Sweeping - should I bother?

[jiujitsu_jesus]

On the weekend, I got one of my first opportunities to jam on the guitar with a player other than my teacher. He was much better than me, so I mostly stuck to rhythm and let him play lead. Towards the end, though, he said that he wanted to try out a head that he'd come up with, so he switched to rhythm and asked me to improvise over it. So improvise, I did. He said that I was good (although I think he was just being kind), and he was surprised that I didn't know how to sweep arpeggios. He seemed to use a fair bit of sweep picking in his leads; he said that I should learn to sweep pick myself if I wanted to sound better. I don't know about this - I'm not much of a speed freak, and besides, I play fingerstyle, so I don't know whether it's even possible for me to sweep pick. What do you guys think - should I learn, or isn't it worth my while?

[Julian Vickers]

hey dude,

It's pretty hard (impossible?) to sweep pick fingerstyle. In my opinion I wouldn't bother with sweep picking until you've got a good speed with both your legato and your alternate picking, especially the latter.
In my opinion, sweep picking is in no way necessary to play good melodic fast solos, they always just sound like showing off, so until you're pretty good with your fundamentals I wouldn't bother with it.

(just my humble opinion, I'm sure others feel the opposite)

[suicidalmoose]

when you start playing with a pick it's probably good to practice sweep picking no matter how frustrating it is, it's just handy you know. but no necessity for it really, but it lets you do cool things fast. Why do you play fingerstyle? Personal preference or force of habit? IMO picks are way better for solo's and i can neva get as much punch out of my guitar if i play with my fingers.

[aschleman]

hey dude,

It's pretty hard (impossible?) to sweep pick fingerstyle. In my opinion I wouldn't bother with sweep picking until you've got a good speed with both your legato and your alternate picking, especially the latter.
In my opinion, sweep picking is in no way necessary to play good melodic fast solos, they always just sound like showing off, so until you're pretty good with your fundamentals I wouldn't bother with it.

(just my humble opinion, I'm sure others feel the opposite)

It's not impossible... just a tad harder. Check out any video of John Mayer play Neon...... he sweeps while finger picking pretty much the entire song. I would also imagine it's a pretty common technique used in classical guitar playing. I've seen some videos of Classical players playing pieces by Paganini.... in which you almost have to sweep....

But I agree... Sweep picking isn't a necessity to you being a good guitar player. It depends on what kind of music you're into... If you don't wish your style to revolve around playing the most mindless, emotionless, and tonally disconnected notes possible....... then I would say don't be concerned with learning a lot of sweeping... I myself can sweep effectively... better than most I'd say.... But when I play the biggest sweep I usually use is a three string sweep... I don't play fast and often times a big six string sweep sounds way out of place... Especially in a blues or rock setting... which I mostly play. If you want to be a metal God.... start learning and practicing this second though.

[jimmy_kwtx]

Sound advice all around.

It was especially good to see that you are branching out of your comfort zone by playing with others.

Never be embarrassed if some one is better. Just PLAY!!!

Personal preference will always determine what "style" you play. Sweep picking ( arrpegios ) are good to learn.

Try using a finger pick on your thumb if you still want to keep to your tradional method of playing but experiment on something different -- you will be amazed at the different ideas that will come to you.

The arrpegios are good to know and can be incorporated in more of a warm up setting since it will help you focus more on finger placement ( one note per string) and string recoginition (basically can you hit that string every time with out looking and with confidence). Also play/practice them at different speeds and stick with the 3 string variety yo begin with.

[Cryptic Excretions]

Personally, I sweep a piss load, so I wouldn't be able to go without it, but it's pretty much things like that that help me have my own style vs. someone else and their style. You pretty much have to decide for yourself what you want to be good at and spend the time to make that good. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to sweep. It just depends on what you want to be good at.

[Jolly McJollyson]

On the weekend, I got one of my first opportunities to jam on the guitar with a player other than my teacher. He was much better than me, so I mostly stuck to rhythm and let him play lead. Towards the end, though, he said that he wanted to try out a head that he'd come up with, so he switched to rhythm and asked me to improvise over it. So improvise, I did. He said that I was good (although I think he was just being kind), and he was surprised that I didn't know how to sweep arpeggios. He seemed to use a fair bit of sweep picking in his leads; he said that I should learn to sweep pick myself if I wanted to sound better. I don't know about this - I'm not much of a speed freak, and besides, I play fingerstyle, so I don't know whether it's even possible for me to sweep pick. What do you guys think - should I learn, or isn't it worth my while?
Mark Knopfler fingerpicks, and his style is almost entirely arpeggios and double stops.

