Newbie from JustinGuitar Beginner level 1 Complete


mskorude
Registered User
Joined: 08/18/21
Posts: 5

Hi Folks!

I am a newbie just moving over after spending more months than I care to share finishing Justin Guitar Beginner Grade 1.

One issue I am running into is the alternative cord finger placelements in Fundimentals 1. I spent so much time doing cord changes and perfect cord practice to get those correct and now this is showing different ways to do it. Bottom line this is causing my pea brain to hit tilt! :)

So, question. Does it matter? Can I keep doing cords they way I know them? I would for sure prefer to go with what I know.

Lastly, any other JustinGuitar converts? Any good guidance in making the change to G-Tricks?

Thanks!

Mike


# 1
manXcat
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Joined: 02/17/18
Posts: 1,358

G'day & welcome to GT.[br][br] I've used both GT & JG in concert with one another. After researching and trying most including JG, I went with GT. I've been here for 3½ yeas now. [br][br]Justin has only quite recently reorganised his website into structured modules as such, i.e. Beginners Grade 1. They're mostly his older You Tube lessons now better structured collated into stages than the motley assortment as was. JG is OK. His material is good, importantly, now improving as a structured syllabus. Everyone has a preferred learning style, but if you had to choose just one, GT is the still the pick in 2021 IMV.

I use several. i.e. I did buy, use and complete JG's subscription model Music Theory for Guitar course a couple of years ago and found it very useful.

Re GT. Check out the syllabus and see where you are up to equivalent to JG Grade 1 and get stuck in from there. Stick with the chords as you've been taught at JG, i.e. open A, if you find adaptation a challenge. Later you'll use several forms and fingerings of the same (open) chords anyway. GL & have fun.


# 2
mskorude
Registered User
Joined: 08/18/21
Posts: 5

Thanks manXcat! I appreciate your thoughts on this.

I am going to keep moving forward and take on that B and F cord then on to Level 2!

Thanks!


# 3
ddiddler
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Joined: 05/13/20
Posts: 291

JG main difference is with the A chord as he used AED to move quickly on to popular songs.

GF1 and 2 use their own songs to put in to practice whatever was in the lesson. [br]A list of easy songs are given as you progress through the foundations but these are alongside lessons not part of them.

JG sometimes uses differing descriptions for terms used in GT

His scale patterns come in a different order.

No differences that would cause issues just the fact that 2 programmes go about things in different ways. [br]Suppose it's down to us to pick and choose if we've decided to try and mix .

Would be the same if went with 2 tutors at the same time. Some things would be the same , some things slightly different but things introduced at varying times from each tutor.

hopefully the end results being the same. [br]loads more content in GT than JG on the dashboard away from the lessons format

Just use search . Brain cell overload is easily attainable.

Dave


# 4
mskorude
Registered User
Joined: 08/18/21
Posts: 5

Thanks ddiddler!

I do tend to overthink..... Everything!

I was really enjoying JG and then threy changed the begininer song app and I just could not get into playing with it.

This is a really good platform for sure!

Looking forward to the path ahead.

Thanks,

Mike


# 5
mskorude
Registered User
Joined: 08/18/21
Posts: 5

Hey ddiddler and manXCat,

Quick follow up.

In the 5 cord essential lessons she shows all these alternative fingering styles for the cords. This has but my brain into a not.

How'd you all take that on? Learn them or stick with the JG version?

Thanks!

Mike

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

JG main difference is with the A chord as he used AED to move quickly on to popular songs.

GF1 and 2 use their own songs to put in to practice whatever was in the lesson. [br]A list of easy songs are given as you progress through the foundations but these are alongside lessons not part of them.

JG sometimes uses differing descriptions for terms used in GT

His scale patterns come in a different order.

No differences that would cause issues just the fact that 2 programmes go about things in different ways. [br]Suppose it's down to us to pick and choose if we've decided to try and mix .

Would be the same if went with 2 tutors at the same time. Some things would be the same , some things slightly different but things introduced at varying times from each tutor.

hopefully the end results being the same. [br]loads more content in GT than JG on the dashboard away from the lessons format

Just use search . Brain cell overload is easily attainable.

Dave


# 6
mskorude
Registered User
Joined: 08/18/21
Posts: 5

Hey ddiddler and manXCat,

Quick follow up.

