Pent Box

[basics]

It occurs to me that people in this forum look down on the pentatonic way of playing. I remember doing a search and seeing some guy putting down another for playing using the 'basic pentatonic scales' and a couple other times when players aren't considered worthy guitarists for sticking to the box. I think that's crap. It may be considered 'old school' and blah blah blah but when it comes down to it, going outside the box only articulates another style of playing. One can play just as fast a riff in the box as another can working a complete minor scale or diminished etc. You can't argue that. Folks spend their entire lives getting box riffs right fast, as fast as any minor shred riff. You can shred too using a pent scale, not necessarily always in the box but doable nonetheless. One might argue its limitations theory wise. Who cares. All anybody ever does is practice a couple riffs til its light speed anyway, no matter what complex or non complex scale it happens to be in.

Its true that its not common to find shredding done in the box, but all I'm looking for is a bit of respect when it comes down to the way folk play. I happen to think that if the next hero that is to come along happens to play in the box and is glorified by the media, all you folk would all of a sudden start whipping out the pent riffs again and maybe start putting down the minor scale way of playing. Its all relative.

[noticingthemistake]

Originally posted by basics
I happen to think that if the next hero that is to come along happens to play in the box and is glorified by the media, all you folk would all of a sudden start whipping out the pent riffs again and maybe start putting down the minor scale way of playing. Its all relative.

Doubtful. To me music has very little to do with scales and more to do with getting the right expression out in what you play. If it's through using the pentatonic scales cool. My problem with the pent is it only embraces the consonant sound, but there must be some dissonance. Playing only consonant notes such as pents always sounds boring to my ear. The only time I see pents in my playing is when I need alittle lick in harmony, but not bold enough to conflict with the melody. What I suggest is be experimental, try different scales, explore different sounds. Pents get a bad name when that's all a player uses.

[TheDirt]

I respect the pentatonic box... SRV played the hell out of it, and his playing is proof enough that the blues scale can be just as fiery as any other scale, used properly. The problem with the pentatonic box is that it's usually the first thing guitarists learn, and they suck at using it, which gives the scale a bad name instead of the player.

[basics]

It's all anybody used before the 80s, am I correct in saying this?

[TheDirt]

No, you're WAY wrong in fact. Jazz was around way before the 80s, lol.

[finger_cruncher]

Every scale is good in moderation. That's the key point: moderation.

[Azrael]

actually the worst decade for music was the 80´s - before that time there were heaps of bands and musicians who experimented with everything imaginable. just check some bands like King Crimson, YES, Gentle Giant, etc.
claiming that all the players back then where just noodling on the pent is just plain stupid.

[basics]

You missed my point, there, bigboy. I was saying that in pre-80s rock, the majority of the soloing was done with the pentatonic scale, and it was good. I said nothing about noodling. And its true - pentatonic, 3 finger soloing.

[Azrael]

those bands ARE pre-80´s rock

[basics]

Yea true enough. I've only heard a little bit of King Crimson and none of the others. I'll have to check em out.

[Pantallica1]

I agree with noticingthemistake. You need seperate sounds instead of the same things over and over.

Pentatonics aren't bad, look at Shawn Lane for example, but when someone uses them badly, look at Kirk Hamster for example, it sounds just plain bad.

Like chris mood said, SRV did it, and did it well, but when players ONLY learn the pent scales, and use bad pull-off and hammer-on licks, it just gets annoying.

[basics]

Maybe a lot of beginner players start off with minor scales and such and never really tap into pentatonic or listen to artists who use them successfully. My group of artists or friends that I hung with starting out, we were really into the classic stuff, nearly nothing modern, so pent riffs were really influencial. Thing I found too, after some years, was that you could easily turn the pent into a minor, major, diminished etc scale by punching in the inbetween notes. It's just that the pent was the basis of my soloing and I went from there. As a beginner Hendrix was my main influence so you've gotta see what I mean. Only thing I missed out on and am working on right now are the huge arpeggio sweep picking techniques and tapping. I don't think I'll ever be into tapping, but sweep picking for sure.

[TheDirt]

Quote: Like chris mood said, SRV did it, and did it well, but when players ONLY learn the pent scales, and use bad pull-off and hammer-on licks, it just gets annoying.

Hmmm, I thought that I said that!

[TheWizard]

A perfect example is Toni Iommi, I love this guy for his riffs, but his solos are all the same - minor pentatonic very ocassionaly with the occasional major sixth added

however staight up rock and/or roll usually requires nothing more than pure pentatonic to sound good, thats why Sabbath/Zeppelin solos work so well

[noticingthemistake]

Sometimes you only see what you want to see. Pentatonics do pop up everywhere, but so do other scales. I myself, have not thought before playing a single note what scale I'm going to use before writing any music. Sure alot of familiar ones do pop out, but I am not concerned with the use of any in particular. To me, music isn't putting together a jig-saw puzzle of scales and chords. To me it's progressing from one sound to another in whatever manner compels me. I would probably kick my own arse if I suddenly decided that my judge became anything other than what I want to hear. I'm not saying throw out all theory, scales, and whatnot. What I'm suggesting is to create with what music actually is, sound. And be experimental, don't say well here's an A minor chord so I should use the A minor pent. Keep the pent scale in your back pocket but be open minded to what else is out there.

Remember scales are nothing more than tonality, meaning each and different ones set different moods, texture, or feelings to what your using them over. Pents are only one tonality. If you only use one, your start to sound repetitive.

[Pantallica1]

Originally posted by TheDirt
Quote: Like chris mood said, SRV did it, and did it well, but when players ONLY learn the pent scales, and use bad pull-off and hammer-on licks, it just gets annoying.

Hmmm, I thought that I said that!

*Editor's Note*

Like TheDirt said, SRV did it, and did it well, but when players ONLY learn the pent scales, and use bad pull-off and hammer-on licks, it just gets annoying.

Thank you.