the Metallica distortion

[canuck7]

hey everybody,
does anyone know how Metallica get the awesome clean distortion? not fuzzy and dirty like most amps.
i'm trying to find stuff like EQ settings and pedals/amps and settings and stuff.
anything you guys know about it really. but be as specific as you can be.

[SLY]

Well, Metallica's sound has changed a lot over years... If you want Dist. like on Justice & Puppets albums try the following settings with your amp/EQ/multieffect or whatever..

Bass: 7-9 , Midz: 2-4 , Highs: 4-6 .

[Bailey]

If you wanna get a Metallica sound, you must your guitar put into a Mesaboogie preamp (or something like Engl E580) and some good poweramp with cool boxes...

[canuck7]

this has been very helpful so far. if you want me to be more specific i'm looking for a Black album kind of distortion and also Ride The Lightening but i'm mainly interested in the Black album sound.

[Axl_Rose]

Hammett scoops his mids and turns up the bass and presense, think the highs are bout 5 - 7

[Kirk_Aimar]

Hey if u want more details about Metallica and their sounds. Try this webbie http://www.themetsource.com might do a help there

[aiwass]

Originally posted by Axl_Rose
Hammett scoops his mids and turns up the bass and presense, think the highs are bout 5 - 7

Nobody wants Hammett's sound. Hetfield is the sh*t. For a good Metallica tone, a pedal won't do. You'll need a high gain amp, preferably tube (although I guess a Randall could work OK). For Justice (my favorite 'tallica album in terms of tone), Hetfield and Hamster used Mesa/Boogie Mark IIC+ amps. Since Mesa doesn't make that model anymore, and (if you ask me) their Rectifier series are not that good, I would suggest looking into brands like Engl, VHT, Soldano, Diezel, etc. If you ask me, I think VHT pittbulls are the most promising amps around these days. Check out "Gently" by Slipknot. Mick Thomson recently started using them, and his tone is killer now. VHT is like Mesa, but more distortion, more clarity, and better overall sound. Did I mention more low end?

[canuck7]

i'm with aiwass on this one, i love Hammett's sound too but i AM looking for that ballsy Hetfield crunch that aiwass mentioned.

[SLY]

What do you mean by Hammett's sound ? The solos?
Don't both Hammett & Hetfield use guitars from the same manufacturer, same pickups , same amps ,etc ??

They both sound the same while playing rhythm , Hammett sounds different only when playing solos for the effects he uses like the Wah , Delay, Reverb , and so on...

[aiwass]

Bull. For one, Hetfield DOES sound different. Second, Hammett has nowhere NEAR the technique Hetfield has when playing rhythm. There's a reason why the chords sound so tight.

[SLY]

??????

What do you mean? Are you saying that Hetfield is technicaly better than Hammett??!

What rhythm technique are you talking about? The downstroked P.M. open E's ?? I believe that any experienced Lead player (like Hammett) can do it faster than Hetfield with downstrokes too ... Or 10x speed with alternate picking.

[aiwass]

You don't know much about Hetfield, do you? Hammett can probably do downstrokes ALMOST as fast as Hetfield. Hetfield, however, has just the right touch, muting, and strength, and makes it sound much better than Hammett does.

Hetfield is known to be one of the fastest downpickers out there. Also, I can play probably play twice as fast as Hetfield doing leads, but he's much faster than me when it comes to using downstrokes. That's what he practiced when Hammett practiced scales.

[SLY]

The right touch for what, for muting the open E ??
LOL

Well, as for downstrokes, his downstriking technique is cool, unique & fast, but not the fastest ( I can play downstrokes hell faster than him anyway, and there may be people who can do it faster than me, then he's not the fastest).

And about the difference between Hammett & James rhythm playing ... These two guys are the most PERFECTLY IN TUNE playing guitar mates I've ever heard , when they both play rhythm it seems as just one guitar , but realy thick and heavy (In other great bands, usualy both guitars don't play the same exact notes, the just follow the same progression but each on his own, like GNR) ...
I'm sure they spend hell lot of time practicing together to get this perfection they have.. That's the magic of Metallica's sound IMHO.

Anyway, if Hetfield is to be better at something ,then it's definately the songwriting gift ... Hammett hasn't got 1/99999999 of the amazing ability to write great songs that Hetfield has.

[canuck7]

look man, it's just different techniques that both require a lot of skill.
rhythm guitar requires speed and there are lead guitarists who can't do rhythm for their asses. rhythm guitar also requires skill in many fields. it's just a whole different mindset than lead.
lead of course is much different than rhythm and normally gets the glory.
so hammett and hetfield isn't really comparable because there are two different skills being measured against each other. but they are both two phenomenal guitarists with great talent. i just like the hetfield crunch so much. it's just addictive when you listen to Metallica.

[aiwass]

Petrucci can do both, though. He proves that on their Metallica covers.

[SLY]

I don't like categorizing Lead & Rhythm, having each on it's own... They are both called guitar playing ...
As in an Orchestra , there are average singers who do Choral (rhythm) , and singers with special talents go Suprano (lead).
Also you see a lot of violinists playing rhythm, and the Hotshot violinist is the soloist (Lead in guitar language).

