read this man-

[Incidents Happen]

This thread might be a long one. I hope. Now, here's the story ( of billy joe and bobby sue- nah ha- only steve miller fans will get that one). Yeah yeah yeah im 14, blahblahblah, now, im an obsessive at the guitar. OBSESSIVE. just about. getting there. Today my mom threatened to ground me from my guitar, i got really upset, grabbed my Guild, got in my room, slammed the door, locked it, so she wouldnt take my precious guitar away from me. now, chords are relatively easy for me to both learn and play, even like 7th and 9th chords and stuff like that. im at the stage where (hmm...what stage could i call it) its at LEAST intermediate. but definitely not pro or near pro. Most kids my age just wanna **** around on the guitar, while at school 7 hours a day 'in my head' im playing my guitar, when i get home i grab a pepsi and play...im constantly thinking of guitar, have played for less than a year, a little less, but have the hugest craving. so where am i getting at? Well, I want to know how to fill the gaps between where i am at now and say, where Jerry Garcia was. No no no im not asking for 'there is no shortcut' or 'hahahaha!' im completely serious here, i can memorize one scale a day or so ( all across the fretboard) if nessecary, I know the A and G major scales so far. But i just learned G today...A is nice, on a few songs, im not bad at improvising and solo-ing for a 14 year old. But 'solo-ing' isnt really everything in my opinion. To many bands and groups, the solo is when the guitar player is like "yea thats right bitch this is my time" well im not like that, but im for improvisation all the way. I may be thinking too much, but i NEED a goal, a nice goal that might take a while, something for me to be like "yeah i gotta get to this point, gotta do it! you can do it!" its all motivational ( some might think ' is this kid nuts? how much does he think/play/listen/talk/etc about guitar! jeez does he have a life!? the answer is nearly no for the life one, i'd rather sit in my room playing guitar for 5 hours than kill time with friends...). anyways, back on track ( if there was a track on this thread), i'll set this up as a step-solution problem thing. this is for experienced guitar players and semi's alike. hell i want everybody's opinion because this is a community.

what are the best things to learn/master/do REAL good on the guitar?-
1. Chords
2. Solo-ing
3. improvisational lead ( well i know this is important for me but its more of 'how' to get there for this one, and the rest)
4. jamming with others
5. theory
6. fingerpicking ( fun, sounds good too, but bein a dead phan and a phishphan i wonder how important it is...)
7.learnin to read, write, etc.
8. dexterity
9. speed ( kinda goes with dexterity...)
10. rhythm
11. other...

after this, give ways i can improve on this...i posted about this last month, and since last month i have DRASTICLY improved. like, holy ****. i got some words of advice that helped, but more just encouragement. like "Way to go kid your 14 you can play chords." this is the knowledge station right here, i bet llamicofolle (sp?) is gonna have a good answer for this one.

[educatedfilm]

:)... Why are you learning the major scales sepratly? They're exactly the same just moved up and down the fret board accordingly!! Do you understand what I'm saying? Basically Cmaj can be played from open strings to the 12 fret, if you want to play Dmaj you just move Cmaj up to start from 2 to 14 (moved up 1step ie the different between the notes), fret 0 (the open strings) and 1 are not a problem as the pattern repeats it self, so they would have the same pattern as frets 12 and 13 respectivly...
Hope this save you time...

[lalimacefolle]

Originally posted by Incidents Happen



4. jamming with others
10. rhythm
11. other...

llamicofolle (sp?) is gonna have a good answer for this one.

What a cool way to spell my name!!! And here's my answer!!

Everything in your list counts. Technical things are a must have (chords, speed, soloing...) Theory too (helps you improve your playing faster AND communicate with other schooled musicians).
But the ones I left in the quote are WAY more important. Get out of your room when your mom stops threatening you and communicate with better musicians, or with a bassist, or a drummer (hell, both!) and try to fit in the rhythm, or the "groove"...I'm not telling you to form a band, just try and see other musicians, and share your knowledge, and steal from theirs...
I see all those tremendous youngsters that play Malmsteem's licks but they can't strum along to 'happy birthday'...See what I mean?

The 'other' is: if you want to get serious about music, it's not musical stuff that will make you the one that will get the gig.
In any given city, 250 guys can play better than you or I do... Why am I a pro, and they aren't? Well, people like working with me! It's like your English or math teachers. All of them master the same knowledge, but some of them you enjoy going to their class and others you hate... It's just the way they work with you. Some guys are just dedicated to their craft, and others just want their day to be over... Get the idea?

Also, don't think you can live thanks to music, secure yourself a 'normal' job, then maybe you might be lucky! Don't lose your dreams, but work so that you can make them come true, having a day job doesn't mean you can play gigs every week ends...

