SHALL WE STAND ALREADY?!

[MorseRulez]

i sure would like to see the media give the bio-threat deal a rest! seems to me they are scaring the country more than the terrorists have! sure, it's a bad thing, but guess what. I'M A PROUD AMERICAN AND NOTHING THAT GETS DONE BY THE PUNKASS TERRORIST'S IS GONNA SCARE ME. I GO ABOUT MY BUSINESS AS NOTHING EVER HAPPENED, AND IF I GET EXPOSED TO SOME BIO-BIN LADEN PLOY, SO BE IT. I'LL STILL SAY GOD BLESS THE USA, AND PRESIDENT BUSH RULES! AMERICA ROCKS! SO COME ON FELLOW AMERICANS, LETS STAND TALL, UNMOVED, STAND WITH OUR PRESIDENT AND MILITARY, AND BE SOLID AS EVERY AMERICAN SHOULD BE!

[Edited by educatedfilm on 10-18-2001 at 01:22 PM]

[educatedfilm]

hmmm... I agree about the media doing more harm than good (but that's never stoped them before)... I'm not an american though...
Can i ask why should Americans suppourt the military? What's bombing a country that's so poor the targets cost less than the bombs going to achieve? ... btw I've edited a swear word out...

[skee1]

Originally posted by educatedfilm
hmmm... I agree about the media doing more harm than good (but that's never stoped them before)... I'm not an american though...
Can i ask why should Americans suppourt the military? What's bombing a country that's so poor the targets cost less than the bombs going to achieve? ... btw I've edited a swear word out...
DUH
edutakemycountryigiveup!
Who do you support?Do you support the UKs Military?
you can edit all you want i don't give a f###.
I support my country plus the Military.
That because i'm an American and proud of it,
just like the the post starter.....................
Really i can't tell you what i would like to,
tell you because you would just change my words .
Mark
God Bless America
P:S Really your reply was not worth even answering,
i must feel bad today about all the people that died in,
NYC .....................Sorry Guys

[Christoph]

Skee! I was wondering when you would show up. You've been missing all sorts of bitter political debate.

Ed, Americans support the military because they defend our nation and put their lives on the line for the sake of preserving freedom. I would be proud to serve in the military if I was ever called up, and I support the president in doing whatever it takes.

And about the bombing of Afganistan - in case you haven't heard, that's where the terrorists were trained and were based. We have to destoy their ability to train and prepare for future terrorist actions.

[Raskolnikov]

I support the bombing of military targets- and that seems to be what our military is targeting. However, if we started carpet bombing Kabul or any other city, I'd be in the streets protesting... on the weekends...
damn job.

[chris mood]

That was a bold reply you made about serving proudly in the military if you were called upon. That's my problem with a lot of these people who post threads about pro-war, they throw a lot of strong words around, but when push comes to shove would they pick up a gun, leave there friends and family to travel to a strange land to fight a hidden enemy, or would they just cry Vietnam? I hear a lot of strong talk about what we should do, but I don't hear anyone talking about enlisting.

[educatedfilm]

heheheheh... sorry Mark i shouldn't find it funny... Calm down!! LOL... I'm a "concienes objector" if you will, and no I dont suppourt the British military, not just because i feel sorry for the afgans, but because we've had a 25 year problem with terrorism, yes the northern Irland situation, and the negotaitions that so many had worked so hard for was dropped and wrapped up at a moments notice, to go to war for another counrty!!
My job is to keep the materail acceptable, (ie less bad langauge)... I've already said before I wont touch people's post unless there's bad langauge or something that's there just to upset poeple (eg rasicts comments)...
Feel free to say what you want, I'm not going to edit your oppinions..
I agree with chris and Rask, but the fact is it costs less money to drop food than bombs... It only takes around 20 days for someone (who's already well nurished) to die of starvation, and with winter around the corned it's even less, and there is no rush now for military action, but still they've refused to stop bombing to let food in before the roads become impassable by winter...