Same with the guitar , a Guitarist with an average skill plays rhythm , and a guitarist with special skills plays Lead...
This doesn't mean that rhythm playing is trivial ...
It requires as much feelings as in lead playing... But doesn't require the similar skills of course.

And I've never heard about the lead guitarist who can't take the rhythm job, cuz usualy every body has to learn how to play rhythm first, before getting into lead.
And if this kinda guy EXIST ... Then I'm pretty sure that his Lead playing ain't worth a row of beans as well.

[aiwass]

Erm.. actually there's plenty of 'em. B.B King, for one.

[SLY]

Originally posted by aiwass
Erm.. actually there's plenty of 'em. B.B King, for one.


:confused:

Are you saying that B.B. King can't play rhythm?

[aiwass]

Yes.

[GregoryB]

god damn dude, don't you guys have anything better to do than argue over the forums? I think Hammett and Hetfield are incomparable, like apples and oranges.

[aiwass]

I didn't say they were comparable. Just that when you talk about the "Metallica tone", it's Hetfield, not Hammett. It was SLY who got me started on the rhythm/lead thing.

[SLY]

Never mind "aiwass" ... But I still insist on my points anyway. ;)

[canuck7]

hammet vs. hetfield is impossible because they are not comparable. it's like math, unlike terms. it just doesn't add up. it's like trying to play Magic against someone with a 52-card playing deck. (not a great analogy).
it's hetfield who makes the Metallica crunch, not hammett. even though hammett is just as good but different.
but about the rhythm vs. lead thing. i believe that the true measure of a great guitarist is to be able to do both and seamlessly go between both of them. Randy Rhoads is the perfect example, he could do both brilliantly and his solos flow smoothly in and out of his riffs. Zakk Wylde can do both as well.
but having two guitarists doesn't mean they can only play lead or rhythm. ah well, i hope i made my point.
thanks for the info anyway.

[SLY]

Well, Kirk Hammett said in an interview that 90% of what he plays with metallica is rhythm , actualy live James do more interaction with fans than playing guitar ... I believe they got hidden guitar assistants for live stuff too.

Anyway all of the lead guitarists I know play rhythm ... Dimebag , Petrucci , Gilbert , Friedman , Slash , Page ,Hendrix ,SRV , Vai , Satch , Hammett ... Just to name a few.

On the other hand , most rhythm guitarists can't play good leads or can't execute some special techniques (specilay with fast bpm)... No offence to rhythm guitarists , most of my friends play rhythm, and I never try to discourage or show off against them , unless someone start showing off...

About B.B. King can't play rhythm thing ... What rhythm do you mean? do you mean he can't play like Hetfield ?
If so, there is no comparison from this point... You can't compare Van Halen to Andres Segovia, Megadeth to Gipsy Kings, etc. ... These are 2 different styles.
I haven't heard a lot of B.B. , but I remember that there ain't any guitar rhythm in his music , just bass & drums , right? You can't judge his rhythm playing unless you hear it.

But a comparison between Hammett's & Hetfield's technique is possible , they both play same style of music, and they both played rhythm & solos. If you compared their rhythm playing they draw , if you compared the solos , for sure Hammett wins.
And as I said in a previous post, you can't separate between Lead & Rhythm anyway.

Of course you dudes know I'm not offending anybody ... Just trying to explain my point, that Hetfield's rhythm playing isn't better than Hammett's , but his songwriting certainly is...
And that I'm against the separation between lead & rhythm in the same music style.


If you don't like my points , just forget about it and lets close this thread... Such discussions ain't realy usefull and won't add or subtract anything . :)

[aiwass]

Originally posted by SLY
Well, Kirk Hammett said in an interview that 90% of what he plays with metallica is rhythm , actualy live James do more interaction with fans than playing guitar ...



True. Hammett started playing rhythm on the Black Album. Of course, he had done it live before, but on the albums before the Black Album, Hetfield played all the rhythm parts. Interestingly, what I consider the best Metallica rhythm tones ever (definitely Justice, and possibly Puppets) were recorded AFTER they got money for decent gear, but BEFORE hammett started playing rhythm. Of course, this is only my opinion, but I think Hetfield just sounds better. The fact that they use slightly different amps might also have something to do with it, though...

On the topic of B.B. King's rhythm playing, I was just referring to the fact that he DOESN'T play rhythm. Whether he is good at it or not, is another thing. I saw him live once, and he deliberately avoids playing rhythm. He only sings and plays lead. He says it's cuz he can only use one "voice" at a time.

[SLY]

Yeah, Justice & Master are my fav albums too... And usualy when I'm playing metal, I try to dial a tone similar to Justice outa my gear.

Although the new albums are not very musicaly satisfying (IMHO) (specialy Load & Reload) , I realy like their new tones... I'm sure these guys are using the most expensive gear in history nowadays... If they just could have kept the same old musical attitude...