Guitar Tricks - A good new thread?

hrckid

01-22-2002, 07:04 PM

I once heard Clapton say that all the great rock music has already been written in the 60's and 70's. And all that's happening now is that artists are just putting there own style to it. He also went on to say that DJ,s will be famous in the way that guitar greats of the 70's will be remembered. Also that the guitar hero is almost a thing of the past.

Whilst I can't agree with the business about DJ's I think he may have a point about the rest.

I'd be interested to hear of any songs or albums since 1995 that will be remembered in twenty years time in the same way as Free's 'All Right Now' or Clapton's 'Layla' is now. Will these always be the standard's?

I'm finding it hard to think of anything that will be remembered like that since perhaps Nirvana's Nevermind.

Raskolnikov

01-22-2002, 07:27 PM

There definately will be. It may not be rock, but there will be new music that dominates just as older classic rock did.

lalimacefolle

01-22-2002, 07:32 PM

It's always hard to say what will be the thing that will be remembered when you actually live it.

I guess that what majors are trying to sell right now won't be remembered, while what independant labels that create a new style and a following audience will.

It's also funny to see that sometimes, players weren't really famous when they were alive, and they are rediscovered once they die...

I'm pretty sad when I see the 1969 woodstock film. All those great bands, they have become a part of history. And when I see the 1999 woodstock revival, I hardly remember half of those bands names... I guess money has taken over talent...

PonyOne

01-22-2002, 07:35 PM

It depends on where you're talking about in the world.

In the US... no.
In Europe, Prodigy's "Fat Of The Land," though not 100% real-instrument rock (there's a guitar in each song though), will probably get remembered for awhile. Radiohead's OK Computer will be remembered by intellectuals all over the world but not the general populace, Tool's "Aenema" will probably get as much note from time to time as Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon," and in mainland Europe, you'll have Rammstein's "Sensucht" continuing to kick the snot out of all comers.

Led Zeppelin

01-23-2002, 04:23 PM

Wait, if Clapton said that all great rock music was made in the 60/70's and people now are just applying their style to it, and seeing as Clapton made some of the best rock music of the period, then why the hell is he still making records?

educatedfilm

01-23-2002, 04:51 PM

yeah.. I agree with Poney one here... The Fat of the land will be remembered, Radiohead will have 2 or 3 albums (the Bends, Ok computer, and kid A just becuase it was such a surprising change yet such as good one)... The smashing pumpkins have to have one...

TO be honest I dont really agree with clapton here... I dont think that anything in the 60s or 70s is really that similar to so of the Pumkins live stuff, where it crosses the boundary between guitar rock and dark heavy techno... and to be honest I dont think a Marxist band like the Manic street preachers could really have made it... THey're got to have a defining album in there som where...
This reminds me of an excelent post by Skee1... Basically he took the history of rock back to the 50s, and basically how distortion came about and styles etc etc.. what I'm trying to say is no music is truely "new", it's simply furthering what's already there...

REM's album "up" (1997 i think) was an amazing album... God there's loads...

Sorry Clapton, you may be a guitar ledgend, but that dont mean i have to agree with what you say...:)

PonyOne

01-23-2002, 05:27 PM

I think NIN, Danzig and Ministry were the (harder) harbingers of the future of rock. Now you get softer variations of the guitar-plus-keyboard variety like Filter. NIN's Downward Spiral will get some note from time to time, as will Broken.

hrckid, you mentioned Free's "All Right Now"... I don't remember them. Who the hell are they? I think that's how much of the music, regardless of style, of our generation will be remembered.

Failure is the best band ever, and nobody gives a crap about them. Nobody liked Hank Williams till after his death when people started referring to him as the People's Shakespere and he sold millions. It's ten years after Faith No More got onto the charts and nobody remembers them... but as far as progressive rock goes, they are truly the chihuaua's cajones. Even though I love Nirvana, I think that Nirvana overshadowed FNM and as such robbed them of the note they deserved. Mike Patton is a genius musician (as witness to his newer Mr. Bungle project), but he fit, musically, closer to G'n'R than Nirvana, and that was decidedly out.

As musicians I feel that we will always look for a different kind of music than will the general populace, and as such, where everyone is getting their rocks off to the next big thing, we'll still be listening to our obscure, otherwise unheard of 20-year old records and ranting about how they're the best ever.

Led Zeppelin

01-23-2002, 05:36 PM

What about Rage Against The Machine? Their original

chris mood

01-23-2002, 08:06 PM

Ricky Martin, yeah definitely Ricky Martin and that whole latin thing!

Raskolnikov

01-23-2002, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Led Zeppelin
What about Rage Against The Machine? Their original

And very repedative.

