SG/ LP owners

[Incidents Happen]

Remember me, the mcdonalds 14 year old worker who saves all his money and buys guitar gear with it (bought a Fender '65 deluxe reverb, Guild DC-1 acoustic/electric, q tron + envelope filter, alltogether so far spent $2000 on gear this year). Well...

I have $1000 now in the bank, and will be replacing my Squier Strat with a new guitar soon (a nice one). I've played plenty of LP's (epi lp's) and have my eyes on one right now, i think i already showed the link (3 humbuckers/black, epi lp black beauty 3), and also the Gibson SG Standard. The price difference is $600 bucks (i get $300 a month from Mickey D's, price is not really the biggest issue) I've never played an SG before (will be in a few weeks, going to a music store that has em). The main thing im worried about is that SG's might not be versatile enough (i already know the LP is very versatile), and that it might dent easily due to its light weight, etc.

Thats where price comes in, i remember hearing somebody say they bought a really nice expensive guitar and they didnt want to bring it in public because they thought it would break somehow and all that money he saved up for would be down the drain (i know its a little exaggerative but things like that happen).

So basically, what im asking is to tell me what model you have of either carnation of the SG or LP and tell me how you like it and (in your opinion) the pros and cons of your instrument.

[PonyOne]

Well, I have the cheap Epiphone sub-SG, the SG Special. The only merit that mine shares with a Gibson is that it has the same body shape. But a Gibson is a set neck, my particular Epi is a bolt on. It has a lot of sentimental value, being my first guitar, and I've done a lot of work on it so that it sounds as nice as possible.

I've played SG's and LP's extensively, and if I had the choice betweenthe two realistically (i.e. price being an issue), I'd go with the SG. A top-of-the-line SG goes for about the same as a bottom-of-the-line LP. Personally, I like the ligt weight of the SG; it's easier to wield. If given the choice between an SG Standard and an LP Goldtop, however, I would take the Goldtop...

Soundwise, the SG's humbuckers are better suited to overdrive than the LP's are. This is why such bands as AC/DC, Iggy Pop, Refused, The Vines, and many, many others use the SG's for lead. In the instance of the band Jimmy Eat World, and I've seen this before, the SG is used by the lead guitarist, and the singer plays an LP for rythm.

The SG's tone is more crisp and clean than an LP's, but beefier than a Strat's. It's a very good go-between guitar. Also, the body shape is tough to beat. It is about as aggressive as it gets (I refer to mine as the "satanic guitar" among my collection. SG is supposed to stand for "solid guitar" but I got my doubts...) and the double-cut that affects the "horns" means unrestricted access to the fretboard.

SG's are world-renowned for their durability. They are one of the most durable guitars you can get, all things considered; evidently, some people who really like to throw their guitars around and plunge them downward toward the stage bitch about how their neck joints are weak because of the double cutaway. But there's a famous video of Iggy Pop tearing the SG away from the guitarist and throwing it ten feet in the air, kicking it out of the sky, jumping on it, kicking it across the stage, throwing it into a stack, and then throwing it up in the air again and letting it land hard, wielding it like an axe over his head and then slamming it into the stack again, then the guitarist picking it back up and returning to playing. It didn't even go out of tune.

Since you're obsessed with jamming, I don't know if the SG is the right fit for you. It's more of a focused, dynamic, dead-ahead type guitar, IMHO, whereas the LP has a more warm-ish tone better suited toward "on the fly" exploration; also, strumming feels nicer on an LP than an SG, wheras shredding, triads and harmonics feel better on an SG. All this is IMHO, it's more like the feeling I get when I start playing one of these axes. When you go to the store to check the SG out, just keep an open mind, and remember that each guitar has it's merits, and make sure that what you leave with is pleasing to your ears and hands, and not what other people suggested.

BTW, as a side, one of the bands that uses the SG, the Vines, was working at a McDonald's when they got discovered... and the lead singer is currently 17... interesting little side note... think about it.

[Incidents Happen]

yeah, see the double cutaway is cool but i dont really like the horns (im not into the whole satanic thing). Jerry Garcia almost exclusively used an SG in 1969 including Woodstock (not that the dead played particularly well at woodstock...but none the less). The LP's I've played (at least the High End Epi LP's, which IMO are built better than the low end Gibson's), had this beautiful smooth jazzy/bluesy type feel to it on the neck pickup, then this tremendous crunch on the bridge pickup, it totally blew me away, and something like that just makes you want to become more well-rounded...

But then again, the SG could be "my" axe from age 14 to whenever i get rich enough to get a custom guitar made (not through warmoth), and having a special axe for a few years helps people recognize the guitar with the guitar player (anybody who sees Jer's Tiger will immediately think of jerry, anybody who see's Angus Young's guitar will immidiately think of angus, etc).

