?Progression Question?

[Josh Redstone]

Okay, I have a question about the harmonic minor and melodic minor chord progressions. I'm familiar with the progression for the major scale; Maj, min min Maj Dom7th min Dim
What I'm asking is, what are the equivilent progressions for the Melodic & Harmonic Minor scales?
Thanx for any replies.

[griphon2]

Terms need to be presented in an understandable way.
What you said in your post was the chords, I hope within a particular key. Not a progression. Progression means some sort of movement. Try within your context I or i to V.
Then I or i, to IV or iv, to V or v, to I or i. These are very simple progressions. (movement) G or Gm to D or D7.
G or Gm to C or Cm to D or D7. Or G and/or Gm to, C and/or Cm, to D and or Dm or D7. Those are very simple progressions. Unfortunately, thay can get more complicated.
In the LONG HAUL, they're simple.

[griphon2]

I, IV, V,... i, iv, V,... and so forth seems to create angst on this site. Very basic progressions are these:
I,IV,V
I,ii,V
I,vi,ii,V
I,iii,vi,ii,V
I,vii,iii,vi,ii,V

Then in ANY QUALITY of chord. There are many variations, most under 5, many endings, most 5 or under.

[Josh Redstone]

Thanks for that, but what I meant was, what are the chord types associated with each degree of the scale.
Like, in the major scale, the dominant chord is a seventh, the subdominant is a major chord, etc.
What I want to know is, what are the chord types for the degrees of the harmonic minor and melodic minor scales.

[griphon2]

Pure minor
Cm7 Dm7b5 Ebmaj7 Fm7 Gm7 Abma7 Bb7

Harmonic minor
Cmmaj7 Dm7b5 Ebmaj7#5 Fm7 G7b9 Abmaj7 Bdim7

Melodic minor
Cmmaj7 Dm7 Ebmaj7#5 F7 G7 Am7b5 Bm7b5
(in a traditional context Descending MM is a Harmonic minor)

[Josh Redstone]

Awsome. This is what I was looking for. Thanks a bunch man!
I do have another question, just so I'm sure on this. Major and Minor 7ths, ect, I could just use straight major and minor, right?

[griphon2]

As triads, yes. As 7 type chords, it can be a little tricky.
The 7 must be qualified or noted. 7th always means b7. Maj7 always means major 7.

[noticingthemistake]

Originally posted by griphon2
Harmonic minor
Cmmaj7 Dm7b5 Ebmaj7#5 Fm7 G7b9 Abmaj7 Bdim7

Melodic minor
Cmmaj7 Dm7 Ebmaj7#5 F7 G7 Am7b5 Bm7b5
(in a traditional context Descending MM is a Harmonic minor)

Josh,
The melodic and harmonic minor 'Ebmaj7#5' is actually a Augmented chord in triad position. It's not a major chord, the "#5" tells you it's augmented. It is correct as "maj7#5" with the "7" extension. Also, a descending melodic minor is a natural minor scale, not the harmonic minor scale.

[griphon2]

That is correct, melodic minor up, natural down. It's called a Jazz melodic minor when the same melodic minor played upwards is the same downward. I have no idea why I said Harmonic minor down in a previous post. Sorry. Thanks, Notice.

[noticingthemistake]

It's kool. Sure it was just a slip. I thought I would add alittle more to the chords of both those scales.

In simple triad:

Harmonic minor: minor / diminished / augmented / major / major / major / diminished

Melodic minor: minor / minor / augmented / major / major / diminished / diminished

[griphon2]

Neat. I'd add too, but I won't. Too much is, too much.

[Josh Redstone]

Alright, cool. I got this stuff now. I messed around with the info you guys gave me and figured out a pattern you can count up the scale by. Pretty neat. Thanx.

[noticingthemistake]

Kool. What pattern is that, Josh??

[Josh Redstone]

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, (I most likely am...)
but you could just start on whatever note you want to find the chord for, and count up, skipping every second note in that scale, giving you the notes for the triad you want to find. Is that right? Cause I tried it with a bunch of scales I already know the chords for and it all corresponded well.

[noticingthemistake]

Yeah, thats right. All triads are built that way. The root, the third from the root, and the 5th from the root. If you were to do it in numbers it would be starting with 1, skip 2, 3, skip 4, 5. There's your major triad. If you ever seen "formulas", this is what they're doing. Converting the notes into numbers. So if you wanted to add a seventh to a chord, you would just count up to 7, skipping the 6th note. There's your note.

[Josh Redstone]

Awesome. This is the stuff I wanted to know. Thanx again guys.

[griphon2]

Careful, there is a difference between a 7th and a 7. These type of chords or changes, especially, must be qualified.

[noticingthemistake]

Ok. Sorry I'll clear that up a bit. When I talking about adding a "seventh", I mean you just count up 7 letters "notes" and that's your "seventh". So you wanted to play a C major 7 chord, the "letter" note would be B. So what I'm referring to is counting. The definition of 7's depends on they way they are altered, but a 7th of a chord is still 7 letters up from root. Take C dominant 7, it would be Bb. It's still B, you just add the alteration (b). In a dominant 7 chord the 7 is flattened once. So B becomes Bb. It's not A# because that is only 6 letters up from C. It's just the correct way to saying chords.

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 02-24-2003 at 10:00 AM]

[griphon2]

The 7th of any chord or change is the b7, always. That's why all maj 7's are qualified as such. Major 7 always implies leading tone. C7, Cm7, C+7 (C7#5), Cm7b5, Cdim, all have a b7. Cmaj7, Cmmaj7 have a leading tone, which is major 7. The seventh in terms of language, always implies b7. Seven by itself in terms of language, always implies leading tone.

[Josh Redstone]

Yeah, I was already familiar with all that stuff, but thanks for helping me with the other stuff.