Best Songwriters of all time?

[David C]

I am curious, who do you think is the best songwriter (who also plays guitar of course) of all time? I would have to say Bob Dylan, with Neil Young coming a close second. Many people would get honorable mentions, but Dylan is the greatest. And he is still writing great lyrics in his informal yet brilliant style--check out Love & Theft.
What do you think?
David

[zepp_rules]

Steve Harris and Roger Waters are my favorite

[lalimacefolle]

John Lennon

[MikeP.]

Although not the most popular subject these days (Although I could care less...I love Heavy metal)

Dave Mustaine (Megadeth)
Randy Rhoads, Jake E. Lee, Zakk Wylde (Ozzy Osbourne)
C.C DeVille (Poison) (don't laugh... He's written Hit after Hit after Hit and has an ear for melodies)
Kirk Hammet/James Hetfield (Metallica)
Yngwie J. Malmsteen (Rising Force)
Ritchie Blacmore (Deep Purple)
Toni Iomie (Black Sabbath-again hit after hit)


Instrumentalists
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
Eric Johnson
Yngwie J. Malmsteen (I also had to list hime here as well)
(I'd list more instrumentalists but these are the top with most radio airplay of their genre)


I guess when it all comes down to it who's the best songwriters etc. (Forget about media hype wich can brainwash people) everybody has different oppinions.

[cortateer]

i'd say paul simon, dave matthews or john lennon..and bob dylan would be there as well. others that drserve mention:
stock atkin and waterman, they hold a record i think, for writing a complete song the fastest, words and music: 3minutes...kinda kwik...

[cortateer]

oooooooooooooooo and ben harper!!...

[David C]

For a while, I didn't think anybody cared about songwriting anymore. (ha!) Those are all good choices. Have you heard of Jay Farrar from Son Volt, originally with Uncle Tupelo? He's the man to watch as far as new songwriters go (in my humble opinion).
David

[Slow Diver]

Cobain
Morrison
Edd Vedder
Depeche Mode
And of course Perry Farel
These are the first five that came in my mind

[cortateer]

cobain...nah.
morrison...hell yeah...esp: madam george
vedder... yip yip yip...esp: off he goes
depeche mode...goody goody...esp: personal jesus

[farquharson]

I would have to agree and say Bob Dylon along with Neil Young! but i would also lke to give thanks to Axel Rose, Billy Joel,Kurt Cobain and Noel Gallahger for their memorable lyrics.

[David C]

Actually guys, I was asking about "guitar playing" songwriters, so Axel Rose, Perry Farel, and Billy Joel don't really count. I'm sure Joel can play the guitar, and maybe the others could play a chord or two, but I don't think so. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It looks like Dylan and Young are the clear winners ;)

DC

[nasum_human]

what about Eric Clapton? I consider him a talented songwriter and lyricist. Mikael Akerfeldt is my personal hero (he plays in Opeth, does vocals, guitars, pianos and everything else)
I think Neil Young is a strong songwriter, as was kurt cobain and bob dylan. Phil Anselmo is a poet of our generation in my eyes, gifted songwriter and musician
Max Cavalera of sepultura and soulfly, and paige hamilton of Helmet.
There really are countless great songwriters to choose from, often of different eras, and yeah I LOVE eddie vedder and pearl jam.
Layne staley and jerry cantrell were the guys who got me through my teens, and James Hetfield of metallica!

I'd say my top 5 are

1.Mikael Akerfeldt
2.James Hetfield
3.Eric Clapton
4.Layne Staley/Jerry Cantrell
5.Kurt Cobain

[farquharson]

All of the above mentioned are indeed great but would anyone mind if i also said that Hendrix was also a goog song wrighter, and even though most just think of him for his guitar playing his lyrics were just as good in their own way (dave.c sorry for not reading your question properly)

[David C]

No problem, farq, I just wanted to grab the bull by the horns before it rampaged down the wrong path. Vedder, Farel, and those guys are great, but they aren't guitar-people.

Yeah, Jimi was talented, but too bad his best song was written by Dylan ;)

Clapton deserves mention, too, but don't forget that "After Midnight" and "Cocaine" were written by J.J. Cale, who also wrote "They Call Me the Breeze." I would say JJ and Townes Van Zandt deserve honorable mentions. Keith Richards wrote some cool songs with Jagger. Who wrote Zeppelin's songs? They are stellar.

