to be as good as...

[Incidents Happen]

hey
ok, so everybody pretty much knows that im 14 and that i've been playin for 9 months right? alright, i know one thing. and that is that the more you practice...you guessed it...the better you become. i read in one of my Jerry Garcia biography's, that Jerry would practice all the time. If he didnt get in 4 hours of practice he would be fussy. Which makes sense, if i dont get in 2 i get worried. And thats on my ****ty electric guitar. When my acoustic/electric comes, i believe i'll be up to 4 or 5 hours a day. I know somebody on here will be like "quality practice not quantity", but i practice scales and modes and chords alot, im not really one to fool around 'too much'. i was just wondering how often do you recommend practicing for a kid my age (14)? I've been SEARCHING thouroughly to find out when some of my jam band idols ( trey,jerry,etc) started playing guitar and now know jerry started at age 15, but havent found **** about trey anastasio.

[Psycho Amram]

i don't know how much practice is "the best" for ya i guess it's what you feel
see, when i got started i was so excited i played 'till i literally couldn't make my finger move anymore (and bled alot) but after a time i cooled down (especially when my parents tarted screaming at me not to play after 12:00 AM :) )
and now i have luck if i find time for more than hour a day.

oh and about the bands thing (in another post of yours) i've got a band but we are not going for fame (at least for now) and only a handful of our frieds heard our recordings (but a lot more heard about them) we do it for fun

[Zeppelin]

i was 14 when i started to play, and i played clasic guitar for one year, so i had to practice a hour everyday, and i didnt enjoy it very much because i didnt like clasical music that much.
now when i look back i can say that this year was the most important year for me as a guitar player. even though i didnt learn many songs or theory i learned how to aproach the guitar, which is very important. so my advice is practice as much as you can, i think that practicing when you are a beginer is more important than practice when you are advanced player, because the basics that you learn and practice in the beginning are like a ladder which later will be the tool for you to go on, and to learn easily any style you'd like

[Incidents Happen]

Originally posted by Psycho Amram
i don't know how much practice is "the best" for ya i guess it's what you feel
see, when i got started i was so excited i played 'till i literally couldn't make my finger move anymore (and bled alot) but after a time i cooled down (especially when my parents tarted screaming at me not to play after 12:00 AM :) )
and now i have luck if i find time for more than hour a day.

oh and about the bands thing (in another post of yours) i've got a band but we are not going for fame (at least for now) and only a handful of our frieds heard our recordings (but a lot more heard about them) we do it for fun

lol. well see i wouldnt do it just for fame either. But i always wondered how to get booked into big hallrooms like the fillmore and stuff. I mean who wouldnt want to play in front of 50,000 people at M.S.G? I never have trusted record company's, and i think if i ever got a good band together we'd make our own label. Just like one of my favorite bands, String Cheese Incident. SCI Fedelity, they made.
now i believe practice is just as important when your younger and everything as much as it is as you get older. I believe anybody ( especially those with bigger fingers and imaginations) can become a professional musician if they stay with it and practice their ass off all the time. You know what i mean? Im starting making riffs now, using mostly the B Major Pentatonic Scale, and the B major scale. Why did I choose B? because the song 'Fire On The Mountain' by the grateful Dead is in the key of B ( usually ), so then i got somethin to work off of that.
I just picked up some American Folk Music book, and i memorized the first few songs in there. I dont know how they go ( i made the arrangement up myself) they had the chords there, but didnt have the rhythm. And i think i'll be doing that stuff ( folk music ) throughout my life, continuously learning music, etc.


** Oh yeah and the big hands part- Thats just what i've seen, people with little hands struggle to play Barr Chords and stretch their fingers over frets lets say...5 frets apart. just my observations**

[Edited by Incidents Happen on 12-26-2001 at 04:20 PM]

[lalimacefolle]

I've practiced for a year 5 hours a day, but looking back, it wasn't very effective. I have come up with a two hours routine, and I've tried sticking to it for ten years. I'm a pro guitarist now, so I guess it has worked.
You said anyone with enough work could become a pro... I disagree. I'd say that anyone with practice could have a pro LEVEL, but being a professional musician involves a lot of things that don't have anything to do with music... I've jammed with guys that could shred me to pitiful chunks of meat with a guitar, but that were total idiots, and kept on turning their amps louder (that's an example) well, that kind of guy comes once on a session, but not another time. If you are a team players, have good social skills, and a small ego, you can become a pro. If you have talent and a lot of luck, you can maybe become a star. But lots of talented guys play in their bedrooms, because they do not have the authority and discipline it takes.

