret span. That said, your hands and span appear to be on the extreme end of the adult small and short scale. You have my empathy. Guitar is the singular pursuit of the many I've participated in over the course of a lifetime where I've found my hand shape, size & finger length and intrinsic flexibility (endo/exo vs ecto) impacted detrimentially to the relative degree it does.

The solutions I've found personally for guitar are;

1. Persevere and try harder initially. Everyone starting out blames inflexibility, lack of co-ordination and thinks their hands could be bigger unless they are the size of the late Chuck Berry's. In your case, you appear to have eliminated that as the underlying primary factor.

2. IMPORTANT: Buy guitars which are a good body fit for you, not because the brand is popular, common amongst others with normal to large size hands or because of the status of the brand on the headstock. Consider all the factors of string spacing, radius, nut width, neck profile, fret size, weight & balance. Short scale can help, but owning multiple examples of both, IMPEHO scale length is not the most important physical factor vs the others mentioned prior. The more going in your favour, the easier fretting will present.

3. Look for pragmatic workarounds and be flexible, figuratively. You'll find the truly useful inspirational examples to hep when you're struggling come from people with smaller than average hands like Andy (S&P) and although proportional for his 5' 7" stature, Steve Stine. Those who don't can never walk that proverbial 'mile in your shoes'. Regardless they'll offer up straw argument always by way of individual examples of famous guitar players with small hands, and some may even be capable of empathy rather than dismissal as an irrelevance in hardly disguised contempt, the fact is that they can never truly comprehend or understand that encumbrance and challenge from the personal experience perspective. They can be more an irritation than helpful in subliminally suggesting ipso facto the problem is psychological rather than physical.

4. Lastly, one doesn't have to like it how it is, but one does have to accept the limitation and work with it.

Yeh, that sucks I know, as in most other many other physical sports/activities I've participated in over the course of a lifetime, i.e. squash racquets as but a singular example there are tradeoffs of speed over reach, and hand size doesn't affect either grip on the racket or power delivery to any significant degree. In fact, apart from reach from centre of court for ectos, stout or short stature can be used to tactical and strategic advantage as can the opposite in dictating the pace and style of the game played on court. If only it were so with guitar.

What is/are your electric guitar/s? Correct me if I'm wrong, but checking moments ago, you said you ended up with an Epi LP Standard? Drop dead gorgous shape and aesthetically pleasing no argument, and not deriding the potential achievable tone (pickup dependent), but as an instrument to fret for smaller handed people despite being short scale, no. Emphatically. Just no.

Notwithstanding that very heavy though aesthetically attractive awkward shaped body, dreadful headstock body CG imbalance & neck rise if not wearing a strap -opposite of the SG, and that chunky neck of the traditional standard. Ugh. Yes, I am biased and would dearly love to love the LP, but I'm pragmatically ruled by the head not emotion nor intercedence of ego. There are simply smarter options for smaller handed people which will prove a better fit for you if you opt to take them, IMV or course. OOMV.


Hopefully there's something encouraging and helpful in there -if brutally honest.

All the best with your personal search and continuing journey.

Thank you.....I think??

I have zero issues playing my Epiphone Les Paul Standard. That's why I bought it. I'm well aware of what my limitations are. I try to find work around for songs I have trouble with....actually that's what I thought I was doing when I started this thread....asking if anyone might know of another way to play a particular section of the song that I had trouble with.

This trying to get my left hand and right hand to work together is driving me crazy!

#11

Originally Posted by: manXcat
Originally Posted by: snpfarm
Originally Posted by: manXcat
Although a BIB rhythm lesson, watch how Andy (Shutup & Play) -who does have small hands

Thanks so much for the info and links. I watched them several times. Andy may have small hands but using the neck of his guitar as a reference I can tell his hands are bigger than mine. As an example my pinky is barely one and a half inches long.

Presumably your datum/frame of reference for the measurement is from the inner web between it and the ring finger? If so, inarguably that is very short, which proportionally will be limiting on your max fret span. That said, your hands and span appear to be on the extreme end of the adult small and short scale. You have my empathy. Guitar is the singular pursuit of the many I've participated in over the course of a lifetime where I've found my hand shape, size & finger length and intrinsic flexibility (endo/exo vs ecto) impacted detrimentially to the relative degree it does.

