Solid State vs. Tube

[canuck7]

hey everyone,
i've been hearing both sides of this argument for quite a while. i'm wondering what the big difference is between solid state amps and tube amps and i want to hear your opinions on what's better. some people say that tube amps sound great but other say solid-states hold up better. and vice versa.
post your thoughts.....

[stratgod]

Once you go tube you don't want to go back. I much prefer the warmth and punch you get out of a valve amp and the quality of sound. Going from my Marshall tranny amp to a Fender Valve amp was an expensive move but it was well worth it at the end of the day. I'll swear by a valve amp.

[Lordathestrings]

trendkillah nailed the basics. Here's a few subtleties:

The power supplies in most tube amps are 'soft', in that they are poorly regulated. To a typical engineer, this seems like a really shabby way to do things, but what happens, is that notes 'swell' as the initial attack drains off a lot of the energy stored in the filter caps, which is then built up again as the note sustains. Once the technogeeks got put right, (probably over several pints consumed in front of various bar bands), many transistor amps have been designed to reproduce this effect.

That sweet-sounding tube distortion only happens when the power stage of a tube amp is pushed into partial saturation. This causes the even-order harmonic content, and the compression, that characterise this sound. I've seen some interesting work based on FET output stages, but it isn't there, yet. The buzzy, overdive sound that a lot of players use, is generated in the preamp, or even between the guitar and the amp. Obviously, processing in this part of the signal chain does not interact with the speakers, missing an important part of 'the tube sound'. The plus side of that situation is the flexibility in volume level available to transistor amps that don't have to be cranked in order to find that 'sweet spot'. And preamp distortion sounds the same in headphones.

Transistor amps are ideal for accurately reproducing a signal. A signal can be amplified without adding to, or taking away from, the original. Once a sound has been 'warmed up' by a tube stage in the preamp, a transistor amp will faithfully carry that warmth to the speakers. This is why modelling amps work as well as they do. What a transistor amp will not do, is provide that warm, 'springy' touch that (so far, anyway) can only be coaxed out of a transformer-coupled tube power stage, reacting with a speaker cab.

[aiwass]

I agree that tube amps sound better generally, but there are a couple of brands that pull it off with solid state. Randall and JJ Labs to name two. Dimebag Darrel has one of the best tones in the business, and he uses solid state amps.

[canuck7]

holding that thought...
which artists use solid-state and which artists use tube? i'm talking about metal here. oldies to now really.

[aiwass]

Tube: Metallica, Slipknot, Dream Theater, Korn, Dimmu Borgir... anyone wo uses stuff like Mesa, VHT, Soldano, Marshall, etc. Most people use tube amps. In general, solid state amps have more gain, though. Listen to Pantera, Anthrax, recent Disturbed and early Michael Angelo stuff to hear Randall solid states at work.

Personally I'm saving up for a VHT. It's the big bad mother of all metal amps. And it's all tube. But it really comes down to taste. Solid state amps are good if you want as brutal a distortion as possible, for exapmple for death metal, and tube amps are good for everything else.

[Andrew Sa]

Tube always
You cant beat a tube sound, even with digital tube modellers, the sound of a real tube is amazing.
Andrew

[N4Player]

Simply put...tube amps blow SS amps away for tone/drive/sustain. I'll never get another SS amp, even the Marshall trans-tubes suck. Go tube dude !
-Bob
http://guitar-pedal.com

[canuck7]

this stuff is great. thanks to everyone who contributed. i'm planning on a Marshall tube amp but i want to try both tube and solid-state before i make a final decision. just to make sure that tube is best of course.

[Lordathestrings]

Originally posted by canuck7
...but i want to try both tube and solid-state before i make a final decision. just to make sure that tube is best of course. Yes! The only way to shop for gear is with your eyes closed, your ears and mind open. Happy hunting! :)

[N4Player]

Also consider a tube amp is much easier to repair than an SS amp.

