About Global Warming

[Eskimosik]

Hello What do you think about this? When it happens?

[elklandercc]

Of all places to start a Global Warming debate (which we've had many here before, just not by new members) you picked GT. I know its in the open discussion, but at least introduce yourself and/or talk about guitars first.

[HDJ]

I don't buy into the whole "global warming" thing....

[da_ardvark]

I don't buy into the whole "global warming" thing....

It may be warming, but there is little to no conclusive evidence that this warming is being caused by the activities of humans.

[HDJ]

It may be warming, but there is little to no conclusive evidence that this warming is being caused by the activities of humans.

Exactly my belief.....

[BrokenJera]

good i thought i was the only one who didnt believe in it. the earth its self goes through changes in climate every now and then. when the dinosaurs were alive the average temp was way hotter than it is now. also when neandertahls were the dominate homonid the temp was a lot cooler then it is now. do the action have an effect yes but not to the point that al gore shoulda got a noble.

ill add more on this later cause i need to go to the dentist

[Kevin Taylor]

It's just the natural evolution of the Earth. The same way it's been for billions of years. Humans are only a minor contribution compared to all the other factors that affect the earth.

[earthman buck]

There's this documentary called "The Great Global Warming Swindle" that I've seen bits of that gives a bunch of pretty convincing arguments against the whole thing. I've yet to see the whole thing, though.

I dunno, I think it would be stupid to ignore the whole thing completely. Obviously stuff humans are doing aren't great for the environment and will probably come back to bite us in the ass someday, but I don't believe in this "Earth will be totally flooded in 25 years" stuff.

I do think we need to quit wasting resources and come up with a new way of getting power right away - not because it's causing the earth to warm, necessarily, but rather because once we do find a new power source, we're going to need all the fossil fuels we've got to make the transition.

However, I was discussing this with my cousin one day and she made a pretty good point. She said something like, "Well, I'm still of the mindset where if you need to lie to people a little bit to get them scared enough to do something, then I think that's understandable. People are stupid and lazy and won't make any effort towards any real change unless they think the world is coming to an end."

And, you know. She's right. So while I don't think it's as big of a deal (yet) as say, Al Gore is making it out to be, I can understand why such a big deal is being made.

[Kevin Taylor]

My take on the whole thing is this:
I have friends who are environment freaks.
My old girlfriend used to sulk whenever I threw old newspapers on the fireplace... My neighbors divide all their cans, papers, bottles etc....

Blah.... I personally don't give a crap. I save up all my old paper and cardboard... frozen food containers...scraps etc.... and toss em in the fireplace.

when I make a sandwich, I use a sheet of printer paper to cover the counter.
I make the sandwich and use a towel to wipe the dirty knife.
I use the sheet of used print paper to hold the pickles or whatever and then transfer that to the table...or living room if I'm watching a movie. I use the same piece of paper to hold the pickles.
When I'm finished, I screw up the paper and thow it in th fireplace.

After a few days, I light up crap in the fireplace to warm the room (haven't used the heat yet this year)

Same thing goes for anything else in the room... Old boxes magazines...whatever. It all goes on the fireplace.

I haven't turned the central heating on at all this month.
In fact it's so warm right now I have the fan going.

[looneytunes]

good i thought i was the only one who didnt believe in it.

Careful, we might start agreeing on others things!

Let's get back to the guitar. What say you?

Has anyone checked out the Taylor "Hybrid" T5 C2? I like the Sunburst model made with Kola wood from Hawaii.
It is a sweet guitar and plays so smooth. You can hook up 2 amps. One to an acoustic guitar amp and one electric guitar amp and use both at the same time or switch from one to the other in midstream by flipping a toggle switch on the guitar.
I was quoted a price of $3,400. It will be a long time before I ever get one.
I'm going to start saving right now. I only have to get $3,395 more!

[dvenetian]

My take on the whole thing is this:
I have friends who are environment freaks.
My old girlfriend used to sulk whenever I threw old newspapers on the fireplace... My neighbors divide all their cans, papers, bottles etc....

Blah.... I personally don't give a crap. I save up all my old paper and cardboard... frozen food containers...scraps etc.... and toss em in the fireplace.

when I make a sandwich, I use a sheet of printer paper to cover the counter.
I make the sandwich and use a towel to wipe the dirty knife.
I use the sheet of used print paper to hold the pickles or whatever and then transfer that to the table...or living room if I'm watching a movie. I use the same piece of paper to hold the pickles.
When I'm finished, I screw up the paper and thow it in th fireplace.

After a few days, I light up crap in the fireplace to warm the room (haven't used the heat yet this year)

Same thing goes for anything else in the room... Old boxes magazines...whatever. It all goes on the fireplace.

I haven't turned the central heating on at all this month.
In fact it's so warm right now I have the fan going.
I beg your forgiveness...........................
It's not that I'm a Pro-Global warming advocate and I certainly don't believe that igniting a fire daily has anything to do with this topic in any way....
However, as a National Manufacturer who's raw product line derives from a process referred as "Stripped Mining", I deal with Environmental Agencies about as often as changing guitar strings. It's obvious that vehicle emissions are a standard topic of concern and with the amount of vehicles that is understood. It's the things that aren't released to the General Public that make a bigger picture. The concern from the most populated areas of the world aren't helping matters. Places like Sumgayit, Azerbaijan, with their Mercury emissions, Tianying, China, mining Lead, Dzerzinsk, Russia, chemical weapons manufacturing since the cold war era, India's chromite mining and the list goes on.. The Chernobyl temporary fix was estimated to last between 20 and 30 years. The reactor meltdown occurred in 1986. Time for another bandaid.
Is it causing Global Warming???? Who knows... Is it helping the environment, I highly doubt it...........