[Incidents Happen]

Originally posted by lalimacefolle
I've practiced for a year 5 hours a day, but looking back, it wasn't very effective. I have come up with a two hours routine, and I've tried sticking to it for ten years. I'm a pro guitarist now, so I guess it has worked.
You said anyone with enough work could become a pro... I disagree. I'd say that anyone with practice could have a pro LEVEL, but being a professional musician involves a lot of things that don't have anything to do with music... I've jammed with guys that could shred me to pitiful chunks of meat with a guitar, but that were total idiots, and kept on turning their amps louder (that's an example) well, that kind of guy comes once on a session, but not another time. If you are a team players, have good social skills, and a small ego, you can become a pro. If you have talent and a lot of luck, you can maybe become a star. But lots of talented guys play in their bedrooms, because they do not have the authority and discipline it takes.

good point. but work ethic is a big part. idiots cannot be pros, one reason is because of their work ethic.
5 hours didnt work for you? over the summer i'd practice 5 hours a day ( but mostly on Bar Chords, i was really new back then and struggled with bars) and i look back and that summer, i learned how to do bar chords better than any of my friends can.i watch some people on TV and i see them playing like an A major barr chord, and i can just follow whatever they do and eventually get the progression by watching what they do.

so you dont recommend 5 hours a day? heh, i'll do it anyways, it cant hurt ya. it probably helped you, you just didnt know it.

[Incidents Happen]

lalimacefolle your a smart guy. how old are you and how old were you when you started playing?

[lalimacefolle]

I'm 24, and I started playing the guitar around 13. When I said 5 hours weren't good, it wasn't because of the time, but because I didn't have discipline. VAI has a routine that works for 10 hours...

[Incidents Happen]

Originally posted by lalimacefolle
I'm 24, and I started playing the guitar around 13. When I said 5 hours weren't good, it wasn't because of the time, but because I didn't have discipline. VAI has a routine that works for 10 hours...

oh...10 hours!!! wow!

[lalimacefolle]

I've finally understood that he wasn't from the same planet...

[Incidents Happen]

Originally posted by lalimacefolle
I've finally understood that he wasn't from the same planet...

where did you find out that vai goes for 10 hours a day?

[lalimacefolle]

it was in guitar player, I've just seen the cover, I'm still looking for the article.

[Zeppelin]

Originally posted by lalimacefolle
I've finally understood that he wasn't from the same planet...

did you hear his outakes album? i cant remember its name, but it is the album with the **** you song..
the guy is seriously sick :)

[chris mood]

When I was in college I decided that if I was gonna make music my living I was gonna start appraoching it like a job and started to practice 8 hrs a day (that didn't include the jam sessions, gigs, and teaching I was doing).
Looking back on it I'm sure glad I did it (sure I missed out on a lot of great parties)but it has really paid off. Now that I'm making a living playing/teaching I wish I had 2hrs a day to practice what I want too. Put the time into it while you can, because you never Know what tommorrow brings.

[Incidents Happen]

good idea. i like how you think, approach it like a regular job, 8 hours a day. that makes vai's 10 hour approach seem more reasonable.

[chris mood]

remember...there is a difference between playing and practicing. A lot of guys will pick up the guitar and noodle for a couple hrs, thats not practicing. I started playing when I was 11, but I didn't actually learn what practicing was until my early 20's.
Learn theory, learn to read (I'm not talking tab here), and get yourself a good teacher, if you got the work ethic and the personality you can go far.

[Incidents Happen]

Originally posted by chris mood
remember...there is a difference between playing and practicing. A lot of guys will pick up the guitar and noodle for a couple hrs, thats not practicing. I started playing when I was 11, but I didn't actually learn what practicing was until my early 20's.
Learn theory, learn to read (I'm not talking tab here), and get yourself a good teacher, if you got the work ethic and the personality you can go far.

man, chris, your almost making me piss my pants im so happy to hear that. I have a good teacher, work ethic and personality, and im learning theory ( and love it), only thing i dont have is how to learn to read music yet...my instructor told me i dont have to really learn to read music for a few years, but if i did it'd be really good.

as for 'noodling or practicing' goes, i do scales, chords, and try to work riffs out of the scales. thats considered practicing right? because i mean, i've been really workin the B major Pentatonic, and i memorized every note in it and can play it in my sleep backwards, forwards, the roots, everything in it, im taking it one scale at a time. and i do alot of riff-work, but its all INSIDE the scales, so therefore its like scale-work. thats not 'noodling' is it?

