hendrix vs. van halen

[zepp_rules]

i'm having an argument with a friend at school,
he says Eddie Van Halen is a better guitarist
than Jimi Hendrix
i say the opposite

voice your opinion and reasons

[Joseph]

I guess its safe to say that you're looking for someone to end this argument, and make matters all better, :). Well when it all comes down to it, its a matter of taste. But keep in mind if it wasn't for Jimmi Hendrix, its very possible that Eddie Vanhalen would have never picked up the guitar, nor had the courage to go beyond the limit. After Jimmi Hendrix performed at the Monterey Pop Festival and watched his guitar go up in flames, a twelve year old Eddie V purchased his first guitar. With so much much conviction of passion after witnessing Hendrix's display of volatile emotion, that gave Eddie V the push that he was looking for. Most people feel that Eddie Vanhalen is the greatest, and yes when it comes to being technically proficient, (I don't think theres anyone who can top him.) But Jimmi Hendrix has that certain flair, a certain spark that no matter how fast others can play (no one can or has been able to duplicate.) So, instead of fighting back in fourth as to who has a better stroke, play your favorite records of the two one afternoon, and listen very closely for the elements that makes them so special. And take what you will, and add it to your own style.

-Joseph, :). As a matter of personal taste, I love Hendrix's style..

[Raskolnikov]

I'm partial to Stevie Ray myself, but it is all a mater of taste. You're in the middle of one of those arguments where you're both right and you're both wrong.

[muya]

I wonder what Ed would say?

[Fender Man]

I'm glad you brought this subject up. Hendrix is my favorite and always will be. I'm always arguing about who is better than Hendrix. I think Hendrix is the best. Just look at Tabcrawler.com's list of top players, who is at the top Hendrix, Eddie is #6. But there is a lot of different styles. Eddy may be faster, but Hendrix played with more feeling. And he wrote all his songs in a period of 3 to 4 years. He was so creative. Hendrix defined Rock 'n' Roll. There was no one like him. He made it cool to be a rock 'n' roller. Hendrix set the stage for all guitarist.

[James]

I always find it interesting how one player can be regarded as the most soulful and plays with the most feeling, and another player is regarded as more mechanical. Personally, I can't agree that Hendrix played with more feeling than Van Halen. I know that Hendrix is still regarded as the most soulful player, but to say that he plays with more feeling then someone else is in my opinion incorrect. How can we be the judge of what another guitar player is feeling? How do we know that Van Halen doesn't feel it as much, nobody can get into his head while his playing. But I have seen the look on his face during some performances and I must say it looks like he's feeling it quite a bit. It's my opinion that any guitar player who has dedicated that much of his life to guitar and has reached that level of expertise would HAVE to be able to feel it (a lot), or they would never have gotten that far.

[sixxstring54]

It is impossible to argue over who is better. Jimmi can't get better, obviously he is dead. Eddy is alive he can still practice and acheive higher standards for himself.

It is not a fair argument.

I kind of believe that Edward is the new Hendrix. He has changed the guitar for the better, just like Jimmi before him. They are both equal in this respect.

Peace

Sixx

[Led Zeppelin]

For passion alone hendrix. Van Halen is a great guiarist possibly more skilled as in he gets a clearer sound but think of all the influences Van halen had Hendrix, Clapton, Page and many more to influence him. Who did Hendrix have. He got a guitar in a pawn shop after he left the army, played it upsidedown and had a job within 2 weeks. Thats brilliance for you.

[Fender Man]

EXACTLY!!

[BadHorsie]

Everyone knows you can't say who's better. But... when it comes to technique it's a whole other subject. Let's face it people Eddie isn't even close to having the best technique. When someone says "technique" I automatically think of John Petrucci of Dream Theater. If there is someone that posts "Van Halen has way better technique than Petrucci" then you obviously haven't heard Petrucci play.

[Fender Man]

Do you know that Petrucci didn't even make the top 100 guitarist in the Guitar Legends magazine. So wrong. They had Wes Borland, Munky & Head, and Joni Mitchell but no Petrucci or Nuget. Sooooooo wrong. But if you ain't got that magazine go to the newstand and get it, overall it's pretty good.

[sixxstring54]

Edward Van Halen is not trying to out do Hendrix.

He is just a good guitarist making mostly good albums.

The argument should be should he have kicked out Sammy or not. It was a beautiful thing. Very good music, I couldn't believe they split up (sammy and Edward).

Sixx

[Fender Man]

They should have never kicked out Diamond Dave. Van Halen with David Lee Roth was a better than with Sammy. In my opinion.

[Prodigy144]

Eddie is the greatest guitar player that ever played, jimy hendrix only does a whole bunch of noise, if he had a solo it would be a whole bunch of stuff u cant even understand where eddie can make solos of real music and make it great, just look at his style in eruption, and eruption wasn't even supposed to be played it was him warming up and someone overheard and told him to record it, it was played wrong and it still sounds great, and in concert its still amazing, no one can ever play as good as eddie van halen

[CW14]

Hendrix a buch of noise eh?

Well my vote goes to 50 cent. He is an insain gutterist, he got sume madd skillz, just lissen 2 "In Da Club", thats sume insain gutter work!!11 :o

[Kevin Taylor]

I'll go with Eddie on this one.

[Blues_Man]

you cant judge talent by speed, you CAN judge it on feeling, ability to express on the guitar, and sometimes soungwriting. hendrix definitly wins hands down!

[Leedogg]

Another old ass thread being Lazarus'd

[aschleman]

who was Eddies biggest influence...........hm....? Maybe that should say enough.

[sigment frued]

why do people get hot and bothered over threads like this? it's an opinion not a fact, i tend to stay away from threads like this due to people claiming that 'hendrix is better cause he's got more feel' or 'look at van halen's skill'

A more reasonable argument would be who had more of an influence towards you and your guitar playing.

[RedZep]

Oh boy. . . This ought'a be fun. :D

While you read this post, listen to this (http://82.110.105.13/videotuts.com/pers/gt/Midnight.mp3)

Jimi Hendrix, plays a bunch of noise. . . you have to be kidding me. You are kidding right? Sounds like a close minded 12 year old thing to say to me, you are 12 right?

If not I sugest you open your eyes, because you are never going to become a great guitar player if you think someone like Jimi Hendrix isn't simply amazing.

This argument is really, really stupid. Eddie kicks ass, no doubt, so does Hendrix, there is one major difference though. No Hendrix = No Eddie (or at least what we know as Eddie today), not the other way around.

The thing that set Jimi Hendrix apart from everyone else was his ability to do everything perfectly, horribly, insanely different every time he played a song. Go listen to "Voodoo Child (Slight Return)" Live at the Isle of Wight, then go listen to the version on the Woodstock CD. . . is there a difference? Now, does one or the other suck? That's what I thought.

Now, take a step back, and look at the big picture. See how far Jimi Hendrix came with what influences he had? Now, see the influences we all have today, and you wonder why there are so many good guitarist, but no good musicians.

This is before the time of Led Zeppelin, remember? There was no Jimmy Page to be majorly influenced by, all he had were the great blues musicians of the -40's (think Muddy Waters, Lemon Jefferson, Son House, Robert Johnson, etc.), and the outstanding raisers of the 50's and onward, Bob Dylan, Elvis Presley (thank you very much, uh huh!), etc.

I remember, while I was walking through the great big Jimi Hendrix museum in Seattle Washington, there was a big-screen, with a interview on with Jeff Beck, and he said; "We were doing fine, playing with The Yardbirds, then all of a sudden this guy Jimi Hendrix came along, and I saw him play and thought to myself "time to find a new job. . .""

I can't wait to go back to the Jimi Hendrix museum, if you ever get a chance, go, because no matter what your views are on Hendrix, if you like him or not, you won't regret it, because it is simple amazing.

You should be about done with that song by now, depending on your reading speed/blindness. Now ask yourself; "How did he do that, with what he had to work with?"

I'm done here, I need a glass of water.

RedZep

[Kevin Taylor]

Man... I hate getting into discussions comparing two musicians. You always end up offending somebody because they take it personally that you aren't as impressed as you should be.
With that said... sorry but I just don't hear what you're hearing.
If it was anybody but Jimi Hendrix my comment would be that it's an intermediate guitar player doing some simple licks with a few standard quick runs that he's learned. He's constantly going out of beat with the backup band and the whole song goes along at one level and never gets anywhere.
Halfway through the song, the recording engineer had to add stereo reverb to the feedback guitar to make it sound more interesting, then added a flange effect over the next part of the song..mainly because the second part of the song doesn't sound any different than the first.

The 'plus' points in his favour are that he was one of the original people to come up with those licks and that, plus the fact that he was a black player and the fact that he's now dead has all added to the "ElvisLennon" effect of making him more than he actually was.

Van Halen learned everything that Hendrix did then went on to improve on it ten fold.
His playing isn't just faster, it's more innovative, cleaner, controled and more precise. His control of the whammy bar and the fact that he revolutionized tapping puts him way ahead of Hendrix in terms of playing talent in my opinion.

There's no way for instance, that hendrix could ever play any of this...

http://s93744050.onlinehome.us/eruptiontake18.mp3

But EVH could easily play anything that Hendrix ever did.

