girl guitar player

[Psycho Amram]

i know i sound sexist which i am not but how many girls are there that can REALLY play guitar?
i know some that think they can but they can only play few chord (and some not even that) but i never saw a real girl guitar player...

[lalimacefolle]

Jennifer BATTEN played with the king of pop... She's a master of octodigital tapping...

[Raskolnikov]

Seven Year Bitch: Nothing overly technical, but they rocked.
Ani Difranco: Great songwriter and live performer.
Tori Amos: I hear she's pretty good, but I've yet to aquire any of her albums.
Bonnie Rait: Queen of blues slide guitar.
Nina Gordon, and Lois Post: Both competant guitarists and not afraid of playing leads... anybody else remember Veruca Salt?

I think the big thing is that women tend to focus more on song writing and melody than showing off (more technical stuff).

[Branislav]

That's strange, not long ago I was thinkig about that paradox too. I really didn't see any girl for I could say "She kicks ass" or something.
All girls sorry about that :p, but I think they are little stupid for that, and they mostly have weak fingers, but the guitar requires "little" more than that. There are some "actions" reserved for man, playing guitar is one of them.
They are better singers than guitarists (mmm....Candice Night :))

[Lordathestrings]

I think I'll just slip on out of here before Joan Jett, Nicki Auf der Maur, Sass Jordan, The Bangles, Liona Boyd, Nancy Wilson, Joanna Connor, Sue Foley, and Mellissa Etherindge all descend on Branislav like a pack of enraged wildcats!

[Branislav]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not "sexist pig".
I'm just saying facts. Girls can be great musicians, but not guitarists.
I really didn't understand that thing with wildcats and me :)

[Lordathestrings]

Just to pick one example, Liona Boyd is world-famous as one of the best classical guitar players ever. She did an album (Persona, CBS #MK 42120) on which Eric Clapton and David Gilmour appear as sidemen!

Wildcats? May you never witness what happens to a man who is foolish enough to insult a roomfull of high-spirited women!

[Branislav]

Unfortunately I know how it is, they can mess up your life :p
Ok I take that about "girls like bad guitaist thing" back. It's just, I didn't see any girl good enough before.

[Benoit]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Lita Ford. She plays a mean guitar, that girl can serve you a solo in no time.

Nobody remembers her duet with The Oz man in Close my eyes forever?

[mamamalabass]

Originally posted by Psycho Amram
i know i sound sexist which i am not but how many girls are there that can REALLY play guitar?
i know some that think they can but they can only play few chord (and some not even that) but i never saw a real girl guitar player... as you can see there are alot of them.and not all girls are melody oriented.for example female bassists!!

[Raskolnikov]

Sara Lee!

I've been noodling on some B 52s stuff a lot lately. And I love her work with Ani Difranco.

I actually know of a lot of up and coming female bassists.

Of course, playing bass ties in with the whole "songwriting" aspect of music; you have to pay a lot of attention to how what you're playing relates to the song as a whole.

[friskynibbles]

branislav - "Girls can be great musicians, but not guitarists."

Since when did a musicians private parts have anything to do with playing? I don't know any serious female guitarists, but I'm sure if they were really into it they could play as well as any man.

*shrug*

[PonyOne]

Unfortunately, I think that many of the girl bands out there aren't really into the music so much as making the point that they are girls who play electric guitars and rock.

Sadly, as guitarists like Lita Ford, the lead singer/guitarist of Handsome 3some, and a host of others have showed us, girls/women can be proficient, talented and unique guitarists. But I think a lot who would make some really great rock are discouraged by the fact that rock is male-dominated, and worry that they'll have to either be sex objects or bitch about political causes to be heard or taken seriously.

I hate Kittie, the all-girl rock band who went on Family Values. They sound like a retard chorus! They're not good musicians, and the when the lead singer growls, it embarasses me, and I don't even have anything to do with them.
What a lot of girls need to realize is that music by the likes of Static X, Filter, and a host of other rock bands, require a deeper voice; at the very highest, a low tenor. And most girls are sopranos or mezzo sopranos. Even a girl with a deep voice (usually Alto) is gonna have a hard time playing songs of that nature because they just can't get the low growl & grind that a really big testosterone-pumped dude can.

A month or two back, there was a female musician who posted a message up asking for female musicians, and I was nice & gave her a few pointers on starting a band. Somewhere in the post I said "I respect your cause" meaning "I respect that you want to start a female rock band." And she jumps all over me about how she doesn't have a CAUSE and maybe I should ASK before I assume.

