Is this perfect Pitch thing Real?

[Cody_King]

http://www.perfectpitch.com

I have seen it in magazines for along time, has anyone bought this and if they have dose it work like it says? usually stuff like this is bull? could anyone give me some opinions.

thanks.

[kronborg]

Hmm. It sound a little TOO fantastic to me...

And remember true perfection has to be imperfect ;)

[beginner]

I don´t believe that it is so perfect. Better download Ear Master Program, because they´re not claiming how perfect their program is, but it trains all different aspects of an good ear. It´s a limited version(40 days), but somehow I managed to have it for over 100 days now.

http://www.earmaster.com

[hairbndrckr]

Also you can check this site on ear training exercises from Schmange...

[noticingthemistake]

Oh boy, the memories. The discussion that brought me into the forum. But yeah it's true, you can develop it through that program but don't think your gonna get it without work. Once you get it, he tells you it can take up to a year to develop it and that's doing it 15-30 minutes a day.

You guys got the wrong idea on perfect, it doesn't make you perfect. Perfect pitch is just a name of a skill where you can name any pitch at will. Earmaster doesn't train you to a level of perfect pitch, or better "absolute pitch".

If you want it, you don't have to buy burge's course. Go to http://www.Prolobe.com, there you can train for perfect pitch. It doesn't cost a dime either.

[noticingthemistake]

Originally posted by hairbndrckr
Also you can check this site on ear training exercises from Schmange...

That's me, dewd. LOL ;)

[beginner]

Originally posted by noticingthemistake
Oh boy, the memories. The discussion that brought me into the forum. But yeah it's true, you can develop it through that program but don't think your gonna get it without work. Once you get it, he tells you it can take up to a year to develop it and that's doing it 15-30 minutes a day.

You guys got the wrong idea on perfect, it doesn't make you perfect. Perfect pitch is just a name of a skill where you can name any pitch at will. Earmaster doesn't train you to a level of perfect pitch, or better "absolute pitch".

If you want it, you don't have to buy burge's course. Go to http://www.Prolobe.com, there you can train for perfect pitch. It doesn't cost a dime either.

So I´m a bit confused now. What is missing in Ear Master that it doesn't train you to a level of perfect pitch? And what is better on the site you recommend?

By the way, how much time a day should I spend on Ear Training? I do about 30 minutes a day, but nevertheless it develops VERY slowly, but I think this is common(isn´t it?) and continue practicing.

[Cryptic Excretions]

I remember one time I saw this ad that suposedly made it on the news it was so good. It seemed to be saying they had a way to master the guitar that took a month and nothing more. Now, they might have enough info to keep you reading for a month, but to master in a month? It's an advertising gimmick. It might do the trick, slow or fast, but none the less it's not what it's crocked up to be. That's where the risk comes in, you buy it and you might get screwed or it might just be the same as everything else. I wouldn't buy it myself, but that's just me. It's a bit too infomercial for me.

[noticingthemistake]

Originally posted by beginner
So I´m a bit confused now. What is missing in Ear Master that it doesn't train you to a level of perfect pitch? And what is better on the site you recommend?

Having perfect pitch is like having someone go over and play any one note on the guitar, and you would be able to name that note. Even tell if it's alittle sharp or alittle flat. Even have someone tell you sing a G, and you could sing a G in tune. Without any reference to another note, like playing A then play another note and name the second. Earmaster covers only the last in interval identification, where it plays 2 notes. Tells you the first, then questions you on the interval of the second note. That's not perfect pitch, it's relative pitch.

Prolobe.com actually trains you on perfect pitch, playing notes and having you name them. Start with 2, then once you get good at 2, then 3, and so on. Until you can name all 12, you have perfect pitch. Yes at first it is alittle relative pitch, the high one is D and the low one is C. That eventually breaks down as more notes are added.

By the way, how much time a day should I spend on Ear Training? I do about 30 minutes a day, but nevertheless it develops VERY slowly, but I think this is common(isn´t it?) and continue practicing.

Developing slowly is common at first, the reason is you have never had to really use your ear. Of course you listen, but physically and mentally achieving skills is something new to it right now. 30 minutes a day sounds good. The ear only learns so much at one time. It's extremely fragile and if you push it too hard you'll just ruin it rather than improve it. I'd say try to do a level on each exercise a day. If you pass move on to another exercise. If you fail the first time, it's ok to try it again, but if you fail a second time. I'd just try again the next day. There's other things to work on. Remember it's not how fast you develop that counts it's that you developed. You can probably look back to when you first started and see that you have gotten more skillful.