[jiujitsu_jesus]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. :) I'm still not sure whether I want to do it or not, though. It's that I'm a very idiosyncratic player - okay, I'm a complete weirdo! I'm the only player I know personally who plays exclusively with my fingers, and my influences are fairly unusual - I play psychedelia, pop and funk as well as jazz and rock, unlike the other players I know. I was just a little worried that I wouldn't be able to fit in with the others if I didn't know the most popular techniques, like sweep picking (my legato and alt-"picking" are both fine, but I don't use them in the same way as the others :( ). I guess I'll have a go, and if I can't get comfortable with it, I won't bother with it. Thanks again. :)

[magicninja]

I did a little sweeping in my May GT solo. You don't have to use sweeping as a means for speed but more for fluid arps. That's how i see it anyway.

[Cryptic Excretions]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. :) I'm still not sure whether I want to do it or not, though. It's that I'm a very idiosyncratic player - okay, I'm a complete weirdo! I'm the only player I know personally who plays exclusively with my fingers, and my influences are fairly unusual - I play psychedelia, pop and funk as well as jazz and rock, unlike the other players I know. I was just a little worried that I wouldn't be able to fit in with the others if I didn't know the most popular techniques, like sweep picking (my legato and alt-"picking" are both fine, but I don't use them in the same way as the others :( ). I guess I'll have a go, and if I can't get comfortable with it, I won't bother with it. Thanks again. :)
Sometimes the best style that meshes with others is a style that stands out from the others. Just because they sweep doesn't mean that you won't blend well with them. But I say give it a whirl anyway. You never know, you might enjoy doing it, or you might decide that you just didn't enjoy it.

[CW14]

Well... why not? You have nothing to lose by learning to sweep so go for it

It's not the end of the world, but sweeps can sound good when used in the right context

[jimmy_kwtx]

Here is an example of an easy one to learn that sounds pretty cool and can help you decide if you want to pursue more.

This is stone age ( I prefer pencil/pen and paper) and because of this I have made it simple.

Here'goes and I hope it helps:

Last three strings.

This is played in the third fret position**but as all closed patterns go it can be played anywhere. Find out what is most comfortable for you**

Numbers represent frets and numbers in () represent "suggested fingering".

Use a down stroke to hit each note and let ring.
**recomend playing very very slow at first to really hear the notes**

Slide from 6 to 9 (pick or Hmr On).

Pick again but in an up-stroke (legato or pick) back down.

Done! :D

E l-----------3-(1)-(sld)--6-(1)--9-(4)--6-(1)---------------
B l-----5-(3)-----------------------------------8-(3)--------
G l6-(4)------------------------------------------9-(4)-6-(1)

This is even more archaic. But I also like to see patterns --it helps you visualize what you are playing--"be the ball" (what movie/movies?)

Here is the Pattern


E l-3-l---l---l-4/6-l---l---l-5-l---
B l---l---l-2-l---l---l-7-l---l---
G l---l---l---l-1/9-l---l---l-8-l---


Closed "box" pattern. Numbers represent the order that the fretted notes are played.

Hope it helps.

[earthman buck]

Is sweeping when you down-pick when going to higher strings and up-pick when going to lower strings?

[rockonn91]

more or less, yeah.

[Cryptic Excretions]

Is sweeping when you down-pick when going to higher strings and up-pick when going to lower strings?
Pretty much, but you're not really making individual pick strokes. You give one solid downward push through all the strings and the same for the alternate direction.

[jimmy_kwtx]

Whew! had to edit the first post :eek: I hope it looks better.

earthman. This could be considered a yes/no question.

Yes
The principle of the sweep it a down stroke upstroke pattern--actually think of an overly exagerated cartoon of some one sweeping the floor-- the motion lines forming the arc.

This is what your pick hand should be "doing". The number of notes played per string can vary for each different "sweep". This will actaully rely more on the person doing the sweeping. i.e. how good is your legato and Hmr Ons and where are "you" in terms of your playing ability.

NO
To get all technical and to spend the next 1 hour writing a chapter :rolleyes: lets just go to the bottom line--

A "sweep" is an arrpegio (I know I suck as spelling ).