I ended up making some really scathing remark informing her that she was the one who needed to ask, not me, and that she should practice not being so touchy & overreactive. She never posted again.

Sadly this attitude mimics that of many female rockers I've met: "I'm a bitch, I'm a lover, I'm a child, I'm a mother, I'm a snner I'm a saint, I do not feel ashamed" and all men should stand down as she proceeds to make bad, thoughtless drivel about how we're all pigs. She and her friends are gonna take back the airwaves and smack it to all us guys! Womyn unite!

If more girls and women could take an egalitarian mindset and just form a band cause they like making music, not to make a point about anything.

That said, most of the better girl bands I've heard voiced their instruments arond the sound of the vocalist's voice. If Kittie traded their ESP's for Jaguars, it'd probably help a little...

[Raskolnikov]

If Kittie could play in time with eachother and write better riffs they'd be a lot better off.

I think if left alone for a few years a couple of the members of the band could do some interesting things, but as it is now, they'll continue to suck until the fad is over and they're left with nothing.

[PonyOne]

Amen, rask.

[Psycho Amram]

maybe its for the best
this way we can play a horribly simple lick or somethin' and get ourselves dates!

anyway forget about the whole thread i had a dream last night that we played with this HOT female bassist and the first moment we played the next she jumped at me trying to cut me open!

[JaredG]

Well, you should check out the latest Arch Enemy Album. It has a girl from Germany singing on it. Let me tell you, some people I know were scared to death of her because of the way she screams. She screams better than most male deaath metal singers I know. Check it out.

[emmanuel79]

My Aunty... she's just 19 years old. Anyone knows who I am and how I played... my Aunty can too... she can play stuff whatever she heard on the radio, she can create her own lead solo stuff. Just give her any chords you like and play with her... she will knock you out. There are a lot of girls who can play very well but they are not like us (the boys) who is of course more ego than girls guitarist. Actually, there are a lot but they are shy to do so to show themselves. You are not alone....

[Lordathestrings]

Does anyone remember the Bangles? They didn't make a big issue out of being an all-girl band, they just made good music.

As for the pitch of the lead singer's voice, that gets taken into account during the song-writing process. Lee Aaron, Sass Jordan, Alannah Myles, Toronto, and The Headpins are all Canadian heavy-rock bands built around female vocalists.

In the USA there's Melissa Etheridge, Heart, Hole, Seven Year Bitch, Biff Naked, Bonnie Rait, and probably a bunch more who don't get up this way very often. The point is, Women who rock, rock just as hard as the guys do. There just don't seem to be as many of them. (Maybe they have better sense! :D )

[trebledamage]

Jennifer Batten has shown herself to be a damn good guitar player. I like some of the stuff she has done with Jeff Beck.

Male or Female shouldn't really factor into who can or cannot play the guitar. Personally, if you put a guitar in a room with C.C. Deville, Vinnie Moore or Alicia Keys, I'd be much more interested in what Alicia Keys(sp?) would play.

[Zeppelin]

Originally posted by trebledamage
Jennifer Batten has shown herself to be a damn good guitar player. I like some of the stuff she has done with Jeff Beck.

Male or Female shouldn't really factor into who can or cannot play the guitar. Personally, if you put a guitar in a room with C.C. Deville, Vinnie Moore or Alicia Keys, I'd be much more interested in what Alicia Keys(sp?) would play.

my guess is that it would be a song in Am
:)

[trebledamage]

She seems to be a big fan of Eb minor as well.

[chris mood]

Natalie Merchant used to have a female guitar player in her band, she was really good, sort of bluesy meets classic rock.

[Bardsley]

Well, this is one of those posts designed to attract females to the guitar world, at least at first. Rask, just yesterday I was listening to Ani Difranco's "Living in CLip" live album again, very cool bass lines were filling the car. As for why we rarely see females playing lead guitar like Satch or Vai, or metal players, ask yourself this: "how many females are in the audience?" You see the audiences of shred concerts being made up almost entirely of guys, and maybe you come to realise that it's a style of music that appeals mainly to a particular gender. Traditional Bulgarian folk singing has a small audience too, but I rarely wonder why it is that no guys I know can sing like that.

[Incidents Happen]

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Sara Lee!

I've been noodling on some B 52s stuff a lot lately. And I love her work with Ani Difranco.



