musical expresions

[xprince]

HI. I've been reading some posts here in theory section, but I don't understand all the signs. I was wodering what are 5ths, 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths ... and those marks after them like (Bb)....
And also what is II-V-I progession???
Please help me out!!!!

[chris mood]

here's what they mean, but I'm afraid it's gonna take a little research on your part to figure out how they relate to the guitar.

root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, & 13th refer to chord tones
(a typical major or minor chord is made up of 3 notes, Root, 3rd, & 5th.....any chord that consists of more then 3 notes will be notated..ex. D9)

# & b are note alterations, a sharp (#) raises the note a half step (1 fret) a flat (b) lowers the note a half step

2,5,1,....indicates what degree of the major scale a chord is built off of.

I hope this makes some sense to you, if not feel free to ask us for help, good luck.

[xprince]

Just look if I've got it right.
so if root is A then the 3rd would be C#, 5th E,7th G#, 9th B(H), 11th D and 13th F# right?

so typical major chord is (example A)

D-----2-----
A-----4-----
E-----5-----


And A9 would look like this??


B----0--
G-------
D----2--
A----4--
E----5--

[Bardsley]

Well, you're on the right trac. The A you played was an Aadd9. It's called an add9 because you put the 9 in over the top of a major triad, without adding in any note between. Normally, extensions are built of a dominant 7 chord - a major triad with a flattened 7. In the case of A, an A7 would be, A, C#, E, G. With an A9, you should put both the 7th and the 9th in. Therefore, an A9 would be soemthing like this:
E---7---
B---8---
G---6---
D---7---
This is the same for all extensions. Usually, you are supposed to add every extension below the one notated, so an A13 shouls have the b7th, 9th, 11th and 13th. The limitation is that a guitar can only play so many notes, you have to choose what ones to play. The fifth is usually the least important noe in a chord, so that can often be dropped, unless it is the melody note. Jazz players will often drop the root as well, but your band mates might look at you a little funny if you did that. The third is very important, as is the extension notated, and the 7th. Otherwise, have fun making up chord shapes. There are some common shapes though that you would be smart to learn. AN example is a 13 chord. Here is an A13:
E-------
B---7--
G---6--
D---5--
A---X--
E---5--
This has the root, third, seventh and thirteenth.
YOu could put the 9th in by flattening your pinky and playing B on the 7th fret of the E string, but generally shouldn't put a note higher than the extension (other than the seventh) written.

[Zeppelin]

the 2-5-1 progression is a simple progression in music harmony, which includes the minor 2, the dominanta which is the 5th degree of the scale, and the tonica which is the 1st degree of the scale in C this progression will be:
Dm7 G7 C
this is all based on the perfect 5ths and 4ths cycle, but i dont know exactly how

[xprince]

Thx a lot guys. This forum really rules. Just keep up like this.

[chris mood]

the cycle of 5ths lets you know what keys are closely related and share common chords. For ex; C maj a 5th up would be the key of G; & they both share the major chords C & G. C major a 5th down would be the key of F, and they both share the major chords C & F.
Knowing the cycle of 5ths is a good for songwriting, because it lets you know what keys you can modulate to smoothly, and it also lets you know what common chords you can use to pivot yourself into the new key. The cycle of 5ths however has nothing to do with chord progressions (251) or how chords are constructed.

[Zeppelin]

are you sure the 2-5-1 thing is not related to the cycle?
the cycle goes in this way: C G D A E B F#.. and so on
and the 2-5-1 progression is:
Dm G7 C
Am D7 G, and so on
the connection between all of them is that the ii is the relative minor of the previous key of the cycle (Em and G for example), and the V is the next one.

[lalimacefolle]

I remember that in the circle of fifth diagram, you have the second of the chord counterclockwise and the the fifth clockwise, once again, I might be wrong, but I know there's a circle that has that property... anyone could tell me if I 'm right or wrong?

[chris mood]

sure, you can find all kinds of correlations, but the cycle of 5ths has nothing to do with the building of chords or chord progressions. All that comes from the major scale and the overtone-series.

[Zeppelin]

im not sure if i understand you right: what is the second of the chord? you mean the second degree of the scale?

[lalimacefolle]

yes the second chord of the scale, let's take an example
C
counterclockwise: D
clockwise: G
so, Dm, G, C is the II V I for the C chord

[Zeppelin]

yeah that is how it goes, it also can be F instead of the Dm.