Help What is this

[DAMAGED ONE]

----C---------------A 3rd fret
----G-------------- E 3rd fret played together is it a chord??

[Julian Vickers]

No it is not a chord, it is an interval of a 4th. Power chords aren't chords either, they are 5th intervals.

[DAMAGED ONE]

No it is not a chord, it is an interval of a 4th. Power chords aren't chords either, they are 5th intervals.Thanks Julian, We are using some in a song. Hell I didnt know what it was called! Thanks again.

[Lee Carlson]

I have heard some people call two note chords diads...

[ren]

yep - diad is the correct term... but you don't hear it very often....

[DAMAGED ONE]

Cool Thanks

[Weslaba]

Power chords aren't chords either, they are 5th intervals.

The term power chord needs to be removed from the musical language. Not too long from now, or probably as we speak, there are bundles of people walking around thinking that you can have a chord with 2 notes. :eek:

[clewnii]

The term power chord needs to be removed from the musical language. Not too long from now, or probably as we speak, there are bundles of people walking around thinking that you can have a chord with 2 notes. :eek:

>I< blame punk rock for that! But thats just me. I blame everything on punk rock.

[Weslaba]

An easy target. Although they use them the most, even AC/DC stuff was loaded w/ "power chords." But... I'm still w/ you on this. I too always blame punk rock. Its just like an oxy-moron though. A chord w/ 2 notes. And the word power is so overrated these days. They're not even that powerful! :D

[Julian Vickers]

yep - diad is the correct term... but you don't hear it very often....

Diad eh? Must remember that one. I'm not so hot on the names of stuff, my Jazz theory teacher in particular doesn't tell us names for too many things. I remember the term 'Neopolitan Chord' came up recently in these forums and it puzzled me until I looked it up and found it was just another name for something we've studied in jazz theory.

[dvenetian]

----C---------------A 3rd fret
----G-------------- E 3rd fret played together is it a chord??
This Topic keeps resurfacing. It's a Diad as mentioned, also referred to as a power chord inversion.
When you focus on the two notes played above, this incorporates the sound of a C power chord in the 1st inversion. G is the perfect 5th interval of C. When played as melodic intervals(Together), the tonic pitch will resolve to C, not G, because the perfect 5th supercedes the perfect 4th with tonal value. This is prevalent all over the neck when a diad is improvised through a progression, common in shortcuts with certain Rock Riffs. Example:
e--------------------
B--------------------
G----------------9--- (E note)
D----------------9--- (B note)
A--------------------
E--------------------

The Tonic will resolve to E, although this type of diad will not contain a Major or minor dominance because of the absent 3rd note, Hence the Power Chord and a common shortcut in some Rock music.

[DAMAGED ONE]

This Topic keeps resurfacing. It's a Diad as mentioned, also referred to as a power chord inversion.
When you focus on the two notes played above, this incorporates the sound of a C power chord in the 1st inversion. G is the perfect 5th interval of C. When played as melodic intervals(Together), the tonic pitch will resolve to C, not G, because the perfect 5th supercedes the perfect 4th with tonal value. This is prevalent all over the neck when a diad is improvised through a progression, common in shortcuts with certain Rock Riffs. Example:
e--------------------
B--------------------
G----------------9--- (E note)
D----------------9--- (B note)
A--------------------
E--------------------

The Tonic will resolve to E, although this type of diad will not contain a Major or minor dominance because of the absent 3rd note, Hence the Power Chord and a common shortcut in some Rock music.Cool Im playin Bass on The song in question so in My example C is the Root (Right) :cool:

[dvenetian]

Cool Im playin Bass on The song in question so in My example C is the Root (Right) :cool:
You got it Bro.................

[Grambo]

Power chords have two different notes - the first and the fifth
But you play: the first, the fifth, and the first an octave higher - 3 notes

[Weslaba]

But you play: the first, the fifth, and the first an octave higher - 3 notes
Yes, 3 notes.....two of them being the same.