[Edited by Incidents Happen on 12-29-2001 at 02:53 PM]

[Raskolnikov]

I've had my best improvments as a musician come from actually playing out. Nothing like learning a Zeppelin tune or two on stage to make you fast on your toes.

[Incidents Happen]

whats that mean

[trebledamage]

I think hes referring to playing on stage. Although I think Chris really hit the mark, Ras makes an important point. You really will see drastic improvement in your playing if you incorporate some form of stage experience with you lessons, practice routine, etc... Open Mic nights or open jam sessions at restaurants, bars, book stores, or coffee houses are a great way to break into playing in front of an audience. Its a great way to meet other musicians as well.

As for the person who started this thread, the amount of time you practice really depends on what you are seeking to accomplish on the guitar. If you want to play like Joe Pass, then set aside a considerable amount of time each day because you will have your work cut out for you. If you want to play Green Day songs, you will probably need much less time to accomplish your goal. (No offense to Green Day fans) There really is no set time. But you should make it a point to "practice" every day. Like Chris said, right now you have more time than you will ever have to practice. It gets much harder once you get a job, family, etc...

[Incidents Happen]

Originally posted by trebledamage
I think hes referring to playing on stage. Although I think Chris really hit the mark, Ras makes an important point. You really will see drastic improvement in your playing if you incorporate some form of stage experience with you lessons, practice routine, etc... Open Mic nights or open jam sessions at restaurants, bars, book stores, or coffee houses are a great way to break into playing in front of an audience. Its a great way to meet other musicians as well.

As for the person who started this thread, the amount of time you practice really depends on what you are seeking to accomplish on the guitar. If you want to play like Joe Pass, then set aside a considerable amount of time each day because you will have your work cut out for you. If you want to play Green Day songs, you will probably need much less time to accomplish your goal. (No offense to Green Day fans) There really is no set time. But you should make it a point to "practice" every day. Like Chris said, right now you have more time than you will ever have to practice. It gets much harder once you get a job, family, etc...

lol i want to play like jerry garcia. i have a new schedule now. I practice 5 hours a day no matter what. its worked out for me so far pretty good.

i have a job at mcdonalds, they only work me 5 hours a week though. Harsh! lol. I've been playing alot of folk music lately, i figure if i want to play like jerry garcia i have to have the mind of jerry garcia ( not to mention that i already like folk music!) so its pretty good now, 14 year old kid with the practice routine of over 5 hours a day.

[Edited by Incidents Happen on 12-30-2001 at 04:39 PM]

[Raskolnikov]

I also ment jamming in general. When you're playing with other people you learn how to bounce ideas off of eachother, to communicate without words, and you're forced to tow your weight- if you screw up, it shows. If you let your mistake throw you off, you leave a much more noticable "space" in the music.

It also forces you to look at what you're doing in the context of a band- I can play this crazy fill, but will it work with what we're doing? Ok, maybe it will, but how do I make it fit?

There's a lot you can only learn by playing with people and a lot you can only learn by playing in front of an audience.

Not that I wouldn't have preferred to have learned those Zeppelin tunes before I went on stage, but I was a last minute addition anyway- I had bought a ticket before they asked If I'd play bass for it, and the guy who organized the show still owes me $15.

[Incidents Happen]

yes! exactly! Theres this band i like called the Big Wu, and well they have the greatest lyrics, im tellin' ya. anyways, the music is great too, but not 'too' complicated. i found a tab site for them and was like thinkin "i can do this, all of this, except where it says 'jam' because i cant make solo's up really great yet". any help on this, because the two things missing in my guitar playing are-

Solo-ing great

Jamming Great

I know for a fact that I could become a great jammer, i have jammed with my instructor a few times and it didnt sound too bad. In my opinion it was okay, but my teacher and my mom said it sounded excellent.
Solo-ing though, for a 14 year old kid, is tough. For me at least. Is it kind of like how you have to get used to it, like chords? with repetition, etc?
I can do other people's solo's real easily, but 'making my own' solos...im having difficulty with. I can play 'solos' that are based out of the scales, but i cant get them to sound GREAT. Am i trying too hard to get this perfection?

