Words of wisdom

[pickin4life]

Ive been playing guitar for about six months. I dont take lessons or anything I just learned really from watching people and learning basic chords like G,C,D,E,and A. Thats really all anyone ever taught me. The rest I just picked up by watching other people and playing around 4 to 6 hours a day. Im trying to put a band together. Could anyone give me some advice on how to learn songs faster cause mainly I just read tabs and listen to the song. But tabs are usually wrong. Everyonce in awhile u find a good one. Well any other words of advice are welcomed and I thank you very much for all ur help. Thanx guys. ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!!!

[BlackBox]

hmm, well I found it really hard to learn without a teacher. I played guitar for 2 years by myself. I got absolutly nowhere, when I was trying to do what your doing. Now I have a great teacher who I can bring the cd in and he'll pretty much show me how to play it, WITHOUT TAB! I find that insanly cool. But anyways If I were you, I would (1)find a teacher (2)Get good (3) make a band.

I have a band now that is pretty much in the making. We all are pretty much new to the musicain world and the bassist doesn't even have a bass, lol. But ya, I would totally recommend getting good before you try and make a band. It just doesn't work when all the band members totally suck, lol.

[pickin4life]

How far did u get without a teacher. I mean im pretty far. I want to take lessons I just dont wanna have to go through learning theory again cause I learned it at school.

[lalimacefolle]

If your teacher is a smart guy, he'll take you where you want to go, not where he thinks you should go.
A teacher is one who has walked the path once, so he can SHOW what's next, it's YOUR call to say if you want to go there or not.
Now, he might say it's the most stupid thing he's ever heard, but that's not what my students say...

[pickin4life]

I want to take lessons I just dont want to learn theory over. I may try and see how it goes. Although I think im advancing pretty quickly without lessons. I wonder if the greats like Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn, BB King, and other such spectacular musicians had to take lessons???

[Led Zeppelin]

i dont thnk any of them did

[pickin4life]

Well if the greats didnt have to take lessons then I dont think I want to. Its one thing to say someone taught u how to play guitar but its greater to say u taught urself. ROCK ON.

[Led Zeppelin]

NOOOO, thats not what I meant.

Besides, BB King cant playa nd sing at the same time and Clapton has a pretty lousy technique. Its there melodies and musical knowledge that put them ahead.

[pickin4life]

Well maybe BB King cant play and sing or Clapton has lousy technique. But they are still THE BEST. We all have our week points. So if they can do it. I can do it. Maybe I wont get anywhere. Or maybe I will. U know that old song if it will it will and if it wont it wont. And if its their melodies and musical knowledge that got them where they are today maybe I need some of that melody and knowledge. Or maybe I already have it and need to reveal it or find it. U never know. But u can only go as far as ur dreams. So I think ill stick with my plan and ROCK ON!!!!!!

[lalimacefolle]

well, BB used to sing every sunday in a choir at church, and he has played the guitar for them after a while. It's not really 'lessons' but I guess you can consider that he has been taught by everyone in this choir.
Last time, I have played with a full organ for a wedding, and dude, that taught me a lesson in 'spectrum placement' cause if you play with a rock band and nobody can hear you, you can turn it up or play harder... That doesn't work with a church organ (cause it's so loud. You have to find the spot that the organ isn't filling...
After a while, we have played an improvised Fugue, that was so cool... Every musical experience is a lesson, to me...

[Incidents Happen]

thats incredible dumb philosophy, and its ignorant to think that 'THE BEST' don't take lessons. Any great guitar player would (if possible) tell you that they would have taken lessons if they either (A. Had the money, B. if there WERE any places that had lessons, they were really rare back then).
Another point - is it your goal to be 'the best'? you must obviously (if you dont already) find out that there is no 'the best', and its an art, not a sport, and the only champions are the people who play exactly what they want to play, and not what somebody says to play.
aanoooother thing - although optional, its probably not the best idea to end every post "ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" since really we already know.
however- if you have such an ego to think that you can be 'THE BEST!!!!!!!' by doing everything yourself, good luck to you.

EDIT - meant to say "didnt have the money", not "had the money". Alot of guitarists were poor when they started playing.

[Edited by Incidents Happen on 06-02-2002 at 07:31 PM]

[Led Zeppelin]

If you have the money to get lessons - why not? y'know..

It cant hurt, your only argument not to get them is that youll have to learn theory again - I dont get that, if you knwo theory why would you learn it agin, or if youve forgotten it youll relearn alot quicker - whats the problem?