[BrokenJera]

the real causing of the global warming thing is the depletion of oxygen in the atmosphere. the is caused by two major things: the first is massive deforestation to make way for factory farms for cash crops like corn sugar (beats and canes) soybeans beef chicken and pork. these farms not only use the land up but the run off from these plants is toxic due to the nitrogen rich fertalizers and urine runoff.
the second is the amount of poisons and other toxins washed into our oceans. in the 40's 50's and 60's the united states france and britan tested their hydrogen fussion bombs under the pacific ocearn near the marshall and bikini atols. the amount of pesticides sprayed like ddt and other now banned chemicals will never be known.
all of these chemicals are in the ocean and killing the plankton which is responsable for making 60% to 80% of the oxygen for earth.

more oxygen=cooler temps the last major ice age the oxygen was estimated at over 20 times what it is now.


now i know this sounds like enviromentalist crap but there is a diffenence. i am a conservationist. i might never have liked to hunt but i do love to fish. i only keep the fish im planing on eating. what i see when i go to the woods isnt global warming i see trash piled up everywhere. thats what we need to address. i was taught a simple rule when i was a kid. you pack it in you pack it out. the only thing that will fix our problems is if we dont let them get anyworse.

[R. Shackleferd]

I started a thread about this (http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19741&highlight=global+warmin) quite a while back. It grew quite extensive with quite a few links and even more GT opinions...might be worth a gander. I've since moved even further into the "skeptic" category.

[Kevin Taylor]

My whole take on this is purely selfish.
I figure, I'm here on this earth and I was given no choice as to whether I wanted to be here or not.
Life is nothing but pure hell for 99% of the population.

So why the hell can't I live the life the way I want to.
I throw my jars in the garbage...I toss out cans.... I burn my food scraps...I never separate stuff for recycling....
Hell... I pay for my lifestyle.... why the hell should I follow the governments rules on how to live my life?

[Azrael]

I like this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q71cMRGXx9o&feature=related

[looneytunes]

Has anyone checked out the Taylor "Hybrid" T5 C2?

Sorry, I meant the PRS (Paul Reed Smith) T5 C2. I've been looking at so many guitars I got them mixed up. It is nice!

[looneytunes]

My whole take on this is purely selfish.
I figure, I'm here on this earth and I was given no choice as to whether I wanted to be here or not.
Life is nothing but pure hell for 99% of the population.

So why the hell can't I live the life the way I want to.
I throw my jars in the garbage...I toss out cans.... I burn my food scraps...I never separate stuff for recycling....
Hell... I pay for my lifestyle.... why the hell should I follow the governments rules on how to live my life?

I'm biting my tongue on this one. Though I agree global warming is a farce and I to do not separate my trash as well. I totally agree, Mr. Taylor, you should be allowed to live anyway you wish as long as it's within the law and not hurting anyone. I totally disgree with some things you stated as fact and some of your justifications for as you put it, 'live the way I want to'.

Man! I know you guys don't care much for my opinions and it's really hard not to jump in here, but I'm not saying anymore. Not one word more. I respect your opinion and that's all I have to say. I'm not say anything more.

Oh, what the heck!

They say the melting icebergs are causing the water level to raise. Try is:
Fill a glass full of ice to where is above the brim. Now fill the glass with water to the brim. Some of the ice will fall out because, duh, ice floats. Discard the ice that fell out. Wait for all the ice to melt and post the results. Did the water flow over the glass and onto the table (increasing the water level) or did all the water, including the melted ice, remain in the glass (decrease the water level or maintain the same water level)? Allow for the moisture that will be condensating on the outside of the glass.

Also, did you know that there is more forestry in the world now than back in the 1800's? It's true. Its just more condensed (check out any forestry website) The forestry is not spread out as much. Did you know here in the US we not only replace every tree cut for construction, but we also plant new trees not only here in the US, but in many other countries? Did you know where trees were destroyed for "Strip Mining" in Kentucky, Ohio, & Tennessee are now filled with mature healthy trees. Did you know that more trees are lost by natural causes (fire, disease, drought, etc.) than are cut for construction or for building sites?

Farmers do not clear a forest for planting. As you know farmers may cut down a few trees to increase their yield, but did you know they plant far more oxygen producing plants than those few trees could ever produce. Did you know that their crops not only feed people in the US, but also throughout the world and make very little profit for their efforts?

Did you know that every place our representatives in Washington has to go are in walking distance of the Capital Building and yet almost all drive or are driven to each of them? This includes the fantastic gym facility, that we tax payers provide for them and where some go to work out daily.

As stated before, there are nature causes for temperature changes. Our life style has little or nothing to with it. Sure there are things we can do be better stewards of this plant we call Earth, but pushing scare tactics and pressuring us into it is not the way to do it. I think even Mr. Taylor would help out, if he wasn't antagonized.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

Try to have a nice day! :)

[ren]

All I will offer is that we don't have a test planet to experiment on, so we might want to be careful. Everyone seems to be an expert these days... but how many of us have any idea beyond watching a TV show?