Many, many people deserve honorable mentions, but right now no one can even touch Dylan and Young when it comes to longevity, copiousness, and brilliance. By the way, I would rather hear Young play and sing, but Dylan writes better lyrics (and more of them!). I've seen Dylan, but not Young--yet.

DC

[nasum_human]

just a few points

Eddie Vedder does play guitar, especially on the more recent stuff, I've seen em live twice and he plays on around half the tracks :)
I forgot to Mention Pete Townshend, dont ask me why, but I would say HE is the greatest songwriter of all time
Led zep next, most of the songs were lyrics by plant, music by jimmy page, although john paul jones and john bonham co wrote on a few tracks, black dog is one that springs to mind
I personally would disagree with young and dylan being untouchable, I love neil young, but with 38 albums to his name, he's written some junk as well as some genius stuff
I dont rate the beatles much at all, but the sheer amount of people who love them, means they've got to have done SOMETHING right
and yeah Cale did write some of clapton's more popular tunes, but think about layla, have you ever loved a woman, tears in heaven, pilgrim, wonderful tonight, the list goes on, he's written some amazing material of his own too.
Peter Green is another fantastic songwriter, as is andy fraser, ok he's a bassist, but I had to slip him in
Honestly, it's all down to personal perference here, a song that speaks to one person, another person may hate, it's soo subjective, although I love talks like this, I love hearing about people I've never heard of, so I can check em out!

[taylormarkow]

i think john lennon was pretty good, and neil young.
jimi hendrix is my favorite guitarist, but he isnt much at writing lyrics.

[David C]

OK, Nasum, you're right about Clapton. He wrote some great stuff. And I agree that Young has written some crap over the years (especially that song "Piece of Crap" from "Sleeps with Angels" I think, which was really a piece!).

One name I haven't seen mentioned is Tom Petty. Recently inducted into the rock n' roll hall of fame, he's a living legend, in my opinion. Plays mostly rhythm, but he's a solid guitarist.

I didn't realize Vedder played guitar.

DC

[farquharson]

I prefer to listen to dylon more than young 4 dylon albums and 3 young albums.

It's just a shame that the artist's who have covered dylon songs have mannaged to make them sound a little bit better,
i would also say that young has s better voice..

[PENGUINZERO]

well i would have to say that Maynard James Keenan of TOOL is the greatest songwriter of all time....period. but of course someone will try to argue with me, so noone get upset, this is my opinion.

[David C]

Keenan certainly writes some interesting lyrics. On that note, what about Ween? They write crazy stuff. I saw them live once, and man were they wild! They kept making references to drinking Jack Daniels and smoking crack. I think they were partying pretty hard that night. Not really my kind of partying, but they were entertaining.

DC

[MikeP.]

dylon's a great musician but a terrible terrible singer. But at least he's got soul

[Azrael]

Jean Sibelius
Frank Zappa
Gentle Giant (Phil Shulman)
Cream (that was when Clapton used to make MUSIC *L*)
Jeff Beck
J.S. Bach
Heitor Villa Lobos
Andres Segovia

[MikeP.]

I would have to say Andre Segovia is the most important person ever in bringing the guitar to popularity. He lived in a time wear the guitar was considered primitive to the likes of anything in a symphony. He proved the guitar could be just as good and could be heard in large concert halls. Not to mention the technique he brought to the instrument. If Andre Segovia had never come along...I doubt the guitar would have the popularity that it enjoys today.

[Locomotive breath]

Hendrix is overrated to be quite honest about it. Plus he puked and died. How about Willie Nelson? Great writer and equally great guitarist. You can't forget Bocephus either.
I like AC/DC, ZZ-Top...oh.

[Azrael]

Originally posted by MikeP.
I would have to say Andre Segovia is the most important person ever in bringing the guitar to popularity. He lived in a time wear the guitar was considered primitive to the likes of anything in a symphony. He proved the guitar could be just as good and could be heard in large concert halls. Not to mention the technique he brought to the instrument. If Andre Segovia had never come along...I doubt the guitar would have the popularity that it enjoys today.

AMEN!!!! All hail andre! *LOL*

[Azrael]

Oh... and to my list i have to add

Béla Bartok
Benjamin Britten
Karl Orff
Dimitri Shostakovich

[taylormarkow]

what does hendrix puking and dieing have to do with his songwriting?

[Locomotive breath]

He could have been somebody had he some brains. Instead he chose to walk down that toxic path to nevermore and puked and died. What did he write that is so profound??? Foxxy Lady? Purple Haze? Common.