[tubescreamer]

Oh c'mon !!! You guys gotta be kidding .I actually love both players .Eddie is one of the reasons I picked up the guitar after all . But we're talking about a guy ( Jimi) who actually came up with stuff like the opening lick to "Voodoochild", "Fire", "Little wing" back when most people were doing the happy homosexual sing alongs .He was way ahead of his time .If it weren't for Hendrix most of us would be playing the gazoo and liking it including Eddie !! ;)

[RedZep]

There's no way for instance, that hendrix could ever play any of this...

http://s93744050.onlinehome.us/eruptiontake18.mp3

But EVH could easily play anything that Hendrix ever did.

Wait, Jimi could never play any of Eruption? You kidding me? I could play that if you locked me in a room with my guitar, an amp, and the recording. . . that's just pure brainlessness right there.

Anyway, back to learning Midnight, which is a much more interesting song than Eruption, which is just Eddie cumming all over his guitar. Everybody has those moments, it's nothing special.

RedZep

EDIT: What the hell do you mean it all sounds the same? Open your ears man. . . It's the same bloody thing as Eruption, and you may say that Eddie has more control over his tremelo bar? Possibly, though Eddie uses it as an effect, Jimi used it as flavor.

[Kevin Taylor]

> Wait, Jimi could never play any of Eruption? You kidding me? I could
> play that if you locked me in a room with my guitar, an amp, and the
> recording.

Great!
We'll be waiting for you to post your MP3 in the listening room.
Is tomorrow too soon?

[RedZep]

> Wait, Jimi could never play any of Eruption? You kidding me? I could
> play that if you locked me in a room with my guitar, an amp, and the
> recording.

Great!
We'll be waiting for you to post your MP3 in the listening room.
Is tomorrow too soon?

I could have sworn I added in a week in there, but now that I look at my post it seams that I didn't. Now being as I'm in the middle of learning a new hendrix song, and I need a guitar with a tremelo bar, I have one, but it's in le shop, maybe when we get it out. ;)

RedZep

[dakine80]

I could have sworn I added in a week in there, but now that I look at my post it seams that I didn't. Now being as I'm in the middle of learning a new hendrix song, and I need a guitar with a tremelo bar, I have one, but it's in le shop, maybe when we get it out. ;)

RedZep

If you can't play Eruption now, you won't be playing it in a week! You under estimate one of the greatest or arguably THE greatest
guitarists "Cumming all over his guitar" as you put it. If your in the MIDDLE of learning a Hendrix song, there's just no way you can lay down Eruption or Spanish Fly in a week. I learn Hendrix songs, note for note, in about 30 minutes to an hour. You're barkin up the wrong tree, when it comes to who's stuff is harder to play.

I'm sure Jimi could play "Eruption", but he didn't. Eddie did.

As far as "revolutionizing the guitar" I would go with Hendrix. The stuff he did laid the groundwork for rock guitar and then Eddie just took it to the next level. I think that these two are the best guitarists that ever lived because of how they changed the way guitar is played and the countless musicians they've inspired. No others come close.

As far as who's better is a question, in my opinion, that can't be answered, so I think they should both be #1.

[alucard0941]

Wait, Jimi could never play any of Eruption? You kidding me? I could play that if you locked me in a room with my guitar, an amp, and the recording. . . that's just pure brainlessness right there.

Anyway, back to learning Midnight, which is a much more interesting song than Eruption, which is just Eddie cumming all over his guitar. Everybody has those moments, it's nothing special.

RedZep

EDIT: What the hell do you mean it all sounds the same? Open your ears man. . . It's the same bloody thing as Eruption, and you may say that Eddie has more control over his tremelo bar? Possibly, though Eddie uses it as an effect, Jimi used it as flavor.
dude, EVH is a much better technical guitarist than Jimi. Period. He was more that 10 years after him, if he wasnt better than Jimi, then it would be a disgrace. Cause as every generation passes, the guitarists getter better by skill. So you cant Judge them as one being a better guitarist.(maybe whos the better inspirer, but not better guitarist)
Its like Issac Newton. He is in almost very physics book about his laws and is considered a genieus. He's worshiped by alot of scientists. YET!! scientists now days know much, much more than he every did in his lifetime. This same concept applies with Jimi and EVH. So Jimi cant really be compared to Eddy...

And I highly doubt Jimi could every play Eruption, even if he used his whammy bar for flavor... :rolleyes:

[sigment frued]

Man... I hate getting into discussions comparing two musicians. You always end up offending somebody because they take it personally that you aren't as impressed as you should be.
With that said... sorry but I just don't hear what you're hearing.
If it was anybody but Jimi Hendrix my comment would be that it's an intermediate guitar player doing some simple licks with a few standard quick runs that he's learned. He's constantly going out of beat with the backup band and the whole song goes along at one level and never gets anywhere.
Halfway through the song, the recording engineer had to add stereo reverb to the feedback guitar to make it sound more interesting, then added a flange effect over the next part of the song..mainly because the second part of the song doesn't sound any different than the first.

The 'plus' points in his favour are that he was one of the original people to come up with those licks and that, plus the fact that he was a black player and the fact that he's now dead has all added to the "ElvisLennon" effect of making him more than he actually was.

Van Halen learned everything that Hendrix did then went on to improve on it ten fold.
His playing isn't just faster, it's more innovative, cleaner, controled and more precise. His control of the whammy bar and the fact that he revolutionized tapping puts him way ahead of Hendrix in terms of playing talent in my opinion.

There's no way for instance, that hendrix could ever play any of this...

http://s93744050.onlinehome.us/eruptiontake18.mp3

But EVH could easily play anything that Hendrix ever did.


but steve vai, Joe, yngwie, a guy called liam flynne I know who lives down the road can play these songs, but it does not make them a better guitarist than Van Halen.

[RedZep]

If you can't play Eruption now, you won't be playing it in a week! You under estimate one of the greatest or arguably THE greatest
guitarists "Cumming all over his guitar" as you put it. If your in the MIDDLE of learning a Hendrix song, there's just no way you can lay down Eruption or Spanish Fly in a week. I learn Hendrix songs, note for note, in about 30 minutes to an hour. You're barkin up the wrong tree, when it comes to who's stuff is harder to play.

I'm sure Jimi could play "Eruption", but he didn't. Eddie did.

As far as "revolutionizing the guitar" I would go with Hendrix. The stuff he did laid the groundwork for rock guitar and then Eddie just took it to the next level. I think that these two are the best guitarists that ever lived because of how they changed the way guitar is played and the countless musicians they've inspired. No others come close.

As far as who's better is a question, in my opinion, that can't be answered, so I think they should both be #1.


In the middle, as in, I actually had the guitar in my hands when I wrote that post.

You can learn Jimi in half an hour to an hour, eh? I want an MP3 of "Castles Made of Sand", you playing it of course. Is two hours too soon?

Went and had a listen to Eruption again. As soon as the strat is out of the shop, (say two weeks or so), I'll set forth to learn that song, and then i'll video record it, and post it, sound cool to you? Of course, you'll have to give me 1 week from the day I get my strat back to learn it, but i'll have it done earlier as my friends tell me, but say a week just to polish off that nice tapping thing Eddie has going on, which I've never done before.

I love it when people challenge me to play songs that are the genre of music I like, because even if I don't like the song in general, I'll learn whatever anyway. Proving people wrong is so much fun. :rolleyes:

BTW, "Cumming on the guitar" is my expression for doing really fast randomness that sounds good and feels good, makes sense doesn't it? ;)

RedZep

[panterrules925]

In my opinion jimi is definately better. I mean sure Eddie came up with tapping and what not but jimi played rythem guitar, lead guitar and sang all at the same time and that is definately one of the most difficult things to do in music, to me its kinda like it doesnt matter how many notes you can play in three seconds its more of the feeling and emotion you put into each note. But thats not to say Eddie didnt play with emotion.

[dakine80]

In the middle, as in, I actually had the guitar in my hands when I wrote that post.

You can learn Jimi in half an hour to an hour, eh? I want an MP3 of "Castles Made of Sand", you playing it of course. Is two hours too soon?

Went and had a listen to Eruption again. As soon as the strat is out of the shop, (say two weeks or so), I'll set forth to learn that song, and then i'll video record it, and post it, sound cool to you? Of course, you'll have to give me 1 week from the day I get my strat back to learn it, but i'll have it done earlier as my friends tell me, but say a week just to polish off that nice tapping thing Eddie has going on, which I've never done before.

I love it when people challenge me to play songs that are the genre of music I like, because even if I don't like the song in general, I'll learn whatever anyway. Proving people wrong is so much fun. :rolleyes:

BTW, "Cumming on the guitar" is my expression for doing really fast randomness that sounds good and feels good, makes sense doesn't it? ;)

RedZep

First you said your guitar was in the shop, but now it was in your hands?
Which was it? In the shop or in your hands? Or were you in the shop with it in your hands writing the post? I'm confused. :confused:

As far as Castles in the Sand, I learned that when I was a teenager and it took me much longer than an hour. If I were to learn it now (if I hadn't learned it before) it would probably take a an hour.

While two handed hammer-ons are the main feature of Eruption, it's the easiest part of it. You've never even done them before and you're going to mimic the master of them?!
I would LOVE to hear you play Eruption note for note, as it's played on "Van Halen 1" (not the mp3 schmannge posted;Eruption was done on the first take.) Take 18 sounds like it may have been recorded after Eddie had 18 beers. I'll give ya a month, sound fair?