I think a number of the nay-sayers now just want to have a different belief from the majority. I used to know a bunch of people who thought climate change was happening / was a fact / was man-made blah while 'the establishment' was offering other explanations or flat out denial. Now the same people say it isn't happening once the prevailing view is that it is. Not levelling that at anyone here - just in general...

Regardless of my personal beliefs on climate change or government involvemment in our lives, I do find it frightening that society en masse can be persuaded so quickly and easily that 4x4 driving / failure to recycle etc are crimes against humanity.

The media is driving this thing... I've no idea what's going on, just that 'climate change' is now a justification for any action taken by anyone (in the UK it is used to explain tax changes). People will profit from it... not least the scientists who write the reports and justify their budgets.

[looneytunes]

All I will offer is that we don't have a test planet to experiment on, so we might want to be careful. Everyone seems to be an expert these days... but how many of us have any idea beyond watching a TV show?

I think a number of the nay-sayers now just want to have a different belief from the majority. I used to know a bunch of people who thought climate change was happening / was a fact / was man-made blah while 'the establishment' was offering other explanations or flat out denial. Now the same people say it isn't happening once the prevailing view is that it is. Not levelling that at anyone here - just in general...

Regardless of my personal beliefs on climate change or government involvemment in our lives, I do find it frightening that society en masse can be persuaded so quickly and easily that 4x4 driving / failure to recycle etc are crimes against humanity.

The media is driving this thing... I've no idea what's going on, just that 'climate change' is now a justification for any action taken by anyone (in the UK it is used to explain tax changes). People will profit from it... not least the scientists who write the reports and justify their budgets.

You're so correct in the fact we really don't know and that the media is behind this as many other things they are getting people in an up roar. For instance, everyone knows that smoking is bad (I'm not a smoker). Look how fast we went from everyone smoking anywhere to no smoking laws. Now it's a crime!

Although I don't personally what T.V. Now and then, but very often, this is the only source of info people get.

Good comments!

[da_ardvark]

My take on the whole thing is this:
I have friends who are environment freaks.
My old girlfriend used to sulk whenever I threw old newspapers on the fireplace... My neighbors divide all their cans, papers, bottles etc....

Blah.... I personally don't give a crap. I save up all my old paper and cardboard... frozen food containers...scraps etc.... and toss em in the fireplace.

when I make a sandwich, I use a sheet of printer paper to cover the counter.
I make the sandwich and use a towel to wipe the dirty knife.
I use the sheet of used print paper to hold the pickles or whatever and then transfer that to the table...or living room if I'm watching a movie. I use the same piece of paper to hold the pickles.
When I'm finished, I screw up the paper and thow it in th fireplace.

After a few days, I light up crap in the fireplace to warm the room (haven't used the heat yet this year)

Same thing goes for anything else in the room... Old boxes magazines...whatever. It all goes on the fireplace.

I haven't turned the central heating on at all this month.
In fact it's so warm right now I have the fan going.

Kevin. I hope you have your chimney looked at annually. Burning alot of paper tends to really build up alot of soot. This can be very dangerous and lead to you house burning down.

Just food for thought, just in case you didn't realize.

[looneytunes]

[QUOTE=da_ardvark] soot[QUOTE]

It's Creosol build up that can cause a chimmney fire and burn his house down, not soot.

I'm behind you Kevin. Do whatever you want!

[Drew77]

Ha.

How many of you are are climatologists? Really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1PPY6ElKZM

I wrote a big thing but honestly it doesn't matter. Watch the video and if you still think nothing needs to be done then your a tool. period.

[ren]

Ha.

How many of you are are climatologists? Really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1PPY6ElKZM

I wrote a big thing but honestly it doesn't matter. Watch the video and if you still think nothing needs to be done then your a tool. period.

Did the film tell me anything? It used a grid to explain how action was better than inaction regardless of the outcome but I missed the bit where all answers were revealed.

I trust you are a climatologist? :p

[HDJ]

My opinions....

There's no such thing as global warming caused by humans.....just b/c the climate is going through it's normal shift as we humans are on earth, then we humans are gonna be pointing fingers and trying to find the reason for it all, or I should say, make up a reason for it all...

Ice melting will not cause the ocean levels to rise....it's simple displacement as someone mentioned before...the only thing that melting glaciers will affect is the salinity of the oceans....

Bunch of hippies!

[hunter60]

All I will offer is that we don't have a test planet to experiment on, so we might want to be careful. Everyone seems to be an expert these days... but how many of us have any idea beyond watching a TV show?

I think a number of the nay-sayers now just want to have a different belief from the majority. I used to know a bunch of people who thought climate change was happening / was a fact / was man-made blah while 'the establishment' was offering other explanations or flat out denial. Now the same people say it isn't happening once the prevailing view is that it is. Not levelling that at anyone here - just in general...

Regardless of my personal beliefs on climate change or government involvemment in our lives, I do find it frightening that society en masse can be persuaded so quickly and easily that 4x4 driving / failure to recycle etc are crimes against humanity.

The media is driving this thing... I've no idea what's going on, just that 'climate change' is now a justification for any action taken by anyone (in the UK it is used to explain tax changes). People will profit from it... not least the scientists who write the reports and justify their budgets.