[Incidents Happen]

anybody who has heard a tube amp knows they are better, hence the reason why i own a Fender '65 Reverb.

[canuck7]

yeah, i heard that solid states are a bitch to fix.

[Lordathestrings]

Originally posted by canuck7
yeah, i heard that solid states are a bitch to fix. Any circuit built on a printed circuit board is going be hard to repair or modify. And that includes a lot of modern tube amps. Point-to-point wiring has to be done by hand, and that is an expensive process. From a service point of view, the transistor amps are much more reliable. Tubes deteriorate with use, and even the highest quality tubes with the most careful bias maintenance will eventually wear out. Tubes tend to break down slowly, which gives you some time to schedule some service. Transistors tend to work well, or not at all, which means that if bad things happen, they happen suddenly.

I have both kinds of amp, and they have different specialties. When you are about to pick just one amp to do everything with, it makes choosing one over another hard to do.

If you're going to be dragging your kit all over the country, small size, light weight, extremely reliable gear is actualy more important than getting that perfect tone. Quite frankly, by the second set, most bar audiences aren't going to notice that your tone was borrowed from the angels. But if your rig quits four songs in, you ain't gonna have a third set!

If you're looking to spend most of your time recording, or jamming in the garage with your buds, you can focus on ultimate tone.

[canuck7]

yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
but would agree that Marshall would be a good choice for this kind of amp you described? or any other companies? thanks for the help.

[aiwass]

If you're playing high gain stuff, and you're not on a very strict budget, Marshall wouldn't be the best choice. Brands like Engl, VHT, Mesa, Soldano, Diezel, etc. are more suited for that. Actually, Engl's can be found at a decent price, and they're really good. Also, if you want both solid state and tube options, check out the new Randall V-max. That thing has one all-solid state preamp and one all-tube preamp, both being comletely separate. Alot of famous dudes started using it recently.

[canuck7]

i thought Diezels were rare or expensive or something. but they've been talked up the wazzoo.
anyways, i read all about the new Randall V-Max too. that's a really cool idea. it would be a cool amp to get, but i'd probably just go with one or the other.

[Polera]

I just recnetly got a Yorkville Traynor Tube amp and its amazing! Its canadian so probably unheard of around here except for those who are canadian of course. If you come across one, then ask to try it, you might find a quality amp at a good price!

[canuck7]

can anyone give some more info about Diezel amps? i've heard that they're terrific but i don't even know if they're solid-state or tube. specs and any other info would be greatly appreciated.
thanks.

[aiwass]

" .ch "? Diezel is Swiss? Hmm... Haven't seen 'em in the stores here. Weird.

[canuck7]

thanks guys,
what is the best style to use a Diezel for? metal, punk, etc.

[aiwass]

Metal.

[canuck7]

i thought so.
also, is there some kind of translation or something? i don't understand a f*cking thing!! i'm talking about the website.

[aiwass]

Weird. Is there a diezel.de, also then? Cuz .ch means Switzerland.

[aiwass]

Strange. Oh well, who cares? It's the sound they make that matters...

[canuck7]

thanks for your help here.

[azspyguy]

I'm a techie by nature, so when I was first introduced to the dilema of solid state vs. tube amps, I simply built a simple patch cord box with a foot switch that allows me to choose between my antique Fender tube amp and my mega modified tranny amp. Both amps play into an old Fender XFL-1000 Speaker cabinet with 4-12 inchers. I get the warmth I like for country and blues from the tubes, while tecno and metal sound great on the tranny. Just in case there are any crazy surfers left over from the 60's, you might remember the old double spring "Beautiful Woman" reverb units. I also have it incorporated into either amp by way of another foot switch. A third foot switch controls the introduction of a second spring unit for a very special exagerated delay. the final foot switch conrols a simple solenoid from a doorbell that is mounted in such a way that it "kicks" the spring unit for that "splashing" sound. All equipment I have is under continous modification and I would not be without either setup. Let's hear from the rest of you techies about your projects.