[chris mood]

If you wait 2yrs before tackling note reading your gonna have to regress so far back your never gonna want to do it. Think of practicing as weight training, you can't just excercise one muscle group because their gonna be stronger then the rest and over compensate..you have to do everything equally.
So tell that teacher of yours you wanna start learning to read music NOW..in the long run it's a lot easier then reading tabs..plus horn players and piano players don't read tab..and they don't write out the parts for the guitarist in tab either..so if you want to learn the international lingo of music learn to read. Some of my best teachers played instruments other then guitar (sax, piano, vibes)you don't have to limit your musical education to just studying w/guitar players.

[trebledamage]

He's right. I learned how to read music in grade school when I played trumpet. I avoided reading music for the guitar though, because it was more difficult than reading tab. Unfortunately, I realized many years later that to get to a higher level with the guitar, I was going to have to improve my music reading skills. Even with knowing how to read music, I had to take a major step backward to learn how to apply my music reading skills to the guitar. It was very humbling and frustrating. Save yourself a lot of trouble and learn how to read music now, instead of later on in life.

It's what Jerry would have wanted for you!!!

[Incidents Happen]

your lucky you said its what jerry would have wanted for me because if you hadn't i probably wouldnt have listened.
I got myself a music reading thing, and Im going to learn to read music. I know the notes on the fretboard ( always have, well for a few months at least), and if you guys say its gonna help me out i bet it will. Um...about 'how' much will it help in playing?

[Lordathestrings]

A lot of our heroes started out as 'session' players - sidemen who play a few tracks for someone else's recording session. Buddy Guy was doing this kind of work at Chess Records before he headlined his own band.

An old joke among session players:

Q: "How do you get a B.S. wanker to shut up?
A: "Hand him some sheet music!"

[Bardsley]

Everyone wants to be a rockstar, but the more I play the guitar (should I add, the more I play my new second-hand '93 strat plus, drool, drool), the more I realise what an honour it would be simply - read, not at all simply; probably a lot harder than being a rock star - to be seen as a good seesion musician. Bruce Langhorne, who played on lots of Dylan's 60's rock stuff I just love listening to; it's the session guys who make albums by solo artists really come alive.

[Bardsley]

Everyone wants to be a rockstar, but the more I play the guitar (should I add, the more I play my new second-hand '93 strat plus, drool, drool), the more I realise what an honour it would be simply - read, not at all simply; probably a lot harder than being a rock star - to be seen as a good seesion musician. Bruce Langhorne, who played on lots of Dylan's 60's rock stuff I just love listening to; it's the session guys who make albums by solo artists really come alive.

[lalimacefolle]

yep! and most of "real" musicians aren't rock stars, but they actually make more money than some of them.... Tommy TEDESCO was one of them!!

[lukather/timmons]

Im 14, been playing since I was like 6.. But as Chris said there is a difference between practising and playing, until about a year ago I didn't practise much, but played alot..

I play from 2 up to 8 or 9 hours a day, but not all of that time is practise, some of it is noodling aswell :)

[chris mood]

Like I said before, just cause you play guitar that doesn't mean you have to just study guitar music. Music for violin fits very well on the guitar and will help you with your technique as well...also try reading through some Charlie Parker solo's with the Omni Book, notice how many Jerresque licks you'll find in there. Oh..you'll have a hard time finding these things in tab.

[Incidents Happen]

thanks for everybodies tips. and for the 'rockstar' thing, if i ever got a great band together and we were touring and in front of like 10,000 people, i wouldnt want to just explode and rip the guitar up ( shreddin like crazy when yur not sposed to), i would probably be just happy that that many people showed up. I get kind of embarrassed when somebody says something to me like "oh wow you got a pretty groovy technique" i got that one a few times...
I'm developing a state of mind where im starting to sit down and express my emotions into scales ( usually the major scale cuz im happy alot:)), and anyways, i got my acoustic/electric DCE-1 Guild today, and i was happy, and sat down, and was playin good ole folk songs for about an hour, then i just started tryin to make a riff, and i made this killer riff. doesnt sound that great on an electric but i really like it on an acoustic. i'd post it but i change it every time. Its in the key of B ( like usual for me) and i really dont know how to type stuff out in tab online yet. anyone know how to do that?

[Incidents Happen]

from reading the previous messages i wrote not long ago, i realize now how much better i have gotten since then. times like these that are the greatest in the world...

