Flamenco/Blues (questions for both)

Jimmy Thackery..never heard of him, have to check him out.

So 14, and from texas...I would never of guessed that Mr. Flamenco. How old am I!?!? Lets just say I've been playing guitar for about 10yrs. longer then you've been in existence.

So how does a 14 yr. old kid from Texas get into Flamenco?

Do you study Flamenco from anybody or are you teaching yourself?

That's pretty cool, it's pretty deep music.

Eh, no not really. I got into flamenco because me dad has been a big blues fan. He's been played guitar for about 20 years. He told me that ( no offence to any blues fans ) blues is pretty easy compared to other guitar music. He decided to move on to a more complex art like flamenco. We both play togther and teach eachother new stuff. But yeah . . . im a Texan who playes Spanish music. I also loves blues aswell and play it when ever I have to NEED TO ROCK OUT. I also like metal and classical, but i flamenco is still my favorite.

What kind of music do you like chris mood?

I'm a musical junkie, I like anything that's done well. Blues, Rock, Jazz, Flamenco, Country, Classical...there's something to be learned from it all. I have pretty high standards as far as players are concerned, I like to listen to the best of the best. Some of my favorites are; Paco de Lucia, Jimmy Bruno (Jazz) Larry carlton (jazz/rock) Robben Ford (jazz/blues/rock) Scott Henderson (jazz/blues/rock) etc..just to name a few.

If you ever get a chance take a Flamenco lesson from a true flamenco player (someone born & raised in spain who knows the music inside and out), it really is enlightening...there's a lot of technical things about the song forms and accents that are hard to figure out on your own.

What guitar(s) do you have?

I have a Stratocaster ( well . . . my dad's )
And a pure flamenco guitar made by a prestegous luthier named Francsico Navarro.

Yeah, I've never been really into guitars, more what you can do with them. I stopped shelling out thousands of dollars for guitars about 10yrs. ago when I had a Gibson 335 custom shop guitar crack on me from taking it in and out of the cold. Now I just have a couple of "workhorse" guitars that get the job done and can be easily replaced if something happens to them.

So lets talk Flamenco, it's not often I get to talk to someone on this forum about Flamenco. So have you learned any of the song forms yet (Solea, Bulerias, Seville, Tangos, Tarantas, Alegria)?

Have you checked out any of the old timers yet, like Carlos Montoya, Sabicas, Nino Ricardo? I think Sabicas may be a little faster and cleaner then Paco de lucia.

Yeah I know a couple of songs. My favoritre is a small Fandangos piece. My favorite type of style is Bulerias though I cannot find a good piece to learn. Yeah I know some old - timers like Carlos Montoya. Carlos is very original, I like is style alot. Also have you heard some of the Gypsy Kings stuff, its pretty good. Usually I like more old fashion flamenco but there is something about the Gypsy Kings that gives them this kind of flare.

Do you know any pieces? Whats you favorite type?

So far I've done Solea (a lot), tangos, zapeteado, and seville. I like Bulerias a lot, that's probably like the Be-Bop of Flamenco, very challenging. Sevilles' a lot of fun, it's kinda of up-beat and festive, it's basically flamenco dance music. The count is in 6. It's usually just 2 chords (lets say E7 and A), the E7 would be played on counts 1 & 2, the A on counts 3,4,5,& 6...w/a rasguedo on the up-beat of 4. So it would be (E7) 1 + 2 + (A) 3 + 4 E&A 5 + 6 +.

It's kinda good to get really good at Solea 1st, since thats the basic rhythm for other song forms like Bulerias, Seguiriyas, Fandango, and Alegrias.

Which Juan martin book do you have? Is it the one published by Mel-bay that comes with a cd & dvd?

Yeah I have the Mel-Bay DVD - CD thingy. So you do solea eh? I know that there is a 12 count. I'am having trouble establishing the beat. Have any tips? To play Bulerias your rasqueado has to be almost perfect and playing that is my current project.