Agree. It just so happens that Global Warming is the crisis flavor of the month. I don't think that there's any question that some things are happening and we should be more thoughtful about our consumption. Limited resources on this rock, don't you know. But will Manhattan be under water in 25, 50 or 100 years? I honestly don't know. It just has that feel of a media fed frenzy.

I could be wrong. It's been known to happen. Not often, but it does happen. :D

[hunter60]

Sorry Ren, wanted to give you props for your recent comments but:

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ren again".

Next time man, next time.

[da_ardvark]

Ha.

How many of you are are climatologists? Really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1PPY6ElKZM

I wrote a big thing but honestly it doesn't matter. Watch the video and if you still think nothing needs to be done then your a tool. period.



Pfffttttttt

I have my own video

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/130122/George_Carlin_on_Global_Warming.html

[looneytunes]

Pfffttttttt

I have my own video

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/130122/George_Carlin_on_Global_Warming.html

I don't particularly care for the language, the message was great!
I other view was suggesting that economic harm has no effect on the world.
Look what 9/11 did! Look at what the price of gas is doing! Look at the shift of the middle class to poor. These people don't care about something that might happen millions of years from now. They are worried about eating today!

Also, he implied everyone get auto insurance because they want to. They get not only for economic reasons, but because they can't drive without, they can't buy a car without, and it's against the law not to have it!

Also, his grid theory could be use for religon as many other things. I do believe in God, but I don't say what is the more logical out come. If there isn't a God and you are saved the worse that can happen is you will go to Heaven. However, if you don't believe and there is a God, you will go to Hell. So, what is the most logical thing to do?

I believe we can be better stewards of nature and ourselves and our brothers, but I don't like people trying to scare me into or those few people get laws passed forcing us to abide.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

Please do have a nice day! I say that, but I can't really tell anyone what to do! :)

[Kevin Taylor]

I beg your forgiveness...........................
It's not that I'm a Pro-Global warming advocate and I certainly don't believe that igniting a fire daily has anything to do with this topic in any way....
However, as a National Manufacturer who's raw product line derives from a process referred as "Stripped Mining", I deal with Environmental Agencies about as often as changing guitar strings. It's obvious that vehicle emissions are a standard topic of concern and with the amount of vehicles that is understood. It's the things that aren't released to the General Public that make a bigger picture. The concern from the most populated areas of the world aren't helping matters. Places like Sumgayit, Azerbaijan, with their Mercury emissions, Tianying, China, mining Lead, Dzerzinsk, Russia, chemical weapons manufacturing since the cold war era, India's chromite mining and the list goes on.. The Chernobyl temporary fix was estimated to last between 20 and 30 years. The reactor meltdown occurred in 1986. Time for another bandaid.
Is it causing Global Warming???? Who knows... Is it helping the environment, I highly doubt it...........

I guess I'm of the theory that I re-use everything as much as possible and then use it to heat my room instead of tossing things out.

For instance... I get a package from UPS. I take all the packing and instructional papers and cut them up to be used as food plates.
When I make a sandwich, I grab a side of the box and a used printer paper for cleanliness and use it as a plate. I re-use the same knife (don't wash it...just wipe it on a huge bath towel hung on the regrigerator), then eat the sandwich off the printer paper. Then I toss it in the fireplace for kindling.

Basically I get several uses from just one Purolator box and a second hand printer paper.

Over the winter months, I save up all my used papers like boxes and used typing paper and then when winter gets here, I go into my storage room and start using all the left over junk to fire up the fireplace.

Like, I said.... just a couple of small boxes and a few papers can keep the room warm all night and I still haven't turned on the electric heaters in the house yet even thought the temp outside is below 32º

I also throw old food scraps, left over candles, socks and anything else that can be burned.
You'd be amazed at how warm it gets in here.

[BrokenJera]

im still waiting for california to fall into the ocean (my mom said that was all the big thing when she was a kid), y2k, armageddon, the hole in the ozone layer to burn us all to cinders, and the ufos to come and enslave us all for asteroid mining and a cheap source of food. all this science stuff is is best guess anyway.

the way i see it s__t happens. sure global warming would be bad but if we pick up after ourselves (and yes mr.t using your paper a few times then burning it is considered recycling) then in a few years when the sun cools back down (it does have cycles of activity every 11 years or so) we can all go back to talking about the rapture.(no offense to anyone but where the hell did you guys think that one up?? that one aint even close to being in the bible.)

sorry about this __ im not sure about the censors here.

[looneytunes]

no offense to anyone but where the hell did you guys think that one up?? that one aint even close to being in the bible.)

sorry about this __ im not sure about the censors here.

True the term "the Rapture" (the state of being transported from one place to another, in this case to Heaven" does not appear in the King James Version, which I read daily. I assume the Bible you are quoting from (I'm sure you study the bible, if for no other reason than to know exactly what you are talking about) obviously doesn't appear there as well. CHRISTians use the term "The Rapture" do describe the second coming of Christ; when He calls up all his followers living and dead to be with Him in Heaven. This is spoke of not only as prophecy in the Old Testament, but also in the New Testament. Review the gospels (Matthew, John, Luke, Mark) and you might want to review the Book of Acts as well. I'm sure you being such a great scholar of the Scriptures, I don't have to remind you to re-read the Book of Revelations.