[pickin4life]

Well ive ready everyones reply and I thank you for all the USEFUL information. BUT I do have an ego and along with that ego comes respect. Respect for not only other peoples opinions but for music itself. So (incidents happen) learn to respect other peoples opinions also. Maybe it is a dumb philosophy to think that there is a best at something but its my opinion. And if u think about it, in my opinion I dont think legends like BB King and such would have taken private lessons. Whats the point of going somewhere and learning something when everyone else can go learn it to. So if ur showin off to some friends ur like "I learned how to play that new song on the radio with my guitar." So they come back in a week and their like I learned to play it to. Theres no point in it. But if u teache ur self how to play guitar and u use ur own method and technique then you are original. You came up with it. A hundred and fifty people cant go take lessons and learn the same thing. And if they do u will be noted for creating it. Just like they did when the guitar was invented or whatever. Thats what keeps music fresh and unique, not boring and all the same. And if I wanna end every fu**ing post or reply with ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!! I will. So, fu**ing ROCK ON.

[Seiko_Hejiro]

While i would agree that taking lessons does in fact give way to tranmission of the guitar teachers own person style to the student, if you already have some playing habits that are a bit off from the base standard for "how to paly guitar properly" most gutiar teachers will give youpointers on how to improve your playing with what you are currently doing, especially if your technique already works fine for getting the sound you want.

My advice is consider this, lessons are good for two or three basic things, learning to play in general, learning to play a differnet style that perhaps you don't know already, and learning theory for the gutiar.

If you want to explore and learn a new style on the guitar finding a teacher that specializes in that style would be to your adantage.

As for the Tablature, seriously if at all possible find a tab book. Tab books are usually excessively thorough and done by people with really good ears for music not the bands themselves. Tabs on the internet are usually crap and done by someone who had some free time and in most cases little to no talent for the guitar in the first place trying to play a song they liked. Also work on developing your musical ear, it should come fairly natural after a while. Though if you have an ear for music just figure a song out for yourself and train your ear more by doing so.

Also if you are gonna get that band together find musicians that are at a similar stage in their skill and development as you so that the technical skill levels are about the same. Though with stict practice for more thatn 2 horus a day one can improve dramatically over a few months.

Anyhow i'm done rambling on and on, hope that helps out a bit.

[lalimacefolle]

As a guitar teacher, I know that lessons multiply the potential of improvement greatly for any students. Of course, talented ones, that have a good ear, great rhythm, and talent, won't need a teacher to express themselves on the guitar. But with a teacher, they'll be able to express themselves in a lot of ways, and better.
I have been self taught and I have taken lessons quite late in my playing, and I guess I know both ways. I know I could have never reached the level I have reached without my teachers (but I wouldn't be as bizarre if I weren't self taught...)

[yukonc5]

I must have missed something, at what time did respect become a God given gift and not something that was to be earned ?
signed,
just curious

[lalimacefolle]

I'm afraid I don't get your point?

[pickin4life]

Respect is earned. But not showing the least bit of respect for something you have no idea about doesnt earn u any. I know a little about everything I talk about otherwise I wouldnt talk about it. Hell i dont know what to say right now im in the middle of writing a song let me get back to ya on this.

[^Chacron^]

Originally posted by Seiko_Hejiro


As for the Tablature, seriously if at all possible find a tab book. Tab books are usually excessively thorough and done by people with really good ears for music not the bands themselves. Tabs on the internet are usually crap and done by someone who had some free time and in most cases little to no talent for the guitar in the first place trying to play a song they liked.


Not always....

I've found tab which is exactly what you describe there but some net tab I've used has proven invaluable....although I have to wonder sometimes how many people have copied tab straight from the official book to try and make themselves look good....some tabs seem too good to be true....but who cares, it saves money :)

[Raskolnikov]

Originally posted by pickin4life
Respect is earned. But not showing the least bit of respect for something you have no idea about doesnt earn u any. I know a little about everything I talk about otherwise I wouldnt talk about it. Hell i dont know what to say right now im in the middle of writing a song let me get back to ya on this.

I'm self taught too (have been for eight years) and I think you're talking out of your butt. Ever read an interview with BB King? He wishes he was a better technician. He also learned by imitation. That famous style of his was conjured up by imitating the sound of slide guitar - something he loves the sound of but could never do himself.

Incidents and lalimacefolle both hit the nail squarely on the head - teaching yourself may make you sound more unique, but a teacher will accelerate the learning process. On the other hand, Frank Zappa was highly schooled in music yet he also had a very unique sound and style. Arguably the most brilliant composer of our time, and definately one of "The Greats."