The solutions I've found personally for guitar are;

1. Persevere and try harder initially. Everyone starting out blames inflexibility, lack of co-ordination and thinks their hands could be bigger unless they are the size of the late Chuck Berry's. In your case, you appear to have eliminated that as the underlying primary factor.

2. IMPORTANT: Buy guitars which are a good body fit for you, not because the brand is popular, common amongst others with normal to large size hands or because of the status of the brand on the headstock. Consider all the factors of string spacing, radius, nut width, neck profile, fret size, weight & balance. Short scale can help, but owning multiple examples of both, IMPEHO scale length is not the most important physical factor vs the others mentioned prior. The more going in your favour, the easier fretting will present.

3. Look for pragmatic workarounds and be flexible, figuratively. You'll find the truly useful inspirational examples to hep when you're struggling come from people with smaller than average hands like Andy (S&P) and although proportional for his 5' 7" stature, Steve Stine. Those who don't can never walk that proverbial 'mile in your shoes'. Regardless they'll offer up straw argument always by way of individual examples of famous guitar players with small hands, and some may even be capable of empathy rather than dismissal as an irrelevance in hardly disguised contempt, the fact is that they can never truly comprehend or understand that encumbrance and challenge from the personal experience perspective. They can be more an irritation than helpful in subliminally suggesting ipso facto the problem is psychological rather than physical.

4. Lastly, one doesn't have to like it how it is, but one does have to accept the limitation and work with it.

Yeh, that sucks I know, as in most other many other physical sports/activities I've participated in over the course of a lifetime, i.e. squash racquets as but a singular example there are tradeoffs of speed over reach, and hand size doesn't affect either grip on the racket or power delivery to any significant degree. In fact, apart from reach from centre of court for ectos, stout or short stature can be used to tactical and strategic advantage as can the opposite in dictating the pace and style of the game played on court. If only it were so with guitar.

What is/are your electric guitar/s? Correct me if I'm wrong, but checking moments ago, you said you ended up with an Epi LP Standard? Drop dead gorgous shape and aesthetically pleasing no argument, and not deriding the potential achievable tone (pickup dependent), but as an instrument to fret for smaller handed people despite being short scale, no. Emphatically. Just no.

Notwithstanding that very heavy though aesthetically attractive awkward shaped body, dreadful headstock body CG imbalance & neck rise if not wearing a strap -opposite of the SG, and that chunky neck of the traditional standard. Ugh. Yes, I am biased and would dearly love to love the LP, but I'm pragmatically ruled by the head not emotion nor intercedence of ego. There are simply smarter options for smaller handed people which will prove a better fit for you if you opt to take them, IMV or course. OOMV.


Hopefully there's something encouraging and helpful in there -if brutally honest.

All the best with your personal search and continuing journey.

Thank you.....I think??

I have zero issues playing my Epiphone Les Paul Standard. That's why I bought it. I'm well aware of what my limitations are. I try to find work around for songs I have trouble with....actually that's what I thought I was doing when I started this thread....asking if anyone might know of another way to play a particular section of the song that I had trouble with.

This trying to get my left hand and right hand to work together is driving me crazy!

manXcat

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Joined: 02/17/18

Posts: 1288

Originally Posted by: snpfarm

I have zero issues playing my Epiphone Les Paul Standard. That's why I bought it.

OK. If you say so, but if you think about it, that contradicts your request for a workaround if you "have zero issues playing my Epiphone Les Paul Standard". FWIW I would, and albeit smaller than average or proportional to height, my hands are larger than yours given the information supplied.

Just trying to help offering viable alternatives not stuck in the "one size should fit all" mentality box. What you choose to do with the info is up to you. Horse to water idiom.

Among my inventory I've got a Harley Benton SC Custom (customised Les Paul clone) BTW, but they have a fast "SlimTaper" profiled contemporary neck and although they are a solid mahogany body and still heavy relatively, they aren't quite the log the thicker bodied standard Epis are. Played those chunky necked Epis. Ugh. Not for my hands. There are just alternatives better suited to smaller hands AFAIC.

