Music: Death of Soul

hmm i actually dont have any problem with oasis, but when talking about people like travis:
i think that there should be some line that will seperate between pro musicians, and those who take music as hobby only, i mean i think that people should be able to play in certain level to be pro's. you know i've got guitar players in my area in my age (17-18) who can play like ten times better than travis, and all the bands of this kind, so i just can't understand how all those bands become popular when there are thousands of players around the world, even teen aged who can play 10 times better, and i'm not talking about all those sherd masters, i'm talking about people who play music that is quite similar to travis, and all the bands of this type, but doing this 10 times better than the pro's on the tv do. this problem exsisted in the 70 and the 60 as well, and i never could understand why do people like those bands, when they (the people ) can play much better...

sometimes it's not that the song is hard to play, but that nobody else could have written it.

Exactly, and who cares how good someone is at playing the guitar, if they have no originality, and cannot write songs. Heaps of the best rock acts aren't particularly great at their instruments, but they are original, and write great songs, and work well as a band. For rock and pop, that is so much more important than chops, as long as you are reasonably good. It's different if you want to play jazz or classical or metal of course...

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
sometimes it's not that the song is hard to play, but that nobody else could have written it.

well the problem is that people can write those songs, and it's not like he's doing some interesing harmonies, or he's got good voice, he (travis or whatever the guy's name is)
just plays some simple chord progression and sings.... why do you people think that no one else can do it???
and maybe for pop you dont need any technique, but in rock you probably should be better than travis to do something original
with all the respect to this guy, i can't even consider him as a guitar player, probably he's worse player than 90% of the people on this forum, so i just cant understan how can it be that he is pro, while thousands of people who play and write better than him, can get a contract with a record company..

i know that my posts turns to really mad and angry ones, but that's only because i'm really upset that now when most of the people talk about rock they talk about rem and travis
because whatever they are rock they are not

I have never heard Travis, so I can't say anything to (his/there?) music specifically. But the fact is you can do simple things very creatively. Look at Jim's Big Ego, their song She's Dead is two chords, it's entirely B and E, yet NOBODY can deny that it's a very creative tune. Anybody can play it, most people can sing it, but ONLY Jim Infintino could have written it.

Simple does not equal uncreative, nor does it equal soul. Everything should be judged in it's individual context.

1. Music isnt just about guitars, just because it band isnt a great guitar band doesnt mean theyre not good

2. Fran Healy(Travises singer) isnt the lead guitar player

I gotta go with Rask and Bardsley on this one - if the song is good, the technique is a side-issue.

soul in music will never die. Its found through the ears of that whos listening.

A point I keep making, that doesn't seem to register, is the simple fact that as musicians [u]we hear things differently from most people![/u]

As I've often said "The Biz is based on the fact that most of the people who buy their product will give a track 9 out of 10 if its got a good beat and its easy to dance to."

Don't get hung up on the dreck that The Biz tries to shovel into your ears. The commercial side of the industry will never represent 'state of the Art' because artistry is so low on its list of priorities.

Non-musicians cherish fond memories of particular songs because they happened to be popular at the time something special happened in their lives. This explains why most people get stuck into the genre that coincided with the onset of their puberty. Artistic merit isn't even a consideration.

Realistic considerations like eating more than once a week become important if you make the decision to be a professional musician. If you crave pure originalty, check out the smaller venues that host local 'hobby bands'. These guys have day jobs to support themselves, so they don't have to 'go commercial' in order to survive.

There's some amazing stuff 'out there', if you look for it. It won't be in the big stadium shows. The kind of stuff you're looking for tends to grow a little closer to the ground, but it is there.

oh, I got your point.
The thing is if you pay attention you do find a couple awesome bands playing the large venues. Check out Clutch, or anything involving Les Claypool.

I'll have to disagree with Raskolnikov a little, there are great eras in music, granted it's nowhere near a decade but you some times get 6 months where 3 or 4 truely definitive albums are released very close to each other, from some great bands, and then there'll be a lag, where these bands go on tour/take a brake, where you get anything from 6 month to 1 year lull, where none of the major bands are producing anything.

i do disagree about the seventies simplisty in guitar, cos you'll end up with stuff that sounds similar when the most popular chord progression get used up.

The only thing in music now which wasn't there in the 70's which has really made a large impact, is fx/production. You feel the music is a lot more emotive when you hear the crystal clear strings part, and guitar solos than you would listening to a scratch hissy old 12 inch (nothing wrong with old 12 inches).

Oh yeah i recomend "sigor ros", for those intrested in something a litte more intresting..

Originally posted by educatedfilm


The only thing in music now which wasn't there in the 70's which has really made a large impact, is...