[MorseRulez]

you better believe i'd go also, in a heartbeat. i'm sick of america-bashing. {they,d probably call me last, as i am getting to be what the military would consider an old fart, i'm 38. anyhow......i'd still go!}

when i got home from work on sept. 11 and seen on tv the sickening sight we all seen, for the first day or so, i was in shock. after that and every moment since, i've been in a increasing rage thats about to melt me down! adding fuel to my inner fire, would be the media seeming (unknowingly i hope) to add to the fear thats paralyzing alot of americans, brits, etc. I'M SICK OF IT! i work at a campus that is loaded with foreign students and we could be hit with an attack as easily as the next place, but i have not, I REPEAT, HAVE NOT, and will not, change my way of life, work, etc. one iota! especially for a terrorist sucker punch. there's been 3 or 4 anthrax hoaxes on the campus, and i can safely say, I'M NOT INTIMIDATED! i'm just gonna hold faith that good will win in the end. GOD BLESS THE USA!
P.S. i am not one of the people that go around harrassing arab-americans. just wanted to make that clear. theres some of that happening at job area (between students), and thats sad!

[MorseRulez]

Originally posted by educatedfilm
hmmm... I agree about the media doing more harm than good (but that's never stoped them before)... I'm not an american though...
Can i ask why should Americans suppourt the military? What's bombing a country that's so poor the targets cost less than the bombs going to achieve? ... btw I've edited a swear word out...

christoph said as well as it can be said. my view exactly.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by chris mood
. . . but when push comes to shove would they pick up a gun, leave there friends and family to travel to a strange land to fight a hidden enemy, or would they just cry Vietnam?

Vietnam was a stupid war. You'll get no argument from me about that.

I used to joke that if they ever called up the draft I would go off to Canada or the Caribe, but that was before I saw those two towers come crashing down. I can say with all honesty that I would go and fight if they called me up.


Originally posted by MorseRulez
P.S. i am not one of the people that go around harrassing arab-americans. just wanted to make that clear.

I know what you're saying. I have two arab-born friends and have known several others. They are perfectly reasonable people and were just as horrified as everyone else with what happened. If you've seen the pictures of the hijackers you'll see that a lot of them looked liked perfectly well-adjusted citizens, so there's no use stereotyping and ostracizing the traditional-looking Arabs.

[skee1]

yo Christoph
I think you covered everything real well !
Now about Vietnam what a joke! The war that should,nt,
have ever happened.
The one's that got screwed in that war was the (VETS)
Thier still getting screwed today.


Mark
The bad thing about the afgan war is you still also,
have a war going on here in the usa also!(bio)
And who knows what else............
I would say the only thing we have to fear is,
(Fear its self)<-great saying can't remember who said,
it....................?

I will never forget sept 11 2001 (God Bless America)





[Edited by skee1 on 10-19-2001 at 04:43 PM]

[chris mood]

Martin Luther King

[educatedfilm]

I think the whole bio think is psychological, cos lets face it the number of poeple who've been hurt by it (one person has died, and a 8 have developed symptoms) is less than the number of people who've died in road accidents for example... There is more of psychological aspect to it, than an actaul physical disease, as it's a new threat to people and they're not told the facts...
I dont understand the panic, anthrax is a bacterium and so can be treated by anti-biotics, isn't very contagous (cannot be passed from human to human), and there is a vaccine if the whole thing gets bigger..(the disease is very old, it not something new, it used to be called "wool sorters disease" cos poeple who used to work with sheep got it from them)..
If small pox or some viral disease was used i think i would be the first to worry, cos you cant do anything about a virus when it hits, you can only give speeded up vaccines to try to train the bodies immune system before the illness becomes full blown (that's what they do for rabies anyway), and the majority of the population hasn't been vacinated (as the disease was irradicated back in the late seventies), so you can kiss good ol' herd immunity good bye..

I think you guys should know, I may disagree with what's going on and what your saying, in the end we both want to see the poeple who did this brought to justice (by a fair trail)

[twobone]

I originally came to this sight to get a little insight into music theory, but I now find myself politically aroused. First off, let me say, in my opinion of course, that the media has helped to shape society into what it has become today. While I feel we need to be informed, I feel like you have to be selective about the information you let your brain absorb. There is entirely too much crap and propoganda to sift through for the weak minded...it's almost a form of brain-washing. Secondly, I served in the Army as a AH-64 Apache helicopter mechanic. ALthough I was trained for combat basics, I fortunately never had to be put into a situation where I had to kill or be killed. I never want to be in that situation. I understand the mentality of defending our homelands our liberties...but I also understand the implications of war. For those of us fortunate enough to be here with roofs over our head, food on our tables and readily available medical care for ourselves and our loved ones, we should be grateful. Most of us here have never had the threat of a foreign country shutting down our economy, strangling our food supply and killing our friends and families. This is not just about terrorism...it's about control. The US has seen this coming for a long time, we've just been complacent and blind to the possibilites. Read about the fall of Egypt and Rome...no country or empire is ever so solid that it cannot crumble. And what should not be overlooked, is that some of the greatest empires were ruined from within. So...that's my thought. As worthless as it may be to some. Look for truths...don't buy into everything the media has to say

[Raskolnikov]

Excellent first post. Welcome to the site by the way.

