Blues or Shred?

Originally Posted by: SuperhumanMan I would take shred lessons any day. People say shred is impersonal, that's very untrue, check out Jason Becker for a start. What's more, if you learn to play shred, then you will have the tools to play ANYTHING. It covers all techniques in a strictly musical framework and generally spans the entire fretboard. Learn shred and apply your technical ability to blues. Just my advice.

There's a problem with this...

Basicly Shred is based on classical technique with the thumb of the fretting hand behind the neck as when playing a regulation barre chord

Blues technique is different with the thumb of the fretting hand wrapped round the neck with the neck resting alomst in the palm of your hand. This is far more efficient for bends (remember bend from the elbow not from your fingers) & blues based licks.

So I reckon you'll have problems learning one & applying the technique to the other.

What do you LIKE!!?? That has to be the way to go...

why don't you just slow down shred? when you do, mess around with it learn some paul Gilbert, play it fast and slow and there you have it. Regarless, shred and the blues ae still guitar playing, I don't think you should limit yourself.

Why do you have to imerse yourself in only one style. The greats that came before developed their own voice by listening to and emulating all kinds of styles at once. I once took a job playing in a variety band simply to expose myself to all kinds of playing from be-bop to jazz to metal to blues to country. Guess what, Country taugt me the most. I am now rooted back into the hard rock scene and incorpate those country licks as often as possible. It sounds real fresh and is very satisfying. It 's a piece of wood with 6 strings on it that can speak many languages. And remember, don't let theory scare you away. Theory doesn't make the music, it was only created to give us a means to discuss and teach the language of music. Learn it all brother, either by ear or my sheet.

Some interesting opinions posted over the last four pages but it seems to me those coming from the "why pick one style, learn both" school of thought are not really addressing Plastic's original question. Maybe both are important but I'm guessing as he/she is thinking of taking lessons finances may only permit learning one technique for now - thus the question. Which one first?

For me there is no question. All you have to ask is which came first Blues or Shred? I hope you all answered blues so the next question is what style did most shredders learn before they learnt to shred? I think the answer in most cases would be blues again.

Personally I hate shredding and can't see the point of it. I can listen to about 30 seconds of Satriani before i want to put my boot through the CD player. Wickipedia defines shredding as " a guitar playing style where technical proficiency is the major goal".I.E. technique above phrasing, melody, emotion or any of the other thing for which the Electric guitar is justifiably famous.
Can anybody put forward a convincing argument to me that ANY Satriani song is more beautiful the The Thrill Is Gone?

Put it down to old age :D

Originally Posted by: yawnravalTheory doesn't make the music, it was only created to give us a means to discuss and teach the language of music.

Yes, it does. No one "created" theory. You can do whatever you want with music, but if you want it to be great, you do some of the things the greats did. That's what theory is. You look at some of the greatest minds in music and say "Hey, good idea!" Anyone frightened of theory because music shouldn't be about "learning" and should be about "feeling" is either ignorant or lazy.

Originally Posted by: KaffirlimePersonally I hate shredding and can't see the point of it. I can listen to about 30 seconds of Satriani before i want to put my boot through the CD player. Wickipedia defines shredding as " a guitar playing style where technical proficiency is the major goal".I.E. technique above phrasing, melody, emotion or any of the other thing for which the Electric guitar is justifiably famous.
Can anybody put forward a convincing argument to me that ANY Satriani song is more beautiful the The Thrill Is Gone?

Oh, come on, at LEAST pick Buddy Guy or Muddy Waters if you're going to compare a blues guy to one of the best shred guys. I mean, I don't even honestly think of Satriani as shred. When I file him in my CD collection, he goes under jazz.

Also, while I can't convince YOU that "Surfing with the Alien" or "Crystal Planet" are better constructed songs than "The Thrill is Gone," I know that on my own time I'd rather listen to the two former, the theme for Surfing moves me every bit as much as Muddy Waters's "Champagne and Reefer."

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonOh, come on, at LEAST pick Buddy Guy or Muddy Waters if you're going to compare a blues guy to one of the best shred guys. I mean, I don't even honestly think of Satriani as shred.

