I wrote this yesterday, it's yet another beginning to another concept. This was written when I actually decided to sit down and write something since I hadn't in a while.

I kinda dropped that other concept that I was working on cause it was a little gloomy and now fairly out dated. Still kinda interesting but this one is a quite a bit different.

Still very early so I am not gonna go into any detail, just let me know what you think.

Numb fingers grip this mop
and blindly clean these floors
a rhythm sits on top
it keeps the mind on chores

when the pattern breaks your mind seems fake
but thats just because you look
when the pattern breaks you see your fate
a bowl dwelling fish on a hook

Frightened fingers find the locks
and the keys they always had
disjointed from the knock
that freed them from this land

when the pattern broke your coma woke
and you fell from dark to light
when the pattern broke the light revealed
that you wished you had no sight

now fingers find a door
and enter to the light
the rhythm shifts some more
their fear persists in spite


This is an older song I wrote a while ago and recently rewrote. Let me know.

this probably almost a year old at this point...


All the horses at their gates
drink their jockeys start the race
cool spring air and nerves on fire
now descend into the mire

Down black holes on spiral stairs
[into] sound that rips and sneers and tears
[a] sea of heads that float about
[and] drown themselves to shut you out

Meet a face forget the name
just enough to stop the pain
alien thoughts that cloud the frame
an open windows taunts the lame

check your compass make a call
nothing now can stop your fall
a line of light that leads the way
your saving grace your legs betray

Back into the black night air
stop to see that no ones there
collect your thoughts and turn around
retrieve someone you haven't found

burning sticks and clouds of dust
taste like dirt but calm your lust
search again you cannot see
a face that looks like it is free

finally find a familiar face
and start the end run of the race
you see her and are only stunned
she chooses you and points her gun

a fatal flaw? did she lie?
should you not have even tried
you stumble blind across the line
and a broken heart is all you find


Harsh crits welcome. Have fun.

I have no idea of what you are trying to accomplish. As I stated before, I don't like to think to much when listening to music. I want the story line to be plain and simple, enjoyable, and entertaining. I tried to think once, but it hurt!-Curly of the 3 Stooges.

Keep it simple.

Loser!

The horses are at the starting gates,
You can feel the tension in the air.
There off! Running down the straight,
In the lead is the old gray mare.

As they come around the outside,
The lead is taken by Buttercup.
I stomp the ground and begin to cry,
Man! I am ..... out of luck! (fool ya!)

Not much better in the human race.
My heart broke as she turns her face.
Out the door and out of my life.
To the tub I walk with a butcher's knife.

Not my best work, but what do you expect in 3 minutes?
The point is tell the story. Don't make the audience wonder!

I really like the lyrics.. they are very Metallica-ish.. but I have to agree with the fundamental point looneytunes was making.. The lyrics just don't go anywhere.. they are certainly interesting and conjure up images but there's no plot/story.

Oh yeh.. and also, unless it is the entire point not to have a standard structure, people "expect" there to be a chorus, which is different to a verse because it repeats itself the same each time it is played. A chorus can be as simple or as complex as you like.. but that's where you put the real message.. may be with the addition of a chorus, the other bits can be put into context..

__________________
light487
Guitar Tricks Moderator

GuitarTricks
Daily Light Blog

Alright well I am into progressive and experimental music, and where as you don't like to think I really enjoy it. I really am not looking to sell my music to people who don't like to think, honestly I don't even sell it (yet).

I understand what your saying but you should understand that I am obviously not coming from the same place as you at all.

Plus there is a story and plot in both however the second one is fairly personal and if I told you it would make sense, the first one is conceptual and if you aren't into thinking then you probably wouldn't get it.

If you got some cool imagery out of it than that is really what I am going for.

Look at Tool, can you pick out a narrative on almost any of the songs on Lateralus? I can but I have a lot of experiences that let me know what they are talking about, plus I have thought about it. Maybe you don't know what "the Grudge" is about. I know exactly what it is about though, in fact I have lived it, but if you haven't then you have no idea.

I gotta mention the Mars Volta again. Deloused is an incredibly interesting Science fiction story about a guy's dreams while he is in a coma. You would never really know it unless you knew it though. and even then it is still crazy conceptual and doesn't make a lot of real sense, but tell me how often you have dreams that really make sense when you start to look at them in relation to "reality". However not only do the vocals work amazingly with the music but they all still convey the feeling they are meant to, at least they do if you "get it". I don't know, maybe they don't for everyone but it makes sense to me and they paint an incredibly rich, deep and complex story.

Anyways, my point is not to get defensive, but imagery is much more important to me than whether or not you understand the story, because if I can convey the imagery and communicate the idea it may not be immediately obvious to you but if you think about it it should come out. That is my goal. Thats what I want to know about them.


If the imagery is at least interesting and provocative than you can begin to build a story from it and because it is up to you to discern meaning it will be much more meaningful (as in filled with meaning). Thats the idea anyway.

So imagery is what I am looking for, not pop sensibility.

Oh and as far as the structure goes. Like I said I write progressive stuff so song structure is not rock or pop structure I deliberately break it in order to tell a more complex and dynamic story. It allows me to change not only the feeling of the song throughout it but the meaning as well, it is more like a movie or book, continually building on itself and revealing more and more information to tell a story that goes from a to b to d then to c (for example), rather than a story with a singular meaning or plot line.

