how do you come up with imaginitive lyrics?

[tomisgod666]

do you ever find yourself just churning out the same old junk lyrics for every song you write? you know, like you end up with about 10 'album filler' songs but not one classic tune?? well thats wot i generally get, so how does ne1 else deal with this problem?

L8rs
Tom

[Christoph]

Try reading some classical literature, like Byron, Milton, Dante, Poe, etc. They can be a never-ending source of inspiration.

[lalimacefolle]

I sometimes try to 'shift the focus' of the song.
For example, if you write about a relationship, you could speak as the Bar the two lovers go to,

'they came here a lot
seems like it stopped
sometimes it's just love
that just comes and goes...'

Something I do a lot is write a word and for each letter, I start a sentence: (here the word is lalimace :D )

Low, low, low
Again, today I feel low
Low, low, low
I don't know, how long can I go?
Mother, I feel like a lost child
Alone, I bend my head and cry
Come on mother
End with your kisses, my endless tries...

[kingdavid]

I think it's about how good you are at storytelling.
You basically try and put yourself in the situation you're talking about,and then see how you'd react.
Then write about it.
You see how often you see actors/tresses shed real tears when they're just acting?That's what I'm talking about;wearing those shoes.
Or I'm not making any sense to you?
Go this page.It might help.
http://www.guitarnoise.com/songwriting.html
P.S.:For all my "knowledge" about songwriting,I've never written a single song.Poems,yes.Melodies on my recorder,yes.But a full song,no.
But I do know I can kick butt when I want.:)


[Edited by kingdavid on 06-10-2002 at 12:08 PM]

[aiwass]

Just do like metallica. Write the most epic lyrics ever based on some obscure horror story, a movie, a book, etc. Nobody can disagree with me when i say that James Hetfield writes brilliant lyrics....


Btw, if all else fails, just start playing extreme metal, where nobody can hear what you are saying anyway;)

[kingdavid]

Originally posted by aiwass
Just do like metallica. Write the most epic lyrics ever based on some obscure horror story, a movie, a book, etc. Nobody can disagree with me when i say that James Hetfield writes brilliant lyrics....


Btw, if all else fails, just start playing extreme metal, where nobody can hear what you are saying anyway;)
LOL
But seriously,this guy wants to be heard.

[aiwass]

Well my point was the metallica part... Writing good epic lyrics is much easier than writing good poppy lyrics that are simple.

[blackrose]

Listen to classical music a lot. I don't know how it works, but it frees something in your mind. Also what you can do, only more desperate, is to stay up til 2 in the morning drawing surrealistic art for a week and then start writing lyrics.

[educatedfilm]

Dont FORCE your self to write... seriously that's the quickest way to get writers block... just be imaginative, and remember it doesn't HAVE to make sense, and most of all, dont force rymes, it sounds strained and cheesy...
Off the top of my head (kinda like free style rap)... so, here it goes sukkas;

convulsive conservatives say
"an man with open mind
is a man with an empty head"
right wing radicals,
singing my obituary,
in a key not hither to
known to the poeple of these parts,
Still, a happy man is just a
happy man.
I cant fill the landfill,
but it's becoming a gaint
elephant trap.
Landslide elections,
mudslides in south america,
decomocrats selling conglomorates,
republicans selling ashes,
a raving tramp, lays wasted.

ps: the "a man with an open mind is a man with an empty head", is a real quote from a right winger. What was funny was the guy was quite clever, cos he set up some clever arguments, just sadly he was narrow minded on some topics. But to be fair he was for a an america where regardless of you race, you could be treated as an equal provided you didn't act against the intrests of the country or it's citizens and taken some initaitive to learn about the constitution. so that was kinda good.
but yeah, nonsense is good (much less restrictive)... cos some times you stop meanings you hadn't intended, and you could change it into something more sensible..

[*Chrissy*]

Listen to music you don't usually listen to and pick out some phrases you like the sound of. Chuck them down on a piece of paper in no particular order and try and think of some different words describing those phrases (by this point, it definately helps to know the topic of your song). You'll find you'll probably come up with some words that you reckon would sound real cool in a song. Use your words to link some of the ideas taken from the other songs, but make sure you're not directly taking anyones stuff, not only is it plagiarism, but it's degrading as a musician to break the unwritten law.