Christoph

01-24-2002, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Originally posted by Led Zeppelin
What about Rage Against The Machine?

And very repedative.

. . . not to mention tedious, predictable, and annoying.

educatedfilm

01-24-2002, 03:13 AM

there are someother genuis bands that I dont think did that whole transaltlantic thing... like JAMEs... fantastic band, fairly well know over here, but I dont think so in the Us (Check them out, get something like "Some times (lescter piggot)" or "laiD" or "sit down" etc etc).... Gomez is another one, but i thought they were fairly well known across the pond...
Greendays album "dookie" was a great album (regardless of the simple guitaring)....

RAge are pretty good... but they're too darn repetitive... I dont understand this thing about Zack's voice... The guy from the Beastie boys, the really high pitched one (is it mix master mike? the one who played the guitar in the old days).... Now he's annoying! I think's Zacks voice and "singing's" pretty good like on "guerilla radio" and "sleep now in the fire".... oh well that's just my oppinion anyway....

Ponyone: I've got "stuck on you"... um... it's good, but really i need more to form a proper oppinion of Failure... I must admit though, it does make me smile... Please dont think I'm slating them, cos I'm not, but lyrically they're a little lacking,I love imagery in songs (like "a girl in floral dress, face is real mess, she scribbles the words, she scrobbles my words, she scribbles the REAL words, but I'd rather these were not my words")... I dont know I need to hear more... It's difficult to have "angst" with harmonies and perfect guitar, and perfect vocal, and the catchy octavier doohikie (it's difficult to explain, have a listen to "burn it clean" by mudhoney)... So the jury is still out for the mo, but so far they're pretty good..

PonyOne

01-24-2002, 01:29 PM

Stuck On You was their only "big" song (one month of airplay up and down the West Coast). I love it, it's got a very haunting melody. Failure lays out their CD's like books, so that they have a beginning, middle, prelude to climax, climax, prelude to end and then end... Stuck On You is from the "prelude to end" part of the CD "Fantastic Planet," their final CD.

The best angst songs would be Submission, Macaque, Let It Drip, Wet Gravity, Smoking Umbrellas, Leo, Pillowhead, Swallow and Screen Man. The most quintessential of those would probably be Submission, Let It Drip, and Smoking Umbrellas. After you've listened to those you'll probably enjoy stuck on you more. Further info on the ban can be found at http://www.failure.org
As far as Rage... repetitive music (you hear one song you've heard every CD), obnoxious vocals, and overrated guitars. Plus, call me a jerk, but I can't get over the fact that they went to Harvard and then fought capitalism straight from the top of Sony records...

hrckid

01-24-2002, 05:40 PM

hrckid, you mentioned Free's "All Right Now"... I don't remember them. Who the hell are they? I think that's how much of the music, regardless of style, of our generation will be remembered.

Get that track and listen to the guitar solo. It's perfect. You are winding me up that you've never heard it though aren't you.

I'm not saying that it's a particularly brilliant song but it is a good example of a 'classic' of the 70's.

I must admit I was a bigger fan of FNM at the time of Nirvana. Out Of Nowhere is my favourite of theirs. I just think they got a bit lost after Jim Martin left.

Raskolnikov

01-24-2002, 07:02 PM

"The Zombie Eaters" rules.

About Morrello, I think he's damn good (almost anyone who impresses Les Claypool is good in my book). What I think got me about the band is not what they were doing, but how it seemed to concentrate on a few musical ideas. Their first album was really good, especially "Revolver" as it was such a break from the political stuff. The band itself is incredibly solid, and I like Zack's vocal style (he just needs more diverse lyrical content). But the thing is that probably all of us here could make a "Rage" song in about thirty seconds. Their riffing and song structures became so formulaic...

As for Clapton, he's a living legend. Frankly, I think that keeps him very insolated from all the music that's living and breathing out there. All of us are in a better position to look around, poke our head into a club, stumble into a party where some nobody band happens to be playing their first gig. Sadly, not many people do. Sometime there will be an artist or group that completely rewrites rock (or maybe invents a new type of music), and who's to say when? I can't, but I know it will happen and I'm just about to pee my pants in anticipation.

Bardsley

01-24-2002, 07:59 PM

Partly why I like Rage's last album of covers so much. Yes their riffs continued to be fairly predicatable, but it worked so well on many songs, and with the lyrics already written, Zack already had slightly different things to sing about. As a Dylan fan, I think their version of Maggie's Farm is about as perfect a cover as is possible with that song; the lyrics are perfectly suited to such heavy riffs and I think it demonstrated how relevant Dyaln is to hard Rockers. Other favourites were Cypress Hill's "How I could Just Kill a Man" and Springsteen's "Ghost of Tom Joad". I don't actually listen to much Rage, and par tof the reason why i think they are so good probably stems from the fact that I spend weeks listening to Jazz and earlier rock like Hendrix before suddenly putting on Rage and dancing round the room like a maniac.

educatedfilm

01-25-2002, 04:30 AM

Ponyone: I know what your saying about sony records... but there is a flip side to you (perfectly valid) arguement... it is that capatilism has gone so far that i'll premote and sell anything that makes a profit even if it is against the system, because it's all about money. Money comes first. You also need to reach the masses to spread the word, and so why not use what you can?