Im struggling to figure this one out, because unlike amps, the answer is not always clear (as fender tube amps are!), and have been struggling with the decision for a few months now...I have 2 major guitars on each side of the spectrum, and inbetween is a guitar called the Gibson Les Paul Double Cut Away Plus, a 24 fret guitar built just like a LP, only double cutaway...Only problem is that there is only 1 vol/1 tone (i'd like to have it be 1 vol/ 2 tone), but im sure i could have that done if i wanted to (and if i found it neccessary). Anyways, the major thing about the Epi LP is the 3 humbuckers (and the LP tone), the main thing about SG is the lead guitar tone and the double cutaway, main thing about the Gibson DC is the double cutaway, 24 frets, and the LP style tone (but you pay $1400 for it...)

[PonyOne]

This is just my opinion again, but I actually prefer having the 2 knobs than 4, just because it means that the guitar is less cluttered overall. It's much easier to fiddle with when playing live, again, to me, if you have a nice straightforward setup. I've never really been in a situation where i wanted to have the neck pickup at 35% and the bridge at 65% at the same time, anyway. I almot never use both pickups at one time.

You can use pretty much any guitar for any purpose; you could use an SG for rythm, and a lot of people have used the LP for lead, it's more a matter of preference. Like you said, when I pick up an LP, I get more of a bluesy/jazzy vibe. I love the blues but I hate jazz with a passion. The SG feels more like a shredding, power-chord guitar. And I like to shred and use really hard, aggressive, artificial-harmonic triads. Perfect.

I'd still love to get an LP someday, but there are other axes higher on my list and lower on the price tag.

The SG is still one of my favorite guitars, and like you said, you don't nevessarily need a mega-custom guitar right as you're just starting out as a musician. A couple things to think of:

You're still very young, even younger than me... I still don't really know what my "ultimate" tone is, but I know what I like. Getting a guitar like an SG, which is a nice go-between, could help you in that you won't be as limited to one tone.

And if you want a more LP-like sound, go ahead and pay $800 for an SG standard, and then pay $95 for a Seymour Duncan Antiquity pickup (these are the type of p/u they put in $3000 custom guitars) for the neck so you get that vintage rythm, and then get something else for the bridge, like a Duncan '59. Your guitar will then have increased midrange voice, like an LP, as opposed to decreased mid/raised high & low like many SG's.

[Incidents Happen]

just wondering, where have you seen the Gibson SG Standard for $800? Cheapest i've seen it for is $1200 or so.

[PonyOne]

Sorry, I meant the Special. Same construction, different pickups, less collectible (but you don't care about that, do you?)

SG Special Faded-Finish-For-Vintage-Look $580
http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemID=21050&TempID=6&Method=2&CategoryID=0&BrandID=0&PriceRangeID=0&PageNum=0&DepartmentID=&DepartmentKeeper=&pagesize=15&SortMethod=0&Word1=gibson+SG&Contains=%22%2Agibson%2A%22+AND+%22%2Asg%2A%22&Search_Type=SEARCH&GroupCode=nonetodaythanks&DepartmentID=0

SG Gothic : DON'T AUTOMATICALLY DISCOUNT THIS GUITAR BECAUSE IT'S "GOTHIC". Basically, it's a special, jut with a really cool matte black finish and more powerful pickups.
http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemID=14637&TempID=4&Method=2&CategoryID=0&BrandID=0&PriceRangeID=0&PageNum=0&DepartmentID=&DepartmentKeeper=&pagesize=15&SortMethod=0&Word1=gibson+SG&Contains=%22%2Agibson%2A%22+AND+%22%2Asg%2A%22&Search_Type=SEARCH&GroupCode=nonetodaythanks&DepartmentID=0

Another interesting special edition $900
http://www.music123.com/Item/?itemno=76287

Regular old special $800
http://www.music123.com/Item/?itemno=33297

And another cool Epi...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=020918182630216244000178838635/search/g=home/detail/base_id/85707

Hope this helps some...

[Incidents Happen]

I considered the Special for a few days, then realized that i make enough money that i could get the Gibson SG Standard, which imo looks alot nicer (i know its only cosmetics, but still)...

[PonyOne]

....actually, aside from the finishes, they are, esentially, the same instrument. I checked, they also have the same pickups.

[Incidents Happen]

essentially, yes...But the neck doesnt have those beautiful block inlays, and the finishes suck (on the special), and if i don't have confidence in the guitar im playing, what confidence is going to be in the music?

Does Gibson have anything where if you want a certain part on a certain guitar, they'll make it for you (for example, i saw the neck on the SG Supreme, totally blew me away, was thinking if i wanted the SG standard, but with a Supreme neck, i could pay like $300 more and they'd do it for me...maybe...

