What makes a great song?

[Andy Miller]

Everyone seems to look for different things in a song. What are the main aspects that you look for? How do you write something good? For me, good writing is all about song structure, the flow between sections, and overall melody. Without these, there's not much that you can do (even with good rhythm, lyrics, and emotion). That's my opinion. What's yours?

[JoaquinCastillo]

Everyone seems to look for different things in a song. What are the main aspects that you look for? How do you write something good? For me, good writing is all about song structure, the flow between sections, and overall melody. Without these, there's not much that you can do (even with good rhythm, lyrics, and emotion). That's my opinion. What's yours?

Structure is BIG part of any great song. I say it´s also the sum of its components. Is there a great song with a bad beat or lyrics? Also, it needs a hook, something set it apart from the rest. It could be ANYTHING, and that´s what keeps songwriting interesting a rewarding.

[Allen Hopgood]

Totally agree with everything that you guys have said. But most listeners don't know about flow, structure and what a hook is. The listener (and any songwriter/music lover for that matter) wants a lyric they can connect with. It's all about how it makes them feel. Most people say "oh that's a great song" or "I love this song' don't they when they hear it? Or if it is an instrumental piece its the emotion or journey they are taken on. They can't explain 'why' it just 'does' for them.

Now if you can combine a lyric they connect with and musically it stirs some emotion(s) you have a timeless song.

Anyone rememeber Nirvanas "Smells like teen spirit" or "Sweet Home Alabama" by Lynard Skynard?

[carlos-k]

"Sweet Home Alabama" by Lynard Skynard - Yeah I definitely have heard of that. It's really a cool song.

And as for me, I love songs with a nice, harmonious melodies and inspiring lyrics. I also like when the composition and arrangement entails voicing for the vocals. However, lately, I've been listening to Matt Maher's Alive Again. For me, it rocks! :)

[Andy Miller]

Totally agree with everything that you guys have said. But most listeners don't know about flow, structure and what a hook is. The listener (and any songwriter/music lover for that matter) wants a lyric they can connect with. It's all about how it makes them feel. Most people say "oh that's a great song" or "I love this song' don't they when they hear it? Or if it is an instrumental piece its the emotion or journey they are taken on. They can't explain 'why' it just 'does' for them.

Now if you can combine a lyric they connect with and musically it stirs some emotion(s) you have a timeless song.


Interesting thought, Allen. Any ideas on language that explains it in non-musical speak?

[Allen Hopgood]

"Sweet Home Alabama" by Lynard Skynard - Yeah I definitely have heard of that. It's really a cool song.

And as for me, I love songs with a nice, harmonious melodies and inspiring lyrics. I also like when the composition and arrangement entails voicing for the vocals. However, lately, I've been listening to Matt Maher's Alive Again. For me, it rocks! :)

Will check that out Carlos, thanks.

[Allen Hopgood]

Interesting thought, Allen. Any ideas on language that explains it in non-musical speak?

That's Amore. How do I know when its love? Sometimes its all double dutch to me Andy :)

[Paul Moliukov]

Everyone seems to look for different things in a song. What are the main aspects that you look for? How do you write something good? For me, good writing is all about song structure, the flow between sections, and overall melody. Without these, there's not much that you can do (even with good rhythm, lyrics, and emotion). That's my opinion. What's yours?

Hi dudes,

IMO literally ANY element(s) can turn the song into a masterpiece: rhythm, melody, harmony, lyrics, structure, even one single note. The keys to success are:
1. composer's "luck". I don't mean the type of "luck" that "falls from the sky" but essentially it's a result of composer's mastery and experience. See, song can be very cool in terms of "music rules and theory" but don't keep any "aftertaste" in your mind/heart. This "aftertaste" is exactly the power that makes you to listen the song more and more times.
2. performing musician's "luck". Again, it's all about mastery and experience. One musician can play 100 notes and say nothing, another one says everything by playing a single note over solo section. I prefer the second one who plays very "consciously" and with great FEELING. It's not about "what" you play, it's all about "how" you play:)

[Matteo Miller]

When I write songs, I don't use my guitar. I have my music come directly from my heart, my head, my mind, my body, my spirit...

I rely ENTIRELY on ear training. I do use my knowledge of modes and arpeggios and music theory to an extent, because I know which note sounds like what when I see it, but I compose without my guitar.

I use Guitar Pro! :D pressing buttons, and using my ear to hear the next note.

I've come up with very interesting chord inversions, suspensions, techniques, and all that... The coolest thing about it is that it sounds more like music, rather than licks strung together...

But I think very much about the element of Rhythm. I think that is the most important element... I've written an article about it, you might think to check it out.. http://guitarlessonsinsandiego.com/IntroductionRhythmTheory.html

It got good reviews on ultimate guitar, so you might like it :)

Anyway, train your ear, and songwriting will come totally naturally to you.. you'll be able to hear entire compositions in your head!!

[François Kelly]

hey

most of the good idea i got happen in my head before on my guitar.... sometime i cannot play my idea the first time.

your mental is supperior to you physic.

ear training is a tool to bring you to higher level on songwriting.

Cheers!!!!

[Xambax]

hey

most of the good idea i got happen in my head before on my guitar.... sometime i cannot play my idea the first time.

your mental is supperior to you physic.

ear training is a tool to bring you to higher level on songwriting.

Cheers!!!!