[skee1]

Welcome twobone


I have to agree with every thing you said.
Great Post............................


Mark

P:s Ed i don't buy the scare crap.(bio-media)
Thier over doing it on the news thats whats ,
scaring alot of people....................
They were warned a while back that all this was,
coming to America.

[MorseRulez]

Originally posted by twobone
I originally came to this sight to get a little insight into music theory, but I now find myself politically aroused. First off, let me say, in my opinion of course, that the media has helped to shape society into what it has become today. While I feel we need to be informed, I feel like you have to be selective about the information you let your brain absorb. There is entirely too much crap and propoganda to sift through for the weak minded...it's almost a form of brain-washing. Secondly, I served in the Army as a AH-64 Apache helicopter mechanic. ALthough I was trained for combat basics, I fortunately never had to be put into a situation where I had to kill or be killed. I never want to be in that situation. I understand the mentality of defending our homelands our liberties...but I also understand the implications of war. For those of us fortunate enough to be here with roofs over our head, food on our tables and readily available medical care for ourselves and our loved ones, we should be grateful. Most of us here have never had the threat of a foreign country shutting down our economy, strangling our food supply and killing our friends and families. This is not just about terrorism...it's about control. The US has seen this coming for a long time, we've just been complacent and blind to the possibilites. Read about the fall of Egypt and Rome...no country or empire is ever so solid that it cannot crumble. And what should not be overlooked, is that some of the greatest empires were ruined from within. So...that's my thought. As worthless as it may be to some. Look for truths...don't buy into everything the media has to say

buying into close to nothing the media has to say, sounds a little better. as far as empires crumbling, here's one to sort out. kinda worrisome! (revelation ch. 18). is this us (USA)? the similarities are bone-chilling! the one thing i do not like about our country, is that it seems the political powers thru the years have done all that they can to boot GOD out. the end result could just be that without GOD, we are vulnerable to it all.

[MorseRulez]

oh yeah, by the way. i just read on yahoo news, where another person is very ill with inhaled anthrax. so just watch the friggin media run wild with that. (no disrespect to the sick person).

[Christoph]

Originally posted by twobone
First off, let me say, in my opinion of course, that the media has helped to shape society into what it has become today. While I feel we need to be informed, I feel like you have to be selective about the information you let your brain absorb.

Yes, society has been greatly shaped by the media, but what we most have to thank for the current state of affairs is the education system. When you want to attack a country there is no more effective way to do so than through the children. Through our "enlightened", liberal education system we have been turning out brainwashed people since the late 1960's, totally dependent on what the media and their professors tell them. And who are the media and their professors? Communists, socialists, and extremists who all hate America and the west and the freedoms that we enjoy.


Originally posted by twobone
The US has seen this coming for a long time, we've just been complacent and blind to the possibilites. Read about the fall of Egypt and Rome...no country or empire is ever so solid that it cannot crumble. And what should not be overlooked, is that some of the greatest empires were ruined from within.

Yes, the cracks are there, but it is not too late yet.

Everything comes to an end, and every empire eventually falls. The Roman Empire was around for over a thousand years, and the British Empire came and went in the blink of an eye. They both fell in the same way, the corruption of their citizens and their leaders. The US has the most powerful military that the world has ever seen, and no army would dare attack us directly (hence we have terrorism). It is from the inside, the kooks at Berkley, Harvard, and the media, that we shall fall. As it has always been, they use their own freedoms to destroy freedom and dishonor the memory of those lost to protect it.

[educatedfilm]

I'm glad to hear that poeple aren't giving into the herd metality, and do see that the news to the media is a buisness not a duty, so they may have intrests in "selecting" and repeating certain facts...