[Grambo]

Yes, 3 notes.....two of them being the same.

Yep, exactly:

A5 - A, E , A

E5 - E, B , E

[vetlevg]

It's quartal harmony.
Major 4th interval

[Geoff Walker]

Hey there - now I'm really confused -

I thought that "power chords" were the first and the fifth NOTE of a scale - not separated by 5 semitones, so for example 5th string 3rd fret (C), and 4th string 5th fret (G), and if you were going to go REALLY mad and make it a three note chord you could put in the octave of the first note - 3rd string 5th fret (C again).

If you are only using two notes is it still a DIAD - meaning two notes, rather than TRIAD meaning three notes?


Help.

[dvenetian]

Hey there - now I'm really confused -
I thought that "power chords" were the first and the fifth NOTE of a scale - not separated by 5 semitones, so for example 5th string 3rd fret (C), and 4th string 5th fret (G), and if you were going to go REALLY mad and make it a three note chord you could put in the octave of the first note - 3rd string 5th fret (C again).
If you are only using two notes is it still a DIAD - meaning two notes, rather than TRIAD meaning three notes.
Help.
Maybe this will clear things up. It was somewhat confusing by how it is worded. (Power Chord = 3 notes, A-E-A) In reality there are only 2 notes being used; A and E (This is a Diad). Always remember that any scale is a division of the Octive into smaller Intervals by various degrees. The maximum division of Intervals that will fit from any given note to it's Octive is 12.
Any two pitches--played simultaneous or consecutively ---constitute an Interval that can be identified by either of two methods; Tonal Context -----
Which is what you used above referring to the first and fifth intervals in Scale degrees from the Root (it's my preferred choice to use as well) and the other is by Pitch Class set which is used to measure the interval in semitones by count. I believe the Pitch Class method will be much easier to explain the theory behind what's going on here.
Many players memorize Whole-step, half-step (Or Whatever) patterns to form scales, but never grasp the function in Tonal context that the intervals create for the relationship with the notes.
Let's create a Diatonic scale (a 7 note scale). We'll use the "A" Major scale since "A" is Tonic for the Diad above .

6thxx|--|--|--|--|-A-|--|-B-|--|-C#|-D-|--|-E-|--|-F#|--|-G#|-a-|

If this were on the 6th string, ( 6thxx| = Open E) would be the Nut and A would rest between the 4th and 5th frets.
It's important to realize that scales form in both directions from the Tonic (A) but the interval sequence switches it's players around (So to speak) so that their relationship remains the same with the Tonic.
We know that E is the 5th interval (Dominant) of A. If we count in sequence From A to E by semitones, it equals 7 intervals. Now if we count again from A going in the opposite direction using 7 semitones, it doesn't work. We end up on D, which is the 4th interval (Sub-Dominant) of A.. Why??? Because 7 forward and 7 backward = 14 intervals and the Max is 12. If we count back 5 semitones from A, we end up on the open E and that works because 7+5=12.
Now for that problem created counting back 7 intervals and ending up on D.
If we count up from A to D by semitones, it equals 5 intervals and we're equal again to 12 (5 up and 7 back). So the intervals created to make the Perfect 4th up from the Tonic become the intervals needed to create the Perfect 5th down from the Tonic and vise-versa.
The Original Post displays a tab with a Diad using the notes 6th string, 3rd fret (G) and 5th string, 3rd fret (C) being played together, asking "What is this"??? Well, C is 5 semitones up from G which makes C the Perfect 4th interval of G. What if we count back 5 semitones from a note like we did from A? We found the 5th (E). So if we count back 5 from C, we find it's 5th (G). If we count up 7 from C, yep it's G, the 5th of C which makes C the Tonic, so the tab creates a C Diad in tonality and even though the G is lower in tone, it belongs to C.
Count back 5 semitones from D in the A Major scale above. Yep, A is the 5th of D. Now count up 7 semitones from D, A again and it equals 12.....
If you play the open low E and the open A string together, A wins, you can even throw in the e Octive if you'd like (4th string, 2nd fret) still an A. You guessed it, A is the Perfect 4th of E. It's all in the intervals.
I probably confused things beyond belief.
Hope it helps...........................