All apologies if you prove me wrong. But you won't.

Good Luck!

[alucard0941]

Went and had a listen to Eruption again. As soon as the strat is out of the shop, (say two weeks or so), I'll set forth to learn that song, and then i'll video record it, and post it, sound cool to you? Of course, you'll have to give me 1 week from the day I get my strat back to learn it, ;)

RedZep
now isnt is just so convinent that when a challenge comes, your guitar is in the shop for a week or so

...I smell somthing iffy... :confused:

[RedZep]

First you said your guitar was in the shop, but now it was in your hands?
Which was it? In the shop or in your hands? Or were you in the shop with it in your hands writing the post? I'm confused. :confused:

As far as Castles in the Sand, I learned that when I was a teenager and it took me much longer than an hour. If I were to learn it now (if I hadn't learned it before) it would probably take a an hour.

While two handed hammer-ons are the main feature of Eruption, it's the easiest part of it. You've never even done them before and you're going to mimic the master of them?!
I would LOVE to hear you play Eruption note for note, as it's played on "Van Halen 1" (not the mp3 schmannge posted;Eruption was done on the first take.) Take 18 sounds like it may have been recorded after Eddie had 18 beers. I'll give ya a month, sound fair?

All apologies if you prove me wrong. But you won't.

Good Luck!

I had my guitar in my hands, I have 8 of them, so you would figure just because two of them are in the shop, I would be playing one of the other six.

Had a bout with tapping today, quite fun, not exactly easy, but if you get the compressor set just right, all you have to do is brush your finger over the fret and it picks the note up real nice.

Luckily for me, I have my dad to help me out with the tone, I'm crap at tones, I just play the guitar. He's been playin' for 40 years, so I should hope he has all that wired. :D

now isnt is just so convinent that when a challenge comes, your guitar is in the shop for a week or so

...I smell somthing iffy... :confused:

It's not convinent, I want the damn thing back (and my '58 Les Paul which is in there too), but best let the techs run their magic.

Well, back to playing me Tele, lates all,

RedZep

[dakine80]

I had my guitar in my hands, I have 8 of them, so you would figure just because two of them are in the shop, I would be playing one of the other six.

Had a bout with tapping today, quite fun, not exactly easy, but if you get the compressor set just right, all you have to do is brush your finger over the fret and it picks the note up real nice.

Luckily for me, I have my dad to help me out with the tone, I'm crap at tones, I just play the guitar. He's been playin' for 40 years, so I should hope he has all that wired. :D


It's not convinent, I want the damn thing back (and my '58 Les Paul which is in there too), but best let the techs run their magic.

Well, back to playing me Tele, lates all,

RedZep

Dude, don't worry about the tone or even the quality of the recording. I just want to hear you play it. Practice it for a month(3 weeks more time than you said you could lay it down) and let er' rip. I'll be able to tell if your using the right effects or not, but I don't care about that. You could just play it with a sh*t guitar, straight into a sh*t amp.

BUT... if you really want to blow my mind and prove that I'm a dumba** by playing it note for note with a sh*t hot tone I'll let ya know EXACTLY how Eddie achived the Tone on Eruption: Use ALOT of reverb, high treble, go through a phase shifter and turn it all the way down and last, don't try the bar dive at the end because it's NOT a bar dive! He uses a delay peddle for the end effect.

If you play your telecaster(or any one of your 8 guitars) into pretty much any amp that's 60 watts or up with those effects you're set.

Hope to hear from you soon! ;)

[RedZep]

Thanks for the tips, I had guessed all of them except the bit about the delay pedal, thanks for that. ;)

What you can tell me that I would like to know, is, right about the 5th note into the song he does;

------------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------
-------5---7^----------------
---7--------------------------
------------------------------

Now right at the part where the bend is with the "^" he gets this nice squeeky harmonic kick to the note, which just playing around I do once in a while, but I never knew you could control it, how exactly do you do this "on-call"? Or is he just hitting the damn thing just right to make it do that?

Anyway, n00b question of the day is now over.

RedZep

[dakine80]

Thanks for the tips, I had guessed all of them except the bit about the delay pedal, thanks for that. ;)

What you can tell me that I would like to know, is, right about the 5th note into the song he does;

------------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------
-------5---7^----------------
---7--------------------------
------------------------------

Now right at the part where the bend is with the "^" he gets this nice squeeky harmonic kick to the note, which just playing around I do once in a while, but I never knew you could control it, how exactly do you do this "on-call"? Or is he just hitting the damn thing just right to make it do that?

Anyway, n00b question of the day is now over.

RedZep

It's controlled. Use a thick guage pick, strike the note with the pick while graizng the string with your picking thumb.

Pulling off artificial harmonics is the last thing you should worry about now. You should probably start focusing on extremely accurate speed picking if you plan to pull this off.

[Polera]

jimi rocks on

[RedZep]

It's controlled. Use a thick guage pick, strike the note with the pick while graizng the string with your picking thumb.

Pulling off artificial harmonics is the last thing you should worry about now. You should probably start focusing on extremely accurate speed picking if you plan to pull this off.

Thanks for that, sort of hard to pull off at first, but with a bit of practice I shall have it.

I know how to play fast, that's not my problem, it's all the little detail bits that are hard, the little things; like the harmonics.

Out of the 8 guitars I have, the only one that has a temelo bar is in the shop, total rippage. :(

RedZep

[Dante7978]

Thanks for that, sort of hard to pull off at first, but with a bit of practice I shall have it.

I know how to play fast, that's not my problem, it's all the little detail bits that are hard, the little things; like the harmonics.

Out of the 8 guitars I have, the only one that has a temelo bar is in the shop, total rippage. :(

RedZep
Dude, I have to say, you're an extremely conceited person. You were just saying how Eruption was an easy solo to learn, and how you can learn to play it easily, yet here you are talking about your problems you're having with the song. And everytime you post an opinion, you talk as if it's a fact. I'm sure you understand the concept of opinions, so no matter how much crap you post, it isn't going to convince any of our minds to think the way you do. And dude, You don't HAVE to have a guitar with a tremelo bar in order to play it. In that case, most guitarist "won't" be able to play it. You have friggin 8 guitars, use any of em. Ok, I'm done with my rant. If you can play it, good for you, it's not made to make any of us feel bad. So please, stop being so arrogant.

[RedZep]

Dude, I have to say, you're an extremely conceited person. You were just saying how Eruption was an easy solo to learn, and how you can learn to play it easily, yet here you are talking about your problems you're having with the song. And everytime you post an opinion, you talk as if it's a fact. I'm sure you understand the concept of opinions, so no matter how much crap you post, it isn't going to convince any of our minds to think the way you do. And dude, You don't HAVE to have a guitar with a tremelo bar in order to play it. In that case, most guitarist "won't" be able to play it. You have friggin 8 guitars, use any of em. Ok, I'm done with my rant. If you can play it, good for you, it's not made to make any of us feel bad. So please, stop being so arrogant.

Why does it always seam, right when things calm down, someone has to come and yell again, waaaahhhhhhhhh.

Where did I say it was easy to play? Quote me on that please. I said if you locked me in my room, with a guitar and an amp (for a week (though it must have been 2 am and I forgot to type that)) I could learn it.

I know what the hell an opinion is, I don't need you to tell me. If my "opinion" comes off to you as sounding like a fact, that's your problem. Not mine. I'm not trying to convince anyone to think the way I do. That's the problem with opinions, everyone has an opinion on everyone's opinion of someones opinion. (Gee, thats a screwed up sentance. . .).

I don't HAVE to have a guitar with a tremelo bar to play the song, indeed, but regardless, it's in the song, and I choose to play it that way.

Done with my rant-back.

I'm glad this happened, I get to learn a whole bunch of stuff I wouldn't have otherwise. Like the bit on the harmonics, brilliant, I didn't know that, though i'm what one would call an "illiterate guitar player".

My fingers hurt (from playing, not typing), now for dinner. Dante7978; I'll be awaiting your rant-back, because I know you'll have one. Everyone does. :)

RedZep

[Dante7978]

Why does it always seam, right when things calm down, someone has to come and yell again, waaaahhhhhhhhh.

Where did I say it was easy to play? Quote me on that please. I said if you locked me in my room, with a guitar and an amp (for a week (though it must have been 2 am and I forgot to type that)) I could learn it.

I know what the hell an opinion is, I don't need you to tell me. If my "opinion" comes off to you as sounding like a fact, that's your problem. Not mine. I'm not trying to convince anyone to think the way I do. That's the problem with opinions, everyone has an opinion on everyone's opinion of someones opinion. (Gee, thats a screwed up sentance. . .).

I don't HAVE to have a guitar with a tremelo bar to play the song, indeed, but regardless, it's in the song, and I choose to play it that way.

Done with my rant-back.

I'm glad this happened, I get to learn a whole bunch of stuff I wouldn't have otherwise. Like the bit on the harmonics, brilliant, I didn't know that, though i'm what one would call an "illiterate guitar player".