In the 5 cord essential lessons she shows all these alternative fingering styles for the cords. This has but my brain into a not.

How'd you all take that on? Learn them or stick with the JG version?

Thanks!

Mike

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

JG main difference is with the A chord as he used AED to move quickly on to popular songs.

GF1 and 2 use their own songs to put in to practice whatever was in the lesson. [br]A list of easy songs are given as you progress through the foundations but these are alongside lessons not part of them.

JG sometimes uses differing descriptions for terms used in GT

His scale patterns come in a different order.

No differences that would cause issues just the fact that 2 programmes go about things in different ways. [br]Suppose it's down to us to pick and choose if we've decided to try and mix .

Would be the same if went with 2 tutors at the same time. Some things would be the same , some things slightly different but things introduced at varying times from each tutor.

hopefully the end results being the same. [br]loads more content in GT than JG on the dashboard away from the lessons format

Just use search . Brain cell overload is easily attainable.

Dave


# 7
manXcat
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Joined: 02/17/18
Posts: 1,358

My advice would be to stick with JG's fingering teaching of those chords you've already learnt at this time unless you want to use the alternative conventional fingering for A (see my links in paragraph 4 below).[br][br]IMV JG's is superior (logical) as applied to EAD-DAE changes, although I use pretty much all the open fingerings of A there are situationally dependent, and you will too in time.

[br]Something I personally don't agree with/condone is the hand holding soft 'Kindy' teaching style intro to the 'simple' C, G, Am & E as taught by Lisa here in Fundamentals 1 initial lessons. Some night need or even like that kind of babying. To me it's as absurd as it is obtuse/confusing as is oft seen in the questions asked here on GT by noobs, but more saliently, completely unnecessary for such super easy to finger Open chords as C, G, Am & E in any case -reiterating, MPO.

[br]Many are unaware of the existence of and extant availability of access on Guitar Tricks to the previous iteration of GT Fundamentals 1 as taught by Christopher Schlegel. I preferred (& prefer) his teaching methodology and lessons. Here are the lessons on AED from Christopher starting with A before progressing logically through C,F,G.His full (alternative) Fundamentals 1 course can be found commencing here.

The choice of whose teaching methodology/protocol to pursue is of course yours.

[br]GL & most of all enjoy yourself.

P.S. I just belatedly realised Christopher follows a simple chord approach too earlier in his Fundamentals 1 program. I must've missed that when I switched to it having transitioned after I'd passed that point. Although over 40 years ago I'd learnt/been taught the conventional method for fingering open A, when I came back to guitar in late 2017 I started EAD with JG's fingering & chord transition method for those three chords and found it so easy peasy, nothing simpler or easier was required. Hence my perspective. In any case I reiterate I just don't see any need for it [u]even as a rank beginner[/u] for such easy to play chords as A, Am, E, Em, C & G. F is the possible[u] difficulty[/u] exception where encouragement and an initial easier alternative might be necessary until forefinger strength, flexibility and stretch is achieved to effect a satisfactory level of competency in fingering either the first fret partial (E&B strings) or full bar.


# 8
stacykhuffman
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Joined: 06/06/21
Posts: 8

Hi Manxcat. I can see what you're saying re Lisa's teaching style but also think it has certain strengths. As someone who never touched a guitar before I was kind of..and still am kind of ...shocked at how much is going on with it. Her baby steps helped me to not feel overwhelmed. I'm also lefty learning right so things can feel pretty unnatural sometimes.

Thanks for posting links to Chris' stuff.


# 9
ChristopherSchlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor
Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 7,796
Originally Posted by: manXcat[br]Many are unaware of the existence of and extant availability of access on Guitar Tricks to the previous iteration of GT Fundamentals 1 as taught by Christopher Schlegel.[/quote]

Thanks for the mention & the links! FWIW, I think it's good that GT provides the option for students to follow mine or Lisa's curriculum.

[quote=manXcat]P.S. I just belatedly realised Christopher follows a simple chord approach too earlier in his Fundamentals 1 program.

Yes, that's just a standard part of traditional guitar pedagogy. It can be a helpful small first step for beginners that are struggling.

Another reason I think it's helpful is that it matches basic music theory (& piano) pedagogy: a chord only requires 3 notes. If you skip that knowledge, which some guitar programs do, you wind up thinking that the only way to make any given chord is the static open shapes.

