Time signatures

[hunter60]

**Ahem...tap, tap...is this thing on? - Okay, time again for Hunter60 asks an OHMIGOD HOW CAN HE NOT FIGURE THIS THING OUT Question....**

In blues songs, I've noted that 12/8 time is a 'slow blues'. Can someone explain to me how this could be? If you have more notes in a measure, wouldn't it be faster? I cannot come up with a good reason behind this. 12 eighth notes packed into a measure is three times as many as in 4/4 time.

Now I know that the answer is probably very, very simple so bear with me. Apparently, I am also very, very simple...hoo hoo. :o

[da_ardvark]

12/8 time........12 beats to the measure, 8th note gets one beat. Now what if you play each 8th note for 1 second? (Exaggerated for clarity) The would be a 12 second measure. This is very slow. I think you're getting time sig confused with speed. To assess the speed, you need to see how many beats/minute are called for.

[Weslaba]

Yeah, 12/8 works for slow blues. It has a sort of triplet effect as in, it's counted (usually) in a 3 3 3 3 form. Although some composers for band and orchestra pieces decide to be complicated and make it something like 2 2 2 3 3 or something dumb like that. A song, Vesuvius, which my band played, uses 9/8 a bit, and is in a 2 3 2 2 form. And yes, 12/8 doesn't distinguish speed. Bpm's do. So yes, simple answer.

[jlacharite]

but a good question all the same

[dvenetian]

One of my favorite songs in 12/8 is SRV's Version of "The Sky is Crying" by the great Elmore James.

[hunter60]

Thanks everyone. I think I understand what you're saying. I do know that this just confirms what I have been trying to avoid. I am just going to have to buckle down and learn some theory. I have no idea why it seems to intimidate me so much. I am really not that dumb (At least I hope) so I should be able to figure it out.

And I'm in complete agreement Dev, 'The Sky is crying' is a great SRV tune and I think that Elmore James was a genius. An absolute MASTER of slide.

[Weslaba]

12/8 really just means 4/4 with swing eigth's. That's the way I see it. I would have had no idea "The Sky Is Crying" was in 12/8, other than the fact that I was just told.

[dvenetian]

Thanks everyone. I think I understand what you're saying. I do know that this just confirms what I have been trying to avoid. I am just going to have to buckle down and learn some theory. I have no idea why it seems to intimidate me so much. I am really not that dumb (At least I hope) so I should be able to figure it out.

And I'm in complete agreement Dev, 'The Sky is crying' is a great SRV tune and I think that Elmore James was a genius. An absolute MASTER of slide.
Elmore definately was a genius and paved the way for many. His song "Dust my Broom" is classic.................
One thing I learned that helped me in keeping time was never to use more than one syllable within a count.
So, I avoid using seven, eleven, etc.... Because it can throw off the internal clock.
Example; one-two-three-four-five-six-sev-(en)-eight... This example can change Simple Time (division by 2) into Compound Time (division by 3) just by the count and can throw some off beat (internally) now becoming 9/8.
Instead I use 1-&-2-&-3-&-4-&............... Or just use sev- eight.
For 12/8 time I count 1-&-a-2-&-a-3-&-a-4-&-a..............
Or 1-&-2-&-3-&-4-&-5-&-6-&............
This was a great help for me, don't know if it helps all players because everyone is different.

[ren]

....I am just going to have to buckle down and learn some theory.

yeah, it would help you loads dude... and a little goes a long long way. I do what dvenetian said above with my students, work on counting in 4's or 8's depending on what you're doing. I'm sure I can send you some material on time sigs over the weekend... send me a mail to remind me man... :)

Works fine until you get to the screwy 7/8 or 5/4 type arrangements, which I'll admit are still work for me after all these years... :rolleyes:

[hunter60]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the responses. And yes, I'll start in some theory here soon so you all can expect more 'OH MY GOD - HOW CAN HE NOT GET THIS' questions soon. :)