A string of notes.

I way to sweeten up something. or if played very slow a way to buy some time while improvising.

Example 2(easiest)-- Play a standard C chord in the open position. Now -- Only pick-- in this order-- 5th string, 4th string, 3rd string,4th string, and 5th.

Use palm mute and try to play this as fast as you can.

Dude! you did it, basic sweep

think of any chord you know. even a -- Dsus2 b13 -- Write out the notes starting from Beginning root to Ending root. and find a way to play those notes in a closed "box" position and you can play a "sweep". How Alex Lifeson you wanna get is on you.

I'm off my soap box.

I hope this helps and rock on!!!!

[Fret spider]

fi am personally trying to learn ton sweep at the moment and i would learn it, but i am also pretty much exclusivly a pick player.

on the other hand i would also like to be able to play fingerstyle properly, cos i aint very good at it and cant improvise in it at all.

i guess its just wether u feel that you can fit sweeping into the way you play and if it would serve the solo to do this. theres no point just putting it in there if it doesnt suit your style, unless u can adapt your style, or the way you sweep pick.

overall i would learn it cos u can then play with more variety, but i also want to be able to play everything :D , and i guess thats a bit overly ambitious

[jiujitsu_jesus]

Thanks for the post, Jimmy :) . I won't have time to try it out 'til tomorrow, but I'll be sure to give it a shot.
Oh, and rep points are forthcoming!

[jimmy_kwtx]

fi am personally trying to learn ton sweep at the moment and i would learn it, but i am also pretty much exclusivly a pick player.

on the other hand i would also like to be able to play fingerstyle properly, cos i aint very good at it and cant improvise in it at all.

i guess its just wether u feel that you can fit sweeping into the way you play and if it would serve the solo to do this. theres no point just putting it in there if it doesnt suit your style, unless u can adapt your style, or the way you sweep pick.

overall i would learn it cos u can then play with more variety, but i also want to be able to play everything :D , and i guess thats a bit overly ambitious

Amen to that !

What sounds good :cool:

Your not alone. I wish I could play everything.
What is that saying --When in doubt....fake it?

But never overly ambitious. Never think that, where would Zapa be?

[mmcintosh]

dont worry man , it a emotion dont just play as many notes as you can, playing less is sometimes more look at slash now hes the man well thats my 10 cents worth peace out

[Superhuman]

Should you learn sweeping? Absolutely. If you are interested in learning to play the guitar proficiently you should try to master all techniques. If you are happy playing the way you do and are not that interested in exploring new avenues then don't bother.

As for advice on sweep picking, pick an arpeggio then work out the same notes in different positions. You will find that you can play the same arpeggio about 4 different ways in the same key. You will quickly discover which way suits you presonally - stick with that shape and keep practicing untill you get it. It takes time, took me about a year of solid playing to get a double octave arp licked and I was already playing for a good few years before that.

The sweep picking I use in the track in my sig file http://mp3unsigned.com/Showband.asp?id=4890 involves a number of different approaches/shapes, depending on the hand position from the previous group of notes. I particularly like stringing big arpeggio sections together during a lead part as it adds the bit of flair that floats my boat;-)

[jiujitsu_jesus]

Thanks, Superhuman. :) You've got some awesome tracks there, by the way!

[socram]

Never close any doors to any new technique or style :confused: , if you do you will never carry an original sound you will end up having this copycat sound. Learn it then change it to whatever you feel like, slow then fast etc. Sweep picking is one of the most challenging techiniques :mad: cause you have both hand and eye coordination and perfect execution. :eek: When I started learning it was challenging, but just take it slow then rip it up. Check out Benoit Nadeu's sweeping excercise it's on guitartricks.com it's called sweep picking 1 (yngwie malmsteen) or check www.ultimate-guitar.com under the video forums for sweep lessons well good luck !

[Akira]

Never close any doors to any new technique or style :confused: , if you do you will never carry an original sound you will end up having this copycat sound.

Cause and effect.