Chances are that if you've really got it in you to come with something original you'll do it with or without the benefit of lessons. In the mean time you want to learn faster yet your ears and the tablatures you find aren't enough; I say that the solution to your problem is very clear.

"I was self taught for thirty years. That means that I spent thirty years learning from somebody who didn't know squat."
-Poorly quoted from Lordathestrings

[Incidents Happen]

Originally posted by pickin4life
Well ive ready everyones reply and I thank you for all the USEFUL information. BUT I do have an ego and along with that ego comes respect. Respect for not only other peoples opinions but for music itself. So (incidents happen) learn to respect other peoples opinions also. Maybe it is a dumb philosophy to think that there is a best at something but its my opinion. And if u think about it, in my opinion I dont think legends like BB King and such would have taken private lessons. Whats the point of going somewhere and learning something when everyone else can go learn it to. So if ur showin off to some friends ur like "I learned how to play that new song on the radio with my guitar." So they come back in a week and their like I learned to play it to. Theres no point in it. But if u teache ur self how to play guitar and u use ur own method and technique then you are original. You came up with it. A hundred and fifty people cant go take lessons and learn the same thing. And if they do u will be noted for creating it. Just like they did when the guitar was invented or whatever. Thats what keeps music fresh and unique, not boring and all the same. And if I wanna end every fu**ing post or reply with ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!! I will. So, fu**ing ROCK ON.

Once again, that was my opinion that you have dumb philosophy, so respect it! An ego, comes respect? An ego does nothing but disrespect the other members of your band that isn't in existence yet. All an ego like yours does is disrupt any possible connection between you and ANY member of your band. I don't mean love connection, i mean an actual musical connection, one that can only be achieved by the 'Death of Ego' as myself and Trey anastasio and several other guitar players name it. At the death of Ego, you stop completely trying to impress anybody and the whooole musical sense drives even more in you than ever you imagined...like a feeling of nirvana. anyways, you cannot accomplish this with a "Im the best" attitude, because nobody will want to jam with you then.
I myself have been playing for 1 year 2 months, at 6 hours a day (up to 8 now) and could walk up on stage with a guitar and sit in, with just about ANY band, and they'd probably dig the sound.
I do not have an ego...at least not very much of one, it has been shattered by my character.
Once again, i do not brag, show off, or any of that to my friends, i sit at home, play guitar, and thats that. It is hypocrites like you ("i respect people's opinions" then in the next sentence start bitchin at my opinion. )

"Judge Not, Before you Judge Yourself."

I have judged myself on the basis that i simply play guitar, and have an uncommon taste for it, (8 hours a day, sometimes 10 or 11), and that i know things every musician should know. Respect that.

[Led Zeppelin]

Do you play rhyth or lead? or both?

Just about saying you could fit into any band.

[THE_HACK_PACK]

You ever notice that if a doctor,mechanic or dentist say their good,no one ever gives them a problem.No one ever says,"That mechanic thinks highly of himself,what an ego trip".

Only the art of guitar,must we suffer on,alone.

Or Something.


http://www.deadleaves.com

[Led Zeppelin]

Im sure if they were at a mechanics convention theyde hear all about it.

I think very highly of people who admit they are good, shows they arent afraid to be honest. As long as you can back it up, and its not meant in a self-indulgent way its ok.

[THE_HACK_PACK]

I remember back in July of '91,the last fleeting moments of The Hair Bands,I saw this band at a local club.The guitar player for the opening band joined us at our table,was introduced by someone,and then calmly said,"I can destroy anyone,just name the time and place."

My friends and I just sat there and collectively went,"Ahhhhhhh,,,,Yeah."
We never saw or heard of this dude again,but,damn,thats what I call an ego trip to the max.



http://www.deadleaves.com

[lalimacefolle]

Incidents, now I'm sorry, but you have become a self-indulgent-crap-talking-hot-head. You are the first to judge, telling how 'dumb (someone's) philosophy' is. I'm sorry, but that doesn't work.
I'm absolutely sure you can't sit with any band at all. And even if you were the new Hendrix, with that kind of attitude, you'll get nowhere.
Last night, there was a quite good sax player on a jam I was participating in. But he spoiled everything because he thought he knew better. Well, us stringers shut the ****er up by just playing those awesome grooves with the drummer that left no spot for him to solo over (he wanted to solo, **** the exchange) I had a blast, he didn't, **** him...

[Blaksmith]

Re: B.B. King and self teachings.