Christoph: What's wrong with socialism? I mean communism is a bit extereme, and all out capatilism (where, as we saw before, you can by anything even a baby off the net) is extreme... Don't you think a reasonable middle ground is needed?, cos the poor guy who earns less than $1 a day hasn't got a chance against a Trilion dollar company like microsoft... What's wrong with a libral education?

Nice of you to join us twobone... welcome...

[twobone]

First off, thank you all for the warm welcome. It's nice to find like-minded individuals who aren't so brain-washed by all the "American Glory" hype. Now, don't get me wrong when I use that terminology. I like the country I live in. Why do I use the word "like", you may ask, and not "love", as so many devout patriots use these days. Because I'm more attached to the idea that happiness is a state of mind...not a state of location. Meaning, if I were born and raised in Budapest, I may be just as happy, maybe more so. Now, someone coming to this country from a more oppressive country may make the argument that I, being born in a "free" country wouldn't know what it's like to have to battle for freedoms and liberties, or even simple neccesities that we take for granted here, and they would be absolutely correct. But, as I mentioned earlier, true happiness is a state of mind and spirit. Just ask Joe Blow millionare, who to every person looking at him through the other side of the glass, thinks he has the American Dream in the palm of his hand...why did he just blow his brains out in the garage of his 1.5 million dollar estate? I'll tell you why. Because there is not one material thing on this planet that can fill the void in the human soul. No amount of money, power, women, drugs, or whatever is going to make an empty man feel complete. These are distractions to the real matter at hand...making the spiritual connection that awakens the mind. Instead of teaching this to our children, they're taught to work hard and strive for nothing but success, and never let life slow you down. Then the next thing they know, they've been through college, got that executive position they've been working around the clock for, they've got the house they've been wanting, driving a nice car, like the one their neighbor bought two weeks before, and everything looks great...on the outside. On the inside...the marriage is in shambles, the drinking is getting more and more frequent because the family and the work pressure's finally starting to take it's toll, the oldest child is starting to do drugs, and the youngest is experiencing signs of emotional trauma because of what's happening in the home. Everything's spinning out of control. Then comes the divorce, the termination from the job because of the constant decline of performance, the oldest kid is in rehab and the youngest is going to live with the other parent. Now they're alone one night in the house that's being forclosed on and all of a sudden it hits them...they lived so fast and so hard to get it "all"...they forgot to experience life along the way. And in what seemed to be an instant of time, "all" of it had been taken away. They forgot about the wife or husband, they forgot about the kids, they forgot all about the important things in life. I believe that most of the time the important things are missed because they're never really taught. Children are taught to be productive, not intuitive. Aside from school, what do they have occupying a majority of their time?..TV. All kids see on TV is how beautiful you should be, or how you should live like this or that...sex, violence, and any other form of crap you can think of. Sure, there are educational programs, but let's face it...leave a child alone to decide whether to watch the Crocodile Hunter or Yo MTV Raps and see which one they spend time with. I personally have grown to despise TV, or the "brain receptacle" as I prefer to call it. Mindless activity that eats away at the very essence of human creativity. Another distraction from life.

[Raskolnikov]

News Radio was cool though.

I pretty much have to agree with you. There's all kinds of stress out there, from family/lifestyle pressures to wondering where your next meal is going to come from and if your next step will be on top of an 19 year old Russian mine. The problem is that when people feel pressure and stress, they look to an external source to blame.

[MorseRulez]