Hey! Sara Lee makes food! I think i got some in my refrigerator!

Well, i think its hard for girls to play Acoustic guitars because, well, if a girl with big breasts wanted to play sitting down, she'd have to flop her breasts on the top of the guitar which would put her right hand in an akward position. The fingers being little is also one bad thing.

"i am not a sexist pig"
lol thats hilarious

[nechako]

A guitar neck is a phallic symbol. Check out the neck and head stock of a fender strat and the way a lot of 80's shredders played them, notice similarities to other activities men perform? Ripping solos lay you back, warm love songs by women invite you in. What you think?

[Incidents Happen]

in my opinion, the best love songs were written by Robert Hunter, the Grateful Dead lyricist. ok ok so the dead didnt have any REAL REAL love songs by today's standards, but they had some slow songs that had love in them.

I am really suprized at the Men/Woman Ration for Keyboard. If i remember right, there are more men keyboardists than woman, and personally i think women do a great job at keyboaring ( but not guitar )

[Christoph]

Originally posted by nechako
A guitar neck is a phallic symbol. Check out the neck and head stock of a fender strat and the way a lot of 80's shredders played them, notice similarities to other activities men perform? . . . What you think?

I think you're exactly right.

[lalimacefolle]

I own a steinberger... Am I normal, doctor?

[Lordathestrings]

Originally posted by nechako
A guitar neck is a phallic symbol. Check out the neck and head stock of a fender strat and the way a lot of 80's shredders played them, notice similarities to other activities men perform? ...The term 'wanker', as applied to guitarists, becomes self-explanatory! :D

[Bardsley]

Of course, the guitar body, particularly when related to the bodies of cellos and other stringed instruments, would often be seen as a female form, with a slim waist and large hips. Anyone who has seen that classic portrait of the nude woman from behind, sitting down with the two f-holes painted on her back will know what I mean. But yes, the guitar neck is often used as a phallic symbol - particularly among 80s rock/shred etc -, this could have something to do with guys feelings of inadequacy? Maybe it's just that guys find it too hard to keep their hands out of their pants for a whole set...
As for that comment about women not pl;aying acoustic guitar because of their breats, do you actually know any women? Have you actually seen a woman hold a guitar? If you had, you might realise that it's not really problem, breasts are not like annoying air balloons that hinder movement, are you going to suggest that they can't play sport either?

[friskynibbles]

As a psychology student, I find this thread hilarious. Interesting argument...

[Christoph]

Originally posted by Bardsley
Of course, the guitar body, particularly when related to the bodies of cellos and other stringed instruments, would often be seen as a female form, with a slim waist and large hips . . . But yes, the guitar neck is often used as a phallic symbol . . .

So a guitar is sort of like a female body with a penis on top?

Originally posted by Bardsley
As for that comment about women not pl;aying acoustic guitar because of their breats, do you actually know any women? Have you actually seen a woman hold a guitar? If you had, you might realise that it's not really problem, breasts are not like annoying air balloons that hinder movement . . .

Hmmmm . . . about the whole "breasts getting in the way thing" - I've seen acoustic guitars that have a cutout in the back.

[chris mood]

get outa here -lol- are you serious christoph?

[Raskolnikov]

Originally posted by Lordathestrings
Alannah Myles

Somebody who holds up live please! (We are talking about the woman who re-did "Black Velvet," right?)

I can think of lots of kick ass female musicians who I've seen, but can't remember their names simply because it wasn't quite my kind of listening. Also, speaking of vocalists, Joan Osborn comes to mind. You all need to hear some of her live stuff if you haven't allready.

[Bardsley]

Yes, the guitar is transexual! lol. Of course, when people start treating objects as memebers of the opposite sex, or extensions of their own, it seems like something wrong is going on. It's like I've always been wary of people talking about their cars as women, though it seems everyone (male and female alike) seems to do it. Of course, treating objects as women can't be as bad as treating women as objects...

[Psycho Amram]

nver thought the post will go THAT far...

so what do you say bout drummers that they got two... you know what i mean... and a whole set of babes around them that they f***em one by one 10 times a sec?
man maybe i should have buy drums... ;)

[mamamalabass]

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Sara Lee!

I've been noodling on some B 52s stuff a lot lately. And I love her work with Ani Difranco.

I actually know of a lot of up and coming female bassists.