I toally agree. I abandoned trying to come up with song melody on instrument long ago. The first thing that usuallly jumps in my mind is clever, different idea, a twist which makes certain song to stand out (a hook, right? :) ) For the rest of the song It's just like I ask myself smth like "How would you like to hear it from....i dunno...hetfield, petrucci, lou reed or other respected musician." and then when i got it in my head i try to play it on guitar. As for lyrics, at first there is always one line that came out of nowhere, clever metaphor or contrast (...) that has nothing to do with anything but is here as a skeleton for the rest. after i got that, song title and the rest of the lyrics just flow out of me.

[Matteo Miller]

Yeah man, that's got to be awesome! :)

I'm trying to integrate composing with my computer and composing with the guitar so that it's faster and easier than using either one sepearately. If you think of a cool melody, it's definitely easier to play on the computer, but it's easier to make variations on that melody on your instrument... and put some SOUL into it! :)

[Xambax]

Yeah! Soul is the word! We all actually contain our own music within ourselves. It only needs to be freed; and i believe that the better and easier you can free and express your own music, the better musician you are.

[Matteo Miller]

Amen. hahaha

[Paul Moliukov]

your mental is supperior to you physic.
ear training is a tool to bring you to higher level on songwriting.


Btw, what methods of ear training do you people use?
I personally use
~singing intervals
~singing arpeggios
~singing small phrases/patterns
~aural dictations for intervals
~aural dictations for arpeggios
~aural dictations for melodies
~imagining a short 3-5 notes melody in mind and then immediately playing it on the instrument

:)

[Matteo Miller]

Not much to add to that xD

transcribing music is good too

[Matteo Miller]

actually, one way is to do perfect pitch training...

basically, just listen REALLLLY closely and just soak your ears into ONE note.... feel the note vibrate... feel it harmonize within you...

then move to another note.....


if you play the A string, and then play any other note on the guitar, and guess which note you played, that's REALLY good for your ears...

if you play an A chord, and then play any other note, and guess it.. that's also good...

if you try to play a random triad or interval pair (harmonized, played at the same time)... and then try to go in there and figure out what pitches are being played... that's also good.... then, singing the two pitches of course to make sure they're the right ones... (does this make sense?)

[Paul Moliukov]

yep, that's ok:)

What about methods of training an absolute pitch?
Do you practice it?

[Paul Moliukov]

yep, that's ok:)

What about methods of training an absolute pitch?
Do you practice it?

[Matteo Miller]

Absolute pitch, meaning perfect pitch?

I do practice perfect pitch, as well as relative pitch.. the two differ like this:

one deals with the relationship between two or more pitches,

the other focuses on a particular pitch...

so if you're practicing for perfect pitch, your focus should be on ONE pitch.. and tthe way to do that is not to think about other pitches when you're listening to that one pitch.. lol it's weird... you're trying to sort of feel out, probe, listen closely, FEEL the sound... feel the tone... be one with the tone.. let it seep into your mind and ears... let your ear soak in the sound...

and eventually your ear opens up... if you're looking for good ear training stuff, i would recommend the David Lucas Burge ear training courses. I use them both (relative and perfect pitch) and they're stellar ! ;D

[Andy Miller]

When I write songs, I don't use my guitar. I have my music come directly from my heart, my head, my mind, my body, my spirit...

I rely ENTIRELY on ear training. I do use my knowledge of modes and arpeggios and music theory to an extent, because I know which note sounds like what when I see it, but I compose without my guitar.

Cool - composing in your head. Maybe I should try this! At this stage, I'm pretty dependent on the guitar. Though, lately I noticed a song by Crowded House, and I wondered, 'how did they know to put THOSE chords together'? Maybe I might be able to do similar stuff, by putting the guitar down!

[Paul Moliukov]

yes, our instrument locks us in its boundaries...
music written by pianist would be never look like music written by guitarist!

[Matteo Miller]

Haha yeah that's why I like to write drum parts... they don't sound anything like what a drummer would play! :D

[Paul Moliukov]

maybe it could be a good practice for developing of songwriting skills to learn some minimal basics of playing another different-kind instruments...or at least LISTEN a lot of instruments. I remember my first experience of playing classic music (Vivaldi, Bach etc). Although the notes were played right, I was totally clueless about what original instruments this music was written for. My teacher explained to me a huge difference between bow-made sound (like sound of cello, violin) and finger-made one (guitar, bass guitar). Then I watched lots of video where cellists played classics and it totally changed my level of understanding and playing music. I became to imitate their sound, sustain, articulations, rubato-tricks etc. I had not even touch cello, but my playing became much better!
The same story about jazz. Listening for great saxophone-, trumpet-players contributes colossal value into your mind and helps you to perform that music in correct way. These people have a natural necessity to make pauses while playing to breath in, so their phrasing is closely related with human speech.
Bottom line: even listening for multiple instruments will greatly develop both your playing and songwriting.:)

[François Kelly]

i think the thought are mos important.
as the seed of a tree :)

the better your tought the better the result but its only a part of it.

[Matteo Miller]

Heck yes, that's why I love the Mars Volta!

They've got like 6 instruments or something... drums, saxaphone, keyboard, bass, guitar, synthesizer effects, random other drum instrument type things, vocals... crazy.

[Paul Moliukov]

Person's mood also play a great role in songwriting process:)

[Violaman]

I like different things for my different moods one thing I universally love is a brief eighth rest followed by some awesome groove like gojira or say opeth, its just a release