I do repeat structures and patterns but the words are not kept the same each time. Musically this allows me to move from section to section in a more symphonic way (like prog rock tends to do) instead of having a very static composition.

Anyway like I said I don't want to come off as being defensive (at least not overly so) but it does seem as though (if you don't like thinking) we are at an philosophical impass.

I guess my point is... how is the imagery working for you?

haha.. I said I liked the lyrics.. reminded me of early Metallica stuff, which I really like.

__________________
light487
Guitar Tricks Moderator

GuitarTricks
Daily Light Blog

When I said that I had no idea of what you were trying to accomplish, I didn't. Now I do. Nothing! You are writing for yourself and if someone gets it or not, you don't really care. This is fine. It's like the poet who writes to just get out his fustrations or over his depression and locks his poems away in a trunk until generations later someone finds them, publishes them, and makes millions. This is fine.

However, my way of THINKING is; if you are going to do something, do it right. If you are going to take the time and effort to write a song, a poem, computer program, or check, do it right!

Everything we do in life has structure. There are rules and laws for how things are suppose to done. True, in some cases when these rules are broken it adds interest, but they always fall back to the basic structure.

It doesn't matter if you plan to sell your song or not. It should contain the basic structure and rules of songwriting, otherwise, its not really a song. I'm not saying these things to hurt your feelings. I am only trying to help you write a better song and one that most people would enjoy listening to.

When I said that I didn't like to think. I was referring to while listening to music. I am an engineer, I think all day long. When I get home I want to relax and not try to analysis what someone may or may not have meant in a song. It should be oblivous, and enjoyable.

I once had a friend that I use to get together with and practice playing guitar. After a few minutes of playing, I realized he could only play G, C, & F chords. I showed him how to play the F chord and started to show him others. He interrupted me and said, "Why do I need to know more chords, I can play all of these songs without learning any others?" He actually refused to learn anymore.

My point is if you refuse to learn anymore about songwriting, that's up to you. Don't expect everyone to change to meet your way of doing things. You need to learn the correct way. Otherwise, you are just putting down a bunch of words that mean something to only you. Some may or may not get it the same way as you. Others will get a different meaning than what you intended, and others (like my idol mind) don't get it at all!

If that's what you want, then fine.

Have a nice day!

I understand what your saying Looney.

I didn't want to come off as though I was refusing to "learn". I post here because I want people to let me know what they get form my songs and by analyzing that, it lets me improve the way I communicate my ideas into lyrics and music.

I also understand that you believe in a very rigid structure (I don't mean rigid in a bad way, just that you believe strongly in obvious structure) and I agree that structure is important for control. And like i said I believe in it as well.

My structure is there, its pretty rigid too if you ask me. There is a rhyme scheme in both songs, however I believe that I break it in both songs in one or two places, for effect in the Second one and for logical musical reasons in the first.

There are sections whose lines are controlled by the number of syllables. In the first one there are two sections denoting thematic/narrative and musical change. Each section is repeated at least once.

The older one is even more rigid, having only one section. The song is a narrative told from beginning to end in a linear fashion and therefore it doesn't call for much complexity.

The first one is more complex as it's underlying theme is conceptual and part of a narrative that requires multiple points of view to be expressed and information to be manipulated in a way that makes it possible to reveal things in a non-linear fashion through the use of clues and foreshadowing.

All this can and should be translated into music as well, musical themes that correspond to meaning, characters and settings (as well as feelings of course) also correspond to the lyrical sections.

This is the theory of course. It is what I am trying to get better at and learn.

I know about song structure and its not that I don't want to learn about it its that I am trying to do something a little less done.

However, if you really believe that music should appeal to lots of people for it to be legitamate then you shuld know that there is actually a massive market for this "type" of music. There are people like me who enjoy thinking deeply even in our freetime and this sort of thing appeals to me and I can safely assume there are many other people like me as well. Progressive music is exciting me not because I might get famous doing it or because a lot of people might listen to and enjoy my songs but because it gives me the opportunity to do something really unique and original. and if you need people to like something in order to think that it is "sucessful" or good than just check out any big prog band. No one has ever sounded like Mars Volta or The Locusts, Frank Zappa or Rush. These people didn't follow hardly any of the "rules" of songwriting and yet have still become quite popular becasue people (like me) are attached to things that sound different. Things that are unexpected and cause me to go "What the hell just happened" and then i go back and listen to it a hundred times in confused amazement.

Actually the Locusts aren't really really popular but they are fairly succesful and very unique.

But thats not the point.

I don't want to be the next Bob Dylan, or Paul McCartney. I don't want to be the next anyone. But that doesn't mean I am doing anything wrong. I'm still writing music and songs and lyrics.

But like I have said repeatedly I am not of the opinion that just because I am doing something "unique" (trying to) that there isn't room for improvement. That is definitely not what I am saying.

I can definitely get better at communicating my message but changing the message (dumbing it down, simplifying it) is not an option.

also I didn't mean to imply that you are stupid or whatever because you "don't like to think" just that I actually enjoy it and do it even when I don't need to. There are other people who do it too.