My fingers hurt (from playing, not typing), now for dinner. Dante7978; I'll be awaiting your rant-back, because I know you'll have one. Everyone does. :)

RedZep

Ok, here comes the expected rant back. We all know the concept of opinions, I'm just restating the concept, and telling you my opinion. (Whoa, unexpected...) As for the conceited part, there's some things I have to say:
You said "I could play that if you locked me in a room with my guitar, an amp, and the recording. . . that's just pure brainlessness right there. " So in this this statement, you said you could play it. Not learn it. And mentioning the "recording" in that statement won't help, because most guitarists like play along with the songs. And saying, "I love it when people challenge me to play songs that are the genre of music I like, because even if I don't like the song in general, I'll learn whatever anyway. Proving people wrong is so much fun. " is pretty arrogant of you to say. And another thing, I accidently mistook you for another guy here. I just remembered the thread "8 year old virtuoso" where he said that the kid was nothing special, and he could do better. Now that was the REAL conceited guy. Sorry for mistaking y'all, kinda easy since y'all both love blues. Oh, and saying stuff like this, "Why does it always seam, right when things calm down, someone has to come and yell again, waaaahhhhhhhhh." only helps continue the problem. But things like this, "Dante7978; I'll be awaiting your rant-back, because I know you'll have one. Everyone does. :)" helps prevent it. I don't want to start a war, I was just caught in one of my moments of rage. It's just that I HATE conceited people. I'm sure you can understand. I don't want anymore rants hit back and forth, cuz there's many in this thread as it is. So let's just let bygones be bygones.

[RedZep]

Above resolved in the Chat Room.

Back to life.

RedZep

[Raskolnikov]

Above resolved in the Chat Room.
Thanks -- I was about to warn you guys to tone things down a bit before I had to close the thread.

[RedZep]

Sorry 'bout that Rask.

On a higher note, yet still related to the new topic!

http://www.bobbyyang.com/video/750kb.htm

This dude kicks some serious ass with the Violin! :D

RedZep

EDIT: Only the link isn't working right now. . . :confused:

[dakine80]

Red Zep-

For the risk of sounding redundant, PLEASE don't worry about the tremolo parts. You got until mid-September. I don't want to hear excuses.

[RedZep]

I'm not worried about it, it's the last thing on my list of things to work out on this song. All I need to work out is the acuracy of my playing. I just hate it when things don't "sound" right. If you sound good, you play good, in my opinion.

I'm not giving excuses, you want to give me a full month? I would have stuck with the week myself, but it's fine with me. ;)

Going to bed, it's 2 AM,

RedZep <---- no space between the Red and the Zep.

[griefwearsgray]

van halen? come on.
hendrix is definately the one that wins. eddie was just a **** rocker with fast fingers. jimi inspired eddie. ive listened to both with an open mind and it seems evh copped some tricks from jimi. thats just what i think. bye.

[Jolly McJollyson]

I'm not worried about it, it's the last thing on my list of things to work out on this song. All I need to work out is the acuracy of my playing. I just hate it when things don't "sound" right. If you sound good, you play good, in my opinion.

I'm not giving excuses, you want to give me a full month? I would have stuck with the week myself, but it's fine with me. ;)

Going to bed, it's 2 AM,

RedZep <---- no space between the Red and the Zep.
Shouldn't we have heard this last month?

[rawrockkills]

i think evh is the better guitar player... jimi hendrix could put on a show but he wasnt as good as evh... although hendrix did die in his 20's so he couldve gotten better. i also think eddie wins for being able to improvise something as great as eruption.... :)

[gogogo]

Why have this arguement when there is no definitive answer??

I mean two styles

two eras

two different Worlds!

[hann1bal]

I think hendrix was a pioneer for distortion effects and alot of the gear we use today and even musically..but as far as actually playing the guitar..van halen would blow him off the stage.

[Jolly McJollyson]

i think evh is the better guitar player... jimi hendrix could put on a show but he wasnt as good as evh... although hendrix did die in his 20's so he couldve gotten better. i also think eddie wins for being able to improvise something as great as eruption.... :)
It wasn't improvised.

[Akira]

Why have this arguement when there is no definitive answer??

I like your train of thought.

[Gretschky]

i'm having an argument with a friend at school,
he says Eddie Van Halen is a better guitarist
than Jimi Hendrix
i say the opposite

voice your opinion and reasons

I am equally impressed by them both...

yet I prefer listening to Eddie Van Halen

[Sk8er309]

I personally think Jimi Hendrix is the best ,but thats my opinion.

[ericthecableguy]

Why have this arguement when there is no definitive answer??

I mean two styles

two eras

two different Worlds!

Yes. My friends, there is no universal measuring stick to determine the greatness of guitarists, making the "who is better" question, in this case unfair.

[Jolly McJollyson]

Meh. I enjoy it.

[zoran the dark]

you can't compare them, they are to different I say.
but that's because what hendrix started, Edward went on with that. Hendrix needed to search things out, Eddie also, but allready had what Hendrix had done.

They are to different, but I say Van Halen. He's an artist and Hendrix a piece of crap.

[ericthecableguy]

Meh. I enjoy it.

Ya. I gues just because you can't doesn't mean you can't. :D

[Blues_Man]

They are to different, but I say Van Halen. He's an artist and Hendrix a piece of crap.

How dare you call hendrix a piece of crap :mad: !!! If it wasnt for hendrix, you most likely wouldn't have people like VAN HALEN, or satriani, vai, or pretty much anyone else after him for that matter, because he accomplished so much on the guitar, oh yeah and by the way all he had to learn from was buddy guy, hubert sumlin, robert johnson, people like that. What did eddie have? Hendrix, clapton, jeff beck, jimmy page, should the list go on?! And he did that in about 3 years, eddie did it in 10.

[16andlifetogo]

How dare you call hendrix a piece of crap :mad: !!! If it wasnt for hendrix, you most likely wouldn't have people like VAN HALEN, or satriani, vai, or pretty much anyone else after him for that matter, because he accomplished so much on the guitar, oh yeah and by the way all he had to learn from was buddy guy, hubert sumlin, robert johnson, people like that. What did eddie have? Hendrix, clapton, jeff beck, jimmy page, should the list go on?! And he did that in about 3 years, eddie did it in 10.

nicely done!!!! Hendrix is the man

[Blues_Man]

nicely done!!!! Hendrix is the man

Thank you!! You can't mess with hendrix!!

[zoran the dark]

How dare you call hendrix a piece of crap :mad: !!! If it wasnt for hendrix, you most likely wouldn't have people like VAN HALEN, or satriani, vai, or pretty much anyone else after him for that matter, because he accomplished so much on the guitar, oh yeah and by the way all he had to learn from was buddy guy, hubert sumlin, robert johnson, people like that. What did eddie have? Hendrix, clapton, jeff beck, jimmy page, should the list go on?! And he did that in about 3 years, eddie did it in 10.

yo dude, that's what I'm trying to tell. Hendrix did have an important roll for development in the guitarworld, but if he was a guy from now-a-days, I think we probably never knew him. he's not a spectacular guitarist.

[dakine80]

What happened to RedZep? :confused: He said one week and it's been three months! Maybe I should've given him three years. ;)

[RedZep]

What happened to RedZep? :confused: He said one week and it's been three months! Maybe I should've given him three years. ;)

Yes yes, I had forgotten about the site, new band and girlfriend will do that to you.

Here ya go: http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16982

Lol, happy? :p

[RedZep]

yo dude, that's what I'm trying to tell. Hendrix did have an important roll for development in the guitarworld, but if he was a guy from now-a-days, I think we probably never knew him. he's not a spectacular guitarist.

He is spectacular, he's not a technical wizard like so many are today, but back in 1970 he sure as hell was.

Blues_Man: both guitarists had their entire lives to learn guitar, saying Jimi had 3, is, kind of retarded. :P But if you mean his career, than yeah, but that's what happens when you inhale your own puke, your career ends. ;)

This is retarded enough a battle (as I can see now.) both guitarists had their place, both had something special, and both changed the world of guitar.

Now, stop sword fighting with e-penises, and go do something productive.

RedZep

[Lordathestrings]

Better >late (http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16982)< than never?

[alucard0941]

man im surprized so many remembered :confused:

[skylerking5150]

i think eddy is the best ever ive been to concerts,and i can play tons of his songs on guitar. i just love what he can do on a guitar
:)

[Ito1221]

Hendrix Is By Far Superior......if It Werent For Jimi Van Halen Probably Would Not Exist.....noone Will Evr Have The Sound Or The Soul Like Hendrix

Long Live The King!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[paul67]

both are great, no question. different styles. eddie could do it all, speed,unique sound all his own, creating a sound and stlye all his own, copied a billion times over by guitarist world-wide. eddie is no doubt number 1 !
jimi was great , eddie was just better, remember when jimi came out there was no one out there to compare him to,,so ofcourse he was king at that time. if the 2 played side by side eddie could shoot him down with ease.,just look at videos of both---2 diff. artists--different styles-- no fence riding here--eddie van halen number 1 on many lists of all time great rock guitarists!

[earthman buck]

Interesting debate, no doubt. Although I think Eddie defined rock guitar from their debut through the late eighties, I think you kinda have to give the nod to Jimi. The reason? Well, although Eddie could WAIL on the guitar, Jimi played with more soul. For me, it just seems that Jimi had more passion in his playing than Eddie does. Eddie is technically a superior player (like Vai and Malmsteen and Satriani...etc) but Jimi seemed to put more of himself into it.

