Originally Posted by: JOHN JAUNESEWhen I say the Harmonic minor only has one mode, what I am saying is, there is only one "USEFUL" mode.[/quote]
OK, so you agree it has modes, but you do not find it useful to think of them as modes, but instead one scale with different patterns/positions. Is that accurate?

Originally Posted by: JOHN JAUNESE
Can you honestly tell your students that you write songs in the Super Locrian Diminished mode and say with a strait face that your tonality is centered around that mode?

As a student in jazz & classical I was expected to know, be able to play, use & compose with all of them. As an instructor I only teach that sort of advanced thing to people with an appropriately advanced interest.

Phrygian dominant (the fifth mode of harmonic minor) is in particular widely used in popular music. Everything from Malmsteen to Metallica to Mario Bros background music. And of course a lot of classical & romantic music.

I frequently use the modes of harmonic minor & melodic minor as a way of outlining or soloing over ii-V-i changes in jazz standards. Of course, it doesn't really matter how many people use them or not. My main point is that they exist, we can identify them.
[QUOTE=JOHN JAUNESE]I mean technically any one of the modes could be incorporated, but it is the tonality that I am referring to as true tonal center is concerned.

Sure, modal and tonal are two different things. Modal playing doesn't necessarily have to contain a candence, a leading tone with a tonal resolution. Tonal playing does. Harmonic minor & melodic minor exist as a means of altering the natural minor scale in order to achieve tonality from the natural minor scale.

But the major scale is the primary source of tonal playing. Harmonic & melodic minor are derived from the relative minor. And as mentioned before, one can always alter any given mode to contain a leading tone if desired.

It seems the primary disagreement here is that you started by claiming harmonic minor does not have modes. It is true you don't have to refer to them, you can just play the scale & say, "I'm just playing one scale, but sequencing it differently by starting on each note in turn."

But in essence, that is precisely what a mode is.

Now it seems you agree harmonic minor does have modes, but you do not find them useful. Is that accurate? :)