To be honest I probably chose Satriani just to be contentious because I know he's got a huge following on this site :p

But yeah, I'd say Satriani embodies everything I understand shred to be. Let me explain my position - I'm the wrong side of forty, rapidly approaching 50 so you can pretty much guess my influences. When I was learning guitar shred hadn't even been invented (or at least the name hadn't - There were always guys out there like Alvin Lee (Ten Years After) who made a career out of playing faster than anyone else) but playing twenty notes in the time a real blues guy took to bend one never turned me on.

Think back to the ill-matched 1996 G3 tour when Eric Johnson and Steve Vai toured with Satriani. I recall one particular song where Eric opened with some beautiful soulful blues licks which Vai and Satriani mimicked proving they knew the 'technical' side of blues but they used three dozen notes for Eric's handful - to my mind demonstrating that they just didn't 'Get' blues (On the other hand Johnson is technically as good if not better than either - Steve Vai is reputedly in awe of him). What this tells me is that people who are grounded in the Blues first (Johnson lists his earliest influence as the Clapton in his bluesbrerakers and Cream days) will find it far easirer to progress to shred if they choose to rather than the other way around.

Back to Plastic's original question - He was asking for people's own opinion on what lessons to take up first. He stated that he will eventually learn both styles so everyone to answered with 'Hey man learn both' really hasn't read the question. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by: KaffirlimeThink back to the ill-matched 1996 G3 tour when Eric Johnson and Steve Vai toured with Satriani. I recall one particular song where Eric opened with some beautiful soulful blues licks which Vai and Satriani mimicked proving they knew the 'technical' side of blues but they used three dozen notes for Eric's handful - to my mind demonstrating that they just didn't 'Get' blues (On the other hand Johnson is technically as good if not better than either - Steve Vai is reputedly in awe of him). What this tells me is that people who are grounded in the Blues first (Johnson lists his earliest influence as the Clapton in his bluesbrerakers and Cream days) will find it far easirer to progress to shred if they choose to rather than the other way around.

Well, I'm in awe of Eric Johnson myself, haha. However, Satriani's big influences include Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, and SRV. Perhaps not the oldest blues guys, but certainly a common vein with Eric Johnson. I do understand what you mean, though. I enjoy their high energy blues playing (wow, THAT's an oxymoron!) but also appreciate the works of people like Albert King. I just think both are a thing to be appreciated as music, and don't like to see technical proficiency being reduced to something other than music.

Originally Posted by: KaffirlimeSome interesting opinions posted over the last four pages but it seems to me those coming from the "why pick one style, learn both" school of thought are not really addressing Plastic's original question. Maybe both are important but I'm guessing as he/she is thinking of taking lessons finances may only permit learning one technique for now - thus the question. Which one first?

For me there is no question. All you have to ask is which came first Blues or Shred? I hope you all answered blues so the next question is what style did most shredders learn before they learnt to shred? I think the answer in most cases would be blues again.

Personally I hate shredding and can't see the point of it. I can listen to about 30 seconds of Satriani before i want to put my boot through the CD player. Wickipedia defines shredding as " a guitar playing style where technical proficiency is the major goal".I.E. technique above phrasing, melody, emotion or any of the other thing for which the Electric guitar is justifiably famous.
Can anybody put forward a convincing argument to me that ANY Satriani song is more beautiful the The Thrill Is Gone?

obviously, you havent heard a single song a Joe Satriani... :rolleyes:

his songs are not shred songs you...BEEP!

Originally Posted by: alucard0941obviously, you havent heard a single song a Joe Satriani... :rolleyes:

his songs are not shred songs you...BEEP!

Really? How interesting. Take a look at the shred zone website and you'll find 51 articles on the guy. I don't think many people on that site would agree with you you BEEPING BEEP :(

[font=trebuchet ms]Keep it civil, people![/font] :mad:

satch=shred=end of story ;)

Originally Posted by: Lordathestrings[font=trebuchet ms]Keep it civil, people![/font] :mad:

Unfair - I only called him a finger-picking guitarist :D

Really this is in danger of hijacking Plastic's thread so perhaps it should be moved to a new one but to reply to your post Akira I think you've just moved the goal posts enormously.