I dunno. I've only been playing for about 18 months. What do I know?
About as much as me, if not more.

I think I've already said this in this thread, but I'll say it again: Jimi.

Simply because I like Jimi Hendrix's music more than I like Van Halen. There's so much more to hear.

[Lordathestrings]

I think the difference shows up most when you examine their solos.

Jimi's solos are all carefully tailored to the song istelf. You can't swap them around. At all.

Too many of Eddie's solos consist of scales and arpeggiated chords that not only don't enhance the melody of the song, but could be dropped into just about any other VH piece and fit in there just as well (or just as badly).

[hunter60]

^^^^Yup to both of the previous posts. :)

[DAMAGED ONE]

This Im sure has already been said in this thread, Their would be no Eddie Without Hendrix to guild him to his destiny. :rolleyes:

[grizzlymint]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a332/stackny/apples.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a332/stackny/oranges.jpg

Which looks better....

[aschleman]

I like apples because you can enjoy them right away without having to peel them or worry about getting juice in your eyes... Sometimes you look stupid when you're peeling oranges...

Jimi=Apples

[grizzlymint]

I tend to agree with you aschelman. Soul goes a long way in my book. And Jimi had friggin soul to say the least. However, still very different guitarists.

[dvenetian]

You have to give both artists their credit due, including their unique sound.
The difference between hendrix and EVH is that some of hendrix sound was caused from things that were stumbled upon. Say you take a right handed guitar and string it upside down but don't realize that the pick-ups also need to be reversed; Ooops, now the low-E frequency is picked-up from the bright side of the pick-up. Bingo - new sound and many guitar players in the mid-sixties now are switching from their Les Pauls to Fender Strats, including Clapton! Then Frank Zappa introduces him to a newly invented effect called a Wah Wah Petal. Another thing that comes to mind is that the first 2 albums were recorded in Europe using Marshall amps (which would require a 240 volt/50 hz amp compared to the US using 110 volt/60 hz) resulting in a different tone with these combinations. This gave Hendrix a sound and feedback ability never heard before because most artists were using Fender and Vox amps.
Hendrix main problem was staying in tune with his techniques.
Eddie Van Halen's shear genious goes far beyond his playing techniques, which will be in the next post.

[dvenetian]

Ask Evh who the best in the world is and he would say Allen Holdsworth.
I can't compare Hendrix vs. Evh because they are two different styles.
Hendrix was Blues with Soul, Eddie plays mainly Major voicings (happy sounds), but would slightly flatten his B string to avoid the rapid beating of the Major third through distorted Amps, giving great opportunities with open G and B string interals. He also built his own guitar that became known as the "Frankenstrat" and as heavily involved in the design of the new Floyd Rose locking Tremolo system. Through trial and error he became the main influence for Floyd Rose and came up with adding fine tuner knobs to the system. He then invented the "Detuna" system by allowing the low E string to be dropped to D tuning with the flip of a knob and pioneered the "Transtrem" system that instantly changes tuning by 2 1/2 steps (used in the song "Summer Nights" for instance). He also created his now famous "Brown Sound" with amp mods (although never admitted ) by reducing wattage to his amps. All of Eddies "bag of tricks" make him one of the most influencial guitarists of all time. He has drawn most music manufacturers to his doorstep in hope that he would endorse their product.
Like him or not, EVH is much more than a guitarist, he is an icon in the music industry.
By means of a guitarist, Jimmy Page has incorporated more advanced voicings to the industry than most.
Hendrix, RIP, died over 36 years ago. Just imagine what he would have gifted to the music industry by now.

[paul67]

eddie van halen vs jimi hendrix-- eddie wins !

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

both are great, no question. different styles. eddie could do it all, speed,unique sound all his own, creating a sound and stlye all his own, copied a billion times over by guitarist world-wide. eddie is no doubt number 1 !
jimi was great , eddie was just better, remember when jimi came out there was no one out there to compare him to,,so ofcourse he was king at that time. if the 2 played side by side eddie could shoot him down with ease.,just look at videos of both---2 diff. artists--different styles-- no fence riding here--eddie van halen number 1 on many lists of all time great rock guitarists!


this is in a reply to my previous post: i was a little unfair to jimi, so here it goes, voooo child, and red house--simply unreal,,,,in all fairness,,,who could even come close to copying those tracks--- i think people can play those songs, but i doubt anyone can make those songs come alive like jimi could,,,and yes not even eddie. i still stand by by previous post above, but lets be real ,,if any of us could come close to those guys we would not be posting and sending replies all over the place,,,, god bless jimi and eddie,,2 truly great talents of our time-----and for the record,these guys are my top 2 guitarists of all time !!! as a kicker to ther talent, i believe these 2 guys absolutely contributed the most. imagine if jimi were alive and playing now!!

[aschleman]

Nowadays, nothing that Jimi did is so amazing... but at the time that he did it... It was genius.

Same thing goes for EVH. It was amazing then... But just about every shred head can play what EVH plays... it's nothing mind blowing.

Vai > Satriani > EVH

Stevie Ray > Jimi Hendrix > Eric Clapton

You'll notice that in each of these equations the guitarist to the far left is the one that is the most modern... the one on the far right is the oldest... That's the way it will always be. "The newest thing is the greatest thing"

Personal preference is the name of the game gentleman and opinions vary.

[Bluegrasslimey]

It is impossible to argue over who is better. Jimmi can't get better, obviously he is dead. Eddy is alive he can still practice and acheive higher standards for himself.

It is not a fair argument.

I kind of believe that Edward is the new Hendrix. He has changed the guitar for the better, just like Jimmi before him. They are both equal in this respect.

Peace

Sixx


You got tht right dood. Hendrix changed the face of rock guitar and eddie added the finger tapping element to rock.

Who's better, well to end an argument I AM, SO THERE. :D

[g----rant]

Nowadays, nothing that Jimi did is so amazing... but at the time that he did it... It was genius.

Same thing goes for EVH. It was amazing then... But just about every shred head can play what EVH plays... it's nothing mind blowing.

Vai > Satriani > EVH

Stevie Ray > Jimi Hendrix > Eric Clapton

You'll notice that in each of these equations the guitarist to the far left is the one that is the most modern... the one on the far right is the oldest... That's the way it will always be. "The newest thing is the greatest thing"

Personal preference is the name of the game gentleman and opinions vary.

haha, before we know it we're gonna have a vai or satch war.

but in regards to hendrix or van halen,

i personally don't go near either of them. but i leave their recordings alone for different reasons.

with hendrix, i leave them alone and don't try to play them note for note, like those two guys way back on page 9 or something were fighting bout, because i realise that trying to replicate the things hendrix did wouldn't make me my own player, so to speak. not to mention that i don't have any chance of replicating the feedback and syncopated rhythmic sense hendrix brought to the table back then, so i don't try. with hendrix, i don't try to play his music the way he did because his style was so complex and hard to grasp rhythmic wise, and out of sheer respet for the man, may he RIP.

with Eddie, i never got into that much van halen really. i don't wanna start a war or anything here, first of all, but here's how i saw their material:
van halen would have a tune that hooked you straight away, roth or hagar, didn't matter, the riffs were always catchy, the music was groovin, it was an awesome tune to listen to, regardless of which one it was. but then the guitar solo came, and it all went out the window. take dreams for instance. great pop rock tune, and then the solo is filled with simply tricks, rather than melodies.
on the other hand, eddie pulled out some gems, like panama, or jump. those solos jmped out of nowhere and kept the song going, particularly on jump.
but to sum it up, eddie never appealed to me because he seemed to only focus on showing of the amazing things he COULD do with the guitar, in places where he shouldn't. he didn't put these innovative techniques to good use as much as he could have, in my opinion.

i've always been taught, and i firmly believe, that there is no such thing as a wrong note, your just playing it at the wrong time, and this is where it seperates the to for me.

hendrix did the "WRONG" things at all the RIGHT times, almost without fail.

Edddie did the "WRONG" things simply too many times on occasion.

i don't think this argument will ever be settled, seeing as this threads been going for years, but i think sometimes we look at these comparisons only through a technical point of view.

and all of you fellow guitar players out there i think will agree with me, its GREAT to have awesome technique, but playing guitar in a musical sense is about using these techniques in context with the song, which hendrix always managed to do, rather than use them in excess, like eddie did.

so i would have to say that i believe hendrix will always be the greatest rock innovative guitarist over eddie, simply due to his mastery of every aspect of the instrument, not just the tone and technique, but also the musicianship and beauty of the instrument itself.

personally though, as afinally, i believe django reinhardt owned all, haha.

cheers,

G----rant

[Drew77]

I'm gonna have to agree with the last guy, and add that Eddie isn't even that technical, he wasn't even for the time he was famous. I'm not saying he sucks, he is a pretty damn good guitar player, but if you think he even gets close to the kind of technique that any shredder from even the eighties then you have to be deaf. I don't think it's all about technique I'm just saying, yeah maybe he is "technically" better than Hendrix but I would say that Hendrix is a much better player creatively and within the context of a song and I wouldn't use technical ability as an argument when your talking about Van Halen. He was pretty sloppy (at least early on I haven't heard anything recent of his) ecspecailly his tapping. Eddie just took a few techniques that very few ppl had heard before and used them in super excess, now he had the skill to play them fast and played and "dared" to play faster than pretty much anyone before him.