[Jimmy Page XVI]

I perfectly understand what you said, yet I believe that practicing for five hours or so is not very productive. Now I'm no expert in the guitar, yet I do understand how the brain functions (I have two friends who went to Berkley and took some lessons, one of which stressed this point). If you are still beginning to learn the guitar, I would not recommend a five hour session for several reasons. First, your brain will get incredibly tired, and it does not happen only in music, it happens in almost every other aspect of your daily life, thereby reducing your productivity. Second, since your brain will get tired, then you will start making errors that may hinder your progress, especially in the basics learning phase. Third, you may get a bit tired of the guitar; I do not mean that the enthusiam wont come back, yet you will loose some time while you get the interest back (strange thing this one). In the end, we are not all professionals, (say as the Beatles who would practice for 8 straight hours a day) take your time, learn things one at a time and take some breaks. You will come with a less stressed brain back to the guitar.

[lalimacefolle]

Very good point, but having some kind of work technique, you can work for hours without getting tired or bored or anything...
I'm not saying it works for everyone, since I have lost some time wandering around when I first started practicing for several hours a day. But if you have a good teacher and discipline, you'll have to work a tremendous amount of time to have mastery over your instrument. You need work and time, and you need to consider all the points you have made. Put them all together, and you'll work more effeciently.

[Incidents Happen]

i usually go an hour, take a fifteen minute break, then go for 2 hours, take a fifteen minute break, then just go and go and go.

lamicafolloe ( i will never get his name right...) is right, because i never really do get tired of playing. if my brain feels stressed, i just stop playing for a little bit, usually play a videogame for a half hour. works for me.

we are not all proffesionals, true, but to become a professional, takes time, hard work, determination, and work ethic. im extremely interested in playing music the rest of my natural life, so 5 hours a day is completely nessecarry ( sp?), and i believe if i go less than 2, it loses it's seriousness. Guitar was made to be played, and as thomas jefferson was at the books for 15 hours a day out of 24, i am at my guitar for at least 5 out of every 24.

since i started doing this , 2 months ago, i learned more than i did in 6 months normally. if you can take years of practice off by crunching it all in, then why not do it? my technique just keeps getting better, its not getting worse. and when my brain gets tired, i sing a few songs if i dont feel like playing a game. songs usually bring back my attention, especially grateful dead songs.

i now have the skill to improvise, and i get better and better at improvisation every week. every week counts, every day counts. there is not a day since july that i have not played the guitar.

also, since i play an acoustic, my fingers just keep getting stronger the more i play. another thing about practice :)

[Edited by Incidents Happen on 02-10-2002 at 04:36 PM]

[frettycrouger]

i am 15...i started when i was 14..i wish i had the same mentality as you do....to where i will only play things i dont know so i can continue to get better...

but i dont do that..and a lot of my time is spent dicking around and not getting better...
but i still usually throw in about 1 hour of totaly dedicated time to getting better...
on the weekends...much more time is put to getting better...
i cant help you at all...because you are better then me :)

[Raskolnikov]

I've been shown a thing or two by a lot of people less technically advanced than I. Sometimes it's something that seems small yet is very critical in the big picture like knowing when not to play.

Everybody's got something they can teach somebody else, and everybody's got something to learn from everybody else.

[Incidents Happen]

seriously though, i started doing some fingerpicking ( i had a little experience with it a few months ago) tonight andim not that bad at it. but things branch off, the better you get. there are so many styles...

[Jimmy Page XVI]

That is what I usually do, I may play the guitar for an hour or so and take a break and on and on the cycle goes. Yet I honestly wish I would be capable of playing for, say about four hours per day. I enjoy the guitar but I lack the time I would prefer for it. I'm currently in my senior year and have A LOT of work to do with some AP classes, therefore I get less and less time to play. I may find myself playing the guitar while I watch tv, just to maintain some level of proficiency. And it may get even worse, in august I'll be going off to college; hopefully I'll get some breaks and find a good band to jam with during my stay. Hence, my recommendation is, play the guitar now! I made my mistake when I decided to take french lessons instead of music about five years ago, and now repent from that desicion...

[Seiko_Hejiro]

Eh, there are so many different ways to improve your skills, hmmm.

The best way to improve technical and mechanical gutiar skill is rigid practice for at least 2 horus a day. This translates to metrinome + charomatic scale over and over again at say 100 tempo. Which is excessively boring.

My favorite way to practice now and better things is to learn an entire album by one of my favorite artists. Learning an album can open you up to some new ideas, with chords, rhythm, song structure, melodies, etc...
It all depends on what you want to be proficient at playing. What style of music you want to learn.

Anyhow combien the two, since palying through one album generally will take about an hour, though it will depend on the amount of songs on it you like and want to play or can play rather. And mechanical exercises are boring but best if done every day for a week or two at medium speeds so that your accuracy is targetted best.

That's my uselsss edvice for this thread.