[lalimacefolle]

Do you know why Eddie Van Halen will never be a legend? Because he has a normal life, with kids and all... I do think that some kind of 'die while still at the peak' magic happens. Kurt Kobain, Jim Morrison, etc...

[Azrael]

Originally posted by Locomotive breath
What did he write that is so profound??? Foxxy Lady? Purple Haze? Common.

For his time it was - of course in days of dream theather and others it is nothing special.. but in his time he was the first doin thigs like this. If you would be the first doing something that has hardly ever been done before you would be proud, wouldnt you? and what would you think of peeps that tell you your stuff is "not so profund"?

Jethro Tull is also not too profound compared to nowadays musicians ;)

[pstring]

Lyle Lovett, Merle Haggard, Jackson Browne, Chuck Berry, hey not profound but cetainly prolific, Brian Wilson, Paul Simon, Willie, Sting, this list could go on forever, their are alot of good songwriters, I wouldn't take anything away from Segovia, but how did he wind up in a songwriter list? A transcriber of great works, which is an artform in it's self for sure, but I don't recall him writing any songs which is kind of essential to being a songwriter, I know I'm just being a pain.What qualifies one as being a Great Songwriter anyhow, is it popularity, or profoundness, quanity or quality, or does personal preference have alot to do with it, the reason I ask is because I see C.C. Deville mentioned(and others) and no one comments about a lack of profundity, but Hendrix is called overrated, I'll pick Burning of the Midnite Lamp or If 6 was 9, or anything off of Electric Ladyland over Unskinny Bop, if it's just about Hits, why didn't anyone mention Brooks and Dung, they crank out about 2 or 3 pieces of commercial tripe a week...

[VooDew5]

I don't know if there could be an "all-time Greatest" songwriter...It depends on taste...Lennon and McCartney have to rank because of success, but I'm not a big Beatles fan...Zappa was a bit strange but his guitar"isms" and songs had many moments of genius. (When asked once, Vai said "Frank Zappa invented the Steve Vai"!) There are too many great blues songwriters to mention if that's what you dig. (Muddy Waters, Willie Dixon, Robert Johnson should be considered because of the influence that is still notable.)
Clapton has been a successful and very eclectic songwriter covering many different musical eras and styles..

Blues and Jazz are my fav kinds of music and that's how I make my living, but I grew up in the 80's so most of my early influences are the Hard Rock and Metal guitarists from that era..I'm a bit partial to those dudes...John Sykes is probably my favorite guitarist/songwriter (since he's the reason Whitesnake enjoyed their worldwide fame!)

VooDew5
http://www.LAGroove.cc

[farquharson]

I hate to be the one to tell you but Hendrix is somebody,
for the past three years rinning he's been voted "best guitarist ever" does it matter that his words weren't amazing? NO!

[VooDew5]

I liked Hendix's lyrics...He wrote some cool lyrics

[lalimacefolle]

'Scuse me while I kiss the sky'
Awesome line, sorry, but it's totally cool!

[Locomotive breath]

Hendrix= over-rated guitarist.
Eddie Van Halen by the way, IS A LEGEND.

[pstring]

I think too many other "Legends" would disagree with that statement, I've never read one comment by any of the guitarists who were at the top when Hendrix got his start, that said anything else but how amazing they thought his playing was, he must have had something that made him stand out, almost 33yrs after his death people are still talking about him, buying his records, learning his licks and covering his songs, not bad for being overrated.......

[Locomotive breath]

That's because most people hop on bandwagons and adhere to the status quo. Don't get me wrong, I loved his playing but to say he's the all time great is a gross overstatement. Think about it. Was his playing at the time any better than that of Clapton or Beck?

[pstring]

Better is a difficult term, but certainly different and I think thats what got the attention of the English Blues Rockers, I think his approach to ryhthm separated him from the others, and his blurring of the line between lead and ryhthm I don't hear in the playing of his contempararies, I think Hendrix was also thought of as being closer to the blues, he was a black American among alot of white British guys that idolized the blues players they for a large part had only heard on records. As an afterthought, I think if you listen to any of the Cream records, the first Led Zep and Jeff Beck albums, and then hear Are You Experienced, Hendrix stands out as something different.......

[Paul John]

Lennon and Mcartney are the greatest song writers of all time . Any people that can create Sergeant Pepper and Revolver and Abbey Road and...

[Locomotive breath]

Originally posted by Paul John
Lennon and Mcartney are the greatest song writers of all time . Any people that can create Sergeant Pepper and Revolver and Abbey Road and...