I'm sure some day you will find "where in Hell" we guys thought that one up. No offense.

I really don't want to get into a big discussion of religion. Religion to me is a personal thing between God and me. I believe adults have already made up their mind as to what they want to believe and nobody but the Holy Spirit is going to change their mind no matter what anyone says. When the time comes they will change their thinking, or not.

Too many people today choose their beliefs according to their life style. They don't want to change and they don't want to feel uncomfortable around others. They think it's what each person believes. I don't care how you believe, but think about this for just a moment. Do you believe in good and evil? Do you believe in right and wrong? If so, who determines what is right and wrong? Do you decide what is right and wrong for yourself? Maybe society? Maybe the government?

If we decide for ourselves, then Jeff Dauber (spelling??) just had an eating disorder! Charles Manson just has an alterative life style! If society, then you are leaving it up to the majority, in other words, a mob of people, the averaging out of very one including the Daubers and Mansons. If government, then you are leaving it up to the same people that make those great decision that we are all so proud of.

Who determines what is right and wrong? Got any ideas? Let me help you Mr. BrokenJera. It's a three letter word that starts with a capital G.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving! By the way, who are you thanking? :)

So, what about the PRS T5 C2?

[BrokenJera]

that is a very sweet prs.

as for god i dont go to church but i do believe in god. i personally think that if god is as great as everyone says he knows what is in my heart and wont kick me out of heaven just because i dont bow to him. i do believe in heaven and hell and good and evil. i do believe the devil is evil being that we all should fear.but not for the same reasons you do. i thenk the devil is the devil because he believes that only through the absoulte subbmission to gods law should you be allowed to go to heaven. which means if you steal because you are hungry or kill in self defense you still go to hell. and that why hes the devil. would you put ted bundy in charge of the prision system? no youd put your best man on the job, the who believes in the law to the letter. and what i think makes it a bigger crime to worship the devil because there is no room for forgivness in his mind, and thats why i think hes evil because his beliefs leave no room for forgiveness and kindness.

and i have read the good book. i wasnt talking about jesus comming after the beast to save us from the antichrist. i was talking about the part where jesus comes before the beast and gives the faithful the first crack at heaves apartment market.(the return of the messiah part 1.5).

just my point of view. i hope its not offensive to anyone. but global warming offends me.

[earthman buck]

If we decide for ourselves, then Jeff Dauber (spelling??) just had an eating disorder!
Jeffrey Dahmer?

[looneytunes]

that is a very sweet prs.

as for god i dont go to church but i do believe in god. i personally think that if god is as great as everyone says he knows what is in my heart and wont kick me out of heaven just because i dont bow to him. i do believe in heaven and hell and good and evil. i do believe the devil is evil being that we all should fear.but not for the same reasons you do. i thenk the devil is the devil because he believes that only through the absoulte subbmission to gods law should you be allowed to go to heaven. which means if you steal because you are hungry or kill in self defense you still go to hell. and that why hes the devil. would you put ted bundy in charge of the prision system? no youd put your best man on the job, the who believes in the law to the letter. and what i think makes it a bigger crime to worship the devil because there is no room for forgivness in his mind, and thats why i think hes evil because his beliefs leave no room for forgiveness and kindness.

and i have read the good book. i wasnt talking about jesus comming after the beast to save us from the antichrist. i was talking about the part where jesus comes before the beast and gives the faithful the first crack at heaves apartment market.(the return of the messiah part 1.5).

just my point of view. i hope its not offensive to anyone. but global warming offends me.

Nor do I wish to offend you.

I am curious though. You stated that you do believe in God. Do you believe the Holy Scriptures were written by man, but inspired by God?

When you quoted, "i thenk the devil is the devil because he believes that only through the absoulte subbmission to gods law should you be allowed to go to heaven. which means if you steal because you are hungry or kill in self defense you still go to hell."

I am a bit confused. I'm not sure what you are trying to say, however, man's law gives us lesser pentalies for crimes commented for different reasons not God. Sin is sin whether you steal $1 or $1000, whether you kill one person or 100. It's still a sin, it is still wrong. God is a compassionate God, but He is also vengeful God. God's wrath should be feared, but His forgivness is offered to everyone no matter what they have done in the past.

We are all human beings so we are all with sin. You, me, every humaning on this planet are sinners and there is no changing that! We were born sinners and we will all die as sinners. There is no perfect human being. We are not condemned to Hell for being human (sinners), but for not accepting Jesus as our personal savior (Christianity). God certainly does know what is in your heart and He can't be fooled. There are a lot of people in Hell that had a good heart, but we must accept salvation (forgiveness) to enter the Kingdom. However, if you are truly saved, you willingly change your wicked ways and try to live according to his Word. Believing there is a God is not salvation. If you do not change your ways, I would doubt you were truly saved, but it's not up to me to judge. I will not say who is or who isn't saved. God will do the judging, and from Him you cannot hide the truth.

The only sin that God will not forgive is destroying the most perious gift of all, your life. He will not forgive the taking of your own life.

When I state "you", I am not referring to you personally Mr. BrokenJera or to anyone. I'm speaking in general. As I stated before, I really don't want to get into this religious conversation for I believe everyone has there own views, believes, etc. and there is no way of changing anyones mind. Whether political or religion. They have made up there mind and until the are confronted with the Holy Spirit, they will not change.