[noticingthemistake]

Originally posted by Cryptic Excretions
It might do the trick, slow or fast, but none the less it's not what it's crocked up to be. That's where the risk comes in, you buy it and you might get screwed or it might just be the same as everything else. I wouldn't buy it myself, but that's just me. It's a bit too infomercial for me.

Honestly I would compare (and this is someone who has it) buying burge's courses as buying any book or video on guitar exercises. Basically the package is a step by step list of exercises that work you up to the ability, either relative or perfect pitch. The relative pitch is excellent, that's the reason I got it. I have perfect pitch, but it was free. His relative pitch course is better than any college course in ear training, hands down. But then again it's like 300 bux, if they're not selling them together anymore.

[The Ace]

So if I wanna do perfect pitch with one of these things, Prolobe is the best one?

I've been working on relative pitch for awhile but I really wanna know if these things do work. (low cost preferably)

[noticingthemistake]

Originally posted by Rrhoads154
So if I wanna do perfect pitch with one of these things, Prolobe is the best one?

Best? I dunno. Free and worth a try? Yeah.

I've been working on relative pitch for awhile but I really wanna know if these things do work. (low cost preferably)


Yeah burge's course does work. I think you may be thinking he's magically gonna to put something in your ear and wahh-la you got it. Basically with the relative course, it's starts out with the interval of a Perfect 5th. One of the exercises is singing all twelve notes up and down a perfect 5th. He also explain the correct way to spell them. Then once you think you know it, you take the test. The test is he plays a note on the piano and tells you to sing a perfect 5th above or below. Then he plays the right note and you check yourself. You can only miss 3 to pass and he goes through every perfect fifth. tests are about 25 minutes long. Point is if you pass you definitely know it. Once you pass you go on to different intervals, then chords, then chord progressions, and more. One of the last tests is to listen to a Bach piece and completely rewrite it without an instrument. It definitely builds your ear up like no other, and you can move at your own pace and you get an email address so you contact a support specialist if you have any questions, free. It's worth it in my opinion, but it's your choice whether it's for you. But that's what it is about, man.

[beginner]

Originally posted by noticingthemistake


Earmaster covers only the last in interval identification, where it plays 2 notes. Tells you the first, then questions you on the interval of the second note. That's not perfect pitch, it's relative pitch.



So if I do the interval exercises without the first note help(I actually did this with all exercises I´ve done till now) I can also develop perfect pitch with Earmaster, right?

By the way, how much time a day should I spend on Ear Training? I do about 30 minutes a day, but nevertheless it develops VERY slowly, but I think this is common(isn´t it?) and continue practicing.

Originally posted by noticingthemistake

30 minutes a day sounds good. The ear only learns so much at one time. It's extremely fragile and if you push it too hard you'll just ruin it rather than improve it. I'd say try to do a level on each exercise a day.

I tried it out: I need half an our for one level on the first 2 interval exercises [So15 minutes for one].
The first one(I´m at level 14) I can only do if I search the played notes on the guitar, otherwise I don´t hear which interval is bigger. Same with the second(level 10).

So if I would do one level of all exercises i would probably need one and a half hour, and that would be too much time a day spending for Ear Training, wouldn´t it?

[noticingthemistake]

So if I do the interval exercises without the first note help(I actually did this with all exercises I´ve done till now) I can also develop perfect pitch with Earmaster, right?

Ah. So your able to know exactly what the first note is without any reference?? Like using your guitar to find the notes, or having a note sound when you click on the fretboard. If so, go to melodic dictation, exercise setup, tones = 1, Scale = chromatic, max interval = octave, ambit = octave, and no boxes checked, and don't aid yourself with your guitar or any other instrument. If you can get at least 95% of 20 questions right, you have perfect pitch.

Earmaster can aid in developing the skill of absolute pitch, but it misses the bottom half of the training. Melodic dictation catches it right around the middle of the training because you can't name the notes if your don't know what they sound like. It doesn't train you on each individual pitch itself until you know them. Just on there relation to one another. Great program for developing relative pitch, but not absolute pitch.

There is free software out there for perfect pitch, such as Ear tune and Ear test. I think they even have a program out there that goes by Burge's course, but it isn't free.

On the interval and chord exercises, you shouldn't be using your guitar; that's cheating man. ;) The training part of it is knowing what interval it is or which is bigger just by hearing it. Not checking it on your guitar.

On interval comparison, the interval that is bigger is the one that has more distance between the first note played and the second note played. Try humming them at first, if you have difficulty. When you try to hum the interval you should feel in your voice which went the farthest distance.

On interval identification, in the exercise setup click the box that says "show the first tone". The goal of this exercise is to learn what interval the second note is from the first. SO the first note should be a given. There's no need to name the first note, even if you have perfect pitch.