Surley you jest...

[farquharson]

I am kind of a Lennon fan bet as far as Mcartnay goes he's over ratted end lives of the fame of the Beatles.
He's got tallent (but it isn't song writing!

[Paul John]

He does live off the beatles now but when he was a beatle he was great .

[metalisbest]

Jimmy Page
Mike Mushok
Chris Cornell
Eddie Vedder
Jerry Cantrell
Tom Morello

[aiwass]

(No particular order)

John Petrucci (although most of the band contributes to songwriting, he does a large part of it.)

Jeff Beck ("Where were you" from Guitar Shop, and "Nadia" from you had it coming are some of the most profound pieces of guitar music ever.)

Mikael Åkerfeldt from Opeth. Nuff said. Check 'em out and you'll agree.

All of Tool, but Maynard in particular.


James Hetfield.

[Cash Money]

hello... i'm a newbie here, and joined cause this thread interested me... and i'm all about Beck, Clapton, Hetfield/Hammett, Vai... and the others

But there is someone that i think is one of few artists that writes with thought and emotions, and pretty creative with the sounds he writes...which is extremely rare during these times...

But how about Johnny Rzeznik of the Goo Goo Dolls... You could actually follow him mature through the albums... The lyrics could be similar to your life, past or present...(well, to my life at least)... And the sound is unique in it's own, not like all the others these days that add depth by, for example, throwing in Turn Tables... The tunings are just amazing i think... between the drones of the open strings and overtones... it adds a lot of tone to it... but, it's a pain to play them as they are recorded since you'd have to tune your guitar almost after each song, and replace the strings that break along the way...i'll admit that...

i.e.
Here is Gone: C# G# C# G# C# F
Big Machine: D# A# A# D (with the D and high E strings hacked off)
Sympathy: C# G# C# F# C# F# (capo on 2nd fret)
Slide: D# A# D# G# D# D#
Black Balloon: Db Ab Db Ab Db Db
Iris: B D(down) D D(down) D(up) D(down)
Name: D A E A E E

just to name a few...

[metalisbest]

I don't like the Goo Goo Dolls that much, and just wondering what does your name, cash money, mean? u a rap fan?

[aiwass]

Ahem. Don't use the 'r' word in this forum, please. Especially not as this thread is about songwriting. Some words should never be combined...

[Cash Money]

Actually, cash money is my nick from High School... I was a good three point shooter back in the day... and people used to say i was money, then my one friend called my "cash money", as it matches my initials... and the name stuck... no association to the rap group...

As far as rap goes... i don't like alot of it, but some of it has a decent beat... and here's my theory on music...

A good Rap/R$B song could make you move... But only a good Rock song could truly move you...

[MikeP.]

I don't much like rap but I did like Run DMC back in the day. I also like Anthrax's I'm The Man (wich I got when it first came out...Actually my partents got me that album on christmas). I would say Anthrax was one of the first groups to combine metal and rap.

Anyone remember when Anthrax made a guest appearance on Married With Children? It was awsome! Pluss Al Bundy is my hero! lol :-p

[Cash Money]

hahaha... wasn't that the episode with peg's "mystery pack" or somthing and after they ate it they started to play???

Also, the other song they did with Public Enemy... Bring the Noise... is a cool song...

on a side note, I think i'm the only Goo Goo Dolls fan in the world...hahaha...

[MikeP.]

Hehehe. Yup, that was the episode :-)

They should put it on DVD like they did with the sopranos.

[aiwass]

Married with children f*cking rocks. I learned english from watching American TV shows when I was a toddler growing up in Norway, and I've been watching that show since i was five. Some say I watched it too much, cuz I ended up speaking the language before I started school...

Al Bundy is every man's hero.

[David C]

Thanks everybody for the insightful discussion over the summer about who is the greatest guitar-pickin' songwriter of all time.

And now the envelope please . . . .

The "Greatest Songwriter of all time" Award goes to . . . . (drumroll) . . . . .

Mr. BOB DYLAN!

Come on up here Bob!

Bob (wobbling a bit as he speaks, softly at first but gaining momentum as he goes until he ends with a thundering crescendo):

"Leave your stepping stones behind, they will not follow you,
Forget the dead you left behind, they will not follow you.
The vagabond who is knocking at your door,
Is standing in the clothes that you once wore.
Light another match, go on and start anew,
And it's all over now, Baby Blue."