When I was in Vietnam there was a little saying going around, "There are no atheist in a fox hole". This is absolutely true! I beleive there was more praying going on asking God's forgiviness in Vietnam than all the churches in the world.

This is not scriptural, but my personally belief. I believe the Holy Spirit lives in side of each of us and uses our conscience to tell us what is right and what is wrong. As we continue to sin our conscience is weakened, thus the Holy Spirit stops talking to us. The only way to keep the Holy Spirit speaking to us and our conscience strong is to expose yourselves to God's Word. This means reading scripture, prayer, and congregating with like believers (going to church). Like I said it's not in the Bible, but it makes sense to me.

I'm through with this conversation. I really don't know why I started. Maybe it was the Holy Spirit!

Glad you like the PRS T5 C2. I really like it. I'm going to start saving for one, of course, by the time I get that much money together there will be something new out that probably cost a lot more.

Have a nice day! :)

[BrokenJera]

i think your a psycho brainwashed ahole looneytunes. by the time you save enough money for that prs there will be other things on the market but i doubt they will be nearly as sweet. just like id still rather have a gibson lp standard than that new robot guitar anyday.

i need to explainsome stuff here.

i dont really think your a psycho brainwashed ahole looney. i meant that there is so much belief out there that technology makes things better that theres no room for the old way.i would much rather have nothing in the way and play on my classical then jack into my pc for the most uptodate emulater software there is. the music those pure tones that all instruments bring to life is the only thing that matters right? if we cant be happy with what we have and do to bring them to life what are we spending our lives on? this who global warming thread is about those who havent found what truly makes them happy so they crusade to feel like they changed the whole world when its our heats that need the changing. ben franklin once said (im paraphrasing here) that the problem with democracy is that when the majoriy does not respect the rights of the minority the system becomes dictatorship by majority rule. im a smoker who lives in the san fransisco bay area i see this everyday.

as for the religion stuff lets just forget about it and meet up in heaven. i personally dont think that either one of us are right or wrong.

[dvenetian]

I guess I'm of the theory that I re-use everything as much as possible and then use it to heat my room instead of tossing things out.

For instance... I get a package from UPS. I take all the packing and instructional papers and cut them up to be used as food plates.
When I make a sandwich, I grab a side of the box and a used printer paper for cleanliness and use it as a plate. I re-use the same knife (don't wash it...just wipe it on a huge bath towel hung on the regrigerator), then eat the sandwich off the printer paper. Then I toss it in the fireplace for kindling.

Basically I get several uses from just one Purolator box and a second hand printer paper.

Over the winter months, I save up all my used papers like boxes and used typing paper and then when winter gets here, I go into my storage room and start using all the left over junk to fire up the fireplace.

Like, I said.... just a couple of small boxes and a few papers can keep the room warm all night and I still haven't turned on the electric heaters in the house yet even thought the temp outside is below 32º

I also throw old food scraps, left over candles, socks and anything else that can be burned.
You'd be amazed at how warm it gets in here.
After the week of hell I lived through here with the Fires in California, the sky black at Noon, raining Ashes and soot filled smoke travelling 500 miles out over the Pacific, I think you should be able to stay as warm and cozy as you see fit for the rest of your life. You could even throw an occasional UPS driver on the fire for some barbeque aroma.

[Kevin Taylor]

mmm....UPS driver.....

[looneytunes]

i think your a psycho brainwashed ahole looneytunes. by the time you save enough money for that prs there will be other things on the market but i doubt they will be nearly as sweet. just like id still rather have a gibson lp standard than that new robot guitar anyday.

i need to explainsome stuff here.

i dont really think your a psycho brainwashed ahole looney. i meant that there is so much belief out there that technology makes things better that theres no room for the old way.i would much rather have nothing in the way and play on my classical then jack into my pc for the most uptodate emulater software there is. the music those pure tones that all instruments bring to life is the only thing that matters right? if we cant be happy with what we have and do to bring them to life what are we spending our lives on? this who global warming thread is about those who havent found what truly makes them happy so they crusade to feel like they changed the whole world when its our heats that need the changing. ben franklin once said (im paraphrasing here) that the problem with democracy is that when the majoriy does not respect the rights of the minority the system becomes dictatorship by majority rule. im a smoker who lives in the san fransisco bay area i see this everyday.

as for the religion stuff lets just forget about it and meet up in heaven. i personally dont think that either one of us are right or wrong.

I am not waiting to purchase for the next version of guitar to come out on the market. I am waiting to save up enough moo-la to buy it. I merely stated that a better one or one that I like more will probably be out before I can save the money. I don't buy anything other than real estate on time. If I don't have the money now, I don't buy it.

As for the old stuff is better, that is true with many things. The old things are basic design. The new things are just attempts to improve on them and without mush success. I prefer my acoustic Martin for sound. The bass strings can't be beat, but some songs require different sounds. There is no way to play Johnny B. Goode on an acoustic. I know, Johnny B. Who? You get what I mean. And the PRS hybrid has a new and different sound and provides the electric sound with the acoustic. I really like it, but I will still probably play my Martin more.