That said, sincerely glad yours now apparently works for you with "zero issues".

Originally Posted by: snpfarm
I'm well aware of what my limitations are. I try to find work around for songs I have trouble with....actually that's what I thought I was doing when I started this thread....asking if anyone might know of another way to play a particular section of the song that I had trouble with.

Already provided. Did you actually watch right through beginning to end how Andy fingers and frets BIB and his later comments on how to execute the stretch I provided for you in a timed hotlink within those hotlinks? That's about as much of a workaround and solid advice for smaller hands as you'll find IMV&E. Re Andy's hands, remember the camera distorts & always makes everything look larger than in real life. Andy does have shortish thicker fingers, but a loads of experience and many decades on that guitar as well as being an exceptionally gifted tutor. Note how he places the LP body when in the sitting position too.

Anyway GL with it regardless. My intention was to assist, not dent buyer pride or offend ego by being misinterpreted as denigrating your guitar per se. In time you may, or not, discover the validity of what I've said previously = true.

#12

Originally Posted by: snpfarm

I have zero issues playing my Epiphone Les Paul Standard. That's why I bought it.

OK. If you say so, but if you think about it, that contradicts your request for a workaround if you "have zero issues playing my Epiphone Les Paul Standard". FWIW I would, and albeit smaller than average or proportional to height, my hands are larger than yours given the information supplied.

Just trying to help offering viable alternatives not stuck in the "one size should fit all" mentality box. What you choose to do with the info is up to you. Horse to water idiom.

Among my inventory I've got a Harley Benton SC Custom (customised Les Paul clone) BTW, but they have a fast "SlimTaper" profiled contemporary neck and although they are a solid mahogany body and still heavy relatively, they aren't quite the log the thicker bodied standard Epis are. Played those chunky necked Epis. Ugh. Not for my hands. There are just alternatives better suited to smaller hands AFAIC.

That said, sincerely glad yours now apparently works for you with "zero issues".

Originally Posted by: snpfarm
I'm well aware of what my limitations are. I try to find work around for songs I have trouble with....actually that's what I thought I was doing when I started this thread....asking if anyone might know of another way to play a particular section of the song that I had trouble with.

Already provided. Did you actually watch right through beginning to end how Andy fingers and frets BIB and his later comments on how to execute the stretch I provided for you in a timed hotlink within those hotlinks? That's about as much of a workaround and solid advice for smaller hands as you'll find IMV&E. Re Andy's hands, remember the camera distorts & always makes everything look larger than in real life. Andy does have shortish thicker fingers, but a loads of experience and many decades on that guitar as well as being an exceptionally gifted tutor. Note how he places the LP body when in the sitting position too.

Anyway GL with it regardless. My intention was to assist, not dent buyer pride or offend ego by being misinterpreted as denigrating your guitar per se. In time you may, or not, discover the validity of what I've said previously = true.

snpfarm

Full Access

Joined: 07/16/21

Posts: 58

Originally Posted by: manXcat
Originally Posted by: snpfarm

I have zero issues playing my Epiphone Les Paul Standard. That's why I bought it.

OK. If you say so, but if you think about it, that contradicts your request for a workaround if you "have zero issues playing my Epiphone Les Paul Standard". FWIW I would, and albeit smaller than average or proportional to height, my hands are larger than yours given the information supplied.

Just trying to help offering viable alternatives not stuck in the "one size should fit all" mentality box. What you choose to do with the info is up to you. Horse to water idiom.

Among my inventory I've got a Harley Benton SC Custom (customised Les Paul clone) BTW, but they have a fast "SlimTaper" profiled contemporary neck and although they are a solid mahogany body and still heavy relatively, they aren't quite the log the thicker bodied standard Epis are. Played those chunky necked Epis. Ugh. Not for my hands. There are just alternatives better suited to smaller hands AFAIC.

That said, sincerely glad yours now apparently works for you with "zero issues".