[taylormarkow]

write about stuff you can relate to,
or have experienced.

[nasum_human]

I actually write more poetry than lyrics, but I would imagine that the manner would be the same, I have to be in the right mood for creating that stuff, and I almost dont think of the words, I'll be at work or listening to music and a word or line will pop into my head, I start with that, I just write without thinking, it sounds dumb and it's hard to explain, but if you focus on the words you're writing too hard, you end up using the wrong side of your brain (this is my opinion, any brain surgeons among you feel free to disagree) I do all my creative things, be it lyrics or poetry, or my artwork when I'm listening to music, thinking of other things, although there IS a balance, if you think about other things too hard you cant think of lyrics.
I can honestly say, that once I was drawing a picture, and my hand with the pencil took on a life of it's own, I remember looking at it and thinking 'why are you doing THAT' but the pic turned out pretty well.
I hope my mystical way offers you some ideas.. if not, you can always laugh at the freak......

[§HraPnEl]

don't do what everyone else is doing, that's the best way to get some pretty cool lyrics. I myself am tired of songs about relationships and love. A good put-down song is always good though (nothing beats offspring at that, self-esteem and she's got issues rock!!) but try to stay away from love.

If all else fails, try this, it usually works for me (seriously). Go onto msn messenger/icq find a girl that likes you (if you are a girl, that might be a bit tricky). Its best if you don't like them. Tell them off, I mean, get into a HUGE argument, you'll usually write some pretty cool stuff that you don't notice. Once she has signed off crying, he he he, save the convo and go through it and find the coolest lines. Its a really good way to get some cool lyrics actually, although, now that I think about it, it is kinda mean.....

Oh well :D!

§HraPnEl

[lalimacefolle]

??? You're nuts... :)

[Locomotive breath]

Smoke pot. oh...

[taylormarkow]

that seemed to work for hendrix, didnt it?

[iamthe_eggman]

Here's a tip from one of the best that I've passed on to my band's main lyricist.

On a TV special, they followed Mick Jagger around for a while with a camera, and he described his procedure for writing lyrics. Basically, he writes a whole bunch of prose (i.e. ordinary writing, without a poetic quality), as the inspiration hits, in a small notebook he carries with him everywhere. Then, he listens to whatever Keith or whoever is writing the music side of it has for music, and he'll review that for a while, until something he has written in his book seems to fit and he'll begin improvising lyrics based on the ideas in his book.

This method is pretty good, and our lyricist uses it almost exclusively now.

[iiholly]

Write about something that doesn't relate to you at all, because if you write about stuff you know your gonna end up with the same stuff. Also, if your female when your pmsing is an ideal time to write lyrics :D.

[Shackell]

For those who are having trouble with lyrics...you're not writing enough. I've found the best way to get creative is to write down the same line in 16(very important) different ways.
What you will come up with is, many options with variable
syllable counts and probably some form of direction as
to a story line.
Writing 16 lines...regardless of what it is...sets up the
skeleton of the song. It makes the page full and will help
with the frustration of seeing blank paper.

[crazywolf]

A few years ago, I went through the same thing. I was going through a rather rough time in my life, which you would think would be a prime time to write, but I didn't feel like writing about only depressing things. There may not be anything right now that you can do do get out of your slump. You may just need to wait it out, maby not though. I was writing about mostly deep stuff. For me, my creative plateau ended when I found, and learned to harness my sence of humor. I started to write just crazy funny lyrics. I found that I bacame better at writing serious stuff for some strange reason. I started to carry around a notepad and just write in it; mostely because I have ADD and have the short term memory of a pot head, but it has dramatically improved my writing. I also realized that if nothing changes in your life, how can you expect your writing to change. Try new things, or do things out of the ordinary. But don't stop writing just because its nothing new or exciting. Just writing helps to get the creative juices flowing.