I'm gonna carry on checking out failure... I'll report my progress SIR *Salutes* :)...

Thier coveres album is good, but what really gets on my goat is that I cant figure out who did the originals.. I know about the Dylan and Cypres hill covers (i didn't know that springsteen did Tom joad) and that Afrika Bambatta (sp) did renegades of funk (a very excelent song)...
Yeah and thier vidoes are Ace, my faviourite two video's probably "guerila radio"

PonyOne

01-25-2002, 08:43 AM

I know the defense and, not being a fan of capitalism, I can totally empathize w/the thought of joining a major corporation, and then using their financial abilities and wide appeal to push my music and causes. I don't know, maybe it's cause I don't support freeing Mumia (I don't necessarily want him dead, but I don't think that he should be set free). I got sick of Zack's ever-changing life story. And then when I saw the video to People Of The Sun, they have images of American tanks and soldiers deploying in the Gulf and then at the end flash THER MUST NOT BE A NEW VIETNAM IN MEXICO.

If these guys are so politically proficient, why would they equate the situation in Mexico in 1996 with the situation in Vietnam in 1966? Tom Morello may be good, but I'm one of those people who needs more than a proficient guitarist to like a band. I can respect the guitar parts and to a degree I do repsect Tom Morello. I've heard people refer to him as a guitar effects wizard...he's not the first to use an ES335 with a wah, delay pedal and some distortion, and that's not the most intimidatingly wonderous setup, but it does break from what a lot of people are using now: a PRS using the built-in on a Marshall stack.

kingdavid

01-28-2002, 11:51 AM

A lot of the best rock music might have been written in the 60's and 70's,and that the rest of musicians(or if you prefer"musicians")are just adding their own style to it.But as long as people inhabit this earth,or wherever/whatever else they inhabit,there will be good music being put out.Good here depending on who you're talking to.Coz music is about people and their emotions,experiences,whatever.
And besides,what is so special about 1960-1979 that no can write better music than that written then?The food they ate?Cosmic phenomena in this timeframe?
Clapton is/was great,but all the elements that inspired/drove him are still there.And they(the elements)are still potent enough to inspire/drive someone else(elses).
At the end of the day,we're all people.Period.

lalimacefolle

01-28-2002, 12:11 PM

I actually listen to people that push the envelope right now like Clapton pushed it... Ron thal does it, as Freak Kitchen's guitarist, IA...

kingdavid

01-28-2002, 12:27 PM

lami.....
what are you saying?I dont understand.

lalimacefolle

01-28-2002, 12:38 PM

What I'm saying is that those guys are innovators just like Hendrix or Clapton were in their time. They are pushing the technical, compositional, tonal capabilities of the guitar, except they aren't really recognized yet by the public... Steve VAI knows about those guys, he is trying to sign Freak Kitchen, and Ron THAL has recently had an appearence of Dweezil ZAPPA on his CD '9.11' I hope they will get the attention they deserve, because when the public knows about them, guitar will come back really hard in the music industry (not in the way of nu-metal band, but really like hendrix in his time, I hope)

Check out those sites
http://www.freakkitchen.com
http://www.ronthal.com

and a lick by Ron Thal I have contributed http://www.guitartricks.com/2000/trick.php?trick_id=3659

kingdavid

01-28-2002, 12:59 PM

lali(i got thi right this time)
who's doing that lick?You or Thal?
And these people are not counting your posts correctly.After two posts,you still have 623 posts,according to them

lalimacefolle

01-28-2002, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by kingdavid
lali(i got thi right this time)
who's doing that lick?You or Thal?
And these people are not counting your posts correctly.After two posts,you still have 623 posts,according to them

On the recording, it's me...