Moving on. I am not a smoker. I used to be, but I quit years ago not because I was forced to, but because I thought it was stupid. I started around age 8 (not on a regular bases) and quit around 24-25. I'm now, let's just say old. I quit cold turkey without patches or gum or anything. I quit because I wanted to. I fought against the smoking ban. I thought the government needed to stay out of our personal lives. I also felt that if somebody smoking bothered me, I could always ask them to reframe from it (which they always did) or I could leave. I never felt we needed a law to prevent smoking in public.

If you review recent history, you will find it is not the majority not respecting the rights of minority, but just the opposite. Prayer from our schools, the Ten Commandments in the courts, abortion made legal, smoking banned, on and on. These were all brought about because of a few, the minority, not the majority.

As for the religious stuff as you put it. I believe I pretty well said the same thing in the beginning. We can only stated our opinions and neither of us is going to change the world or others mind. We weren't going to accomplish anything, but it was fun don't you think?

Have a good day friend! :)

[BrokenJera]

chuck berry wrote johnny b goode right?its a good song i think jerry lee lewis did a version and jimmy hendrix too. i dont listen to that kind of rock much but i know i owe those guys alot. jimmy hendrix is the father of heavy metal after all.

the smoking ban around where i live has reached paranoia and consperacy heights. you cant smoke in your car with a child in there you cant smoke in any public places, and the epa declared ciggerettte smoke a type 4 enviromental hazard so you cant even smoke in your home. i have always smoked out side cause i dont want that stuff in my guitar or amp or tv or computer. but i think they should let the owners of certain types of bussiness decide if they want to allow smoking for them selves.

our schools dont even have enough money to teach kids the basics standards in reading writing math history and science, so to me teaching prayer is not the best plan right now. the ten command ment we some of the oldest laws (only hammerobi beat them SP?) concerning the laws essental for the survival of a civiliation i think its madness not to have them in court.

and the religion is always fun to debate with someone who has an open mind and isnt afraid to atleast consider some one else point of view.

[looneytunes]

chuck berry wrote johnny b goode right?its a good song i think jerry lee lewis did a version and jimmy hendrix too. i dont listen to that kind of rock much but i know i owe those guys alot. jimmy hendrix is the father of heavy metal after all.

the smoking ban around where i live has reached paranoia and consperacy heights. you cant smoke in your car with a child in there you cant smoke in any public places, and the epa declared ciggerettte smoke a type 4 enviromental hazard so you cant even smoke in your home. i have always smoked out side cause i dont want that stuff in my guitar or amp or tv or computer. but i think they should let the owners of certain types of bussiness decide if they want to allow smoking for them selves.

our schools dont even have enough money to teach kids the basics standards in reading writing math history and science, so to me teaching prayer is not the best plan right now. the ten command ment we some of the oldest laws (only hammerobi beat them SP?) concerning the laws essental for the survival of a civiliation i think its madness not to have them in court.

and the religion is always fun to debate with someone who has an open mind and isnt afraid to atleast consider some one else point of view.

Yes, Chuck Berry wrote the lyrics and performed Johnny B. Goode. It's a classic. You really should learn to play it. It's fun and pretty simple and for some reason, people get very excited when they hear it. But, it doesn't sound right unless you are playing in with an electric guitar with the volume up.

The smoking ban is just one of stupid things the minority has instilled on the majority. And it is one of the most ridiculous, expensive and waste of our official’s time. Again I am not a smoker, but I don’t think the government needs to get involved in our personal lives. If you don’t like smoking in that restaurant go to one that doesn’t allow it. Businesses should be able to run the way the owners wish. I realize there are necessary laws that are there to protect the people. This is not one of them.

You are wrong about not having enough money to run the schools. What we spend per year per student ($20,000 +) is almost 4 times the money spent per student per year in private schools ($3,000). And the students from private schools test out by far higher than those in public schools (this is based upon averages).The money is wasted as it is with anything the government gets involved with. We spend more and educated less. Name one thing, other than the military, that has proven to be successful that the government has control. Even the Postal Service is a disaster!

You said that religion shouldn’t be taught in our schools. Your reasoning was financial. Others feel the same way, but they feel Christianity shouldn’t be taught in schools. I am not saying any religion should be talk in schools, but right and wrong should be! However, I don’t think the government should be the one to determine what is right and wrong. The parents should have the means to choose which school their children should attend. If we are not going to teach our children right from wrong in the our schools, at home, and they don’t attend any church, and Hollywood and the media certainly don’t teach it, so where do they our kids learn what is right and what is wrong? After they are arrested?

You are correct that the Ten Commandments are the oldest laws recorded. These are the laws (The Laws of Moses) that our court system was based. As for a matter of history, if not for any other reason, the Ten Commandments should proudly be posted in every courthouse, courthouse lawn, school, and very public facility in the US. Here again a small minority of people are having our history, the foundation of our land, removed from the courts, history books, currency, schools, libraries, everywhere until there is no sign of God or our heritage left.

God is being removed as to not offend anyone. They are offending me! If they are so offended, then why stay or even come to such a terrible place? Because the United States of America is the greatest country in the world and everyone wants to come here to fulfill there hopes and dreams. The United States is the land of opportunity. That is fine. Let them come (legally) and bring their heritage with them, but don’t take away ours! Check out www.benstein.com

You mentioned you like to debate religion. Well, I don’t! Everyone has their own opinion on politics and religion and there is no changing anybody’s mind. It’s a useless cause. As I said before; until someone is confronted with a spiritual experience, their thoughts will not change.