I also would like to add that Zappa was around at the same time as both these guys and is probably on the level with (and in my opinion more interesting) Hendrix. He didn't write music so that he could show off his guitar skills but he had them, look up some of his solo's they tend to be pretty long and are always really kickass, and he could play really fast. Just wanted to throw that out there.

I think the fact that he was interested in such weird and varied music makes many people over look him when talking about great players, also he is probably just as if not more influential as Hendrix, because he has influenced more than just other guitarist. It almost seems to be like a trendy thing to do now to mention Zappa as one of your influences, I hear him mentioned by famous modern musicians in pretty much every genre.

[elklandercc]

Nowadays, nothing that Jimi did is so amazing... but at the time that he did it... It was genius.

Same thing goes for EVH. It was amazing then... But just about every shred head can play what EVH plays... it's nothing mind blowing.

Vai > Satriani > EVH

Stevie Ray > Jimi Hendrix > Eric Clapton

You'll notice that in each of these equations the guitarist to the far left is the one that is the most modern... the one on the far right is the oldest... That's the way it will always be. "The newest thing is the greatest thing"

Personal preference is the name of the game gentleman and opinions vary.

I'm gonna continue that...

Dime>Vai>Satch>EVH

[thebluesbreaker]

van halen was great
hendrix was great
i prefer hendrix as he is more of a songwriter as opposed to musician
learning van halen songs will teach u more but hendrix is also impossible to replicate
van halen technically better
hendrix attitude, soul, fresh sound wat more do u want

[Superhuman]

I'm gonna continue that...

Dime>Vai>Satch>EVH

Man Dime was a good guitar player but he wasn't a patch on any one of those other guys. He brought a new sound and more aggression. Those guys are far more technically accomplised players and Vai and Satch in particular are masters of music theory at the very higest level. Dime mhimself admitted openly to knowing very little about what he played - that in itself made him a great guitarist, just not as good as the others on the list. EVH... his best solos are also leagues ahead of Dimes, no taking anything away from Dime - he was a cool guy and a great guita player.

[jiujitsu_jesus]

My two cents...

Aschleman, this is just my opinion, but with the Vai > Satriani > Van Halen line, I personally would be more inclined to put Satch in the Hendrix line, in front of Stevie Ray. The way I see it, Satch and Hendrix play/played experimental and technically innovative stuff for the sake of musical exploration, where Vai and Van Halen play experimental and technically innovative stuff just for the sake of it. There's also the fact that Satch, like Hendrix, has more of a progressive blues-rock bent, where Vai, like Van Halen (and, for that matter, Ritchie Blackmore), is more influenced by classical music and contemporary pop and rock. But all that style-association stuff is subjective anyway...

On the Van Halen-Hendrix contest, I infinitely prefer Hendrix, not because he had more soul or crafted his songs more carefully, but simply because I love psychedelic bluesy stuff (and I HATE commercial eighties rock :p). Each to their own, and Jimi's style is more my thing than Eddie's - it's as simple as that.

On Dimebag, I don't think he was an inferior player to Satch and Vai at all, just in a different category. He was a hardcore metal guitarist; Satch and Vai are instrumental rock players. It's very hard to compare players across these categories. I've got to say, though, that I much prefer Dime's playing to Eddie's.

Phew! Sorry for the length..

[earthman buck]

Me>bits of sand.

:(

[elklandercc]

Man Dime was a good guitar player but he wasn't a patch on any one of those other guys. He brought a new sound and more aggression. Those guys are far more technically accomplised players and Vai and Satch in particular are masters of music theory at the very higest level. Dime mhimself admitted openly to knowing very little about what he played - that in itself made him a great guitarist, just not as good as the others on the list. EVH... his best solos are also leagues ahead of Dimes, no taking anything away from Dime - he was a cool guy and a great guita player.
I thought the >>>> things was like who inspired who. Hendrix inspired Halen, but Halen didn't sound like Hendrix and so on as the list goes.

Me>bits of sand.

:(

Perhaps you don't practice enough?

[aschleman]

.

I also would like to add that Zappa was around at the same time as both these guys and is probably on the level with (and in my opinion more interesting) Hendrix. He didn't write music so that he could show off his guitar skills but he had them, look up some of his solo's they tend to be pretty long and are always really kickass, and he could play really fast. Just wanted to throw that out there..

So can Prince........ and he plays a billion other instruments just as well... That doesn't make him more INFLUENCIAL than Jimi or Eddie


This thread is never going to end.

[hunter60]

This thread is never going to end.


Yup. Heck, if you're looking at inspirational guitarists, you have to go back to the blues players and the early jazz greats. Zep owes a majority of their stuff to the early blues guys as does Clapton and Richards and Lennon&Harrison and so on and so on....

Even the early cowboy sound sort of begat the sounds of early rock and roll, country and rockabilly, which, of course, served to inspire punk...

The supposed King of Rock and Roll, Elvis, openly did blues and 'race' music.

Chet Atkins was so good that almost every guitarist out there credits him and Chuck Berry for their sound. It's funny but so few invent anything but actually put their own spin on something that's already been done and take it to the next level. Which, in a sense, brings us right back to Jimi or EVH. They were different guitar players with different skills but I think that Eddie heard Jimi and thought "Oh yeah..." and then spun off in his own direction.

All in all, I prefer Jimi because I think he was more 'musical' if that makes any sense. Eddie is a faster player than Jimi, but Jimi could make you ache when you heard what he played.

[aschleman]

Chet Atkins was so good that almost every guitarist out there credits him and Chuck Berry for their sound..

I recall a documentary about a tribute concert for Chuck Berry... Keith Richards was being interviewed and said how most of Chucks riffs and chops are based off of his piano players chops and riffs.... That's why most of Chucks tunes are written in keys that are most commonly associated with piano music instead of standard guitar rock or blues. So everyone has their own inspirations... It's a neveer ending cycle...

I'm like a lot of people because I prefer Jimi and his 3 piece style of blues/psychadaelia... When the Experience was in the pocket they were as good as any band out there. Mitchell, Redding, and Jimi were three dudes that could get down.

Along with that. I've never liked nor listened to anything that Van Halen has ever played. I respect it for what it is... and I respect him as a guitarist but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[hunter60]

I'm like a lot of people because I prefer Jimi and his 3 piece style of blues/psychadaelia... When the Experience was in the pocket they were as good as any band out there. Mitchell, Redding, and Jimi were three dudes that could get down.

Along with that. I've never liked nor listened to anything that Van Halen has ever played. I respect it for what it is... and I respect him as a guitarist but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

I couldn't agree with you more. Like you, I respect EVH for what he did but I am not a big fan. I thought they kinda shot their, well you know, with their first album. I don't think I've actually played it in 10 years. But I have Hendrix cranking at least once a week or so.

[PlatonicShred]

The question is easy: Eddie Van Halen is better than Jimi Hendrix as a guitar player. Whichever way you want to spin it, in terms of guitar prowess, be it soulful playing or virtuoso lines--EVH has got Hendrix beat.

If you want to argue over intangible willy nillies like 'who had the most 'it' onstage' or whatever then I can't help you. That's subjective.

Guitar prowess, however, is far easier.

Check out How Do I know When It's Love by VH to hear some soulful playing.

Ain't Talkin Bout Love
Little Dreamer
Feel Your Love Tonight

All examples of soulful playing, even the last one which is a goofy song has a masterful solo that perfectly conveys the song's feel.

Just because Jimi played blues and bent notes all the time doesn't really make him the most soulful guy around. If anything, I think Jimi could have been so much more than what he was in terms of lead playing. His rhythm playing is what really changed Rock music.

Eddie just wins--he has the entire package, whereas Hendrix had the soul but little else beyond that. Eddie has soul and can be funky (check out Outta Love Again on VH II for proof) when he wants to be, and he also can hang in terms of technique--even though he isn't the best.

This doesn't piss on Jimi Hendrix. It's just a fact, Eddie came out after Hendrix and was just a better guitar player. Maybe people like Jimi better--which is why he is always at the top of polls, but that doesn't change the fact that one is a more accomplished guitarist.

Even in terms of influence Eddie and Jimi are at the very least, equal. But influence isn't the same as 'guitar playing.' Chuck Berry had a huge influence, but that doesn't make him a particularly great guitar player.

Oh, and aschleman, how can you hate everything Van Halen has ever done if you haven't listened to it?

Maybe it's just the wording, but sometimes I find people just diss other players because they have their current heroes and won't have that perfect image shattered.

I think a lot of artists' words have really turned people off to virtuoso playing. They hear a lot of guitar players who are not capable of playing at extreme speeds, and so what they do is diss those who can. So all they do is associate fast playing with soulessness--when it's just not true. And their fans regurgitate this drivel and never really listen to these guitarists with a truly open ear.

So. Just wondering if that's the case here.

[ericthecableguy]

What i love about van halen is that no matter what he sounds like van halen. No one can sound like him.
Ya, he had a few dud solo's, but meh.
He had a full awareness of his tone, and how to use it. I really prefer him to Hendrix. I could care less who inspired who, I don't think that should even be part of the argument.