[myial]

i want a sweep exercise for my futher skills to improveOn the weekend, I got one of my first opportunities to jam on the guitar with a player other than my teacher. He was much better than me, so I mostly stuck to rhythm and let him play lead. Towards the end, though, he said that he wanted to try out a head that he'd come up with, so he switched to rhythm and asked me to improvise over it. So improvise, I did. He said that I was good (although I think he was just being kind), and he was surprised that I didn't know how to sweep arpeggios. He seemed to use a fair bit of sweep picking in his leads; he said that I should learn to sweep pick myself if I wanted to sound better. I don't know about this - I'm not much of a speed freak, and besides, I play fingerstyle, so I don't know whether it's even possible for me to sweep pick. What do you guys think - should I learn, or isn't it worth my while?

[Andrew Sa]

I agree...you should always try and learn new stuff...if sweep picking feels uncomforatble, I say play through it and learn until it feels natural...this is porgress (note: I dont mean physically uncomfortable...if anything hurts...stop doing it). Even if you dont use it often, it just adds something new to your bag of tricks...

[SweepFreak]

1.Sweeping without a pick is like tapping With a pick-very cheesy-no matter how many exceptions there may be.
2.Should you learn sweeps-well does a plumber come to your house with just a pipe wrench ? Or your cable guy with just a pair of pliers ? No. Every guitarist is only as good as their "toolbox".Context and using the right tool for the job are pivotal.Sweeps are just another tool.So yes,if for no other reason than diversification of knowledge and style you should learn sweeps,and a plethora of other techniques,and USE A PICK!!!!(at least medium gauge)
3.The longer you extend your arpeggios,the more fretboard coverage you achieve,the more flavor and originality you bring to a sweep,the better.
4.Almost every contemporary "relevant" guitarist of note use arpeggios in some fashion.Be it tapping,triad sequencing,or full-on 6 string extensions.Remember all music is comprised of scales and chords,an arpeggio is simply a chord whose notes are played individually,as opposed to in unison(harmony).I can't imagine even debating this issue.Sweeps are an essential part of a guitarists repetoire,no different than tapping,speed picking or phrasing.
5.Exercises are fun and useful in practice.However,listening to sweeps "in-action" in the context of a song are often the most instructive.For really great sweepers I suggest listening to Richie Kotzen,Tony MacAlpine,Jason Becker (Perpetual Burn),and of course Yngwie Malmsteen.I'm sure there are others I have accidentally omitted.

[Akira]

For really great sweepers I suggest listening to Richie Kotzen,Tony MacAlpine,Jason Becker (Perpetual Burn),and of course Yngwie Malmsteen.I'm sure there are others I have accidentally omitted.

I spent months learning the intro to Smoke and Mirrors by Symphony X and it improved my sweeping ten fold.

I wouldn't recommend that for a beginner at sweeping though, I'd start out with some simple major and minor 3 string sweeps first.

[jiujitsu_jesus]

Well, I tried sweeping, armed with everybody's wonderful advice :), but I couldn't seem to get into it. I was feeling a bit hung up about it - until yesterday, when I accidentally came up with a fingerstyle technique for playing arpeggios really smoothly. So, if I can develop that, I may not need to sweep! :eek:

[pure]

yeah jiujitsu, i'm with you. i figured since there's no way i'll ever be able to sweep good, i'll alternate pick the notes instead. alternate picking owns everything!

[Fret spider]

if u would like to be able to sweep dont give up, everyone is capable of it, it might take some longer than others but you will get there. i for example have been trying to sweep for about a year and i am about to get it now. considerring how much i pracitice that is ages. i think if you want it enough, and try hard enough, you will get it.

[ren]

if u would like to be able to sweep dont give up, everyone is capable of it, it might take some longer than others but you will get there. i for example have been trying to sweep for about a year and i am about to get it now. considerring how much i pracitice that is ages. i think if you want it enough, and try hard enough, you will get it.

Bingo.... it's all about persistence. Sweeps can be used tastefully, but I like to use them to show off.... :D Mix it up, play with soul and then let 'em have it with a ripping extended slide/sweep-tap arp.... mmmmm

Once you figure out that sweeping is easier if you use both hands to mute rather than just your picking hand, you'll be flying. Use a metronome to work the speed up and make sure you get all the notes... although if/when playing live and/or drunk, as long as you hit the bottom and top notes and get a few clicks in the middle no-one will know if you do it fast enough... just ask John Petrucci!

[jiujitsu_jesus]

Good Lord! Just when I'd given up hope of ever being able to sweep - I can finally do it! :eek:

Now I just have to make sure that I don't turn into Frank Gambale and play nothing else.