why jazz players hate rockers?

[vy]

i noticed a common hatred for rockers amongst jazz players for rockers why is it
will someone explain me why cause i play both and i cant support any one group as i love both styles

[Benoit]

Maybe because Rock is so present on radio and much more accessible to people than Jazz.

Envy maybe???? but looking at what is played on radio, I must admit that there are some really $%&?ty stuff out there. Some rock songs are really bad but still sell.

Go figure

Not being from the jazz scene my opinion may not be relevant.

[lalimacefolle]

Because they wish they had amplifiers that went to 11 too...

[Bardsley]

I also play both kinds (Country AND Western... just kidding) and I think they can go nicely hand in hand. If you look at where Miles waw going at the end of his career, and the mutual respect that he and Hendrix shared, there are certainly jazz players who have similar opinions. However, I could see why jazz players would see rock as simply being a less sophisticated form of music - that has similar roots to jazz in blues - that steals all the crowds. Jazz players could be justified in getting annoyed at the way musicianship isn't as important in rock, yet it is rock musicians who get called things like "the greatest guitarist ever" etc.

[chris mood]

I was what you would call a jazz snob during my college yrs., and the main complaint I hear from jazz players about rock musicians is that their "lazy". Most never explore the possibilities of the instrument. An whats w/that Drop D thing and power chords? It's cool if you can actually play and your looking for that effect, but a lot of players use it as a crutch. You can't get away with that in jazz, classical, or blues.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by chris mood
. . . but a lot of players use it as a crutch.

Yeah, I knew a guy that would always retune his guitar to be able to finger the chords he wanted. If he couldn't play a certain chord (and I'm talking simple chords here, aka 5ths, add2s) he would just retune. He had this idea that all chords should be played with just one finger.


Drop-D is fun, btw.

[pstring]

Jazz players are just mean, hateful people, Rockers are Lazy? yeah right!... Excuse me , could someone please hand me the TV remote control, it's slightly out of my reach down there by my foot, thanks

[skee1]

(Affects&Pedals-Boards-Wammy bars ect!

Mabee its the obove if you take the (Rock guitar players)
toys away from them they would not sound as good,
plus you would really hear what they sound like!
I hate to crush your idiols but if Jimmy Hendrix had never,
used affect pedals he would have never made it in the music scene plus countless others.

Mark

[lalimacefolle]

Not lazy in that way, but I understand Chris' view.

Lots of young guitarist think some rockers are the greatest, while lots of Jazz or classical cats just blow them away.

I can understand that Jazz guys get pissed of because someone that writes a 4 chords songs is called a "great songwriter, with awesome harmonies", while some Jazz tunes have 20 chords in them, and nobody gives a ****...

[friskynibbles]

It's kinda silly to hate any musician.
If you don't like it, don't listen.
I don't like country music, but I must admit that there are some damn good guitarists in there and some really great melodies. Hate = jealousy.
-Daniel

[skee1]

Originally posted by chris mood
I was what you would call a jazz snob during my college yrs., and the main complaint I hear from jazz players about rock musicians is that their "lazy". Most never explore the possibilities of the instrument. An whats w/that Drop D thing and power chords? It's cool if you can actually play and your looking for that effect, but a lot of players use it as a crutch. You can't get away with that in jazz, classical, or blues.

Hey Chris
Clapton got away with it in (White-Room)<-Blues
(He used some Power chords ha ha

Mark
P:SI swear Chris that i read years ago that alot of,
Jazz players used the droped D tuning in (GP Mag)

[Edited by skee1 on 02-20-2002 at 08:54 AM]

[chris mood]

Skee....
I think drop D and power chords can have a cool effect, my problem is with people who only play them because thats all they can play because they won't take the time and energy to learn anything more.
Even Kurt Cobain played bar chords (I Have it on video to prove it) but a lot of young rockers won't use them when playing Nirvana songs. I don't get it?

[skee1]

Your right Chris
Its an effect, which i only use in songs that were
recorded useing it.(cover songs)or 1 or 2 of my
licks in the key of D.
I do the same with the droped G .
It would be very boring plus lazy if somebody used,
these affects in every song or lick.
I guess they could use these tunings for,
flash show off stuff on stage.
I guess its easyer for them to play power chords,
while thier jumping around on stage or thier just(Lazy)

Mark

[Edited by skee1 on 02-20-2002 at 12:45 PM]

[Zeppelin]

Originally posted by skee1
(Affects&Pedals-Boards-Wammy bars ect!

Mabee its the obove if you take the (Rock guitar players)
toys away from them they would not sound as good,
plus you would really hear what they sound like!
I hate to crush your idiols but if Jimmy Hendrix had never,
used affect pedals he would have never made it in the music scene plus countless others.