You make a very cool point. Some folks ( like you and others here) have the gift of making music and a passion to stay with it. I wanna, I just haven't set aside the extra time I know I will need. That leads us to the slippery slope of instruction. I guess it's a matter of asking around and finding the person that can explain things in a way that make sense to you as a student. I let you know when I find that type of instructor for me.

Frank Zappa. Light years ahead of his time in music and the rights of freedom of expression. I sit smugly ( In his honor ) at the thrashing he gave a young Tipper Gore and the P.M.R.C. that sat straight backed and slack jawed at the man before them in hearings about ' obcenities ' in music so many years ago. They could not keep up with his mind so they hid behind the values they thought all of America was lacking. ( They: P.M.R.C. ) I wonder what we would have heard from him these days if he were still around.

Quote: In the mean time you want to learn faster yet your ears and the tablatures you find aren't
enough; I say that the solution to your problem is very clear

I have to bust hump to play the easiest of tunes, but I know that and I don't mind.

I'll be over by the dental floss bush... :D

[Raskolnikov]

"I wonder what kind of toys your children might have-"
FZ: "Well, why?"
"ah.. just as a point of interest-"
FZ: "Well, come right on over to the house, I'll show them to you"
::uproarous laughter in the room::
"I-I just might take you up on that"
::people still laughing::

Frank Zappa Meets The Mothers of Prevention is quite the album.

[Incidents Happen]

i didnt mean like ****in rippin it up or anything lal, and when i meant 'any' i meant alot of bar bands, not Frank Zappa or something.

[THE_HACK_PACK]

Blaksmith said:
Some folks ( like you and others here) have the gift of making music and a passion to stay with it. I wanna, I just haven't set aside the extra time I know I will need.



I figured out a way around this in my teen years,I don't advise it to anyone,unless your a real James Dean type and can stand the heckles.I took my guitar everywhere,literally.Had it strapped on my back,and I'd go see friends,the arcade,the local cruising strip,the town hang out,bush parties,I always had it with me and was able to have a social life at the same time,while getting in tons of practice.Mind you now,I usually kept whipping thru scales,so it wasn't important that I heard what I was doing.But you get a lot of looks from people,passerbys throwin me quarters,people singin "Dead or Alive" from Bon Jovi,stuff like that.

I don't believe this is a great way to get practice time in,and I don't advise it at all,unless you got a set,and you like to get attention.
It's also a good way to cause accidents,cuz you'll see these people drive by and twist their necks like contortionists,and these strange faces like I just sliced some fresh onions in a church.But,for my sake,it paid off,and I solved the problem of being the kid who couldn't go out cuz he had to practice,I just brought the practice with me.

Good Luck,Carry On!!!!

[Edited by THE_HACK_PACK on 06-05-2002 at 06:57 PM]

[PonyOne]

Here's what I did:

-dropped out of high school
-took a job making pizzas long enough to get an SG & Vox
-quit
-woke up @ 2pm, practiced till eight (pised off my g/f)
-got a better job
-got a few more guitars, cut back hours playing, started having more sex
-stopped eating meat
-got a beat box
-started playing death metal

and here I am now.

[Bardsley]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only vegetarian here. Is it for health reasons, or what? I remember your old signature, and occaisionally thought of stealing it. I admire the conviction to be Vegan, but, well, I just love cheese too much, that's all it comes down to.

[PonyOne]

The debate has gone on for awhile whether or not to put up the old sig (for those who don't recall or weren't here, it was "still not vegan"), and have ended up landing on "nah." Feel free to swipe it.

I went primarily out of selfish reasons, i.e. hey the animals will die no matter what, but i can lose a hundred pounds and quit smelling like warm dough & tack a good 20 years on to my life by ceasing consumption of meat. After awhile the other ideals started to shine up to me, and I can feel a degree of pride in the fact that I have a "ripped" physique and can still rock long & hard (in more ways than one) and not rely on the lives of other creatures in the process. But my girlfriend still eats meat, and I don't try & stop her; the only vegan-esque thing about my attitude is that I will not tolerate people consuming duck around me. I can accept cows, chickens, lambs, pigs etc but I've always loved ducks, and the thought of one of those cute little things with the comical looking beak getting slaughtered revolts me. Other than that I could really care less what people eat.

What's kinda cool is that my attitude towards vegetarianism has rubbed off on people who haven't ever given it thought at all, or have even been hostile to it, because I am still a relatively OK and normal person, and it usually takes about a month for people to find out, like when they offer me a slim jim or slice of pizza with pepperoni and i pass, and they ask why, and my response is "awh, i don't eat meat. *yawn*"

Nowadays there are so many meat substitutes out there that taste as good if not better than their real counterparts, I don't miss it at all. It was also a helluva lot easier than i thought.