[Raskolnikov]

Originally posted by lalimacefolle
Originally posted by Incidents Happen



4. jamming with others
10. rhythm
11. other...

llamicofolle (sp?) is gonna have a good answer for this one.

What a cool way to spell my name!!! And here's my answer!!

Everything in your list counts. Technical things are a must have (chords, speed, soloing...) Theory too (helps you improve your playing faster AND communicate with other schooled musicians).
But the ones I left in the quote are WAY more important. Get out of your room when your mom stops threatening you and communicate with better musicians, or with a bassist, or a drummer (hell, both!) and try to fit in the rhythm, or the "groove"...I'm not telling you to form a band, just try and see other musicians, and share your knowledge, and steal from theirs...
I see all those tremendous youngsters that play Malmsteem's licks but they can't strum along to 'happy birthday'...See what I mean?

The 'other' is: if you want to get serious about music, it's not musical stuff that will make you the one that will get the gig.
In any given city, 250 guys can play better than you or I do... Why am I a pro, and they aren't? Well, people like working with me! It's like your English or math teachers. All of them master the same knowledge, but some of them you enjoy going to their class and others you hate... It's just the way they work with you. Some guys are just dedicated to their craft, and others just want their day to be over... Get the idea?

Also, don't think you can live thanks to music, secure yourself a 'normal' job, then maybe you might be lucky! Don't lose your dreams, but work so that you can make them come true, having a day job doesn't mean you can play gigs every week ends...


Listen to the man.
NOTHING you will learn won't relate to music. That's as important a lesson as any.

[Incidents Happen]

yeah i know a few guitar players, and one of my friends is gettin african drums and another has a saxaphone. should be interesting. We're gonna start jammin this summer, like right when school gets out, in a few months, there are a few things i wanna get 'down' so the jams wont be completely retarded.

educated film- what i meant when i said i know "A" completely all throughout the fretboard, is that i memorized it and am 'working it out', and after i get it 'down real good' i will move into G then C then D etc, til i get everyone 'down'. i just dont want to confuse myself with "is this A or G???" so i figure i'll take it one step at a time.

im starting to do long improvisational lead guitar playing, and i believe my playing has improved because of it. there is a guitar player that lives up the street, but me, if i get together and jam, im likely to do a few songs, than break into a jam , a long long jam. now the kid up the street plays the SAME THING OVER AND OVER, never changes.We also do not really like each other at all, so that takes jamming away. now there is this other kid who hasnt been playing 'too' long, about 7 or 8 months, and i guess he's alright, im thinkin about jammin with him. then add the drums in there, then sometimes a sax, i think i see improvement comin.

[educatedfilm]

OK, ten-four good buddy...:D
I just jam with who ever I have chance to... If you dont like someone doesn't nescissairly mean you wont mix creatively... Infact i've become freinds with some poeple just by jamming...

[Incidents Happen]

well, its like, he'll like what he hears when i play it, then go around and tell everybody he knows that it 'sucked' just to feed his ego.

[lalimacefolle]

Then just kill him and hide his body, go sell his saxophone and take lessons....



Just Kidding...

[educatedfilm]

pfffft!!! That's just a plain silly Idea lalimacefolle!!!

You dont hide the body!! YOU DISSOLVE IT IN INDUSTRAIL STRENGTH SULPHURIC ACID IN THE BATH TUB!:D

(This is a note to all dim wits: THIS IS A JOKE! I REPEAT! IT IS A J-O-K-E!!!)

[lalimacefolle]

Originally posted by educatedfilm
YOU DISSOLVE IT IN INDUSTRAIL STRENGTH SULPHURIC ACID IN THE BATH TUB!:D

Doesn't it stink that way?

[educatedfilm]

not really... not as much as you would expect... there would be no smell from the flesh (cos bateria/ fungi dont survie at such low pHs), but you may get a erally horrible chocking smell of the sulphur oxide when the acid breaks down.. WHich is a small percentage, but when your dealing with a couple of hundred liters the AMOUNT is pretty big...
I mean none of this is a problem if you live in a fairly remote area... but you face the major problems of getting the acid in the first place... diluting to something near resonable (if you've seen what concentrated sulphric acid does you'll know what I mean... It sucks the water out ANYTING, including you, and that's not what you want... I've seen what it does to sugar!! you get this huge honey comb of carbon just from like a tea spoon full of sugar!! and plus concentrated sulphuric acid isn't actaully an acid!! It needs water to disassocaite giving you Hplus ions, making it an acid.), and that's not easy, the stuff touches water and it BOILS!!... So really it's very dificult...