If it takes you more than a half an hour, it's cool to stop there and continue another time. Your right an hour and half is alittle long on ear training. If I may suggest, if it takes you a long time to get through the exercises. Try at least doing one interval excerise, one chord exercise, and one rhythm exercise a day. So a plan would work out to be.

Day 1:
Interval comparison
Chord identification
Rhythm reading

Day 2:
Interval identification
Chord inversions
Rhythm imitation

Day 3:
Scale identification (scales are made from intervals so...)
Chord progressions
Rhythm correction

Then repeat. Throw melodic dictation in there whenever you get the chance, or you sub out one and do this instead. Melodic is actually all the skills above put to use, think of that when you try that exercise.

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 02-10-2004 at 01:58 PM]

[beginner]

Thanks man, that plan could really help. With the scales exercises I don´t know if I should do them, because I only know Pentatonic and the Major Scale.
One Question how to do the exercises: Interval Identification: Does it matter if guess it´s a major 3rd but it is a major 4th, and I correct my guess before I really give my answer, which is possible in EarMaster, or should I know it the first time?
And my last question: If I want to train also perfect pitch with Ear Tune( I haven´t found that one yet) is it Ok if I just add 10 minutes to my EarMaster exercises?

[noticingthemistake]

Originally posted by beginner
One Question how to do the exercises: Interval Identification: Does it matter if guess it´s a major 3rd but it is a major 4th, and I correct my guess before I really give my answer, which is possible in EarMaster, or should I know it the first time?

Yeah. As long as your not hitting "your answer" and checking to see if it is the same as the question. Try not to guess per say, think a second about it, then make your choice. Hum it if you don't know the answer the first time, that will help you understand the range of the intervals. If you get one wrong, play it again to see and recognize your mistake. About the scales, I would still do them. They have a certian tonality that is very important to learn. Just try at first distinquishing between the major and minor scale. Then add to it the harmonic and melodic minor. You should at least know the differences between those four.

And my last question: If I want to train also perfect pitch with Ear Tune( I haven´t found that one yet) is it Ok if I just add 10 minutes to my EarMaster exercises?

Yeah sure. A good thing to do that will keep your ear in shape is by doing one (either earmaster or eartune) earlier in the day, and doing the other later in the day. On ear tune, I'd suggest starting with clean guitar. The timbre is more universal, and only start with two notes at first. Then add one at a time once you become comfortable.

Link for Eartune (http://www.harmony-central.com/Software/Windows/eartune.html)

Tip with eartune: Listen to how each note is different, not that one is higher or lower, but something else that seems different about them. I'm going to write something in the tricks about listening techniques so check that out.

It is also possible to record your own guitar sounds and use them in eartune instead. Let me know if your interested, I'll explain how.

[Edited by iamthe_eggman on 02-11-2004 at 12:45 PM]

[beginner]

Thanks again man! I ´ve just rerealized(don´t know if this word even exists)how important this forum for progress is. I would have done lots of things on Ear Training different or better expressed wrong, so this thread was really important for me.

I´ll check your tips out, when the trick will be posted. Let me know when you´ve finished.

As long the recorded sound of my own guitar has not any really advantages I don´t know yet, I think the Les Paul will do it too, but nevertheless thanks for the suggestion.

[Azrael]

hmmmmmm.. correct me if i´m wrong.. but everyone i know always kept telling me, that this perfect pitch thing is a gift of birth and that it cannot be learned. those peeps can even tell the pitch of a car-door slammed shut.
afaik those peeps do see colors in their head when they concentrate on a sound. and from those colors they tell the pitch - sortof like "dark red is f#"...... i know about beeing able to develop your ear to a good relative pitch... but to perfect pitch?.. hmmmmmmmmmmmsss i´m not sure.

[noticingthemistake]

Originally posted by Azrael
hmmmmmm.. correct me if i´m wrong.. but everyone i know always kept telling me, that this perfect pitch thing is a gift of birth and that it cannot be learned. those peeps can even tell the pitch of a car-door slammed shut.
afaik those peeps do see colors in their head when they concentrate on a sound. and from those colors they tell the pitch - sortof like "dark red is f#"...... i know about beeing able to develop your ear to a good relative pitch... but to perfect pitch?.. hmmmmmmmmmmmsss i´m not sure.

So when they're born, they are born with the exact knowledge of what the note B sounds like before they have even heard the note B?? Born with the skill of perfect pitch, NO! Born with an better sensitivity to sound, maybe. But they still have to learn to name pitches, like you name colors. And I bet if I went over to your guitar that you've been playing for so many years and hit one of the open strings, you could probably tell me what string I hit. So why couldn't you learn all 12 notes then. You may even be able to tell if it was alittle out of tune, maybe the low E was alittle flat.

