The review of the new ampeg

[The Ace]

Alright, now that I've had it for a few months, it's time for you all to hear about my new (well... old) Ampeg VT-22 (recently bought on ebay, for those of you who didn't read the thread awhile back).

Ok... so at first I hated it... I got really mad at myself for letting all of LATS raving get to me. The problem with it was it just didn't give me a useable tone... I couldn't get that jazz sound, or the SRV sound I've been longing for.

I took a twenty foot chord, put the amp in my garage, opened tthe garage door, put the amp on 10, and played the start spangled banner. That was actually pretty cool, but nevertheless I still wasn't happy.

So I messed with the EQ for hours, and days, and weeks... I went online and read more reviews of the amp, finding out that you needed to tweak it to the max to get the sound you're looking for.

And at long last...

I found a useable tone, but it's still not what I'm looking for. I've found a way to get a nice funk tone, but the amp in general sounds really harsh to me. Maybe it's just because this isn't the typical fender amp that I could just leave flat and still great a fantastic tone out of.

But I'm hoping that I can find the magic of this amp eventually...

but I am peeved about two things -

Weight: This thing is so darn heavy, and I probably wouldn't mind that if I had found the perfect tone by now. Unfortunately that hasn't happened yet, and now weight is just one more thing getting on my nerves...

The second thing is that it just sounds old. The amp buzzes and rattles like nothing I've ever heard before. On some specific notes I'll hear a loud spring buzz that sounds like the reverb spring. Sometimes, and this is the worst of all, it just starts ringing (you know, like the "this is only a test" sound from the broadcasting company on TV?). And no matter what I do - turn off the volume of the guitar, turn down the volume of the amp, turn down the reverb, it just continues. I have to turn the amp off and on to stop it. The control panel also moves around at the top (like it shakes), and I don't know if it's supposed to do this.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not going to give up on this amp, after all the good things I've heard abou it. But it isn't living up to the name as of right now.

So please help - what can I do to save myself from thinking I made a terrible purchase?

Thanks!

[magicninja]

What can you do? PM LATS and he'll tell you anything and everything about your amp. Most of us don't jam Ampeg. LATS is the man to go to.

[iamthe_eggman]

Have you retubed it? It sounds like one of your tubes might be going awry. Also, with the right tubes, you'll get closer to the tone you want. Bob at Eurotubes was very helpful when I described the amp I had and the tone I wanted and helped me get the right tubes.

[Andrew Sa]

wow dude, you got a reply out of Eggy...we barely ever see that guy around here anymore...remember about 3 years ago when he said he was never coming back? come to think of it, that could have been anything from 6 months to 4 years ago...

hi Egg man

[The Ace]

wow dude, you got a reply out of Eggy...

That's cuz egg man is my boy. He handed me the torch when he left...





I dropped it....

[Lordathestrings]

First off, it's actually hard to not get good tone out of a V-series Ampeg. So there's something wrong. With all of the tone controls set to the 12 o'clock position, there is no boost or cut effect, so the sound you get should be exactly what your guitar delivers to the input, only loud! Tweak from there.

But if it buzzes, or rattles, or gives unprovoked feedback, it is not healthy. The reverb tank has long springs in it that can make a horrible crashing sound if the amp gets bumped hard, but that shouldn't happen unless it gets bumped hard. The whole chassis is shock-mounted on rubber supports - that's why the control panel can move. The intent was to reduce shock damage to the tubes when the amp is carted around from gig to gig. There are limits to anything. The amp should have been shipped to you with the tubes removed and carefully packed separately.

A healthy VT-22 should have lots of clean headroom, smoothly breaking into rich distortion that 10 out of 10 people recognize as sounding right. I have to conclude that your amp has some failed components.

Swap some e-mails with Bob at Eurotubes, and look around for a good amp tech who knows old Ampegs. Marshall fanatics don't understand. Fender-heads have a better feel for what a strong clean amp should sound like, but a tech who loves Ampegs can get the best out of it for you.

I suspect there's a problem with the reverb driver tube, and/or the Phase Inverter that drives the power section. The bias supply for the power tubes should also be modified to make it adjustable. The factory setup was adjusted by physically removing and installing resistors of different values to get the right voltage. A good multi-turn trimpot will not shift from vibration, and makes re-biasing much easier.

While you're looking for a tech, you can do some investigation yourself, but be careful. Any tube amp has lethal voltages in it. Ampegs have some particularly high plate voltages. Your power tubes are probably OK, but I think the preamp has some problems that are feeding bad signal to the power stage. Get a plastic chopstick, or piece of wooden dowel about a foot long, and gently tap the bottles of the tubes. All tubes are slightly microphonic, but a problem tube will scream when you tap it. If you have any spare tubes, you can swap them out one at a time to see if the problem is caused by an individual tube, or if it remains unchanged with different tube(s) installed.