Originally posted by twobone
First off, thank you all for the warm welcome. It's nice to find like-minded individuals who aren't so brain-washed by all the "American Glory" hype. Now, don't get me wrong when I use that terminology. I like the country I live in. Why do I use the word "like", you may ask, and not "love", as so many devout patriots use these days. Because I'm more attached to the idea that happiness is a state of mind...not a state of location. Meaning, if I were born and raised in Budapest, I may be just as happy, maybe more so. Now, someone coming to this country from a more oppressive country may make the argument that I, being born in a "free" country wouldn't know what it's like to have to battle for freedoms and liberties, or even simple neccesities that we take for granted here, and they would be absolutely correct. But, as I mentioned earlier, true happiness is a state of mind and spirit. Just ask Joe Blow millionare, who to every person looking at him through the other side of the glass, thinks he has the American Dream in the palm of his hand...why did he just blow his brains out in the garage of his 1.5 million dollar estate? I'll tell you why. Because there is not one material thing on this planet that can fill the void in the human soul. No amount of money, power, women, drugs, or whatever is going to make an empty man feel complete. These are distractions to the real matter at hand...making the spiritual connection that awakens the mind. Instead of teaching this to our children, they're taught to work hard and strive for nothing but success, and never let life slow you down. Then the next thing they know, they've been through college, got that executive position they've been working around the clock for, they've got the house they've been wanting, driving a nice car, like the one their neighbor bought two weeks before, and everything looks great...on the outside. On the inside...the marriage is in shambles, the drinking is getting more and more frequent because the family and the work pressure's finally starting to take it's toll, the oldest child is starting to do drugs, and the youngest is experiencing signs of emotional trauma because of what's happening in the home. Everything's spinning out of control. Then comes the divorce, the termination from the job because of the constant decline of performance, the oldest kid is in rehab and the youngest is going to live with the other parent. Now they're alone one night in the house that's being forclosed on and all of a sudden it hits them...they lived so fast and so hard to get it "all"...they forgot to experience life along the way. And in what seemed to be an instant of time, "all" of it had been taken away. They forgot about the wife or husband, they forgot about the kids, they forgot all about the important things in life. I believe that most of the time the important things are missed because they're never really taught. Children are taught to be productive, not intuitive. Aside from school, what do they have occupying a majority of their time?..TV. All kids see on TV is how beautiful you should be, or how you should live like this or that...sex, violence, and any other form of crap you can think of. Sure, there are educational programs, but let's face it...leave a child alone to decide whether to watch the Crocodile Hunter or Yo MTV Raps and see which one they spend time with. I personally have grown to despise TV, or the "brain receptacle" as I prefer to call it. Mindless activity that eats away at the very essence of human creativity. Another distraction from life.

i believe it boils down to this, it's a sign of the times.

[twobone]

I agree...it's a sign of something. Maybe Plato was right...maybe we need philosopher rulers. People who govern on principles of moral being...but then again, who would determine the basis of those morals...now we're skirting around religion...I'm not touching that one.

[chris mood]

I like the way you think twobone.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by educatedfilm (Ali)
What's wrong with socialism?

Nothing is wrong with socialism. In any corrupt society socialism is necessary in order to maintain order and reduce the disparity between the rich and the poor. This is why the west has slowly been sliding into it for the last 50 years.

Imagine a group of people living in shacks right across the street from a group of people with nice houses and sports cars. (this is a big problem in Latin America) The people on the rich side of the street come driving up in their $60,000 cars and disappear behind their gates and armed guards. Now what do the people on the poor side of the street feel? Hatred and jealousy.

In a society like this, a strong government and socialistic laws are required to make sure that the poor don't become too poor. The government could care less about helping the people out of their poverty. The government just wants to make sure that they are complacent and have enough to exist on. Because what happens if they don't? Revolution, of course.

Now in a society that has honest, moral, caring citizens, the guy that has the nice house and cars would look across the street at the poor and think, "Gosh, this isn't right. I should really go over there and help him." He would do whatever it took to help the other guy out, and nobody would need a strong government or socialsim. Capitalism would work just fine.

So how did we get to where we are now? The education system. Just like Mr. Twobone says, we're raised and taught to work hard for all our material things and not to give a rip about the next guy as long as we get ahead. As I said before, if you want to destroy a nation, you do it through the children. If you take away the moral basis for education, eventually no governement will be able to protect us from ourselves.

[educatedfilm]

Twobone: i with you there...
Christoph: We're agreed (yeah i know... it's hard to believe)... I'm just surprised that so many americans see socailism as being "unamerican"... I'm no socailist... I dont know what i am... besides short...