[equator]

Maybe this will clear things up.....
I probably confused things beyond belief.
Hope it helps...........................


OMG. I think you are over complicating things there.
It’s so simple…Power chords are just perfect intervals. And Perfect Intervals are consonant regardless their position.
Inverting a P5 results in a P4. Like in the case of a C power chord:
C-G=P5
If you invert it you get
G-C=P4

Those are Perfect Intervals, and they are consonant, and for that reason they sound good even if you saturate them with distortion.

By the process known as “Doubling Chord Tones” you can create different voicings.


e-------------------------------------------8---------15-------- etc
B-------------------------------------------8---------13--------
G---------------------------------12----------------------------
D--------------10------10--------10----------------------------
A-----10-------10------10--------10----------------------------
E------8-----------------8---------8----------------------------


I am not trying to put you down bro, just keeping things simple.

[dvenetian]

OMG. I think you are over complicating things there.
It’s so simple…Power chords are just perfect intervals. And Perfect Intervals are consonant regardless their position.
Inverting a P5 results in a P4. Like in the case of a C power chord:
C-G=P5
If you invert it you get
G-C=P4
I am not trying to put you down bro, just keeping things simple.
I figured as much after writng it. Sorry about the Bad Post........

What I was trying to expain is regardless of the inversion, C is the tonic because of the interval placement.
Got a little carried away.... My Bad...

[Geoff Walker]

Hey there DVenetian and Equator, I DO see what you are saying -thanks for your erudition on the subject of Perfect intervals.
Is that why the fifth note of a scale is called the dominant?
I finally see now why in a pair of notes how you decide which is the Tonic by counting one way and the other until you find which will be the fifth or not.
That is way cool.
Thanks again.

NOW - how does it work when you have say 6th String fret 3, 5th string fret2. This pair of notes still sound OK together, and it is the first and third of G major. But why is it G and not a chord (or DIAD) of B, which is the other note???

I do wish they had taught music theory at my school all those years ago.
I find it HUGELY frustrating not to understand the nuts and bolts of music, and now I have, maybe unlocked a little bit of the puzzle thanks to you guys.

Geoff Walker

[dvenetian]

The 5th note in a scale is called the dominant because it shares 6 of the 7 notes with the Tonic scale.
Example;
C Major scale = C-D-E-F-G-A-B
G Major scale = G-A-B-C-D-E-F#
This theory is referred to as "The Circle Of Fifths"

[equator]

Although we are deviating from the original question in this thread, I’m gonna try to answer your questions.


Is that why the fifth note of a scale is called the dominant?
Yes. The fifth degree of a scale is called Dominant Note. This is a very important note because the chord built on this degree is a Dominant Chord, which has a strong tendency to resolve to the tonal center of the key. (Tonic)
As stated by dvenetian, the G major scale shares 6 notes with the C major scale, allowing you to Modulate between those two keys.
Of course you can Modulate to the key of C minor, via the G7 chord as well.


NOW - how does it work when you have say 6th String fret 3, 5th string fret2. This pair of notes still sound OK together, and it is the first and third of G major.
In the key of G major, the distance from G to B, constitutes an interval of Major 3rd (M3).
And sound fairly good because is considered of Imperfect Consonance; whereas the interval from G to D is considered of Perfect Consonance.

But why is it G and not a chord (or DIAD) of B, which is the other note???
The reason why G7 functions as Primary Dominant is because the B note present in the G7 chord, constitutes the Leading Tone in the key of C major.
The leading tone resolves to the tonic from a semitone bellow.

Hope that helps.