So, it helps physical technique by only requiring one finger & minimal strumming. And it helps conceptually to set the precedence that a chord requires a minimum of 3 notes & there is a variety of ways to play any given chord.

Hope that helps!


Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory
# 10
manXcat
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Joined: 02/17/18
Posts: 1,358
Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegelThanks for the mention & the links! FWIW, I think it's good that GT provides the option for students to follow mine or Lisa's curriculum.[/quote]

Me too!

Originally Posted by: manXcatP.S. I just belatedly realised Christopher follows a simple chord approach too earlier in his Fundamentals 1 program.[/quote]

Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegelYes, that's just a standard part of traditional guitar pedagogy. It can be a helpful small first step for beginners that are struggling.

[br]Noted. I'd have thought it remedial methodology, -ref: paraphrased, 'struggling beginners' rather than "traditional".

[quote=ChristopherSchlegel]Another reason I think it's helpful is that it matches basic music theory (& piano) pedagogy: a chord only requires 3 notes. If you skip that knowledge, which some guitar programs do, you wind up thinking that the only way to make any given chord is the static open shapes.

The flaw in this rational [u]as I perceive it[/u] is the 'whoosh'! factor. At that phase of the introduction to initial chords, with [u]everything[/u] being new and the average student in a physically challenged and information overload state guaranteeing load-sheding, said 'average' beginner isn't going to pick up on that, or if s/he does, relate meaningfully to its significance. The slower remedial almost certainly won't. [br][br]Certainly KISS, but not so much as to boor, obfuscate or confuse with information not relevant to the immediate objective. Inarguably that info is necessary, and [u]saliently[/u] useful later, and should be introduced when the student can relate to it and its importance then, not during the guitar equivalent of a baby discovering their fingers and toes for the first time. Hey that's just my perception and view. If I might use an experience orientated analogy? [br][br]I saw the same thing instructing ab-initio studs in aviation all the time over the years I was doign that. Although you spend almost as much time on the ground doing a pre-flight lesson briefing explaining the theory and outlining the objectives prior to the flight, once airborne in the dynamic environment, the student is so in awe of just being in the air by everything going on around them, time and performance pressure (rate) constraints ensure load shedding and brain fade obscures all efficiacy but demonstrate, immitate, practice. "Oh is it time to land already?". Nevertheless, although taught in lesson steps or building blocks, effects of controls, straight and level, climbing and descending, turning, etc other than the TIF when the student is so swamped by excitement they're absorbing next to nothing (think holding a guitar in the music store for the first time with the sales assistant 'speaking in tongues') it's important correct technique is taught from the outset and that focused upon so the understanding of the basic concepts and actions required to affect them is absorbed. Correction and the self-correlation of why can and does occur later with exposure and time as the student develops.

[quote=ChristopherSchlegel]So, it helps physical technique by only requiring one finger & minimal strumming. And it helps conceptually to set the precedence that a chord requires a minimum of 3 notes & there is a variety of ways to play any given chord.

[br]Although the theory of the above sounds good hypothetically, in pragmatic terms [u]IMV[/u], I don't think it what you're referring to really resonates let alone sinks in [u]at that stage[/u] when all a newbie student really wants to do is play a few open chords as quickly as possible so they can put together a three chord song using traditionally fingered and sounding -vs easy or simple, resembling something song wise with which they are familiar.

Anyway, I didn't enjoy easy and it didn't help me in any way,. More's the point, initially I was confused by it in a "What the!" sense. Once I realised what was going on and categorised it pointless + infantile as applicable to me (hey, my view, if someone else enjoys that brain brake methodolgy so be it) I bypassed it as extraneous & obstructive. Without apology for my view, noting neither group hugs style diplomacy nor superficiality are strong suites of mine. Just calling it as I experienced and perceive it.

Why this view? Undoubtedly past experience in a (non-guitar) tough 'take no prisoners' style learning and instructing environments where high demonstrated progress performance rates and standards were the expected norm transferring in application to guitar abetted possibly because I was a returning guitar student who'd done a couple of years learning and playing acoustic and electric guitar in my late adolescence albeit with a 40+ year complete hiatus since - vs multiple half-hearted attempts and fails during that time.

