Originally Posted by: elklanderccI've seen many videos of Zakk Wylde playing unplugged or with an acoustic and he plays pretty cleanly, why people think he's overrated while Billy Joe Armstrong (or whoever) prounces around like he's God is beyond me.

Also, Alexi Lahio was saying in an interview that a lot of guitarists these days are super fast but can be super lame. I agree, I don't listen to a whole lot of Petrucci because he plays fast through lots of his songs and it sounds like one long solo and I just get turned off and change cd's. I do like his newest cd though.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by: PlatonicShredI've seen his acoustic live sets, and I have to disagree. When he gets really fast his alternate picking breaks down and it mixes between legato. Not only that, but the licks he plays at those speeds almost sound like they are just 'stock fast licks.' Some of the notes and whatnot don't really go with the underlying progression, maybe that's due to his heavy EVH influence.

Listen to the solo on Stillborn to hear what I'm talking about.

Not to say that Zakk Wylde can't play, but I wouldn't call him a virtuoso.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by: elklanderccWere talking fast in general, not fast picking hand so mixing between legato and alt. picking is irrelevant when talking about speed. I agree about the "stock fast licks" because a lot of his acoustic is fast scales. I do disagree about him not being a virtuoso though. He might play alot of stuff drop tuned and low on the neck, but listen to him play Sabbath songs during an Ozzy tour, the only person who could play them better than that would be Rhoads (R.I.P.) himself.

Who do you consider virtuosos?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PlatonicShred]Firstly, I didn't say you were a virtuoso if you could play at 180bpm+, I said you were knocking on virtuosity's door. Virtuosity is not the same as being a full-blown virtuoso.

If you want to take the real definition of virtuoso, there are very few guitar virtuosos---and even Yngwie wouldn't be one, because he cannot read music. A virtuoso is someone with NO musical weakness whatsoever on their chosen instrument.

Virtuosity is having some of the characteristics of a virtuoso--in this case having somewhat the speed of a virtuoso.


Second, with regard to Zakk Wylde--actually if you are talking about real speed, it is important that Zakk Wylde be consistent in his playing. As I said before, he cannot sustain the high speeds without resorting to legato to give the appearance of keeping the same tempo.

In that solo, he starts off pretty fast but then can't keep the steady stream going and so he stops alternate picking---the result is that the line still sounds like it is flowing at the same tempo when in fact his playing becomes MUCH slower overall.

Ask any professional guitar player about how hard it is to alternate pick at 180 versus how hard it is to legato at 180 and they will tell you that the former is harder because it requires both hands to be coordinated.


As to who I regard as virtuosos, there are not many. Going to Berklee you're exposed to a lot of brilliant musical minds on every instrument, and you start to see that it's not just speed or technique--even though its a huge part--that determines this quality. I think John Petrucci is a virtuoso, an all-round talent that has no real weakness. Al Di Meola is in the same vein, even though he refuses to use more practical techniques for some things.

[QUOTE=elklandercc]A virtuoso is "Someone with an outstanding technical ability at singing or playing an instrument." If you think Al Di Meola or Petrucci have no music weakness, you are very worng. I'm sure if you were to ask them in aninterview I have no doubts they would throw a list at you. Don't get me wrong, they are 2 of the best guitarists that will ever live, as well as Satch and Vai. But you have to admit that Zakk fits under that category. A lot of guitarists use Satch, Vai, Di Meola, or Petrucci to rate other guitarists and I think that wrong.

And with the speed thing, again, its speed in general, not strickly picking hand. Sure, everyone knows legato is much easier that alt picking which is why a lot of shredders use it. Listen to some Racer X and hear Gilbert's blazing fast alt. picking and legato. A classic example is Superhero's (Jolly, your the man), in the 2nd he goes from alt. picking to sweep to legato at blazing fast speeds and keeps up his pace. Just because some parts of the solo would be eaier to play than the other (to him, not us hahaha) doesn't mean its not fast playing.

[QUOTE=PlatonicShred]They don't have any real weakness as compared to the average player. Just listen to them play. Sure they'll say 'I have a harder time with X and Y' but that doesn't mean they do X weakly, as a matter of fact, most of the time they excel at whatever X is.

And again, if you want to go on PURE speed i.e. legato and alt picking whatever--Wylde still does not make the cut. A legato run from Paul Gilbert versus one from Zakk Wylde is a lot faster. The reason why I discounted Zakk Wylde is that he uses legato to keep the flow going, which gives his lines the appearance all being played at an even tempo with the same note durations when they are not. That's all.

And aschleman, no one is forcing you to read or post to this particular thread, why insult it?