[PonyOne]

Gibson won't do anything custom unless you get a custom shop guitar. A custom shop guitar is gonna cost at least as much as an SG supreme, probably more. When you buy a guitar like an SG Supreme, you're paying less for all the stuff on it becuase it's mass produced. If you got a Custom Shop with the exact same stuff as the Supreme (which is one of he coolest guitars ever, IMHO) then you're looking at paying about twice as much.

Personally, I can't get down with not buying a guitar because of some minor cosmetics. If it was an issue of the guitar being an ugly design, then yeah, I may not buy it, but dude, THEY'RE INLAYS!!!!! Totally inconsequential. If your confidence in your music and playing depends on the finish and inlays of your guitar rather than the sound it puts out, then I think you should check your priorities.

[Incidents Happen]

lol, no trust me i just have a thing for the block inlays (dots are too boring for me), the inlays have nothing to do with how confident i am in my music. The finish does though, and every finish i've seen on a SG Special has been ugly as ****, and i can't have that, especially when i can AFFORD an SG Standard.

[PonyOne]

I degress. The finishes on the special can actually look good. I don' tlike the black, simply becuase, I generally don't like black guitars. On the one hand this sucks, as for instance, with Musician's Friend, I can ge ta lefty SG special in black for as much as the rightie, although the list price is $300 more than the rightie, but they only have it in black. I can refinish, so to me it isn't an issue; I'd get it and paint it bright metallic orange or something, or do bright flame red with two white stripes going down it (or black w/silver, ala Carrol Shelby and the GT350) or something, but even if I didn't, I'd still get it, since it's a good guitar for a good price.

Check out the blue teal flip flop paintjob on the special; it's very cool, it's irridescent and goes from blue to purple depending on the angle it's viewed at.

Also cool, is the cherry red color. That is the mainstay SG color; try telling Angus Young it's ugly.

http://www.gbase.com/gearlist/guitar_picture.asp?guitar=371010

this one's really cool and you could buy it today w/the money you have already
http://www.gbase.com/gearlist/guitar_picture.asp?guitar=378400''

ultra-rare limited production pewter color, very collectible
http://www.gbase.com/gearlist/guitar_picture.asp?guitar=374299

or if you really wnat to spend money (wihch it seems you want to) look at this old '70 for only 1300....
http://www.gbase.com/gearlist/guitar_picture.asp?guitar=300389

[Josh Redstone]

I dont like the colour of the SG standards. They seem brighter than the ones on the old reissues. I dont have the money for any big fancy Gibsons, so I got me an Epiphone G400, it was top of the line untill they built one with three pickups, which looks funny anyway. Point is, I like the finnish on it better than on the new SG standards.

[Incidents Happen]

They didnt sell the cherry red color on the website i checked ( i think it was zzounds or music 123, can't remember), and even though its a good deal, i just can't resist the block inlays.

[Incidents Happen]

I've been thinking about it for a while now and i think the Gibson Standard Double Cut Away + might be the one for me, and started to realize that there are alot of plus's to having 1 vol/1 tone as compared to 2 vol/2 tone, keeps it alot simpler to maneuver, and i think the body cavity where they put all the electronics in is smaller than normal (since you dont need a big fat one since its only got 2 buttons and a 3 way switch) allowing more wood...plus the AAA maple top is stunning, even better than the Gibson LP Standard (which i was also considering buying, until i realized that the Standard DC+ looks nicer and probably plays just as nice/better than the LP Standard).

I think the reason for the price difference ( over $600) is because the DC + isnt hyped up to hell like the LP Standard is (if you look at the stats on the DC+, alot of them are better than the LP Standard...24 frets...AAA Maple...etc)...

Sometimes the first one that blows you away is your guitar, if you know what i mean...The DC+ (when i saw it online) totally stunned me, and gave me motivation to keep working at mcdonalds for nearly 5 months (until i got my new Fender Deluxe Reverb amp, etc), i still work there btw...

[PonyOne]

Ok, I had a longer, less coherent thing up here, but I think it'd be better to post this song I wrote to Jerry Garcia and Santana instead.