Personally I'd just ignore the person in the first place :D!

[lalimacefolle]

I'd just jam with anyone he might go and brag to... That way, he might just get an answer 'huh? I thought he played pretty good!'
If everyone just turns their back on you, go to the first solution I told you, except this time you've got more places to find to hide everybody... Now that's getting complicated...

[Bardsley]

Lol, ed, a very Godfather-esque idea. That's actually been known to happen in Sicily, I just hope they were kind enough to kill the poor guys before putting them in the tub.

[Incidents Happen]

lol.

but i dont like the people he hangs out with so i say **** that.

[SoS]

****ing pepsi rules man i always drink that stuff before i play ehe reeves me up

[Incidents Happen]

yeah me too! one week my parents didnt replenish the supply of pepsi, so i wetn a week without pepsi, and i didnt practice as much. but whenever pepsi is around, my guitar is in my lap and im playin her away

[SoS]

AHAHA i have been drinking pepsi for years and its my soul source of everything if i aint drinking it i find a cant play as fast as i can while drinking it

[Raskolnikov]

"Red Bull gives me wings"

OK, so I kinda levitate about half an inch off the ground and talk rapidly about sliding harmonics.

[Incidents Happen]

coke doesnt do the job though...

[SoS]

coke is crap (my opinion)

[Raskolnikov]

Pepsi tastes better, but if I drink it in quantity I get sick of it very quickly.

Coke tastes... well, like Coke but for some reason NEVER gets old. Just don't let it warm up.

I personally try and drink as much water as humanly possible.

[Incidents Happen]

coke is like...old people diet mountain dew

[chris mood]

sunkist orange !! or mountain dew.
Hey inc. sounds like your on the right path. The key is to be open to everything and play as much as possible. Does your school have a jazz band? If so ask to join, you'll learn a lot and maybe meet some new people. School is a good place to learn the skills to make it in the real world, play in the pit for the musicals or talent show, whatever there is take advantage of it. Good luck.

[Incidents Happen]

yeah. well im in 8th grade. in 9th grade there is a jazz band i will be in.

[pstring]

What a freaky thread this turned out to be, rage, advice, jamming, murder, body disposal, soft drink reveiw, I swear I heard all this on an old Suicidal Tendencies song once

[educatedfilm]

pffffftt... You can keep your Coke/ pepsi/ sunkist!
The best drink of all is MILK AND ALMOND SYRUP (the sweet almond syrup, not the bitter stuff they use for cooking) !! The milk has to be quite cold though...

[SoS]

Hey educatedfilm i heard about Milk and something else being a really good remedy for hangovers. Not to sure, but i agree with this thread it is a weird one but i must say it keeps people interested in the forums ahahah
I'll tell ya a good HOT drink, four teaspoons of Milo and two teaspoons of sugar pour 3/4 hot water then chuck in 2 scoops of ice cream....scrumcious LOL i'm cracking myself up here..oi but it taste fantastic.


[Edited by SoS on 02-04-2002 at 04:58 AM]

[Incidents Happen]

ok, back on track here-

im startin wo whoop some ass at certain parts of the A major scale. im not completely proficient in it yet, but i could jam with somebody in the key of A with me improvising, probably for a half an hour at least before me running out of an idea. maybe longer.probably longer, because i can always repeat things in a different kind of way, change stuff up, etc.

i guess you could say im gettin really alot better than i used to be at scales. i used to always worry about my pinky finger, try to make it get some of the notes on there, but that was slowing me down. now that i didnt worry about that, i got alot better. pinky was holding me back. in a year or so i will probably have my pinky dex up a bit, then i can use the pinky more...but its fine now, i think.

i rented two grateful dead movies, and jerry cheats his pinky over, i've seen times when he should have used his pinky but used a different finger instead...which makes me alot happier.

my right hand is amazing, some how the alternate picking seems to me, that i can go as fast as i possibly can, and my right hand is still hungry for more...usually the right hand and left hand are out of sync for a while, but since i take lessons that wasnt a long period of time.

now here's what i am wondering - now that i can 'play' the A major scale decently, should i just go to a G major now, or just keep workin the A major?

[Raskolnikov]

It's just A two frets lower.

Once you get a feel for moving things around everything you learn applies everywhere else.

[Psycho Amram]

didnt read all the post just the first few but
inci be careful man i had a friend who went nuts i mean REAL nuts.
his parents bought him a guitar when he was about your age and he became obssesive bout it...
he practice about 11 h. a day and sometimes more (!!!)
his parents went abroad for two months when they got back they found him lying half dead on his bed fingers bleeding playing the guitar (it had very lil paint)... that two months he didn't go to school, (almost) didn't sleep, (almost) didn't eat...
they sent him to a hospital (you can guess what kind of a hospital) and now he is not allowed near anything that can make music...