Mark




i cant agree with you.
look at ritchie blackmor or santana or page
altough they did use some overdrive they were playing with almost clean sound, not like modern metal heads.
i think the problem with jazz players is that they cant accept simple songs. if its not the most complicated harmony in the world than it wont do.
but then again many jazz players playing songs by the beatles so maybe im wrong

[lalimacefolle]

Originally posted by Zeppelin
but then again many jazz players playing songs by the beatles so maybe im wrong


I think that what's important in Jazz is an awesome melody, and ALSO a vamp that's going to be fun to play over...

There's enough wonderful melodies in the Beatles, and their chord progressions are far from simplistic, so I guess that's why Jazz cats enjoy playing their tunes...

[skee1]

Sorry about the way i put that Zepp
i should have said the real heavy effect users,
Santana he has a clean sound and i like his,
clean sound even alittle distortion don't hurt.
I would never put Santana in the heavy effects class,
I lean more toward the blue's and so i would rather,
hear a few affects then 10 affect pedals!

Mark
Just my 2 cents

[skee1]

Yesterday by the beatles and countless other tunes,
they did were great for jazz and blues guitarists.
I did play a jazz version of yesterday years ago plus
a blues version of something.(Great tunes for blues,
and jazz...(Great chord progressions)

Mark

[lalimacefolle]

Anyone who has heard the version ALLAN HOLDSWORTH did of "michelle" has to admit they were great songwriters.

[chris mood]

Michelle is a great example of the harmonic possibilities within a minor key, I use that one all the time in my teaching.

[Incidents Happen]

i think jazz musicians dont like rockers because a rocker can sit there and make millions but he sucks, while this jazz guy is great, but he makes 10 bucks a night

[Barreta_jetstream1]

u hit the nail right on the head there!! niether group is better than the other, its just rockers get more attension and that rattles some ppl

[Zeppelin]

many guitar "Gods" in rock just mastrubate through their guitar when they are soloing.. i mean most of the rock solos are usless and almost all of them lacks any idea behind them. In jazz things are different. you actualy have to think about the things you are playing. this is why jazz is hard to listen to if you dont know what exactly the players is doing.
Seriously rock could be much much better if there would be more people like blackmore, page , brian may and others like them whose solos do realy express something (not all of them of course).

P.S im not jazz player so dont see it as "i hate rock music" post

[lalimacefolle]

I heard this jam with HOLDSWORTH and VAN HALEN... Well, Eddie seemed kind of .... confused... Allan shredded the tune to pieces, blasting through the changes, doing uncanny licks, and all Ed could do was bend one note and wait for the other chord to come up to see if he had to change it...

Allan doesn't get pissed off, but dude, if I played like him, I would have slapped Eddie, so that he would give me some money...

[Zeppelin]

Originally posted by lalimacefolle
I heard this jam with HOLDSWORTH and VAN HALEN... Well, Eddie seemed kind of .... confused... Allan shredded the tune to pieces, blasting through the changes, doing uncanny licks, and all Ed could do was bend one note and wait for the other chord to come up to see if he had to change it...

Allan doesn't get pissed off, but dude, if I played like him, I would have slapped Eddie, so that he would give me some money...

Van halen is a great example to my idea:
Just listen to song like jump!, i think that he ruins the whole thing with the guitar solo in the middle..

[lalimacefolle]

tatatatadada, powpowpowpow, tada da dad da dad daaa
tatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatata (tapping section)
tatadadadadadada,
tadadadad, dadaadadadaaaaaaaaaaa dadadd aaadaaaaaaaaaaaa!!

I thought it was pretty cool???
I love the synth section though!

[Zeppelin]

You gotta love the video clip of this song :)
It's so f***** 80's :) :)

[lalimacefolle]

I love the way DLR does this round overhead kick ... And wow, ain't those pants nifty??

[Incidents Happen]

jazz players dont hate rockers, rather they shouldnt be. if they are so hateful of the rockers, why dont they become a rocker- but still use the same stuff in jazz, only make it rock? jazz players have nobody to blame but themselves if they dont like rockers.

[Zeppelin]

Originally posted by Incidents Happen
jazz players dont hate rockers, rather they shouldnt be. if they are so hateful of the rockers, why dont they become a rocker- but still use the same stuff in jazz, only make it rock? jazz players have nobody to blame but themselves if they dont like rockers.

because then we get fusion which is not that respected as jazz as far as i know..

[Incidents Happen]

well whatever man there shouldnt be any hatred in the music business.

[Barreta_jetstream1]

my god he sounds like a hippy!!! lol!! oh wait.... i AM one!! nice going incidents

[ikesws]

for the same reason light skinned whites don't mix well with dark skinned whites...prejudice...ike