Originally Posted by: snpfarm
I'm well aware of what my limitations are. I try to find work around for songs I have trouble with....actually that's what I thought I was doing when I started this thread....asking if anyone might know of another way to play a particular section of the song that I had trouble with.

Already provided. Did you actually watch right through beginning to end how Andy fingers and frets BIB and his later comments on how to execute the stretch I provided for you in a timed hotlink within those hotlinks? That's about as much of a workaround and solid advice for smaller hands as you'll find IMV&E. Re Andy's hands, remember the camera distorts & always makes everything look larger than in real life. Andy does have shortish thicker fingers, but a loads of experience and many decades on that guitar as well as being an exceptionally gifted tutor. Note how he places the LP body when in the sitting position too.

Anyway GL with it regardless. My intention was to assist, not dent buyer pride or offend ego by being misinterpreted as denigrating your guitar per se. In time you may, or not, discover the validity of what I've said previously = true.

After this, I'm done. I never said that I couldn't play BIB. I started this whole thing by saying that I couldn't play it the way I thought Angus Young does...presuming he has small hands to match his small stature. I thought that he was making a stretch from the 2nd to the 7th fret without ever lifting from the 2nd fret. I asked for a work around to that scenario because I couldn't make that stretch. DraconusJLM and William MJ both replied with some good info saying it doesn't hurt to lift from the 2nd fret and move to the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th. I replied saying "that is how I've been playing it (lifting off the 2nd)". I NEVER said I couldn't play the song. Whether you believe me or not, I can play my Epiphone Les Paul Standard and Takamine Acoustic plenty good enough to satisfy me. If I have trouble I will try to find a way to overcome the issue. If I can't then I'll ask for help. Thank you again for all your words of wisdom. It is greatly appreciated and will be put to use when needed.

This trying to get my left hand and right hand to work together is driving me crazy!

#13

Originally Posted by: manXcat
Originally Posted by: snpfarm

I have zero issues playing my Epiphone Les Paul Standard. That's why I bought it.

OK. If you say so, but if you think about it, that contradicts your request for a workaround if you "have zero issues playing my Epiphone Les Paul Standard". FWIW I would, and albeit smaller than average or proportional to height, my hands are larger than yours given the information supplied.

Just trying to help offering viable alternatives not stuck in the "one size should fit all" mentality box. What you choose to do with the info is up to you. Horse to water idiom.

Among my inventory I've got a Harley Benton SC Custom (customised Les Paul clone) BTW, but they have a fast "SlimTaper" profiled contemporary neck and although they are a solid mahogany body and still heavy relatively, they aren't quite the log the thicker bodied standard Epis are. Played those chunky necked Epis. Ugh. Not for my hands. There are just alternatives better suited to smaller hands AFAIC.

That said, sincerely glad yours now apparently works for you with "zero issues".

Originally Posted by: snpfarm
I'm well aware of what my limitations are. I try to find work around for songs I have trouble with....actually that's what I thought I was doing when I started this thread....asking if anyone might know of another way to play a particular section of the song that I had trouble with.

Already provided. Did you actually watch right through beginning to end how Andy fingers and frets BIB and his later comments on how to execute the stretch I provided for you in a timed hotlink within those hotlinks? That's about as much of a workaround and solid advice for smaller hands as you'll find IMV&E. Re Andy's hands, remember the camera distorts & always makes everything look larger than in real life. Andy does have shortish thicker fingers, but a loads of experience and many decades on that guitar as well as being an exceptionally gifted tutor. Note how he places the LP body when in the sitting position too.

Anyway GL with it regardless. My intention was to assist, not dent buyer pride or offend ego by being misinterpreted as denigrating your guitar per se. In time you may, or not, discover the validity of what I've said previously = true.

After this, I'm done. I never said that I couldn't play BIB. I started this whole thing by saying that I couldn't play it the way I thought Angus Young does...presuming he has small hands to match his small stature. I thought that he was making a stretch from the 2nd to the 7th fret without ever lifting from the 2nd fret. I asked for a work around to that scenario because I couldn't make that stretch. DraconusJLM and William MJ both replied with some good info saying it doesn't hurt to lift from the 2nd fret and move to the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th. I replied saying "that is how I've been playing it (lifting off the 2nd)". I NEVER said I couldn't play the song. Whether you believe me or not, I can play my Epiphone Les Paul Standard and Takamine Acoustic plenty good enough to satisfy me. If I have trouble I will try to find a way to overcome the issue. If I can't then I'll ask for help. Thank you again for all your words of wisdom. It is greatly appreciated and will be put to use when needed.