[jiujitsu_jesus]

PlatonicShred, I certainly agree that people dismiss newer musicians because they are so attached to their current or older heroes, but I think that the association of shred with soullessness is not at all unjustified. While there are many shred pioneers out there who have soulful, tasteful playing styles and good, earthy appeal, there are countless others who are all about exhibiting technique for the sake of it - while this can sometimes be good listening, it's little wonder that the average listener doesn't give players like this a chance with people like Michael Angelo Batio around.

For me, Eddie van Halen does not fall into the "tasteless wanker" category, but nor does he quite fit into the "tasteful innovator" group. He certainly revolutionised guitar technique, but I don't think he had many cogent musical ideas to express with his techniques. In my opinion, it was people like Steve Morse, Joe Satriani and Randy Rhoads who did that.

[aschleman]

He certainly revolutionised guitar technique, but I don't think he had many cogent musical ideas to express with his techniques. In my opinion, it was people like Steve Morse, Joe Satriani and Randy Rhoads who did that.

I closely associate EVH to Kurt Cobain....... Why? Well you see, many many many people out there that are uneducated in the late 80's and early 90's music scene seem to think that Nirvana and Kurt Cobain "invented" the grunge music scene... Which is entirely false... It just so happened that Nirvana was the only band at the time that was creating something commercial enough for MTV to latch on and spoon feed to the general public... sky rocketing Nirvana and launching a myth that they were the first.... the were the first to SELL OUT.... not the first to create...

Van Halen is in the same category.... Joe Satriani and Randy Rhoads were doing their thing at the same time... Van Halen just so happened to be more commercially ready... therefore getting all the airplay and being labeled "the first shred guitarist"...

Jimi Hendrix wasn't the first to do what he was doing either... and I'd never claim that... However he was the first that was combining blues and psychadaelia ... I've seen many many many documentaries on Jimi and they've all mentioned that while he wasn't the first one to play electric music... he was the first one to play very very loudly... He was quoted saying that he wanted the guy in the back of the 200,000 spectator festival to feel like he's in the front row... I think he blazed a lot of ground in more ways than just music.... but also showmanship...

I look at that as a lot of other reasons why Hendrix was more to music than Eddie Van Halen...

That and Jimi played a Strat...

[PlatonicShred]

Have you seen EVH live in concert? The guy is every bit a showman as Jimi Hendrix was. And he is more consistent than Jimi ever was--as Jimi was too splashed a third of the time to give a good performance. ((it's a fact, read up on it)) Not to say that EVH was never drunk or anything during a performance--but he always gave a pretty good one. Hendrix did not.

You say Jimi blended blues and psychedelia. EVH blended rock and virtuoso jazz/classical lines--what's your point? Hell, eruption's tapping part is taken straight from Vivaldi. I would think that blues and psychedelia are easier to combine than virtuoso stylings and rock. Not only that, but EVH also took the whammy bar to insane extremes. Sure, Jimi divebombed every now and again, but Eddie is the one who really made it happen in terms of whammy effects. And he also helped design the Floyd Rose.

Again, Jimi also wasn't the first to play very loudly either. A lot of his contemporaries were experimenting with similar things. The same thing you used to dismiss Van Halen can be applied to Hendrix---he was more commercial ready and bombastic than others who were equally talented than he was.

EVH also played a strat, it was just a modified one. Jimi didn't have the same impact upon guitar design and whatnot that Eddie did, either.

[PlatonicShred]

And another thing, EVH had plenty of musical ideas he expressed with his new techniques:

Check out Women in Love for a beautiful application of his tapped harmonics. Check out Cathedral for his experiments with the volume knob.
Check out Take your Whiskey Home for some nice bluesy acoustic guitar riffing.
Check out Spanish Fly for the VH style coming through nice and clear on acoustic.
Check out the cover of You're No Good for amazing applications of the whammy bar to make the guitar almost talk at points.
And lastly Check out Running with the Devil to realize that EVH was the FIRST guy to bring the loud, distorted, major third into hard rock---he did it by slightly detuning the g string to prevent the unpleasant buzzing sound. ((try tuning your guitar as normal, then kicking up the gain and volume, now play G major on the top four strings---it will sound like dog crap, guarenteed))
Check out Unchained for nothing short of amazing rhythm guitar while he is singing no less.


Long story, short? EVH covered a ton of ground with his new techniques and redefined electric guitar while doing so. These claims that he didn't 'say' or 'do' anything with his technique are just false--I'm sorry, they are. Jimi Hendrix brought the 7#9 chord to rock, was a really funky rhythm player and was insanely bombastic.

And also, there's nothing wrong with being 'commercial' as it were. That's actually very important, to me at least. It takes skill to digest the minutes of an underground style of music and keep true to the original style while making it accessible. If it was so easy to 'sell out' and 'go commercial' in bringing grunge to the masses---all those other bands besides Nirvana would have done it.

Most of the time, the underground stuff is not that good. For example, the Chemical Brothers techno versus most other techno.

[aschleman]

Jimi Hendrix wasn't the first to do what he was doing either... and I'd never claim that...


That and Jimi played a Strat...


.............

I was joking about the Strat part... it's sarcasm... It's not as funny when I have to explain it... especially after you so politely explained to me that EVH played a strat too..... which I already knew... It was a poor example of a Stratocaster as well... But yes, he did make it sound oh so wicked...

Tapping is flair... a novelty... Atleast it is now a days... every kid that picks up a gutiar just wants to learn how to tap... EVH brought it to the masses... I wouldn't say he created it. It was probably more of an adaptation...

I was born in 83... so no, I've never seen Van Halen live... and honestly, you couldn't pay me to go see them.

I can already tell by your input in the "resolution to speed" forum that you seem to think that technicallity trumps creativity in the realm of musicianship.... and there's where I will tell you that just false. You can teach any kid off the street how to play a fast lick or two... you can show him how to play fast... You can't show a kid how to play with passion and feeling. It's something that you either have or don't have... EVH didn't have it.......... I'm not going to get into a long debate about it so I'll just say that your opinions on the subject of Eddie Van Halen are yours and there they will stay...

If it weren't for guys like Clapton and Hendrix.... Van Halen never would have picked up a guitar and we wouldn't be having this online chat via forum...

You take the technical guitarist... I'll take the soulful guitarist.

I'd rather listen to a human play a gutiar than a machine any day of the week... but that's just me... I have a pulse and I breath air... and I feel pain...

Jeff Beck>Van Halen..... either way

[Kevin Taylor]

>>Tapping is flair... a novelty...

grrrr...... http://s93744050.onlinehome.us/smileys/grumpy.gif
Not if you do it right.

[PlatonicShred]

>>Tapping is flair... a novelty...

grrrr...... http://s93744050.onlinehome.us/smileys/grumpy.gif
Not if you do it right.


My thoughts exactly. People just dismiss a lot of techniques outright because they haven't mastered them or even studied them in-depth. As I said, EVH in Eruption is playing Vivaldi-inspired lines. The solo is making a statement, that now these piano lines that were once very difficult on guitar can now be played with ease. The possibilities with tapping, just as with sweep picking, are many.

[PlatonicShred]

'I can already tell by your input in the "resolution to speed" forum that you seem to think that technicallity trumps creativity in the realm of musicianship.... and there's where I will tell you that just false. You can teach any kid off the street how to play a fast lick or two... you can show him how to play fast... You can't show a kid how to play with passion and feeling. It's something that you either have or don't have... EVH didn't have it.......... I'm not going to get into a long debate about it so I'll just say that your opinions on the subject of Eddie Van Halen are yours and there they will stay...'


Whatever assumption you are making here about me is not true. You seem to be of the mindset that technique and creativity cannot go hand in hand. You don't think that what EVH did with the whammy bar was creative? With tapped harmonics? The two are not mutually exclusive. It takes technique many times to be creative. Think about it, if Jimi Hendrix hadn't practiced the blues scale, he wouldn't have been able to be creative with it. Same goes for EVH and many other guitarists.

And yes, you can teach someone to play with 'passion.' All you have to do is show them the different types of cadences and teach them about vibrato. Voila', emotional expression.

It's fine if you think that Hendrix is more soulful or whatever---but when you start trying to say EVH is not creative or didn't have any musical ideas to express and the like, it's just not true.

[aschleman]

It's fine if you think that Hendrix is more soulful or whatever---but when you start trying to say EVH is not creative or didn't have any musical ideas to express and the like, it's just not true.


It's not true because you're the authority that depicts what is musicla ideas and what is creativity? Is that why it's not true?

[elklandercc]

'I can already tell by your input in the "resolution to speed" forum that you seem to think that technicallity trumps creativity in the realm of musicianship.... and there's where I will tell you that just false. You can teach any kid off the street how to play a fast lick or two... you can show him how to play fast... You can't show a kid how to play with passion and feeling..
But in the speed thread, you dismissed Zakk Wylde as a Virtuoso because he couldn't play as fast some other guitarists.

[PlatonicShred]

But in the speed thread, you dismissed Zakk Wylde as a Virtuoso because he couldn't play as fast some other guitarists.


Fancy that, I dismissed Zakk Wylde as a virtuoso because he simply could not play as fast as a virtuoso should be able. That doesn't mean I think that speed is all that matters. The term virtuoso is not something to just bestow on every guitarist we happen to like. For example, I LOVE Angus Young and think he's an awesome player, but is he a virtuoso? Nope. Not even close.