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by PonyOne
the only vegan-esque thing about my attitude is that I will not tolerate people consuming duck around me.

Me too but tahts case duck is horrible. Actually all birds tatste horrible, I only like beef really.

[PonyOne]

I didn't consume bird for a good seven years before i went totally vegetarian for the same reason... I could never tolerate the odor long enough to get it in my mouth to be revolted by the taste.

[Azrael]

Originally posted by pickin4life
Could anyone give me some advice on how to learn songs faster cause mainly I just read tabs and listen to the song. But tabs are usually wrong.

Hi!

Well.. i recently found a nice plugin for winamp which is very usefull for tabbing out songs - its called "Pace maker" - you can slow down a song without changing the pitch of it - that makes it alot easier to tab it out. its freeware - just look it up on the net somewhere.

[Thomyorke575]

Well I am self taught myself and if I wasnt the incrediblly compulsive person I am I would have quit. You have an extrememly long road ahead and I'd recommend lessons. I was once in your shoes "well I think I have been doing good one my own, so why get lessons now"? Well let me tell you honestly with only 6 months of learning by yourself you have to face it the odds are against you, most likely to put it simply, you must suck. Cause I know I did and everyone I know that had only been playing for 6 months did too, it takes a long time but you will see yourself getting better and it will be worth it. There is soo much theory and techniques that you havent even hit the tip of the iceberg yet regardless of if you think you have.

Don't get me wrong it is possible to teach yourself but takes alot more work and extreme amounts of struggling and dedication, however I did it and know others that did it and it is definitley possible.

If you want to teach yourself you still must learn theory anyone of marginally good playing understands theory.

Heres a few steps when teaching yourself(they are not in any particular order)


1) Buy Begining asoustic guitar(it is applicable to electric as well and is a great tool) By Greg Horne. There are three of them after 4-6 months get the next and so on.

2) Get a metronome- Practice the exercises within the book while keeping a rythm by utilizing a metronome.

3) Study music styles and find out what you want to learn

4) Learn easy songs that you like and try to cover them learn the vocal melodies

5) Learn the intervals-they are the building blocks of music and very important

6) Learn the major scale and all its positions

7) Learn how to read tab, dont waste your time with standard notation (thats my opinion).

8) Try to get another guitar player to practice with and try doing blues progressions, trade-offs, alternate on solo-ing...etc..

9) As you practice your scales sing the notes it will improve your relative pitch

10) Practice regularly like 2 sessions of 1 hour a day if you can. I feel the more the merrier however make sure its structured time

11) keep a journal

12) Learn the CAGED theory

13) Practice doing chord speed drills- Take a dozen chords and practice alternating between them as you learn new ones add them to the list.


This will take a while to learn all this however it will let you see if you have the ability, time, and patience to teach yourself. If this fails get lessons, I think most self taught people wish they could go back and take lessons, you will undoubtedly be better with them. However I have gotten pretty decent on my own and am proud of that!

Good luck,

Thomyorke575

[nechako]

All the greats took lessons of some sort, sitting listening absorbing. BB king was asked for advice on this topic at UBC once, he advized to do as he did and learn to read music and play in all keys. SRV spent years learning from his older brother and "absorbing" (learning,...lessons) from people in his daily life. Learning to read music is like learning to read and write a language "english", it would be very difficult if not impossible to become a writter without learning to read and write. Same with music. Without these abilities your musical vocabulary will be limited, and the ability to communicate also. Some students of mine over the years have refused this advice and proclaimed to have a false magical "gift' to play by ear. Ten years later they are still playing the same fragmented Metallica riffs poorly and are no longer the life of the party, but the joke. Why only play with one sense, use all ear, hands, body, mind soul, art brain, logic brain, emotions. Why have tunnel vision when all the peripheral is available.
Like BB king I am no genius at site reading,...give me my part for a show and I'll be ready in a week, more than ready, I have the option now to use both ear, reading, tab, etc. Modern Guitar Method 1,2,3 by William Leviatte(spelling?) any ways Berklee press, it is on line.
Imagine a world if Shakespear was illiterate or J.S.Bach chose not to write and read music, just play it by ear,...Megadeath, Malstiem,...Vai...Satch....Van Halen,...Randy Rhoads,...etc. would have had nothing to go on.



[Edited by nechako on 06-11-2002 at 01:12 PM]