Of course, playing bass ties in with the whole "songwriting" aspect of music; you have to pay a lot of attention to how what you're playing relates to the song as a whole. have axe will definitly travel

[mamamalabass]

Originally posted by PonyOne
Unfortunately, I think that many of the girl bands out there aren't really into the music so much as making the point that they are girls who play electric guitars and rock.

Sadly, as guitarists like Lita Ford, the lead singer/guitarist of Handsome 3some, and a host of others have showed us, girls/women can be proficient, talented and unique guitarists. But I think a lot who would make some really great rock are discouraged by the fact that rock is male-dominated, and worry that they'll have to either be sex objects or bitch about political causes to be heard or taken seriously.

I hate Kittie, the all-girl rock band who went on Family Values. They sound like a retard chorus! They're not good musicians, and the when the lead singer growls, it embarasses me, and I don't even have anything to do with them. a lot of girls need to realize is that music by the likes of Static X, Filter, and a host of other rock bands, require a deeper voice; at the very highest, a low tenor. And most girls are sopranos or mezzo sopranos. Even a girl with a deep voice (usually Alto) is gonna have a hard time playing songs of that nature because they just can't get the low growl & grind that a really big testosterone-pumped dude can.

A month or two back, there was a female musician who posted a message up asking for female musicians, and I was nice & gave her a few pointers on starting a band. Somewhere in the post I said "I respect your cause" meaning "I respect that you want to start a female rock band." And she jumps all over me about how she doesn't have a CAUSE and maybe I should ASK before I assume.

I ended up making some really scathing remark informing her that she was the one who needed to ask, not me, and that she should practice not being so touchy & overreactive. She never posted again.

Sadly this attitude mimics that of many female rockers I've met: "I'm a bitch, I'm a lover, I'm a child, I'm a mother, I'm a snner I'm a saint, I do not feel ashamed" and all men should stand down as she proceeds to make bad, thoughtless drivel about how we're all pigs. She and her friends are gonna take back the airwaves and smack it to all us guys! Womyn unite!

If more girls and women could take an egalitarian mindset and just form a band cause they like making music, not to make a point about anything.

That said, most of the better girl bands I've heard voiced their instruments arond the sound of the vocalist's voice. If Kittie traded their ESP's for Jaguars, it'd probably help a little... i agree with you about kitty

[mrcrowley]

The whole point of this thread was: Are there any good girl guitarists out there?

My answer is: The lead guitarist from L7 is amazing. She can shred like a maniac, and her solos are creative too. She's the fastest female rock guitarist I've ever heard.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by chris mood
get outa here -lol- are you serious christoph?

LOL! I was just taking Bardsley's reasoning to its final insanity.

[Incidents Happen]

yeah thats right!

You tell that to a girl with massive breast implants, eh?
;)
hah



[Edited by Incidents Happen on 01-10-2002 at 09:15 PM]

[Bardsley]

Of course, I'm going to sound really wierd here, but please don't lock me up for being a sicko here... I tend to look at my guitar and see it as... a guitar. A beautiful instrument that represents a helluva lot of love, care and passion fo music. If anyone here hasn't realised before now - Christoph, I'm sure you've seen my rampblings before! - I do tend to explore ideas, no matter how crazy they may get. Kinda makes you wonder what a clarinet player is doing though, doesn't it?

[PonyOne]

My girlfriend is starting to get into guitar... she's played clarinet for a really long time.

I gave her my Tele to play on; I'm a lefty, and it's a righty, which I got in the hopes that someday I could learn to play right handed. I couldn't, so I gave it to her.

My girlfriend wears a 36EE (yes, you read that right... they are as big as my head and she is not fat) and can't play the thing sitting down, unless she puts one in the curve at the top of the guitar, which looks... cool, but draws unwanted attention.

The only guitars that seem to fit her right are Explorers, but she doesn't like the neck, so she ends up going for the ESP EX line, which are more stylized and have thinner necks.
Standing up most guitars are okay, but she tends to hold them to the side a lot more than most people because they still bump together. But most girls don't have this problem, and I'm lucky to witness it...

[Zeppelin]

i never thought that its so hard to be a girl.
maybe its the answer for the question. we should do a research about girl's bra size and her ability to play the guitar.

[friskynibbles]

my girlfriend is pretty stacked and they get in the way all the time, not to mention the back pain etc so she's getting a reduction soon.
*shrug*
i like 'em smaller anyway...