Zakk Wylde also doesn't demonstrate a lot of melodic invention when he is playing fast, yet another reason I wouldn't consider him a virtuoso. What he plays are licks other players made first--but those other players maybe used them 20% of the time, whereas Zakk's fast-playing repotoire consists of them.

The argument you're making against me is like this:

A: Man, Joe Honkytonk down the block sure is good, I think he's a virtuoso.
B: Well, no, he's nowhere near as good as Franz Liszt or even George Gershwin. He's a good player though.
A: All you care about is speed! Speed!

[elklandercc]

Nah, it went a lot more like this:

I've seen many videos of Zakk Wylde playing unplugged or with an acoustic and he plays pretty cleanly, why people think he's overrated while Billy Joe Armstrong (or whoever) prounces around like he's God is beyond me.

Also, Alexi Lahio was saying in an interview that a lot of guitarists these days are super fast but can be super lame. I agree, I don't listen to a whole lot of Petrucci because he plays fast through lots of his songs and it sounds like one long solo and I just get turned off and change cd's. I do like his newest cd though.

I've seen his acoustic live sets, and I have to disagree. When he gets really fast his alternate picking breaks down and it mixes between legato. Not only that, but the licks he plays at those speeds almost sound like they are just 'stock fast licks.' Some of the notes and whatnot don't really go with the underlying progression, maybe that's due to his heavy EVH influence.

Listen to the solo on Stillborn to hear what I'm talking about.

Not to say that Zakk Wylde can't play, but I wouldn't call him a virtuoso.

Were talking fast in general, not fast picking hand so mixing between legato and alt. picking is irrelevant when talking about speed. I agree about the "stock fast licks" because a lot of his acoustic is fast scales. I do disagree about him not being a virtuoso though. He might play alot of stuff drop tuned and low on the neck, but listen to him play Sabbath songs during an Ozzy tour, the only person who could play them better than that would be Rhoads (R.I.P.) himself.

Who do you consider virtuosos?

Firstly, I didn't say you were a virtuoso if you could play at 180bpm+, I said you were knocking on virtuosity's door. Virtuosity is not the same as being a full-blown virtuoso.

If you want to take the real definition of virtuoso, there are very few guitar virtuosos---and even Yngwie wouldn't be one, because he cannot read music. A virtuoso is someone with NO musical weakness whatsoever on their chosen instrument.

Virtuosity is having some of the characteristics of a virtuoso--in this case having somewhat the speed of a virtuoso.


Second, with regard to Zakk Wylde--actually if you are talking about real speed, it is important that Zakk Wylde be consistent in his playing. As I said before, he cannot sustain the high speeds without resorting to legato to give the appearance of keeping the same tempo.

In that solo, he starts off pretty fast but then can't keep the steady stream going and so he stops alternate picking---the result is that the line still sounds like it is flowing at the same tempo when in fact his playing becomes MUCH slower overall.

Ask any professional guitar player about how hard it is to alternate pick at 180 versus how hard it is to legato at 180 and they will tell you that the former is harder because it requires both hands to be coordinated.


As to who I regard as virtuosos, there are not many. Going to Berklee you're exposed to a lot of brilliant musical minds on every instrument, and you start to see that it's not just speed or technique--even though its a huge part--that determines this quality. I think John Petrucci is a virtuoso, an all-round talent that has no real weakness. Al Di Meola is in the same vein, even though he refuses to use more practical techniques for some things.

A virtuoso is "Someone with an outstanding technical ability at singing or playing an instrument." If you think Al Di Meola or Petrucci have no music weakness, you are very worng. I'm sure if you were to ask them in aninterview I have no doubts they would throw a list at you. Don't get me wrong, they are 2 of the best guitarists that will ever live, as well as Satch and Vai. But you have to admit that Zakk fits under that category. A lot of guitarists use Satch, Vai, Di Meola, or Petrucci to rate other guitarists and I think that wrong.

And with the speed thing, again, its speed in general, not strickly picking hand. Sure, everyone knows legato is much easier that alt picking which is why a lot of shredders use it. Listen to some Racer X and hear Gilbert's blazing fast alt. picking and legato. A classic example is Superhero's (Jolly, your the man), in the 2nd he goes from alt. picking to sweep to legato at blazing fast speeds and keeps up his pace. Just because some parts of the solo would be eaier to play than the other (to him, not us hahaha) doesn't mean its not fast playing.

They don't have any real weakness as compared to the average player. Just listen to them play. Sure they'll say 'I have a harder time with X and Y' but that doesn't mean they do X weakly, as a matter of fact, most of the time they excel at whatever X is.

And again, if you want to go on PURE speed i.e. legato and alt picking whatever--Wylde still does not make the cut. A legato run from Paul Gilbert versus one from Zakk Wylde is a lot faster. The reason why I discounted Zakk Wylde is that he uses legato to keep the flow going, which gives his lines the appearance all being played at an even tempo with the same note durations when they are not. That's all.

And aschleman, no one is forcing you to read or post to this particular thread, why insult it?


...

Now I'm gonna let these threads go because Jon already gave 1 warning to people who were bickering.

[PlatonicShred]

I don't know what you proved with that, I clearly upheld my previous contention with my words on the other forum:

'Firstly, I didn't say you were a virtuoso if you could play at 180bpm+, I said you were knocking on virtuosity's door. Virtuosity is not the same as being a full-blown virtuoso.

If you want to take the real definition of virtuoso, there are very few guitar virtuosos---and even Yngwie wouldn't be one, because he cannot read music. A virtuoso is someone with NO musical weakness whatsoever on their chosen instrument.

Virtuosity is having some of the characteristics of a virtuoso--in this case having somewhat the speed of a virtuoso.'

Where I say that speed is just ONE aspect of being a virtuoso, therefore implying that speed is not all that matters to me. Quot Erat Demonstratum.

[aschleman]

Make a point without being argumentative already

it's getting annoying.

[PlatonicShred]

Make a point without being argumentative already

it's getting annoying.

I did make a point: EVH is the better guitar player. That was the beginning of this exchange. I stated why I thought that, and people responded to me, and I responded in turn.

Again, no one is making you read or post to this thread--why be mean?

[aschleman]

IEVH is the better guitar player.


That's your opinion... we've established that.

I'm not being mean. I just don't see why everyone of your posts has to blantantly attack the opinions of others... I think you've made your opinion very clear. I would rather read other peoples opinions than keep reading yours over and over.

This thread has been blessed with very understanding people that can share opinions freely... All I ask is that you atleast give people their opinion without trying to negate it and call it false becasue in the end an opinion is an opinion... You're not an authority figure on guitarists by anymeans... You don't say who is better than who... It's a choice that people make based on their own musical tastes... So take your opinion that EVH is the better gutiarist and leave it at that... This is suppose to be a forum to share your opinion... not argue everyone elses opinions...

Don't ripple the calm waters of GT because you feel like we're trying to prove you wrong... We're simply telling you our O.P.I.N.I.O.N.S.

[PlatonicShred]

I'm letting you have your opinions. I stated awhile ago that if you want to say Jimi is the more soulful player--fine. All I did was point out your false statements: That EVH didn't express much musically and the like. Those are false, whether you want to admit it or not. If it comes down to a matter of personal taste, hey, that's subjective.

But don't start digging into a guitar player based on claims that are not true. That's all we've been going back and forth about. Me illustrating that EVH has done a lot of the things you have said he has not done.

[Lordathestrings]

Warning: this thread is perilously close to lock-down.

[elklandercc]

That's your opinion... we've established that.

I'm not being mean. I just don't see why everyone of your posts has to blantantly attack the opinions of others... I think you've made your opinion very clear. I would rather read other peoples opinions than keep reading yours over and over.

This thread has been blessed with very understanding people that can share opinions freely... All I ask is that you atleast give people their opinion without trying to negate it and call it false becasue in the end an opinion is an opinion... You're not an authority figure on guitarists by anymeans... You don't say who is better than who... It's a choice that people make based on their own musical tastes... So take your opinion that EVH is the better gutiarist and leave it at that... This is suppose to be a forum to share your opinion... not argue everyone elses opinions...

Don't ripple the calm waters of GT because you feel like we're trying to prove you wrong... We're simply telling you our O.P.I.N.I.O.N.S.

What does opinions stand for? :rolleyes:

[magicninja]

The last series of posts is exactly why I don't get involved in these kinds of threads. The two guitarists we're totally different. It's irrelevent who is better than who. I strongly advise everyone to stay away from threads like these. They breed bannings.

[Drew77]

I think you are all forgetting one thing about all of this.

You want to know who feels the music more when their on stage. I just gotta say one thing.


>>>>Acid


:P

Hendrix wins

[g----rant]

I'm gonna continue that...

Dime>Vai>Satch>EVH


woooooo dime...that man WAS undeerrated! maybe coz he never really put his outta this world technique on display in pantera recordings. i found it funny the way he played the entire MAB dvd's worth of shred in a lot of their shows, that man was a true legend!

but i'm gonna have to say on the hendrix/EVH issue, i gave my opinion before, and like every other post here it sparked a rebuttal from another member. so can't we all agree to disagree? or put the two in celebrity deathmatch?