Jon Schaffer Rhythm

[Silenoz111]

Hi all, I have been playing guitar now for about 14 years or so. Started off with private lessons to teach me the basics, then i decided to pretty much teach myself. Just by putting a cd on and playing along to songs.

I came across a band called Iced Earth, a cross between Iron Maiden, Metallica and Judas Priest. Their sound was jaw dropping, never heard such a tight clean rhythm guitar before, Ok early Metallica stuff was cool but this blew it away.

I have tried to copy that galloping sound but can never quite get the desired sound or keep the rhythm for very long. I have seen clips of Jon Schaffers' picking hand on some videos and its just a blur.

Does anyone know how to perfect this technique? I have tried all sorts of things from thin plecs, thick plecs, slowing some of the songs down using software, that does help but i just cannot seem to get the rhythm any faster or sounding any better. Have been told he uses 8 and 16th notes to produce this sound.

Please help!

Steve

[Benoit]

I know Iced Earth but never really sit down and analyse his playing tho.

The galop is usually created by playing triplets. Altho I can't play them as fast has some of the Iced Earth songs, the basic principle is still the same. The further away from the string you end up after striking a string, the longer it takes to hit it again thus the slower you'll be able to play. Triplets with as little motion as possible. You really want to control your picking hand so it doesn't go too far from the string.

Start very slowly and concentrate on reducing the distance of your pick from the strings. Then work on gaining speed while keeping that limited distance.

Most of the fast pickers I seen uses heavy picks.

[hunter1801]

I know exactly what you mean Silenoz. I can't get the speed and accuracy up to what it needs to be either. The song that REALLY annoys me is Pure Evil. Those triplets come at you fast, and they need to be played perfectly in time to sound right. Like Benoit said, just practice on keeping your hand motion as small as possible. Think of it as a "vibrating" motion with your hand....Fast and short. As for timing, that comes with practice. I still can't get it right, and be prepared for it to take a LONG time to learn.

Edit: oh ya, and don't use anything but heavy picks. And don't just practice starting with a downstroke. Because of the fact that they are "triplets", sometimes your going to find yourself needing to start with an upstroke.

Edit again:......and remember not to tense up your arm/hand/wrist too much because thats never good.

[Weslaba]

Tendonitis!!! AHHHHHHHH! :eek:

[Silenoz111]

Thanks guys,

Slayer's Raining Blood has some good galloping at the start before all hell breaks loose. Have managed to master that, and Whiplash off the Kill 'em All Metallica album.

I have a Zoom 606 multi-effects board, on a cheap Marshall 20W amp, Playing an Epiphone Les Paul... Searching for the Ultimate Distortion crunch, should i invest in a decent amp? or a better guitar? or even a decent board?

[rockonn91]

heh heh, schaffer...

thats almost my last name! woooot!

[Gargy]

On Iced Earth's "Horror Show" album, I believe Schafer read that he uses Gibson guitars (So he clearly has good taste), but I didn't hear what amps he uses. I get really close with my Marshall, so if its tone you're after any solid-state Marshall will get you close enough.

Though from their Alive in Athens DVD (Yes, I love Iced Earth) He appears to be using a Jackson Kelly.

[Zakknafein]

First of all - it is possible to play like Jon, but it requires a lot of practice. Always start slow, play with metronome, be precise and speed your playing up gradually, until you are really comfy with playing at a certain pace.

Now, the key in sounding great like jon, is few things.

First of all - rememeber about palm muting (which is obvious)

Also, the power in riffs and sound does not come from a lot of gain. The less gain the better (ofcourse within reason, you don't want to play clean guitars after all :P ) In order to make it sound right, you have to really put your back into riffing - remember that your picking has to be strong, while your hand has to remain loose when you are playing.

Second - the amp. Jon uses Larry Amplification (custom built by a german luthier/amp maker) and sometimes marshall amps, though I belive in studio he uses a mix of everything :D from what I observed, he usually uses Marshall 1960 cabinets, but they may be in his rider because they are very popular and easy to obtain.

Now, why is the amp so important? Because the tube amplifier gives you a totally different response to the pick attack, it's much cleaner and punchier ;)


And finally, you need a good guitar for that - any Gibson will do for example, because they have this thick and reach sound which is just sweet ;D


And most importantly - practice, practice and practice - it can be done, belive me ;) I have learned to play some IE riffs pretty much the way Jon does it, see for yourselves ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r555_ODZUFc&feature=channel_video_title

I hope I have been helpfull - in case of any questions email me @ zakknafein@gmail.com

Cheers
Robbie

P.S.

I forgot - You have to use thick strings for that - the video I posted is recorded on DR 11-54 strings (guitar tuned in D (whole tone lower then standard tuning)

[David Lalumiere]

Hey good playing on the video Zakknafein.

+1 to all of you guys. I did play some Iced Earth songs a few years ago, like Stormrider, Travel to stygian, Coming Curse and 1776. One thing that I did to make it easier was to alternate picking on those galoping three note grouping, like DUD--UDU--DUD--UDU, and U--DUD--U--DUD--U--DUD.

Like others have said, practicing a lot and minimizing picking movements are good ways to go.

By the way, those galoping 3 notes groupings, which caracterize a lot IE sound, aren't triplets. They are 2 sixteenth notes and 1 eight note groupings. You do triplets when you divide equally one beat in three notes, resulting in a steady stream of note.

Hope that helps... :)

[bodomshred]

Also use your pick hand thumb as your pivot, as opposed to your wrist, that's how I do it, works great