[Christoph]

Originally posted by Zeppelin
we should do a research about girl's bra size and her ability to play the guitar.

I'm sure you would find that there's an inverse relationship between breast size and guitar playing ability.

We should get a government grant to confirm my theory.

[nechako]

Hey good idea I applied for a government grant to bang an anvil with a hammer on cbc radio. They thought it was really artistic.

[mamamalabass]

Originally posted by Christoph
Originally posted by Zeppelin
we should do a research about girl's bra size and her ability to play the guitar.

I'm sure you would find that there's an inverse relationship between breast size and guitar playing ability.

We should get a government grant to confirm my theory. lol probably could

[mamamalabass]

Originally posted by Psycho Amram
maybe its for the best
this way we can play a horribly simple lick or somethin' and get ourselves dates!

anyway forget about the whole thread i had a dream last night that we played with this HOT female bassist and the first moment we played the next she jumped at me trying to cut me open! lol

[Raskolnikov]

I'm starting to wonder if this is going to turn into the Guitar Tricks equivalant of the 45 page (and still growing) thread devoted entirely to ass pictures on another message board I frequent. I'm probably the only board member (male OR female) NOT to have contributed to it so far.

People scare me.

OK, so I really like it, but still... Where's the logic?
I NEED LOGIC DAMNIT!

[mamamalabass]

you just think you need logic. It's ok people scare me too.lol.This is becoming a very interesting thread.You guys have some interesting viewpoints.It is definitly good for my daily laugh allotment.keep em' coming.

[Lordathestrings]

I'm going to broach a related subject that hasn't been mentioned yet. In a good band, the players relate to each other on a level that 'mere mortals' don't understand. The amount of passion involved, and the kind of connection that we get with each other, creates a kind of intimacy that raises some heavy levels of sexual tension.

This can cause bands to self-destruct quickly, especially on road-trips where band members often learn to detest each other anyway.

[mamamalabass]

I can see your point lordofthestrings but I also believe that not all things felt should be acted on and, with some sense ,that same tension can be used for creative purposes.

[nechako]

D dorian cup size with aeolian hips, jazz style...

[Raskolnikov]

All I have to say is "bring on the funk."

Or to drop my signature on other sites:
"If it doesn't sound like it belongs on a p orn soundtrack, you're not playing bass."

[mamamalabass]

good one Rask.luv that funk

[nechako]

okay its time to put the microsoft condom on, the new antivirus protection from trojhtm, before my hard drive gets something funky from all dis freaky deaky.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
I'm starting to wonder if this is going to turn into the Guitar Tricks equivalant of the 45 page (and still growing) thread devoted entirely to ass pictures on another message board I frequent.

Oh yeah? Which message board would that be?


Originally posted by Psycho Amram
i know i sound sexist which i am not but how many girls are there that can REALLY play guitar?
i know some that think they can but they can only play few chord (and some not even that) but i never saw a real girl guitar player...

Ok, I have a new theory about this. And this actually going to be a bonified post, so listen up.

Callouses . . . rather unsightly and a necessary evil of playing the guitar. I've noticed that most women/girls spend a good deal of time making sure their hands look refined and sexy. Lotion, manicures, etc. (this is an interesting phenomenon, since most guys spend little to no time looking at a girl's hands.) Girls might learn a few chords and songs, but most won't want to give up their nice nails and soft skin for some real practice and technique.

Thoughts?

[Lordathestrings]

In high school, I was president of the folk club. The guys spent most of their time showing each other how to play the latest Gord Lightfoot release, (this was a long time ago), but only two of the girls were willing to sacrifice their long nails. We had some great singers in that club, though.

[Psycho Amram]

ya your right the best one i saw didnt have long nails but the soft skin was the limit though she pushed it a bit...
she had acoustic so old that the strings where more than centimeter away from the body. the first time i played it i couldnt produce bar chord!
most of us guys really dont care how we look (am i alone in this?)

[Lordathestrings]

When you get to be my age, its kind of a lost cause, ya know? :D

[mamamalabass]

I for one have no fingernails and callouses on both hands.this is due to the fact that I play bass with my fingers and not a pick as well as rythm guitar.It all boils down to how much music really means to you.If it is the main part of your existence as it is in my case then fingernails just don't mean a thing when compared to my passion for playing.There is a point I'd like to bring up however.If women weren't judged so much on looks(this I believe may be the fault of the male lol)then maybe it would be easier?