[Incidents Happen]

no see, i HAVE to eat. so that wont be like me:)

[Incidents Happen]

why do i sound so jazzy when i improvise? i mean jazz is okay but i sound waaaay too jazzy. im not even really a fan of jazz that much, its better than alot of music, but i dont listen to too much jazz...

also, although i can fill some space and sound on that A-Major, i believe there is something i am missing. Im playing completely by what notes in the scale sound good with others, and i can do fills not that bad, but solo-ing , like an all out solo, still kind of stumps me. probably because im playing an acoustic, right? i dont know... on friday i'll probably ask my guitar teacher.
is there anything that can help that, or should i just keep goin at it and i'll get it after a little bit?

[Raskolnikov]

You'll figure it all out in time.

Improvisation is an aquired ability.

[Incidents Happen]

so the more i practice it the better i'll get at improvising, rriiiight?


god i hope so, you'll see me playin 5 or 6 hours every day just improvising then :)

[John O'Carroll]

5 or 6 hours improvising ??? That certainly can be fun and help develop your instincts for improv, but you need a foundation of musical / technical knowledge to apply to your improvising. Since you're still a "beginner" (don't take that the wrong way - LOL ), I'd strongly suggest that you practice scales, chords, rhythyms, melodies, SONGS, a lot more than just improvising. When you have that foundation built, you'll understand how to use your knowledge / technique and your improvising should improve greatly.

[Incidents Happen]

Originally posted by John O'Carroll
5 or 6 hours improvising ??? That certainly can be fun and help develop your instincts for improv, but you need a foundation of musical / technical knowledge to apply to your improvising. Since you're still a "beginner" (don't take that the wrong way - LOL ), I'd strongly suggest that you practice scales, chords, rhythyms, melodies, SONGS, a lot more than just improvising. When you have that foundation built, you'll understand how to use your knowledge / technique and your improvising should improve greatly.

well, i do. i just mentioned the improvising because whenever it feels right to improvise, i do it. the past few days i took an improvising break you could say,and learned a few more songs. it is kind of crazy to improvise every day, that long, just hitting notes ya know...
my fingers are almost black, full of callouses, none of my other friends fingers are that play...

the thing about it is, i am familiar with the A major scale all through the neck now, and have tried numorous combinations, but the "Zazz" that i mentioned earlier still isnt here. what i mean by "Zazz" is that stuff that pro musicians have 'in them' while they play that adds some colour to their style...style...thats it, i think i need to develop a style. probably towards jerry garcia's style...any body help me out with a way to develop that? there arent many fully tabbed dead songs on thenet

[Raskolnikov]

That's the stuff you'll figure out. Anybody can play random notes on a scale and not sound bad. But what you learn is what to do when and how it relates to what you want to say. These are things that you'll only figure out over time, and if you're remotely like me they'll just come to you out of nowhere. "Ooooo... I can do this can't it?!?!!" And low and behold you now have added unison bends or string rakes to your pallete.

I don't think it's so much practice as a familiarity thing. You'll do things without thinking yet have have a better sense of how it will fit the song as a whole.

Practice will give you to technical skills to do the things you want, but the learning aspect of this happens to you.

[Incidents Happen]

well rask i know for a fact you are certainly right, but i dont practice just because i want to get better. i practice because it is a drug. seriously, im hooked. its like a journey, and the more you are prepared for the ride the better off you are. thats how i figure it. i had a pretty cool breakthrough tonight, when observing the ascending scales and descending scales i've been working on in A. they move all around, its really neat to see. i am still technically a "rookie" to the level you all probably are at, but i can move on the guitar pretty fast ( not bragging...) and i think if i keep it up i'll be a pretty phat guitar player in my area. Rhythmically, all i have come up with so far is Jazz stuff, but im okay with that i guess, i know some stuff about jazz so its not completely wasted.

[Raskolnikov]

My appreciation for Jazz snuck up on me when I wasn't paying attention one day. I got my hands on a Charlie Hunter Trio CD (since Charlie Hunter was on Les Claypool's solo album), and it rocked. My Jazz collection is pretty much limited to him and Jaco Pastorius so far, but the genre is growing on me more and more.

If you're looking for ways to diversify your rythmic work, here's something that has worked for me: Think about what you're doing, then think about a way to do something totally different. I'd make up little riffs or progressions that I couldn't quite play then practice them until they were in the bag. Two Bocce Wagon songs (The Northfield Special and Moose Hunt) came about from doing just that.