[Cryptic Excretions]

I used to have that problem but I began observing more things and seeing other things in different views. If you just write about hardships you're gonna run out of ways to express yourself with variety, however if you open your mind and absorb everything then you won't suffer from recycled lyrics quite as much. That takes care of that, now onto step number 2. I hate blunt lyrics. If my mind doesn't have something to wander with then I don't want to hear it, not to say I won't hear it, I'd just prefer it put better. Look at it like a salesman. Which would make more sales? "Would you like to buy this guitar?" or "Can't you envision yourself, up on stage, sold out audience, all cheering your name as you effortlessly drift into a solo, every note perfectly placed and bringing nothing but cheers of approval?" Don't settle for something that sounds stupid. Make us feel it, make us understand. What always helps is a rhyming dictionary, thesaurus and a dictionary. I keep those three books nearby when I sit down to write lyrics and I've gotten noticably better since my lyrical dawn. Also, reading old English literature helps too. Having said this all, hoping that at least someone reads it all, I've noticed I have really long posts. Does anyone think I over do it?

[crazywolf]

Does anyone think I over do it?
Nope! It"s good advice, and sometimes you can't shorten that, or don't want. I have a dictionary and a thesaurus with me at all times when I write also. Those things definately help out a lot!!!

[Cryptic Excretions]

Nope! It"s good advice, and sometimes you can't shorten that, or don't want. I have a dictionary and a thesaurus with me at all times when I write also. Those things definately help out a lot!!!

So long as I'm not being redundant.

[paradyme]

Just do like metallica. Write the most epic lyrics ever based on some obscure horror story, a movie, a book, etc. Nobody can disagree with me when i say that James Hetfield writes brilliant lyrics....


Btw, if all else fails, just start playing extreme metal, where nobody can hear what you are saying anyway;)


I disagree emphatically. I think he's terrifyingly predictable, and he is because if you can figure out who his source is, it's like a connect the dots puzzle- amusing when you're like 6 but after that... well not so much...

[paradyme]

Here's a tip from one of the best that I've passed on to my band's main lyricist.

On a TV special, they followed Mick Jagger around for a while with a camera, and he described his procedure for writing lyrics. Basically, he writes a whole bunch of prose (i.e. ordinary writing, without a poetic quality), as the inspiration hits, in a small notebook he carries with him everywhere. Then, he listens to whatever Keith or whoever is writing the music side of it has for music, and he'll review that for a while, until something he has written in his book seems to fit and he'll begin improvising lyrics based on the ideas in his book.

This method is pretty good, and our lyricist uses it almost exclusively now.


that works well - the thing is that you may have even a phrase that hits you... WRITE IT DOWN! Build off it later- you may not write The Wasteland in one sitting, but you may find that phrase becomming a line and maybe a verse. I would say become a verbal pack-rat! Write as much down as possible and do not delete anything. You'll be surprised by how quick things start coming together.

Oh yeah, and smoking herb helps too!

BONG!

[Jolly McJollyson]

Oh yeah, and smoking herb helps too!

BONG!
Let's try to keep our advice responsible. :rolleyes:

[chucklivesoninmyheart]

Waking from a dream with it fresh in your mind is indespensible for writing emotive/epic lyrics...even more so when you have a night terror and it 'sticks with you' throughout the day...

I woke up today after a night long struggle of a dream(I'm actually mentally exhausted).It had quite a bit to do with the novel IT by stephen king,but different in so many different way's...not to mention I was experiencing it first hand...the feelings that passed through me,the pain I felt as I watched myself being slowly crushed under a slow moving train...worse than any snuff film ive ever seen.The train pushed off..I screamed,losing breath as the train surreally rolled over my spine and ruptured my lifes sustanince.

The emotions conveyed within dreams can be so foriegn...things that can never be felt while awake.Its not to say these feeling and events do not occur in reality..but the intensity lends different perspective...even though you wake up intact.

[paradyme]

Let's try to keep our advice responsible. :rolleyes:


I of course was referring to the non tobacco herbal blends you get at those stores that sell all the neat glass concoctions. That stuff is all for tobacco use only right? So I'm not sure what you mean by responsible. I'm trying to keep the readership from getting hooked on nicotine while helping to um.. -ahem- guide, yes guide them to an alternative that is neither intoxicating nor addictive, so I must ask for clarification here... ;)

[Jolly McJollyson]

guide them to an alternative that is neither intoxicating nor addictive, so I must ask for clarification here... ;)
Not PHYSICALLY addictive, you mean

[Cryptic Excretions]

I wrote lyrics about 10-15 minutes ago. I had the idea on the way home from work and I sat down and just started writing my ideas. Next thing I know I've got lyrics. I'd give some details but I get the feeling that speaking of "herbs" and "bongs" is irresponsible then I should just keep quiet. But they're good.