Yeah, understanding the rhythm of Flamenco (compas) is probably the hardest part.

The 12 count is like counting out 1/4 notes. The closest thing to relating the 12 count to western music would be to divide the 12 count into 4 measures of 3. So your typical Solea would look:

|| F (1 2 3)| C ( 1 2 3)| F (1 2 3)| E7 (1 2 3)||

And that would be your typical solea song form.
In westen music the accent (or down beat) is always on 1, this is the main difference w/Flamenco, in the solea the accents are on 3 6 8 10 & 12. So if I took the above chord progression and put an asterisk next to the aceented beat it would look like this:

||F ( 1 2 3*)| C ( 1 2 3*)| F ( 1 2* 3)| E7 (1* 2 3*)||

So as you see this doesn't translate well into traditional western methods of dividing music into bar lines and such...so instead they hear everything as 1 12 bar phrase. So in Flamenco you would count:

||F ( 1 2 3*) C ( 4 5 6*) F ( 7 8* 9) E7 ( 10* 11 12*)||

Accented beats would typically be approached with a single down stroke. Unaccented beats ( 1 2 4 5 7 9 11) would recieve a rasguedo.

Originally posted by chris mood
Yeah, understanding the rhythm of Flamenco (compas) is probably the hardest part.

The 12 count is like counting out 1/4 notes. The closest thing to relating the 12 count to western music would be to divide the 12 count into 4 measures of 3. So your typical Solea would look:

|| F (1 2 3)| C ( 1 2 3)| F (1 2 3)| E7 (1 2 3)||

And that would be your typical solea song form.
In westen music the accent (or down beat) is always on 1, this is the main difference w/Flamenco, in the solea the accents are on 3 6 8 10 & 12. So if I took the above chord progression and put an asterisk next to the aceented beat it would look like this:

||F ( 1 2 3*)| C ( 1 2 3*)| F ( 1 2* 3)| E7 (1* 2 3*)||

So as you see this doesn't translate well into traditional western methods of dividing music into bar lines and such...so instead they hear everything as 1 12 bar phrase. So in Flamenco you would count:

||F ( 1 2 3*) C ( 4 5 6*) F ( 7 8* 9) E7 ( 10* 11 12*)||

Accented beats would typically be approached with a single down stroke. Unaccented beats ( 1 2 4 5 7 9 11) would recieve a rasguedo.

Oh I get it. ( its much more easier to understand with pictures or diaghrams) thankyou very much.

Bulerias is the same count as Solea, only played twice as fast. Since it takes a lot of concentration to count to 12 that fast, most people will just count the accented beats in 5. So it would be like this:

(pause) 1 (pause) 2 (pause) 3 4 5

Solea:
1 2 3* 4 5 6* 7 8* 9 10* 11 12*
___1____2____3___4_____5
Bulerias

Hey chris mood, check out this flamenco scale I just tabbed out

Looks good.

Thanks. Try it out, when you are accending toward to 12 fret, then it sounds really cool.

I don't know if you've ever been here, but this is a good site w/a lot of Flamenco licks (falsettas) tabbed out. Enjoy!

www.ctv.es/USERS/norman

Ohhhhhhhh man!!!! I have been searching all over the net for a site like this. Gracias!

Yeah, that's about the best one I've ever found.

You know what really good about flamenco? That you have very little competion. I mean like alomost every one who picks up a guitar wants to be another Hendrix ( thats a good, dont get me wrong). So when ever I am with a group of my guitar buddies, they all play rock, blues, metal, ect. Then when I bring out my nylon strings and start playing, no one can crtiticise of anything because not many people play flamenco( or at least at my age ). Automaticly, it impresses people.

It came across my mind so I decided to post it . . . LOL

As long as you stay out of Spain I don't think your going to have too much competition. Your right, it is nice.

Hey chris mood, have you heard Hotel California unplugged. If you have I bet you like the solo.