Don't be discouraged. That is a tone-monster amp, with enough power to rearrange your neighbor's furniture when its healthy. Get it put right, and you will probably never again be willing settle for anything less.

[PRSplaya]

Ampeg should give you an endorsement!

[Lordathestrings]

Ampeg should give you an endorsement!
They should re-issue the V-series, just as they were made back in the day! :cool:

[alucard0941]

just curiosity, are there any people on this forum that do endorse guitar products. I know one instructor endorses Hamer guitars. Pretty cool.

[PRSplaya]

They should re-issue the V-series, just as they were made back in the day! :cool:
In fact, they should just stop trying to make new and "improved" amps, and put all the old classics back into production using the exact specs that were used back in the day. Also, quality control of gear and tubes should have a much tighter tollerance than what they have now. I'm beginning to think that there is no such thing as QC anymore.

[Lordathestrings]

In fact, they should just stop trying to make new and "improved" amps, and put all the old classics back into production using the exact specs that were used back in the day. ...
Just try explaining that to all those people who think that Spider II amps actually sound good... :p

[6strngs_2hmbkrs]

Just try explaining that to all those people who think that Spider II amps actually sound good... :p
hey, they sound better than anything else for $200!

but after having owned a tube amp for several months now, I must say the spider will never compare to the tone (or volume) I get out of my peavey!

[PRSplaya]

Peaveys Rule!!!!!!!!

[6strngs_2hmbkrs]

Peaveys Rule!!!!!!!!
AMEN!

[Andrew Sa]

Ibanez Thermions rule (but other Ibanez amps certainly do not!

I tried the Thermion up against a XXX, and I just preffered the Ibanez...The xxx head was also cool, but not as cool in my opinion

[Lordathestrings]

... I tried the Thermion up against a XXX, and I just preffered the Ibanez...The xxx head was also cool, but not as cool in my opinion

If we all had exactly the same taste in tone, there would only be one set of gear available. And we'd all sound the same. Yeaackkk! :p

I recommended the VT-22 to the Ace, because I think it fits his needs. I'm very disappointed to find out that it has not been good to him, but I'm also very sure that his problem is caused by his particular amp being unhealthy. I think that when he gets it fixed, he will agree that its a great amp. Even then, though, he may still decide that it isn't quite what he wants. The good news is that he got it for a good price, and he should be able to recover his costs if he decides to sell it.

[The Ace]

Alright here's the email I received from eurotubes (please keep in mind this is just his opinion):

"As a VT22 owner I can tell you from experience that getting an SRV tone or even a good Jazz tone is not really what these amps do well. If you’re after a pretty good clean and are either going to use pedals or simply dime it out then it’s a mediocre amp. It’s not great, it’s not crap, it’s just mediocre. The only reason I have one is because I got into it for 25.00 and the speakers were worth that.

The best tone these amps get is in the full tilt boogie mode, in other words dimed out. This way the inherent tube rattle is covered up. Tubes placed this close to a couple 12’s equals tube rattle no matter what brand you use.

I’m not trying sound like a downer on VT22’s and I keep mine around because it does have that one trick that it does pretty well but that’s it. You will find plenty of players out there including quite a few VT22 customers of mine that love these amps and will call me crazy but I always give my honest opinion when asked.

Good tubes like the JJ 6L6GC’s which is what I run in them (same tube as the JJ 7027A) and good pre’s will add a little warmth but if you’re after a good SRV tone and no tube rattle then you won’t get it from this amp….

I can sell you tubes, and depending on what tubes are in the amp now and their condition you will probably hear an increase in tone quality but not the result you’re after.

In closing, I’m NPT blowing you off on this and I will of course answer any other specific questions you have or if you prefer to call me I would be glad to spend dome phone time with you on this.

Thanks,
Bob"

Any opinions?

[Lordathestrings]

I think "YMMV" applies here. I don't get to dime mine, because I don't play in large clubs where a 100+ Watt amp can be cranked without hurting people. So its usually running clean, with pedals for added distortion, or using a Peavey Rock Master preamp for uber-gain.

At tolerable volume levels, I don't get tube rattle. None. And the tone is very flexible and adjustable. From thick 'woman tone' to Roy Buchanan-type icepick shrill. To me, Fender and Marshall amps are the one-trick ponies. The Ampeg can produce their tones, plus anything else you care to dial in.