No doubt also due to the nature of how I learn, the simple chords approach was something I [u]personally[/u] found superfluous as in pointlessly obuscational rather than in any way useful. That said, I do appreciate others might not. I comprehend your explanation of why it's included in the GT syllabus as it is. I also get totally that it's not [u]about me[/u] but a public of whom Fender's survey stats revealing 90% of new guitar buying beginners give up trying to learn guitar within the first 12 months.

Cheers mate.[br][br]


# 11
manXcat
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Joined: 02/17/18
Posts: 1,358
Originally Posted by: stacykhuffmanThanks for posting links to Chris' stuff.[/quote]

You're welcome. Pleased they were of use to you.

[quote=stacykhuffman]I can see what you're saying re Lisa's teaching style but also think it has certain strengths. As someone who never touched a guitar before I was kind of..and still am kind of ...shocked at how much is going on with it. Her baby steps helped me to not feel overwhelmed. I'm also lefty learning right so things can feel pretty unnatural sometimes.

We're all different. Point made. It worked (to benefit) for you. For me, no harm no foul. And yes, the so much going on is perpetual which for me is an aspect of what makes the challenge of understanding, learning and polishing aspects of playing this instrument so much fun. Glad for you that you're enjoying the journey too.


# 12
ChristopherSchlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor
Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 7,796
Originally Posted by: manXcatNoted. I'd have thought it remedial methodology, -ref: paraphrased, 'struggling beginners' rather than "traditional".[/quote]

Good observation! Let me back up a step. :)[br][br]It was & continues to be a fascinating challenge to build a curriculum for any & every distance learner: a learning path for someone that is not taking an in-person lesson with me. I try to strike the right balance between including everything, anyone at any skill level might need to know & being as concise & to the point as possible.

For example, when I'm teaching in-person I can adjust the curriculum on the fly. If someone is struggling with simple chords, then I can spend more time with it. I can even add a whole layer of more simple chords & then work at that level until they are physically capable of doing so-called full chords.

Conversely, if an in-person student has no trouble with simple chords & can work with open full chords faster or right away, then I don't spend any more time than necessary on it in order to instead give them gradually more advanced material.

At one point when I was building GF1 I even considered a chapter on all 7 musical alphabet letter simple chords! But I realized that was too much. So I just included the ones that start with a variety of one finger, then add a finger, then add switching strings for added complexity to build dexerity. So, I tried to include that basic step, but concisely & in a way that added value without being too overburdened.

One potential model I had to work from was the classic, traditional series of Mel Bay & Hal Leonard guitar method books! And those also include some basic, simple triad chords as an intermediate step to full chords. The obvious parallel here is that a book has to written as a distance curriculum! It has to assume a wide variety of potential student skill levels.

[br]

Originally Posted by: manXcatI saw the same thing instructing ab-initio studs in aviation all the time over the years I was doign that.[/quote][p]Interesting parallels! Thanks for the insight.

[br]

Originally Posted by: manXcatAlthough the theory of the above sounds good hypothetically, in pragmatic terms [u]IMV[/u], I don't think it what you're referring to really resonates let alone sinks in [u]at that stage[/u] when all a newbie student really wants to do is play a few open chords as quickly as possible so they can put together a three chord song using traditionally fingered and sounding -vs easy or simple, resembling something song wise with which they are familiar.[/quote][p]Sure, but the seed is planted & I can refer to it later as necessary.

[quote=manXcat]Once I realised what was going on and categorised it pointless + infantile as applicable to me...

Sure, the online instruction model works best with a self-starter that can self-criticize & self-assess effectively.

[quote=manXcat][br]Without apology for my view, noting neither group hugs style diplomacy nor superficiality are strong suites of mine. Just calling it as I experienced and perceive it.

Haha! Roger that. :)

[quote=manXcat]I comprehend your explanation of why it's included in the GT syllabus as it is. I also get totally that it's not [u]about me[/u] but a public of whom Fender's survey stats revealing 90% of new guitar buying beginners give up trying to learn guitar within the first 12 months.

That's right on the money. Cheers back at you!


Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory
# 13
JeffS65
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Joined: 10/07/08
Posts: 1,588
Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegel[br]It was & continues to be a fascinating challenge to build a curriculum for any & every distance learner: a learning path for someone that is not taking an in-person lesson with me. I try to strike the right balance between including everything, anyone at any skill level might need to know & being as concise & to the point as possible.