[paradyme]

I wrote lyrics about 10-15 minutes ago. I had the idea on the way home from work and I sat down and just started writing my ideas. Next thing I know I've got lyrics. I'd give some details but I get the feeling that speaking of "herbs" and "bongs" is irresponsible then I should just keep quiet. But they're good.


whatever it takes to bring it out of you. everybody has their own ways to bring it out, so while my suggestion works for me, well, I shouldn't say that- I can write lyrics regardless of my toxicology, but I find that I tend to be less inhibited lyrically and often more playful with my lyrics- my style lends itself readily to that, but it doesn't work for everyone. Glad you have somre lyrics down though- what kind of stuff do you write?

peace

[paradyme]

Not PHYSICALLY addictive, you mean


I must have been um... hungry and tired and a little bit confused... ;) I forget how this all started.

Hey any new recordings- I was actually going to name your band in the instrumental thread, because that stuff is DOPE!

[Jolly McJollyson]

I must have been um... hungry and tired and a little bit confused... ;) I forget how this all started.

Hey any new recordings- I was actually going to name your band in the instrumental thread, because that stuff is DOPE!
Are you asking me? Because we have a name, hahaha. Thanks, though, but we won't have any new recordings until this summer.

[paradyme]

no I know the name, I meant name like to say your band's name as someone to check out. Let me know when you have more stuff out!

[Jolly McJollyson]

no I know the name, I meant name like to say your band's name as someone to check out. Let me know when you have more stuff out!
Well thanks a lot, man! I'll be sure to let you know when we finish our CD.

[Aurel]

I steal phrases from the masters and rework them with my thesaurus. Its all about turning a phrase to make it fresh and subing words in phrases can lead you into something new and stimulate a different perspective.

"Before its all been done, or does it just seem so?"
" It all seems done before. But that just can't be so."

You can stumble on some great hooks this way. Just open your mind and play some word games. ;)

[Cryptic Excretions]

Glad you have somre lyrics down though- what kind of stuff do you write?


Just depends on my current observations. I'm quite the metal head so a lot of my lyrics are based around brutality and horror. At the same time I'm quite... progressive, to say the least so I don't always thrive on the above stated. I've had a number of personal experience/observations that I've written down and intend on making something with once I learn "how to put it". Some of my stuff is really stupid and utterly senseless ranting, but the majority of it, I'd say, is quite in depth and observant. My lyric writing is in spurts, I think up a good line then it goes dry, getting better though. It's just about letting it flow for me, I don't rush it.

[fastelvis]

Aside from what is considered "standard arrangement", a couple of tips I received from successful songwriters:
1. The song should tell a complete story.
2. It should allow simple imagination to establish the meaning, trigger an emotion or relate directly to the experience. Not a lot of thought required by the listener.
3. All segments of the entire song (both lyric and instrument) should tie together in a logical sequence.

Now #3 is kind of vague, so think of a song like one piece of rope with different knots tied along it's length. The knots are different; some big, small, simple, complex and some repeat, but it is still the same piece of rope. i.e- If you start with chain, stay with chain, just tie different knots in it. Don't lose the "tone".

Since I'm more of a guitarist than a vocalist, I used to fall into the trap of forcing my lyrics/melodies to fit within a finished chord progression or entire instrumental arrangement (the knots were already tied). Now, when I find a nice guitar hook, I stop (tie that knot) and immediately try to dig out the emotion of the hook (soft rope, iron cable, hose, whatever). Translate that emotion to a real or imagined experience, then start writing the story (lyric/melody). Then I write the instrumental arrangement to fit the lyrics (tie different knots to fit the story without changing the material tone). This allows your lyrics to develop freely with more available vocabulary. You may also find yourself being more creative in the instrumental development as well.