Back in the seventies, it's safe to say the that music told us something about the artists' personally. Today, with most bands you can't tell whether they are coming or going. Honesty isn't respected today like it was years ago, and there just isn't enough creative freedom. There's no easy way to way it.

Years ago, "musicians" put their hearts on the line, and their less than perfect point of view for the better of their compositions. Today, a lot the music is too safe, and "rockstars" feelk the need to follow a certain poattern to achieve success. Too many "rock stars today" they don't think in terms of longevity, which is sad, because they aren't liuving up to their true potential as "musicians." I'm not disgruntled fan who's constantly waiting for the past to repeat itself, I just wish that intergity went along with success today as it did years ago..

-Joseph

Put a little more thought into separating the commercial necessities from artistic ideals.

No band gets a recording contract (and big-time promotion and distribution) with a major label unless someone at the executive level is convinced there's profit to be made.

The Biz is run by business-oriented managerial types who would rather impose product on maleable consumers than allow unpredictable artistic cosiderations put their invested millions at risk. Give your head a shake, man, would you be willing to risk everything you own on the possible success of a band you just met? I've known a lot of people who couldn't take that chance on their own band, let alone someone they don't know.

If artistic purity is paramount, you finance the production and distribution of your own material. The web may provide the means to get your stuff out there, but the big sales numbers come from the kind of push that only the big companies can afford. Like it or not, they feel entitled to have some input on what kind of product they put their dollars behind.

In the much-lamented 70's, there weren't nearly so many people trying to break into the market. What we deal with these days, is a 'mature' industry where a large number of suppliers (bands) are vying for a share of a relatively saturated market. Every other industry in similar circumstances is experiencing similar domination by conglomerates, and homogenization of available product.

The good news is that there is a resurgence of craftsmen in these industries. In music, this is represented by bands formed of people who can afford to make music their way, without having to compromise for the sake of making a living. The word "amateur" means "for the love of doing".

'Sorry to sound so discouraging to anyone who hopes to make their way as a professional musician, but my advice is, if you intend to follow your muse as only you can hear her, you better hang onto your day job.

"The Biz is run by business-oriented managerial types who would rather impose product on maleable consumers than allow unpredictable artistic cosiderations put their invested millions at risk."
That applies to everything at the minute really, especailly here in the uk. This is getting worse now the financail heavy weights are merging, i'm being serious, this is really unhealthy for buisness to have such massive companies, who can afford mass advertising, and distrubution, and because of these factors musicains flock to them. All this means they're either crushing little independant record lables or buying them up.

"No band gets a recording contract (and big-time promotion and distribution) with a major label unless someone at the executive level is convinced there's profit to be made."

That is true, but there are alot of musicians managing to earn a living with out that big time recording contract.
THere's a fair amount of money to be made just by laying live, and occasionaly releasing stuff on independant record labels. in the Uk, really poeple have split, you've got those who like the charty stuff (there are plenty of these poeple...alot of them are kids, which is worrying cos that suggests they're being taken advantage of, cos some of these groups get slots on kids tv), and the other poeple, who like anything that really just tickles their fancies. There a lot of specialist shops around now, and i do feel distribution of some of the more underground stuff is getting better.

I dont think that music as a whole is becoming less geniune. Admitidly the chart stuff is pretty fake (i know some one will point out it is these poeple who are sucseeding and not the little bands), but there is some really good stuff out there, you Just have to look for it.

One more thing, musicains are beign a lot more experimental, someone said you can be experimental but at the end of the day you still suck, that maybe true, but your paving the way. New sounds are being made, although you might not be able to really utilise them, some else probably can. This should mean more diversity in music (it's hard to explain... listen to song "KID A" by radio head, i'm pretty sure they didn't come up with effects,it's just a vodex i think with some keyboard, but they've managed to use it pretty well).

music of 2day has changed a great deal from the past!
i mean... u get all the pop crap like backstreet boys nsync etc... that NOBODY can stand except for crazy chiks with a crush on the members in the groiup...

a lot of music that i consider good from 2day lacks a lot of talent (guitar solo worK) like sevendust, papa roach and disturbed but i still really enjoy listening to them coz the guitar work might not b great but it duznt suk! and the lyrics r really meaningful... (not that i really find a meaning in most songs)
music that i like from 2day r sevendust - waffle, home, licking cream.... papa roach - last resort, broken home... disturbed - voices, stupified

howeva... when im lookin for a band with talent i see METALLICA! they arent really as big as they used 2 b but their songs just simply rok! :)

l8r...

Their's always clusters of good records coming out- they just don't always relate to what you listen to.

As for no good uncomporomising music in the bigger scene... Download the song Pork Soda by Primus and tell me that their was a record exec anywhere near that studio when it was recorded.