Thanks! It was sort of fun, but a waste of time.

[Kevin Taylor]

Well..I have to disagree with you on the smoking ban.
I got hooked on nicotine by the time I was 5 years old because my mother would smoke around me all day long. Today, that would be considered child abuse.

When I think back..I used to smoke a pack a day about 20 years ago, but even then I couldn't handle the amount of smoke that was drifting around in public places.
You'd go into a store and the clerks would be smoking at the counter..in college, students smoked in class...even in doctors offices you had to sit in a haze of smoke.
When I was working retail, we used to have customers who'd smoke stinky cigars at the counter and butt them out on the floor of the store. When I was out of work and had to go to UIC, you could hardly see the other side of the room because every second person was smoking. And you had no choice but to go there if you wanted unemployment insurance. I used to think how horrible it must have been for pregnant women or people with health problems to be forced to sit in that haze of smoke for 3 hours.

I'm glad a smoking ban has been instituted now. The only thing that bothers me now is how disguntingly dirty and inconsiderate smokers still insist on being...throwing their used butts outside the doors of all the establishments and blowing smoke in peoples faces as they walk by them at the front doors.

[looneytunes]

Well..I have to disagree with you on the smoking ban.
I got hooked on nicotine by the time I was 5 years old because my mother would smoke around me all day long. Today, that would be considered child abuse.

When I think back..I used to smoke a pack a day about 20 years ago, but even then I couldn't handle the amount of smoke that was drifting around in public places.
You'd go into a store and the clerks would be smoking at the counter..in college, students smoked in class...even in doctors offices you had to sit in a haze of smoke.
When I was working retail, we used to have customers who'd smoke stinky cigars at the counter and butt them out on the floor of the store. When I was out of work and had to go to UIC, you could hardly see the other side of the room because every second person was smoking. And you had no choice but to go there if you wanted unemployment insurance. I used to think how horrible it must have been for pregnant women or people with health problems to be forced to sit in that haze of smoke for 3 hours.

I'm glad a smoking ban has been instituted now. The only thing that bothers me now is how disguntingly dirty and inconsiderate smokers still insist on being...throwing their used butts outside the doors of all the establishments and blowing smoke in peoples faces as they walk by them at the front doors.

Oh, I understand what you are saying and I'm not saying it's not better for everyone, but don't you think it should be up to the owners of these establishments to decide how they want to run their businesses? If they allow smoking or smoking in certain areas, don't you think if smoking bothers anyone, they can decide for themselves whether or not to partonize that establishment. I agree inside government buildings and public buildings smoking should be banned. I do not agree that privately owned businesses should be banned. It's just another example of a minority controlling the majority and something else for the government to waste our money and police. With every law preventing something also requires another department to police and enforce it. The government continues to grow and our rights slowly disappear. It's ridiculous.

Here the smoking ban was passed only because of trickery. If you were for the ban you had to vote "No". If you were against the ban, you voted "Yes". People thought they were voting against the ban were actually voting for it. This is fact!

I quit smoking many years ago so the ban did not effect me, but it bothers me knowing the government is taking away more freedom of it's people. Small, yes, but still we lost a little bit of our freedom. How much freedom are you willing to give up to breath a little easier or to feel a little bit safer? What the next freedom are you willing to give up in the name of pleasing the minority? Eating fatty foods? Driving SUVs? Were leather? Hunting & fishing? What?

[BrokenJera]

and for my next trick im going to show you how all this ties into the global warming argument.

the government and peopple who want to get elceted create these hot button issues then the media picks up on them and rams them down our throats until were just scared enough not to watch our rights and our money slip away, 10 years ago it was smoking and D.A.R.E ,40 years ago it was a russian icmb, yesterday it was terrorism and global warming, in an hour its going to be health care and schools. i personally dont believe there was going to be another terror attack after 9/11 on U.S. soil. i didnt the math on that little terror plot, $200,000 per man x 20 men= $4,000,000. finding 20 more men who would go to the U.S. and not try to become americans is not going to be easy even when god is concerned. but thats my personal opinion. but we now have black laws ineffect (the government can get sealed arrest warrents) the fisa courts are back in sesseion and now the nsa and cia have presidental clearence to operate on american soil.

so how does all this tie into global warming?? well al gore didnt mention it when he ran for president, so what does that say? that says to me that this is a tactic used to pull people aged 18 to 40 to the far left to try and win over votes through b.s. just like the terrorism scares and the christian rights campaign to bring god back to public light (i mean this form the highly visible presidental coattails point of view) are an effort to bring casual voters into the far right through fear of both bin laden and god. (no offense to looney here id be a republican if theyd find some one who wasnt a moron. i did a lot of reading and if they went back to a goldwater style theyd have my vote).

[looneytunes]

i personally dont believe there was going to be another terror attack after 9/11 on U.S. soil. i didnt the math on that little terror plot, $200,000 per man x 20 men= $4,000,000. finding 20 more men who would go to the U.S. and not try to become americans is not going to be easy even when god is concerned. but thats my personal opinion.

Did you expect the first one? I am not trying to spread fear, but it will happen again and it will put the US back into the Stone Age. You can bet on it! Why do you think the price of gas is so high? Shortage of oil? No! High cost of refining? No! To finance the war it Iraq, terror in the world, and to destroy the US. Yes!