This trying to get my left hand and right hand to work together is driving me crazy!

DraconusJLM

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Joined: 06/21/21

Posts: 226

I've just been watching a video of a live performance and have playing this song sussed.... You need a Gibson SG, school satchel and schoolboy uniform to play lead. To play rhythm you need a Gretsch White Falcon; attire appears pretty regular.

Anything other than the above and yer jus' doin' it wrong, boy!

I'm considering taking up tennis so am off to buy a banjo

Six strings, but only four fingers. Twelve simi-tones, but only eight notes to an octive. Part of me thinks mathematicians should steer well clear of guitars.....

#14

I've just been watching a video of a live performance and have playing this song sussed.... You need a Gibson SG, school satchel and schoolboy uniform to play lead. To play rhythm you need a Gretsch White Falcon; attire appears pretty regular.

Anything other than the above and yer jus' doin' it wrong, boy!

I'm considering taking up tennis so am off to buy a banjo

Six strings, but only four fingers. Twelve simi-tones, but only eight notes to an octive. Part of me thinks mathematicians should steer well clear of guitars.....

snpfarm

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Joined: 07/16/21

Posts: 58

Originally Posted by: DraconusJLM

And if all else fails, take up mandolin or uke instead (just kidding).

Enjoy what you currently own.....

I couldn't agree more!! And I enjoy mine immensely.

This trying to get my left hand and right hand to work together is driving me crazy!

#15

Originally Posted by: DraconusJLM

And if all else fails, take up mandolin or uke instead (just kidding).

Enjoy what you currently own.....

I couldn't agree more!! And I enjoy mine immensely.

This trying to get my left hand and right hand to work together is driving me crazy!

William MG

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Joined: 03/08/19

Posts: 1253

uploaded image

This is what I have been playing at the office lately. Lovely guitar to play.

"If it sounds cool, it is cool!"

Mike O

Works for me!

#16

uploaded image

This is what I have been playing at the office lately. Lovely guitar to play.

"If it sounds cool, it is cool!"

Mike O

Works for me!

JeffS65

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Joined: 10/07/08

Posts: 1556

Originally Posted by: DraconusJLM

I mostly play a Tele with 25.5 inch scale length, or a Gretsch G5420 with a 24.6 inch scale length. In all honesty, I've never noticed anything easier about playability other than bending the G string on the Gretsch is pretty difficult because I fitted a set with a wound third for tone reasons.

Pictures please :) ..I mean, if you want to. I do like me a Gretsch hollowbody and the Electromatics are really nice guitars.

Originally Posted by: snpfarm

I thought that he was making a stretch from the 2nd to the 7th fret without ever lifting from the 2nd fret. I asked for a work around to that scenario because I couldn't make that stretch.

I've been playing BIB since nearly the time it came out. Almost. BIB preceded my first guitar by about a year and I didn't try learning it until '83. So, it's been noodled on more than a few times.

I never make the stretch. I have average sized hands but that's not really the point of how to play it. In my opinion anyway. Because it has the synchpated rhythmic ascending notes, holding and then releasing the strings helps with the definition between notes.

Funny enough, I've found it easier to play this run on chunkier necks as it seems to, for some reason that's only in my head, force me to only play and release each notes as I ascend. It forces me not to play it sloppily. My Strat has a really nice, quick neck and I just noodled it and it was too easy. I actually fumbled it a bit. Seriously. So I grabbed my Gresch which has a little more neck chunk and it went off smoothly. Though Malcom played Gretsch's so maybe this can only be played correctly on a Gretsch! ;)

#17

Originally Posted by: DraconusJLM

I mostly play a Tele with 25.5 inch scale length, or a Gretsch G5420 with a 24.6 inch scale length. In all honesty, I've never noticed anything easier about playability other than bending the G string on the Gretsch is pretty difficult because I fitted a set with a wound third for tone reasons.