I don't think anyone has ever said Satch is ALL shred - Of course he can play blues. Hey I'm getting a sense of deja vu here - Wasn't it me who suggested most shred guitarists learnt their craft playing blues? The point is most of us classify a guitarist as belonging to one genre and in this instance most people would classify Satriani as a shred player. It just rolls of the tongue a little easier than calling him a shred/metal/blues/jazz/acoustic/alternative/classical/country guitarist, because truth be told he probably be pretty good at any of those styles but he just prefers to mostly play shred

[QUOTE=Kaffirlime]
Think back to the ill-matched 1996 G3 tour when Eric Johnson and Steve Vai toured with Satriani. I recall one particular song where Eric opened with some beautiful soulful blues licks which Vai and Satriani mimicked proving they knew the 'technical' side of blues but they used three dozen notes for Eric's handful - to my mind demonstrating that they just didn't 'Get' blues

QUOTE]

Come on man, you cannot honestly say that Steve Vai does not "get" ANY style out there. If you had a selection of his albums you certainly would not classify him as shred. His stuff is off the wall original, plain and simple. I think he is excellent but I don't like a lot of his work. Besides, this whole shred is crap debate is ridiculous. It seems to hinge on the "fast playing has no feel" line of thinking. That for a start is a load of bull. Music is about what the individual gets out of it. Take Francesco Farreri for example. This guy plays woefull shred in my opinion, easily in the top five fastest players on the planet but to my ears it just sounds like a collection of frenzied notes in key. Read his articles about the concepts behind what he plays and it starts to make sense. I still hate his music but I have to respect it. Its about what the msucica puts in and what the listener gets out of the music.
Personally, blues makes me want to throw my stereo out the window. If blues was the only style of guitar invented, I would try to invent a new one because it bores me to tears. But thats what GOOD music is all about, not appealing to the masses on a commercial level but going deaper to a more profound level which appeals to individuals. Whether we all like it or not, there is good shred and there is good blues, and there is a whole lot more crap than good in both genres.
If it comes to learning the guitar I still advocate learning the virtuostic because once you have mastered technique you can play anything you want... and no, shred does not have to be played consistantly at 180 bpm's, it can slow down in between licks. If you are learning guitar and you like blues and shred, what's to stop you from learning both at the same time???? Why not just get music theory lessons and apply what you like to what you learn without being influenced by a teachers specific taste in music?

Originally Posted by: AkiraDudes!!

Listen to Joe Satriani's self titled album, THEN try telling us Satch is all shred and has little grounding in the blues genre.

My personal favorite "blues" song by Satriani is "down, down, down". But Satch himself has said that he "sucks at the blues"... I've heard some jams that didn't back that statement up though. I think it all comes from a technical aspect of it... and the way his chops are. His chops are so good and so fast and technical that he could play a blues lick and making it sound like a metal lick... just because he can play it fast and technically sound with his own little flair... same goes for Vai. Listen to the version of Red House on that G3 tour cd or DVD its a great rendition... and I do believe that Eric Johnson was the glue that held it all together... The G3 with Vai, Satch, and Malmsteen however.... butchered Voodoo Chile... Mostly because Malmsteen does the same runs over and over (don't get mad... he's fast... real fast... but real boring too). As for my preference... I prefer Stevie Ray to Joe Satriani any day of the week.... I also prefer a soloist like Slash to say........ Petrucci... I find beauty in simplicity I guess... Its just as hard to be a great blues player as it is to be a great metal/virtuoso player... and it takes a lot more character to play the blues...

Can anybody put forward a convincing argument to me that ANY Satriani song is more beautiful the The Thrill Is Gone?[/QUOTE]

Can you put forth a convincing argument as to why you put down a wonderfully talented musician such as Satch?

Satriani is like shred with soul, where as Steve Vai just leaves me cold. I am a HUGE fan of B.B. King, as well as Albert, and Freddie(especially Freddie!), but I am also a huge fan of Satriani as well. Allways With Me, Allways With You is a beautifull song. Would I say it's more beatifull than The Thrill Is Gone? Certainly not. I would just say they are both beautifull songs.

Now as for the original question,
Do you think it would be easier to learn how to drive in a Ferrari, or a Volkswagon? Sure, they will both get you from point a to b, but if you don't know how to properly handle the speed of the Ferrari, it could lead to disaster. Learn how to drive first, then you will be more comfortable handling the speed later.

And I know, a Ferrari sounds like more fun, but is it practical to drive the Ferrari all the time? Of course not, you only take it out of the garage for special occasions!

Learn feel and emotion first, and it will serve you better when you start to pick up the speed.

My two cents! lol