See colors, no color is a metaphor. Afterall colors are frequency waves too, although they move 100's of times faster than a sound wav. Our eyes pick them up, but we still at a very young age had to learn to name them. Your ears pick up sounds waves, but they still need to learn to name the pitches. Difference in why people do have perfect pitch or not, can simply be answered by if they were taught to name notes at a very young age. People that don't have it usually where never taught to name pitches like everyone was taught to name colors as a kid. The similarities between recognizing colors and pitches has the same distinct characteristics. Some colors are bright, and some dark. Same with pitches, some are bright, some are dark. It is alittle more than that, but anyone can hear the difference between two pitches can learn perfect pitch. That what it is, knowing the distinction between all 12 pitches.

Here's more on the subject (http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=4181&pagenumber=12)

[Edited by iamthe_eggman on 02-11-2004 at 09:18 PM]

[noticingthemistake]

Originally posted by beginner
I´ll check your tips out, when the trick will be posted. Let me know when you´ve finished.

The trick on Listening technique (http://www.guitartricks.com/2000/trick.php?trick_id=7292)

I'm going to add another on Deeper listening, but this one should suffice for now.

[Edited by iamthe_eggman on 02-11-2004 at 09:19 PM]

[Azrael]

i think you misunderstood what i was saying. of course they where not born with the knowledge of music theory. and that was not what i was saying. but they have this "sound identificatoin tool" in their head. all they need to learn is how to name the sounds. so you are telling me when you 'somehow' learn to identify the 12 notes from a'' to a''' you will be instantly and without any difficulties be able to name a note thats 4 octaves lower and slightly out of pitch, even if you only hear that note for a split second? i dont think so - but thats exactly what perfect pitch is. those guys can even tell at what pitch you are farting! no joke!!! most of them can also tell how many instruments there are playing at a the same time. so when they close their eyes and you have like 25 out of 50 guitarists playing the same riff they will be able to tell you. i´ve seen it! you cant tell me that you can develop all this within any given amount of time to perfection.

[Edited by Azrael on 02-12-2004 at 12:31 AM]

[noticingthemistake]

Well perfect pitch is a skill, your not born with it. That's a ridiculous notion. What people are born with is a better sense of hearing, like people who can see better than others. Sound identication tool is the ear, man. Nothing special is in the head. Someone with perfect pitch like me, knows what F# sounds like because it has a sort of texture to it. No magic tuners in the head, nothing like that. F# just has a different sound that makes it distinguishable from all the other notes, exactly like the color black is different from white. The quality never changes from octave to octave. Yes as you to the extremes it does get harder to tell, but F# still has that nasal bright 'weir' quality to it. Eb still has a softer rounder wahish sound. People with perfect pitch can tell the differences between these notes because they hear them so vividly, even for a split second. Like if you closed your eyes, and opened them for only a split second to see a color, you could name it before you closed your eyes again.SO once the sound wavs are vivid to your ear, as color wavs are vivid to the eye, it's easy to name a note that sounds only for a spilt second. The sound of a note doesn't change from the time it's first stuck, til it finally fades out. So with that said the first step is to train the ear to listen alittle closer and pay attention to these differences. That can be done, the ear can be improved. We know this because relative pitch, sight reading, all that can be learned. So it makes no sense that someone can't learn to hear the difference between the note Eb and F# or any note. Play them on your guitar! I quarantee you can even hear the difference between Eb and F#, so you do sense a difference. Once you can hear the differences it's not hard to go to the next step and name them. Then to know if a note is alittle flat or sharp, or just sing any note at will. People don't learn it because they don't pay attention to these differences, instead they try to use relative, "how high is Eb". That's impossible. Even the great music theorist of all shapes, Paul Hindemith, said it is possible to learn the skill of absolute pitch. And perfect pitch doesn't mean your perfect, I have it and I still make mistakes every now and then. I believe even Petrucci (I believe it was him) learned it to some degree by playing the note A over and over until he knew what A sounded like, so now he uses that to tune his guitar.

[rockerluke]

I do not believe in the Perfect Pitch thing. How can somebody, without any sense of melody could get a perfect listening skill? The advertising is so unbelievable.

I'm quite good in listening, though I always lack notes. But I think I should get some similar stuffs like this.

[Jolly McJollyson]

How can you not believe in something that is indisputably real? Perfect pitch exists, I know this because it's a term used to describe someone who can tell a note at it's exact pitch. Not sure what the argument is here...