[dvenetian]

Nice post Equ..... Well versed and explained (for some it is a foreign language no matter how simple we try in words, especially written words related to theory)..... Heck, Eq I say we go for it even though it's drifting from the original topic. It may actually help someone seeking more Knowledge. These posts aren't something that can just be purchased and Wahlaa. There is a price to pay by those who are hungry and a price that was paid by those who offer their knowledge so others might grasp the complexed voicings that never end.
Music re-invents over and over giving it life through emotions of creativity that span from Love to Hate. The Power produced by it's sound alone, change people's emotion on the spot, regardless if we see the artist or not...
Seeing the Artist adds another dimension to emotional behaviors from joy to tears to Rage. It's now a major part of lifestyle with 99% of Teens including many youngsters down to what they wear. Sheezzz When I was A kid 3/4 of my friends didn't even listen to music because they were too busy playing outside (no Playstation back then).
I saw the change coming slowly, spewing and smoldering like Hot Lava.
Zeppelin, Bad Co. Floyd and even the Sex Pistols weren't grabbing the younger aged audience by storm. Most only liked One song--"Ironman" and only the Intro at that..
Then all hell broke loose when the introduction on a Live album stated "YOU WANTED THE BEST, YOU GOT THE BEST, THE HOTTEST BAND IN THE LAND--------KISS..... Every kid in school had something drawn on their Pee-Chee folders about KISS...... After playing the album 25,000 times in a row, they burnt out but something inside them needed to be fed and "Frampton Comes Alive" wasn't gonna cut it. That opened the flood gates for new bands just craving more aggressive and rapid changes to invent the sound that would change the reactions of behavior in the majority of our younger generation.
Suddenly we went from bands like "Lovin Spoonful" to "Death Angel" And Snoop Dogg .
Music is a gift for all to explore with emotion.

[dvenetian]

An interesting attribute of the Major scale is the fact that through it's diatonic function by intervals, creates a Tritone.
A diatonic scale contains 3 Major and 3 minor triads derived from it's interval's, so that means of 6 commom tones shared there are 6 perfect 5th's in the scale. Example:
C Major Scale = C-D-E-F-G-A-B
Perfect 5th of start note.
C = G
D = A
E = B
F = C
G = D
A = E

B = F# (doesn't fit, 5th (F#) needs to be flattened to F (b5th) to fit)

So, the b5th of B = F (also referred as Aug 4th)
Notice that F is not the perfect 5th to any of the common tones in C Major, but has become shared with B by alteration. In order for it to share means it should work both ways;
F = C (flatten the 5th (C) to B (b5th)
So, the b5th of F = B (also referred as Dim 5th)

In the C Major scale the intervals between F (4th) and B (7th) are a Tritone which creates dissonance and instability, demanding resolution when played as a harmonic interval (notes played simultaneously).
When looking at a G7 chord, notice that the tritone is present (G-B-D-F).

[DAMAGED ONE]

An interesting attribute of the Major scale is the fact that through it's diatonic function by intervals, creates a Tritone.
A diatonic scale contains 3 Major and 3 minor triads derived from it's interval's, so that means of 6 commom tones shared there are 6 perfect 5th's in the scale. Example:
C Major Scale = C-D-E-F-G-A-B
Perfect 5th of start note.
C = G
D = A
E = B
F = C
G = D
A = E

B = F# (doesn't fit, 5th (F#) needs to be flattened to F (b5th) to fit)

So, the b5th of B = F (also referred as Aug 4th)
Notice that F is not the perfect 5th to any of the common tones in C Major, but has become shared with B by alteration. In order for it to share means it should work both ways;
F = C (flatten the 5th (C) to B (b5th)
So, the b5th of F = B (also referred as Dim 5th)

In the C Major scale the intervals between F (4th) and B (7th) are a Tritone which creates dissonance and instability, demanding resolution when played as a harmonic interval (notes played simultaneously).
When looking at a G7 chord, notice that the tritone is present (G-B-D-F).Cool, Ive found out alot about this lately, On Bass you can get away with playing eather one of to two notes and it sounds ok It's more of a dynamics type thing.