[Bardsley]

Ed, I like your post. A great qoute from Dylan: "Do I have any important philosophy for the world? Are you kidding? The world don't need me. Christ, I'm only five feet ten." I think capitalism is ambiguous enough in its ideologies that it creates both good and bad. One of the fundamental priciples behind capitalism is that everybody, from any class, has the oppurtunity to become wealthy. If you compare capitalism to the feudal systems that came before its beginnings, this is true to a degree. Unlike a feudal system, where people were born into wealth, and there was no upwards mobility of peasants, capitalism allows anybody to get a job, earn money, and become wealthy. However, what this ignores is that people still do not have equal oppurtunity to earn money. What I think a government in a capitalist society is responsible for is to see that as many people as possible do have this chance, that people are not born into poverty. The other problem is that when people do earn money, they feel that they deserve it because they worked hard. This seems fair enough, but it creates a feeling that if other people are not wealthy, it is because they didn't work hard enough. To compound this, people seem to think that just because they have the right to keep all the money they earn, that it is necessarily the right thing to do. People confusing rights with what is in the public interest is a big problem, as seen in litigation cases. I may have the right to sue someone, but does it mean that I should? Bill Gates (who is relatively philanthropic) does have a right to keep all of his 128 billion dollars, but is it serving the community that he do so? Just my little thoughts, I hope I don't come across as to confrontational, I am merely ruminating.

[Joseph]

A lot of us have become terrorized with the recent case of Anthrax that's spreading across this country. It's very scary to not only have to fear for our safety, but for the air we breathe. It's a nightmare, and it keeps getting worse, not because of this disease, but because as American's we have been mislead since this case has spread.

I can understand the intentions of authorities (at least to a certain extent) and some can understand why they refuse to release too much information too soon, because they don't want to see a panic attack across this country. They don't want to give people something to worry about until everything is confirmed. However, treating the American public like children is not the surest way to handle this situation. But doing so, they are admitting that they don't have strong confidence in the majority of citizens in this country.

Public-health bureaucrats have grown smugly accustomed to telling us what we should think instead of what we should know. We have our families to worry about, as we wait patiently glued to our television sets, we want answers, and most importantly, we want the truth. Secretary Thompson stated emphatically that "there is no evidence of terrorism," when news broke about the Florida man who had contracted the first case of inhalation anthrax in 25 years. However, he did not mention that the victim lived about a mile from an air strip where terrorist hijacker Mohammed Atta rented planes or that several of Atta's fellow hijackers also visited and asked questions at a crop-dusting business in Belle Glade, Fla., 40 miles from his home in Lantana.

For some people it's understandable that authorities feel that it's important not to take too many risks, or to toy with the emotions of American citizens. But when our health is concerned, they should tell us the information exactly how it is when they receive it. As American citizens we should be given the choice of whether or not it's necessary to move half way across the country, and we should be given the chance to gather enough information as possible. The prescription for panic prevention lies in letting us judge the risk and what to do about it for ourselves. Truth is always the most effective antidote to fear.

Now the FBI is investigating the Florida cases, and other case around the country. It has taken a long time for everything to come full circle, and its a shame that these acts of terrorism have slipped under the cracks. As American citizens, it's not our job to continuously blame others for what has transpired, however it's very important for us to open our eyes, and recognize what we are dealing with in this world. Sometimes the truth is blind, and we have to find a way to work around that, showing that we are fully responsible to view life in a realistic nature, because at this point we have no choice. It's a long a winding process in regaining our freedom in this country, and we must keep our heads up as we continuously search for answers!

-Joseph

[MorseRulez]

Originally posted by Joseph
A lot of us have become terrorized with the recent case of Anthrax that's spreading across this country. It's very scary to not only have to fear for our safety, but for the air we breathe. It's a nightmare, and it keeps getting worse, not because of this disease, but because as American's we have been mislead since this case has spread.

I can understand the intentions of authorities (at least to a certain extent) and some can understand why they refuse to release too much information too soon, because they don't want to see a panic attack across this country. They don't want to give people something to worry about until everything is confirmed. However, treating the American public like children is not the surest way to handle this situation. But doing so, they are admitting that they don't have strong confidence in the majority of citizens in this country.

Public-health bureaucrats have grown smugly accustomed to telling us what we should think instead of what we should know. We have our families to worry about, as we wait patiently glued to our television sets, we want answers, and most importantly, we want the truth. Secretary Thompson stated emphatically that "there is no evidence of terrorism," when news broke about the Florida man who had contracted the first case of inhalation anthrax in 25 years. However, he did not mention that the victim lived about a mile from an air strip where terrorist hijacker Mohammed Atta rented planes or that several of Atta's fellow hijackers also visited and asked questions at a crop-dusting business in Belle Glade, Fla., 40 miles from his home in Lantana.