As for my guitar playing, you may allready be more proficent than me; I only really do technical things on bass.

[Incidents Happen]

maybe, or getting close...i seriously got to thank whoever recommended GUITAR PRO 3.0 because it is SOOOO GREAT! i finally understand in my mind what my fingers are doing on the frets! like REALLY understand, not just partially.

[ScottyTooHotty]

Okay, I'm going to throw my two cents (trust me, after all the money I've spent on gear over the years..that's about all I have left!) in. I'm hoping not to repeat anyone, but to be honest with you, when it got to Murder 101 and the Coke Vs Pepsi debate, I kindof scrolled through.

Okay, first off, everyone here has given some good advice. Learn the rhythm!! Like someone said, there's Yngwie wanna be's who can shred and shred, but ask them to grab and acoustic and strum something easy, and they're lost. I would recommend also, change your keys alot. Don't learn everything in A...cuz guess what? You'll be doing everything in A and if you ever have to change keys, even though its the same patterns, just two steps up or two steps down, they seem foreign to you. I don't know all their songs, but I'm willing to bet that Keith Richards plays everything in Gmaj. The few songs I have played of the Stones, they were in that key and he always sounds the same. Don't get me wrong, the dude's been making a living of this since before I was a gleam in my dad's eye...but I don't think Keith is an exciting player.

Okay, I'll stop that one before another debate erupts. Learn your jazz chords too. There are alot of songs who use them and you probably don't know it. Learn the fretboard (I'll admit, I slacked at this one too). Be able to pick a fret on a string and know instantly what that note is. In addition to that, when you're learning your scales, learn what notes make up a scale so as to tie in your fretboard knowledge. This way, no matter what key you're in and no matter if you're shaky on the patterns...you'll know what notes comprise that scale while you're improvising.

Lastly, as far as developing your style..well that comes in time. I'll try to explain it, but it's really something that just "happens". We're all influenced by different people. I'm a bit more old school, so mine are Clapton, Rhoads, Page, Sambora and Brian Setzer, to just name a few. I don't sound like Randy Rhoads, I don't sound like Jimmy Page and I sure as hell don't sound like Eric Clapton....but you can hear them all in the way I play. Those people influence you because they connect to you in some way. Whether they're melodic, fast, bluesy or whatever. They've got a sound you like. As you play, and more so as you improvise, you'll find yourself instinctively playing things that kindof mimic your influences. Meaning (and I hope I'm not losing you, because I'm starting to lose myself): You're playing on the fly, literally, so to keep your focus and keep it sounding good, you might throw in a Page lick here, a Satch lick there, a typical Rhoads rhythm..etc.. See where I'm going? Individually they're each their own...combined they're YOU and your style.

[educatedfilm]

wasn't "brown sugar" in Bmaj?

[Incidents Happen]

i totally see where your coming from. but Jerry Garcia is my main influence, but it seems to me in my 'time of noodling' i should and do seem influenced by jazz greats i havent even heard of . like im a natural ( no no no not like a genius) like its my un-artificial language with no slurs that have developed, you know? but if i really think, then i can sound a little like jerry, but on the fly i sound like a blues great ( well not TOO great, but not bad at least).

i will learn things in G and F and E and all the keys, i just really want to get things 'down' in A, so it becomes that much more easier in G and in F and etc.


there is this thing that flows in me, once i start playing...usually from saturday until thursday are my best playing dates ( getting in 5 hours a day average) and on friday i get in 3 or 4 at the most usually, because im 'burnt out', literally physically and emotionally from the week.
im the only kid at my school who never
has home work, so i have plenty of gutar time!

[ScottyTooHotty]

I think everyone learns they A minor Pentatonic and the A Ionian scales first, so that's not a problem, but be aware of the other keys/scales. I don't know half of them by heart honestly, but I did find it's easy to stick to one key because it's familiar to you.

I wish I had five hours a day to practice! I actually wished I hadn't pissed away the time when I did have five hours a day to practice. But the bills need to get paid, so I'm lucky to get two hours a day when I'm not jamming with the band (then I get five hours!). Keep it up while you can. Now as far as the Garcia influence. If he's your main influence then that's cool, but you've got to have other influences. You'll pick up pieces of everyone you listen to reguarly over the years.

[ScottyTooHotty]

Oh and to Educated...you're right, it is in B...but you've got to admit, they've got a lot of songs in G.

[educatedfilm]

yeah they do alot of stuff in one key (you right)... I was just questioning whether i knew what i thought i did... The dandy warhols ripped it off, which is a shame...