The posts actually increase and change on all the posts you have. Your first post will have the number of posts you now have and not 1 as you might think it should be (I guess it's called Dynamic HTML or something, I took some time to figure it out too)

nechako

01-28-2002, 03:40 PM

Who was the original musician? Who owns all the rights to all music and is the most original and no one will ever be cooler than them? What a bunch of hooey. Clapton was a heroine addict when he said all those negative things at the begining of this thread, so of course he was negative. The 60 musicians learned and copied the 50's , the 50's the 20's and so on and so on. Look at megadeth hanger 18 and compare it to J.S. Bachs Tocatta unt Fugue, see any similarities. Bach was writting heavy metal riffs 300 years ago. Every word in the english language has been used by someone else over and over again, that doesn't mean you can't speek it and say something true from your experience. Trying to be the true original every time is just the ego leading you down the dead end. To be original just play what you play. Genetics proves that we are all different and original, playing what we play makes it original. "life is a big jigsaw puzzle, we are all cut from the same cardboard, we are all a distinct shape that only fits in one place to make the puzzle complete. No two patterns are the same, one just need be their own peice of the puzzle." Master Tzu.

GCharlotte22787

01-28-2002, 05:00 PM

Actually I think that Oasis will def be remembered. I read in my issue of guitar one that George Harrison said theyd b forgotten in 30 years, but i think that they are a great band with extreme talent.

educatedfilm

01-28-2002, 05:20 PM

I'm not so sure myself... They had an absoloutly massive album with "what's teh story morning glory", partly because of that fact it was a good album but also just because of the timing...
As for talent, very lacking (sorry, but that's the way I see it)... I relised this when I was about 16 when I started listening to the sex pistols, the kinks, some Beatles (although I've never truely "got" them) etc etc, they have imatated alot of stuff, and repited it.
for me their best song is super sonic (credit where credit is due), and they had one or two songs here an there... but most of their carrer is repition, and their songs are lyrically very weak (the only decent lyrics are for Cigarettes and alcohol, but they were a fluke, by noel's own admision, as Alan McGee pointed out the fact that there was a socail statement in there to him)...
And for the love of god why do they let Laim "sing"!!!? Noel's a better singer, and not so bloody irratating...

nechako

01-28-2002, 06:21 PM

If truth falls in the human condition does anyone here it? Or do most of them go back to chasing their own tails and sniffing at each other?

kingdavid

01-30-2002, 09:35 AM

My dear nechako:
What is that in English?

PonyOne

01-30-2002, 03:20 PM

As long as it falls in Seattle, LA, NYC or London, it's heard by some...

nechako

01-30-2002, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by kingdavid
My dear nechako:
What is that in English?
basically posers are but sniffers.

Led Zeppelin

01-30-2002, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by educatedfilm
I'm not so sure myself... They had an absoloutly massive album with "what's teh story morning glory", partly because of that fact it was a good album but also just because of the timing...
As for talent, very lacking (sorry, but that's the way I see it)... I relised this when I was about 16 when I started listening to the sex pistols, the kinks, some Beatles (although I've never truely "got" them) etc etc, they have imatated alot of stuff, and repited it.
for me their best song is super sonic (credit where credit is due), and they had one or two songs here an there... but most of their carrer is repition, and their songs are lyrically very weak (the only decent lyrics are for Cigarettes and alcohol, but they were a fluke, by noel's own admision, as Alan McGee pointed out the fact that there was a socail statement in there to him)...
And for the love of god why do they let Laim "sing"!!!? Noel's a better singer, and not so bloody irratating...

I know Noel recycles his material and uses others but he freely admits it. Takes for example Led Zeppelin. Most of their most famous songs were fully or partly other people songs that they claimed as their own.

As for lyrics, I think alot of Oasis lyrics are good, but bear in mind that he writes all the songs by himself, and he has released over a hundred songs and has over 50 more for the new album. He writes great melodies, riffs and choruses himself, that you can whistle which is sadly lacking in alot of music. I dunno thats your opinion this is mine. My advice is listen to Acquiesce and see if your opinion changes even slightly.

educatedfilm

01-30-2002, 06:51 PM

I have done, and I thought it was ok, gas panic was very good but murdered by laim's vioce at parts... I'm not denying that WTMG was good album, but the whole recycling and not really vernturing with their music... not as in that every album has to be different, but different from what's already there... It kinda kills it for me, and the fact that the lyrics (in general aer pretty poor)... They're not a DEFINING band, they dont do anything special (for me anyway)...
It's just my oppinion really... It aint gonna change thier popularity... or their music for that matter...Oh as for tunes you can whistel and humm along to... that's something completly differnt... I mean the tunes I humm or whistel area things like "dammit" by blink 182 etc etc... Out of Standing on the shoulders of gaints (a quote from Isacc newton.. showing how original oasis are!:) lol) I only really liked "who feels love"... and "sunday morning call" a little (although it had brillaint music the lyrics sounded like a 15year old trying to write something deep and meaningful that was above his level).... oh yeah and gas panic (again the lyrics!!!!)...
I dont know.... Sometimes they nearly pull it off, but dont which is really frustrating...