If pure clean is all you want, get an old Roland JC-120. If you want something that will do it all, get an old Ampeg. As Bob says, his experience is different. I'm not about to call him crazy - I just find that my results don't match his. Or Ace's, apparently.

[PRSplaya]

Do you have a way to record and upload a few clips of your ampeg? I'd love to hear a few different tones from it, raw, guitar straight in, no accompaniment music/backing track, just guitar-amp-mic-tape/HD-internet. If you aren't able to do this, do you know of any clips like this anywhere that I could listen to? I'm still very intrigued with the V-4, and would love to be able to try one through my cab with a hotplate, but that's a little easier said than done :(

[Lordathestrings]

I haven't got any recordings I can send you. I think the sound that Eurotubes Bob calls "full tilt boogie" is best captured on the Rolling Stones track "Midnight Rambler". To say that that is the only sound you can get from it, is to overlook a lot of other possibilities. And if tube rattle is an unavoidable consequence of the VT-22 design, why are there so many combo tube amps?

I understand the logic behind the critique, and I admit that there are more fans of the V-4 head than the VT-22 combo, but I get what I want out of my VT, and I ain't shy about sayin' so. I actually play my salvaged VT-40 more often, but thats because it has a Master Volume, not because it sounds better.

[Lordathestrings]

Well, I got to tearin' myself up about The Ace's amp problems, and I laid out the situation at the other forum I frequent. The members there are almost all gigging professional players with many years of experience. If there's something I'm not sure of, I can get the benefit of advice from some of the best minds out there.

The consensus is that a healthy VT-22 is a wonderful amp that does not misbehave the way The Ace has described his. He should take it to a good tech to get it fixed before he spends any money on tubes. There may be nothing wrong with the tubes that are in it. The problems could be caused by something else entirely. This amp has had several owners over the last 30 years, and until someone competent 'looks under the hood', there's no way of knowing what kind of mods or bad repairs have been inflicted on it.

Check out my thread at >The Plexi Palace (http://www.vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?p=475796#475796)< forum Miscellaneous American Amplifiers section. This BBS is hosted by the Mojave Ampworks. They produce some wonderful boutique-quality amplifiers. And the PP board is a gold mine of knowledge for those who ask respectfully. If you visit, I strongly advise that you be on your best behaviour.

[The Ace]

That's a great help. Thank you!

[Lordathestrings]

You are very welcome, Ace. I hold that...

"He who gives you just his own opinion serves only himself.

He who faithfully delivers the distillation of many opinions serves you well"

:cool:

[The Ace]

Well, I've finally made up my mind. I believe I am going to sell her... Wait! Hear me out.

The Ampeg, although I haven't gotten it repaired yet (I don't want to take it to guitar center with their ridiculously expensive repairman, and the other guy I know hasn't gotten back to me), is simply too large for me. Even if it had the most georgous tone in the world (which it might, if I ever do fix it), it would not be worth it to me, because it's just not feasible to bring it around with me. As a junior in high school, I'm not going to be landing any arena-sized gigs... I don't need that much power, and I cannot bear that much weight all the time. Perhaps if I had gotten the smaller combo this would be different.

As of right now, I've been getting by just fine using my school's solid state Fender Ultra chorus. It has all the power I need (with a large jazz ensemble, I still don't turn it past 2 or 3) and it is easily carried by one person. The distortion is pretty terrible, but there are ways around this. I've been going around to a lot of jazz clubs lately also, and the guitar players have been using small amps there (like less than 50 watts) and they have been fine.

So, although I would love to just have a massive Ampeg capable of destroying houses, it is not worth it to have cost me $500 (plus 100 shipping), when I won't be able to use it anywhere...

Sorry Ampeg... I gave you a shot, maybe when I'm rich and famous and have roadies and stuff I'll come back to you.

But the real question is - how to go about selling it? I've never sold something on ebay before...

[Lordathestrings]

If you're honest about its current condition, you're not likely to get much for it. If you're not honest, well, you're being dishonest , right?

As one of the guys on that other forum said, yeah, its heavy - thats what wheels are for. Originally these beasts were sold with dolly carts. As for not needing that much power, I agree. I don't use mine if I want anything but that rich clean sound, because there aren't any places where I can crank it without hurting anyone. Unless I use pedals or a preamp. I haven't exactly been secretive about that.

Try posting in that thread I linked you to, asking for direction to a good tech in your area. Get that monster fixed, experience the ultimate power (go ahead, play The Star Spangled Banner again), and then sell for a good dollar, knowing you'll have stories for your grandchildren.

[The Ace]

Will do. Thanks for all the help.