(the board software will censor out the profanity)

big ****ing rockstar
playing onstage
you have such a nice shiny guitar
so nice and pretty and costly
you never play it too hard

music built on the backs of black men
fifty years ago
driven into the drugs and died in the gutter
for your eight thousand dollar guitar

abalone block inlays
and flamed bubinga top
your name set into the headstock
in 24 karat gold
diamond-cut diamond strips
and inlays of floating birds
make your guitar sound so much better on CD

hey mr. talented guy,
wanna try my old SG
with the dented red body
and worn-down neck?
can you be artistic without spending so much money?

can you make that thing sound good witohut you thousand dollar pedal
witohut your boxes of equipment
and your techs who have degrees?
her mr. rock star,
do you remember me?
you were like me at one time,
before your record deal
you were working your ass off
and bleeding into your instrument
now you just get it painted instead
while i use my soul to make my music red

[Edited by PonyOne on 09-23-2002 at 02:26 AM]

[Incidents Happen]

yeaaaaah. Check your sources though, jerry didnt have a guitar worth more than $1000 up until like 1974 (SG's back then didnt cost nearly as much as they do now, same with LP's), after they went on 2 europe tours and were one of the top acts in the biz, and then he bought "Wolf" from irwin for $1500, and used that guitar for the next 6 years. it wasnt until 1980 that jerry actually played a "8 thousand dollar guitar", and by then he was 38 years old and had already led the dead through 15 years. These musicians did not sound good because of their guitar, they actually are/were good musicians...you make it sound like they would totally suck if they played through a cheaper guitar (Jerry played synth's through a Fender Standard Strat with a roland thingy in it in 1989 before he got Rosebud, thats a $350 guitar with the synth in it...and he made it sound great)

tell me, if you had $10,000 to spend on a guitar, would you just keep playing your beat up SG, or would you get a new, nice one? simple logic.

[PonyOne]

Oh, I make no bones about buying a nicer guitar. I'd definitely get a better one, but I'd spend more of the money on a car, food, school, and then the rest goes into a high-interest CD so that maybe someone will give me a credit card.

I know all the crap about Jerry having other guitars blah blah, check your own sources and read the last part of the song...

her mr. rock star,
do you remember me?
you were like me at one time,
before your record deal
you were working your ass off
and bleeding into your instrument
now you just get it painted instead
while i use my soul to make my music red

both he and santana used to play normal, or somewhat normal but modified instruments, the simple truth of it is that, even with all the inflation etc in finances, there was no guitar that expensive for awhile. As soon as the decade of excess hits, they go just as excessive as the neuvo rich stock investor who wipes his arse with $100 bills just cause he can.

Don't you dare get condescending with me boy, you're the one who keeps ripping off my ideas for what a good guitar is! Yeeesh.

[Incidents Happen]

:D. Santana is alot more flashy than jerry garcia was though, i mean jerry didn't say "Make me a really nice guitar that is expensive, etc" he told doug irwin to just make a nice guitar, however doug felt it should be done, and doug put alot of pride into making a really fine instrument, jerry didnt tell him to make it superfancy.

But there is one thing about music that i think you've taught me in a way, about the simplicity on the guitar, 1 tone/1 vol makes it very simple and easy to use onstage, and i thank you for enlightening me with that.

[PonyOne]

n/p, I also turned you away from the realm of the Strat.

Santana is definitely less deserving of his note than Jerry is of his, although I think Jerry is also pretty over-blown.

All i'm saying is get whatever guitar you actually want, just don't get it because it looks neato or one of your favorite artists had one just like it, we don't need another Jerry Garcia, we need a new someone who can inspire millions. Whether that's you with an SG or LP, or some guy with a Dano or a girl with a Rickenbacker or who or what, I don't know better than anyone else. Just remember that GD started as an experiment, and an effort to do something totally new and unexplored, as did most other great bands and performers. People just got obsessed with what was, and the GD stopped thinking of what could have been. Imagine if their fans hadn't misinterpreted thier lyrics left and right, and had wanted to hear more totally, 100% new stuff than new rneditions of old stuff and had given them the encouragement to do so; think of the additional awesome 20 cd's you'd own.

ART DAMN IT, ART!!!!

[Incidents Happen]

very true, and i have been writing songs all week (well, so far 2 songs, but i just started yesterday so im doin okay with that). I chose the LP DC + because it fits all my needs for both rhythm and lead, and i can't wait to get it...

[^Chacron^]

Nice :) Les Pauls are where its at for me too, although I'm kinda in the same place as you coz I got some cash set aside for a new electric and I'm thinking of a strat but I'll wait till I form a band so I have a better idea of what I need in a guitar.

You say you're gonna replace that squire, my advice would be keep it for spares and to work on. I've still got mine coz its good to play about with and when I use it on stage I can beat the **** out of it :D

[Incidents Happen]

I guess, but i could get some cash out of it and buy a decent guitar to work on, if you know what i mean...

[PonyOne]

If you do sell your Squier, sell it yourself, don't sell it to a store or put it on commission at one. I don't know what type it is but you can probably sell it for like $20 less than you paid, somewhere around there, unless it's badly beaten up or something. And if you want a tinkerer, look at a Kramer Focus (www.musicyo.com); you can get a basic righty for $70 and they play closer to an AmStrat.

[Incidents Happen]

yes, i've heard about them.

I'd rather spend my $100 tinkering money on a bass though, so that when i get in a band i have a better idea on what the bass is all about, etc.