Pictures please :) ..I mean, if you want to. I do like me a Gretsch hollowbody and the Electromatics are really nice guitars.

Originally Posted by: snpfarm

I thought that he was making a stretch from the 2nd to the 7th fret without ever lifting from the 2nd fret. I asked for a work around to that scenario because I couldn't make that stretch.

I've been playing BIB since nearly the time it came out. Almost. BIB preceded my first guitar by about a year and I didn't try learning it until '83. So, it's been noodled on more than a few times.

I never make the stretch. I have average sized hands but that's not really the point of how to play it. In my opinion anyway. Because it has the synchpated rhythmic ascending notes, holding and then releasing the strings helps with the definition between notes.

Funny enough, I've found it easier to play this run on chunkier necks as it seems to, for some reason that's only in my head, force me to only play and release each notes as I ascend. It forces me not to play it sloppily. My Strat has a really nice, quick neck and I just noodled it and it was too easy. I actually fumbled it a bit. Seriously. So I grabbed my Gresch which has a little more neck chunk and it went off smoothly. Though Malcom played Gretsch's so maybe this can only be played correctly on a Gretsch! ;)

snpfarm

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Joined: 07/16/21

Posts: 58

Originally Posted by: JeffS65

I never make the stretch. I have average sized hands but that's not really the point of how to play it. In my opinion anyway. Because it has the synchpated rhythmic ascending notes, holding and then releasing the strings helps with the definition between notes.

Thanks for the info. This realy blew up more than I thought it would. My fault for not making my point a little more clear. My whole intentions were to say that if Malcom or Angus were making that kind of stretch then their hands are way out of portion to their stature. I have to jump back and forth to make it work. Thought it woud be cool if I could lift off the 5th string just enough to seperate the notes and place my fingers in a stretch on the 6th string notes.

This trying to get my left hand and right hand to work together is driving me crazy!

#18

Originally Posted by: JeffS65

I never make the stretch. I have average sized hands but that's not really the point of how to play it. In my opinion anyway. Because it has the synchpated rhythmic ascending notes, holding and then releasing the strings helps with the definition between notes.

Thanks for the info. This realy blew up more than I thought it would. My fault for not making my point a little more clear. My whole intentions were to say that if Malcom or Angus were making that kind of stretch then their hands are way out of portion to their stature. I have to jump back and forth to make it work. Thought it woud be cool if I could lift off the 5th string just enough to seperate the notes and place my fingers in a stretch on the 6th string notes.

This trying to get my left hand and right hand to work together is driving me crazy!

DraconusJLM

Full Access

Joined: 06/21/21

Posts: 226

I can't get a photo of my Gretsch to upload but this is the website; mine has Orange stain:

https://www.gretschguitars.com/gear/build/hollow-body/g5420t-electromatic-hollow-body-single-cut-with-bigsby/2506011512

I would have gone for a 6120 but can't really justify the spend on top of my Strymon addiction :)

Six strings, but only four fingers. Twelve simi-tones, but only eight notes to an octive. Part of me thinks mathematicians should steer well clear of guitars.....

#19

I can't get a photo of my Gretsch to upload but this is the website; mine has Orange stain:

https://www.gretschguitars.com/gear/build/hollow-body/g5420t-electromatic-hollow-body-single-cut-with-bigsby/2506011512

I would have gone for a 6120 but can't really justify the spend on top of my Strymon addiction :)

Six strings, but only four fingers. Twelve simi-tones, but only eight notes to an octive. Part of me thinks mathematicians should steer well clear of guitars.....

Herman10

Registered User

Joined: 12/03/19

Posts: 318

To come back to the PO 's issue, easy work around;

A--2------2------2------2-2

e -----4-------5------6--

same note but little different sound and nobody will really hear the difference.

Live is easy if you want it to be

#20

To come back to the PO 's issue, easy work around;

A--2------2------2------2-2

e -----4-------5------6--

same note but little different sound and nobody will really hear the difference.

Live is easy if you want it to be