[guitar_babe]

Well, i am a girl, and i play very good! I know a few songs but i taught myself everything. I think breasts get in the way if there too big, and i think that girls can play guitar as good as boys

[Raskolnikov]

Originally posted by Christoph
Originally posted by Raskolnikov
I'm starting to wonder if this is going to turn into the Guitar Tricks equivalant of the 45 page (and still growing) thread devoted entirely to ass pictures on another message board I frequent.

Oh yeah? Which message board would that be?

Clutch's message board.

It's funny because the band seems (for the most part) to be pretty clean cut, while their fan base is (for the most part) a bunch of alcoholic, bisexual, midget obsessed freaks.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by Lordathestrings
When you get to be my age, its kind of a lost cause, ya know?

LOL.


Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Clutch's message board.

Clutch? What's dat?

[Raskolnikov]

Originally posted by Christoph
Clutch? What's dat?

Hmmm....
How does one describe Clutch...
Somewhere between an alien abduction obsessed redneck version of Zeppelin and a funkified Black Sabbath. We're talking yarns describing redneck shoguns, yetis, beautiful female terrorists, conspiracies, paranoia, dragonflies, all that is rock, religeous debates, alien invasions, finding the body of John Wilkes Booth, holiday meals and activities, and much much more all set to some serious riffage.

[Tommy9]

Isn't the Great Kat a chick guitarist?

[Awok'th'egalee]

I had a student for two years. Her name was Amanda. I taught her theory and She is an amazing guitarist.I taught her 3 different tunings and She learned them. I'm not an Yngwie fan, But I taught her some stuff. I taught her to play "The star spangled banner" in D and A and She LEARNED them and can now play everything she knows in any key, any tuning. She practises VERY hrd and I'm very proud of her. By the way, Amanda is 16.

Girls can play just as well if not better than guys.
Awok

[PonyOne]

I think that the notion that someone can play "as good if not better" than someone due to gender is kinda stupid, like "a black dude could probably shoot hoops better than any white guy can."

Some people have a higher propensity for things than other people. It doesn't really matter "what" you are, you're a HUMAN BEING goddamn it, $%&*$ or no $%&*$! I'll probably get kicked off the board for saying this, but when was the last time lower genetalia played a serious role in your musical abilities?? Sure, a girl w/big breasts (like my aforementioned g/f) may have a harder time holding a guitar than a girl w/smaller breasts or a guy, but she could always get something that's got deeper contours than a Tele or LP, like an Explorer or SG.

Girls can be great guitarists if they practice and quit trying to hold the "PUNK GRRL w/feather boa" image up, just like boys can get great if they're not like "OKAY, I'M GONNA BE THE NEXT SLIPKNOT! GIMME AN IBANEZ AND A SCARY MASK!" rather than learning how to play.

[Edited by Zeppelin on 01-17-2002 at 03:39 PM]

[Christoph]

Well, I see that we have once again regressed to the obscene . . . :eek: (not that I'm completely blameless.....lol)

Anyway, Pony, I think you're right. Certain people have certain talents, and there's no use trying to make distinctions along unrelated lines (i.e. gender, race, etc).

Society is what makes us what we are. Aside from maybe big breasts getting in the way (lol), there's nothing that physically prevents females from being just as good of guitarists as males. Going back to what I was saying before, it's just a cultural/societal thing that tells women that they need to have nice hands and inhibits them from practicing and maybe becoming as good.

[Zeppelin]

Originally posted by PonyOne


I'll probably get kicked off the board for saying this



Dont worry, i just edited the ***** word out
:)

[nechako]

What Pony said really hit the spot for me. I was just getting really irritated with all the so an so can play this or that and they are only 2 years old, in any key timing instrument, backwards forwards etc. The whole thing about people and ibanez's trying to be the next "shock" by imitating the same lame. I go through this in my life; someone says "you should see "bill" he can play excellent by ear Alice in Chains and everything!!!". Then I meet the guy he's an addict that poorly plays the same song over an over out of tune, and is completely musically illiterate has bad timing and slopy ear, but he has the drug dealer 80's audacity, bad hair look with tight pants and ear ring to convince a few inbred people that he is a god. This used to get right under my skin, now when someone starts to go on an on about someone I ignore them, proof is in the pudding-let them step up and play, leave the talk-just be honest and play where yer at. Male or female stop competting and play your part honestly. (hockey players trying to be musicians-arrrrg!)