For some people it's understandable that authorities feel that it's important not to take too many risks, or to toy with the emotions of American citizens. But when our health is concerned, they should tell us the information exactly how it is when they receive it. As American citizens we should be given the choice of whether or not it's necessary to move half way across the country, and we should be given the chance to gather enough information as possible. The prescription for panic prevention lies in letting us judge the risk and what to do about it for ourselves. Truth is always the most effective antidote to fear.

Now the FBI is investigating the Florida cases, and other case around the country. It has taken a long time for everything to come full circle, and its a shame that these acts of terrorism have slipped under the cracks. As American citizens, it's not our job to continuously blame others for what has transpired, however it's very important for us to open our eyes, and recognize what we are dealing with in this world. Sometimes the truth is blind, and we have to find a way to work around that, showing that we are fully responsible to view life in a realistic nature, because at this point we have no choice. It's a long a winding process in regaining our freedom in this country, and we must keep our heads up as we continuously search for answers!

-Joseph

although you have many great points, i'd like to say one thing. i am still FREE! those bastards are gonna have to go WAY farther than they have, before i become scared. i'm a 100% mule-headed, pissed-off, AMERICAN who feels violated at the wussy cowardly act the little crazed piss ants pulled! i hope they enjoy hell. imagine the look on their faces when, upon their vain deaths, they seen the paradise they inherited. dumbasses! i know this doesn't sound very Christian-like, but mad is mad, and i'm as mad as their new home. anyone who is frightened, or becoming frightened, try this. just look at some of the pictures of the jets hitting the towers, or people jumping from the towers to their deaths. or read interviews with the people who lost someone in the tragedy. it makes my blood boil everytime! and when the blood boils, there is no fear. OSAMA BIN-BOY, YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED, PUNK!

[Edited by MorseRulez on 10-23-2001 at 10:46 AM]

[Christoph]

Originally posted by educatedfilm
I'm just surprised that so many americans see socailism as being "unamerican"...

Socialism is un-American.

Capitalism is based upon the idea of personal property and rights, and America was founded on these ideals. Nobody has the right to take away someone's property through coercion even if it means that the next guy starves. However, the important piece of the puzzle is charity and kindness. (which are both in short supply these days) America was founded to be a moral society, in which the rich guy would help to poor guy with nobody forcing him. He would do it just because it was the right thing to do. But through years of liberal indoctrination we've lost our morals and our sense of right and wrong, and hence we have socialism.


Originally posted by MorseRulez
OSAMA BIN-BOY, YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED, PUNK!

True dat.

[chris mood]

I disagree
I think there's more charities and government support for the less fortunate now then there every was in the history of America. I think its the middle-class that gets overlooked these days.

[educatedfilm]

"OSAMA BIN-BOY, YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED, PUNK!"
<sigh>.... Castro, Suddam, Gaddafi, alot of the somalian war lords... they're still alive... I think Ben Laden will prbably join that list... the one person they got, which they really shouldn't have done, was Mr Guevara...

Christoph: I'm not against capatalism, but i dont like the whole concept of a life being run by one thing, GREED...but i like the upward (and downward) mobility of poeple ...Don't get me wrong when i go out to buy a tuner or bottel neck or plectrums or whatever I dont think i have to pay for the "common good" or that I'm some how contributing to an egalitarian society , I'm paying for me... on a small scale it's absoloutly fine, but when you start to deal with numbers with alot of zeros, things start to change... Yes you have a right to own what you want, and your rights are guarded, and so are everyone else... inside the border...

Bardsely: thanks... yeah dylan is quite cool. He was acused by us (the brits) of being an anarchist, "why?" he asked, because he asked questions and didn't give answers he was told, and to be honest i'm not sure how i would answer to that logic... so what did mr Dylan say... "pass the anarchist a cigarette"... a very wise man... :)

[Bardsley]

Yes, classic "Don't Look Back" moments.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by educatedfilm
I'm not against capatalism, but i dont like the whole concept of a life being run by one thing, GREED...

Like it or not, that's how it is, and that's how it's always gunna be. It's human nature. That's why capitalism works so well, because it's based upon human nature. Everyone has a right to his own stuff, no matter how many zeros there may be.

[Raskolnikov]

The problem with human nature though seems to be that too many zeros try to run the show.

[Christoph]

Well, after all these brilliant one liners by Raskolnikov, I think that we should maybe get back to talking guitar . . .