Interesting discussion.

My job is a Program Manager has to do with customer experience and also turning complex information in to simplified and orderly (bite sized) elements. It also has to work for a lot of people (ie - millions). Striking that balance is quite a task and is not truly feasible to meet every person's level of understanding. It takes getting in to someone else's head to do so. For my world of work focus (currently, I do privacy and regulatory stuff), I can't look at how I communicte as a sort of 'what do I want to say to the customer' (or internal users) but; what questions is the customer or internal user needing answered? This comes from experience and historical insight.

To your point Chris, you can't really know what each new player is going to ask. However, with years of teaching, you do know the commonalities with regard to issues players can run in to. Additionally, how much information they can consume.

Like with the chord theory, it's the type of information that will net benefits later if a player knows that now. In the few lessons I've given my wife (she hasn't had a chance to get too deep), I've mentioned that some info I've given her is useful later on but know that some things I've shown her have some level of theory/methodology that will be clear later.

A good example is the shape difference in the open E minor and the A minor. Like, the E Major and A minor have the same shape. At first, it was confusing why the same shape on another set of strings made something fo from a major to a minor. I quickly explained a little something about string intervals in a very simple way so that she could see it as more of a math/counting solution than a 'shape' concept. She didn't need a deep understanding of the concept, just a quick answer as to why. Later on, when she's progressed and started learning more in depth stuff, she can call back to that initial understanding.

Something like that.

Anyway, a tiny bit of knowledge goes a long way.


# 14
ChristopherSchlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor
Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 7,796
Originally Posted by: JeffS65For my world of work focus (currently, I do privacy and regulatory stuff), I can't look at how I communicte as a sort of 'what do I want to say to the customer' (or internal users) but; what questions is the customer or internal user needing answered? This comes from experience and historical insight.[/quote]

Exactly.

Originally Posted by: JeffS65To your point Chris, you can't really know what each new player is going to ask. However, with years of teaching, you do know the commonalities with regard to issues players can run in to. Additionally, how much information they can consume.[/quote]

Exactly. Well said.

[quote=JeffS65]I quickly explained a little something about string intervals in a very simple way so that she could see it as more of a math/counting solution than a 'shape' concept. She didn't need a deep understanding of the concept, just a quick answer as to why. Later on, when she's progressed and started learning more in depth stuff, she can call back to that initial understanding.

Well done! Thanks for that anecdote.

[quote=JeffS65]

Anyway, a tiny bit of knowledge goes a long way.

Absolutely. A good curriculum uses that perspective & builds on it in an integrated manner. So, when you get to more complex levels it's still relates to, refers to & dovetails with earlier concepts. It points back to earlier concepts while expanding their scope with new layers of detail, refinement & complexity.


Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory
# 15
devy99
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Joined: 02/03/18
Posts: 6

I started two years and a half ago with JG. Yes I also learned the a major chord as taught by JG and it does make doing the A D E progressions easier. I have been with GT for just over a year ago and I must say that I have vastly improved since then. I have also learned alternate fingers for chords including the A, F, e minor and G chords from GT and realize their various applications. Same as when to use barre chords and open chords and how to make chord changes between them. It did/does require continued practicing chord changes exercises with each alternative fingering but its coming along.. I enjoy my journey .. oh and by the way I just turned 65.. so you can make an old dog do new tricks...;)


# 16
Tinpan
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Joined: 03/31/20
Posts: 365

I'm finding the discsussion about teaching harder than the lessons.


# 17
afpierson
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Joined: 02/19/22
Posts: 10

I can attest to this. I have been just a campfire strummer for years now and I chose Guitartricks because of the access to instructors that have incredible credentials (e.g. Anders being a studio guitarist for Pink and Taylor Swift), just to name a few. Anyway, having access to instructors of this calibre makes this course incredibly good. In just two weeks, I am no longer just a campfire ADE, CDG, chord kind of guitarist. I am now playing melodies with chords and it sounds incredible. I started with Anders from the beginning in a methodical way and have played every single day (sometimes way too much because I could not put the guitar down). Anders teaches with acoustic mostly in the beginning and I enjoy learning that way so I can be that much better on electric. It's so important to learn root chord notes, melodies, scales, power chords, etc. and Anders course is incredible. Lisa is also great,and I plan to also start hers so I can get my money's worth.


# 18