Guys, i need alittle help with my improv crap...

[Rothster02]

Ok, heres the deal. I've been playing for about a year and 3 months now and everyone says that i have become a decent player, excellent for the time ive been playing. But the thing is im getting bored of the same old crap, ive leaned tons of songs and its taking me no where. The thing is latley ive been interested in blues and jazz but i just cant seem to make any of my own stuff up, everything i do sounds like the same old funky rock stuff. I really really want to be able to make jazz band in school next year, but i dont know where to start and i was wondering if anyone could help me out with this. Im sure im ready for it, i know the regular scales, went through two and a half of those crappy ass mel bay books, i have speed enough to play some of the solos from zeppelin and hendrix, and im a fast learner. Sooooo...... if anyone could give me any suggestions i would really appreciate it, like ive said, i just seem to be in a dead end and i wanna learn this stuff so i can blow everyone away like ive been doing for the past year. Again, any suggestions, email me at Rothster02@hotmail.com

[Bardsley]

Are you going to read posts here? I would be happy to help, as I found myself in a very similar position (one that I am only now beginning to get out of), but if you only wan temails I wont spend ages writing stuff here if you are not rteading it.

[Rothster02]

Yea, im checking this board like twice a hour. Any info you have would help

[SteelSlider]

Hi Rothster02
I started out my music career playing Hawiiain music. For over three years, age 8 to 12. Nothing but.
A man who lived down the street from me wanted me to set in on some country songs with his band. I did.
Looking back those forty some years ago, I know they had a good laugh. Every country song I played sounded like it came from the Isands, with skirts included.
I really had a hard time cracking the mold I was in. That old man gave me a stack of records to listen to and a few words, "Don't listen to the stuff you don't wanna play for a while.
With in a month I was Waltzing through Texas with the Yellow Rose.
If your a rocker, and wanting to make the switch to blues or jazz, submerge yourself in that music. Listen over and over to the songs you like. I've played almost nothing but blues for over thirty years now, with a few exceptions, and when I made the switch from Hard Rock, I followed that old mans advice.
Listen to the licks, and turnarounds, they aren't anymore difficult than rock. Find a Blues scale and learn it, it's very simular to the pentatonic, very.
Check out the tab sites for some song you've got an interest in.
Hold your nose, and take the plunge. Just like learning a forgein language, total emersion.
Some lessons may help too. Lots of good blues teachers around.
Good luck.

[Bardsley]

Jazz playing is something that i believe highlights the improtance of theory. While we can spend too much time studying, and not enough playing, getting to know theory can do much for opening up your mind about what to play, and how to use your instrument. I have been reading a lot of Mark Levine's "Jazz Theory Book", which has been invaluable. Do you know your modes? Modes can be a very good way of learning about how to construct jazz solos, and can be a lifetime study. If you don't know, modes are derived from scales. With each scale - for instance, the major scale - we can find different modes, by starting a new scale on each note of the origianl. If we go from a C major to a D major, the intervals remain the same, but the notes are raised a tone. With modes, the notes remain the same, but the intervals are shifted to accommadate, if that makes sense. Thus, we have C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C as the original C major scale. THis is also the first mode of the C major scale. The second mode starts on D, keeping the notes within the C major scale, so we have D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D. And so on for each mode. NOte that this scale is different from D major, which is D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D. I don't know how much of this you already know, so I will stop a bit.
The names of each mode go like this.
1. Ionian
2. Dorian
3. Phrygian
4. Lydian
5. Mixolydian
6. Aeolian
7. Locrian.
Therefore, in C, we have: C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, etc.
Anyway, it is a good idea to practise playing the different modes of the major scale (to start with), and listening to the way they sound. Play the second mode (Dorian) of C (by starting on D), and compare it with the sound of the D major scale. What you are doing is playing D dorian, and D Ionian. This seems to be going a little in circles, but bear with me.
A lot of Jazz songs rely heavily on modes, as solos in jazz often revolve around individual chords in a song, rather than the overall key as in most rock music.
Now, there is so much to learn about application that I don't think I can even start to scratch the surface here, lwhat I have given you is an example of an area useful to practice. By incorporating different modes, and learning how to use them, you can break out of the more common pentatonic solos that sound cool in rock, but are limiting in jazz. That could be a major reason why you still sound rocky, you aren't utilising all your notes as wel as you could be. For lessons about modes, and how to apply them to chord changes, there are several good sites that you can check. http://www.wholenote.com has good articles and dicussions about modes frequently, and http://www.zentao.com/guitar/theory has great lessons about all sorts of stuff. There is a whole world of music out there, but it takes patience. If you already know what I am telling you, I'd be happy to go further, or if there is anyting in particular you would like to know, ask me, but there is so much to cover that I can't preempt. Hope some of this helps, and doesn't confuse or patronise you.

[Rothster02]

Thanks alot guys...

[Zeppelin]

hmmm i dont know if anyone said it till now
but learning arrpegios or whatever it spelled is really important to jazz playing... i dont know if you know what arrpegios are but basicly the idea is to take some chord and to play its notes one by one
for example C7
the notes of the chord are:
C E G Bb ,so you just have to play those notes like:

----------
----------
----------
---------8-
---7--10---
-8--------
offcorse when playing jazz you should use more "complicated chords but the idea is the same.. to do this right and good you should practice this technique on clean sound, and also to learn all the theory how the chords are build

[alexander1577]

Back in the early days of jazz, it was a very cultural music, something jazz people were exposed to constantly. However, through its evolution, it became very academic, especially in its theory. I had played rock and blues for almost ten years before I went to college, had lessons the whole time. But when I stepped foot in my first theory class, I was challenged. By the time I stepped in my third theory class (there are four, for a bachelor degree), I was getting stuffed and not having such a good time. There are alot of complicated lessons jazz players are expected to know. Complicated, because to staggering math (like the old V7b5#11alt chord and the 5 standard scales to improv alt chords with), and becuase for most of us, in the beginning, we didn't have anywhere to find the information we needed, and then someone who could spell it out in plain english!
I think the best thing to do, to save yourself a migraine headache, would probably be to go to the instructor of the jazz band and ask him what he would do. I'm sure he will have a lot of great advice. And, listen to the folks here in the forum- there's alot of great information and good people here.

Good luck.

[skee1]

Jazz Substitution chords ask your teacher about them.


Mark