Shred Guitar ? - what exactly is it

[Grambo]

Don't know ?

[Kevin Taylor]

Depends on who you ask.
Generally it usually means a guy who can play overdrive guitar with a bunch of scales and sweeps really quickly with no feeling in his playing whatsoever.

[Jolly McJollyson]

Depends on who you ask.
Generally it usually means a guy who can play overdrive guitar with a bunch of scales and sweeps really quickly with no feeling in his playing whatsoever.
Now now, Schmange, let's not be mean. I call the Moog Boog "shredding," but it's still a song with a strong melody and plenty of feeling.

[Kevin Taylor]

Well.. that's because I'm marvelous. :cool:

[Grambo]

Depends on who you ask.
Generally it usually means a guy who can play overdrive guitar with a bunch of scales and sweeps really quickly with no feeling in his playing whatsoever.

Thanks - I think I could be a natural ??????

[CW14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shredding_%28guitar_playing_technique%29

[Akira]

with no feeling in his playing whatsoever.

I'd disagree with that...

[ericthecableguy]

It's musical weightlifting. It means playing just about as fast as possible. Steve Vai and John Petrucci are a couple of the finer shreddies.

[CW14]

I'd disagree with that...
It really depends which shredders you are referring to. In a lot of cases, I'd agree with Schmange. There are a lot of amazing shredders with a great sense of melody though, Petrucci and Laiho to name just two.

[alucard0941]

yea guys, this is gonna be a paradox, but guitar can output feeling without bends.

Some beutiful melodic runs can impact the same feeling. Just look at classical music.

[CW14]

That's no paradox. You're right, theres more to feeling than just bending.

[Kevin Taylor]

Well, just like rock music, there's good and bad classical music.

I think the 'Shred' label just reminds people of so many beginner guitar players that sound exactly the same. They've spent 2 years learning nothing but scales as fast as they can play them. Meantime, they don't know anything about dynamics or the emotion that needs to go into music. They don't know any other forms of music or styles. There's no variety in their playing.
They're just inflating their ego with how fast they can play.
There's guys that post here that sometimes get into the 'who can play fastest' competition.
It's like.. great... but what else can you do?

[Superhuman]

Speed is not everything but it can certainly enhance a piece of music. Anyone who says that "shred" is emtionless has never listened to Vinnie Moore, John Petrucci, Joe Satriani (Surfing With The Alien era), Michael Romeo etc etc.
Shred is just a term for music that is faster than most can, or want to play, it doesnt have to be ultra fast from start to finish. People always bitch about this type of music but it's mostly though a lack of ability to play at the same level OR simply from not hearing what gifted players can produce.
There are greats in all styles. Fact is most guitarists only fiddle with scales no matter the style. 99% of most blues and jazz players sound like they are just playing up and down scales or rehashed phrases. There is a lot that can be learned from the above players with regard to composition, technical ability, soulful input, original phrasing and innovative ideas that I think most guitarists would benefit from.
This whole shred is stupid line of thinking can be just as easily aimed at any other style of music including the old composers. Paganini for example... not much different in approach than Yngwie Malmsteen's solos breaks (technically brilliant, great melodic struture but devoid of any emotion) but nobody seems to bash him.

[Jolly McJollyson]

Speed is not everything but it can certainly enhance a piece of music. Anyone who says that "shred" is emtionless has never listened to Vinnie Moore, John Petrucci, Joe Satriani (Surfing With The Alien era), Michael Romeo etc etc.
Shred is just a term for music that is faster than most can, or want to play, it doesnt have to be ultra fast from start to finish. People always bitch about this type of music but it's mostly though a lack of ability to play at the same level OR simply from not hearing what gifted players can produce.
There are greats in all styles. Fact is most guitarists only fiddle with scales no matter the style. 99% of most blues and jazz players sound like they are just playing up and down scales or rehashed phrases. There is a lot that can be learned from the above players with regard to composition, technical ability, soulful input, original phrasing and innovative ideas that I think most guitarists would benefit from.
This whole shred is stupid line of thinking can be just as easily aimed at any other style of music including the old composers. Paganini for example... not much different in approach than Yngwie Malmsteen's solos breaks (technically brilliant, great melodic struture but devoid of any emotion) but nobody seems to bash him.
I bash Paganini all the time. With the exception of a few compositions, he's a heap of junk.

[larryvan]

is to go insane while your playing to loose your self in the music to venture into space. to propel the trust out your guitar engine soft smooth hard or fast is is to explore new levels to shoot for the moon then mabey the sun into cosmos and know you just shreded

[alucard0941]

I dont have much respect for any guitarists who actually call themselves shredders.

If you noticed, no shred guitarists really puts the word shred into any of their interviews, songs, or comments.

Though there are unfortunate counter-examples such as Joe Stump, Rusty Cooley, Micheal Angelo Batio, ect.

The name Shred came from viewers watching people like Van-Halen ripping through the fingerboard and it looks like their shredding off the wood of the neck.
(haha,If you apply this theory to any type of guitar, I guess blues players are called benders... :p )

[Akira]

I dont have much respect for any guitarists who actually call themselves shredders.

Why's that exactly?

I never really labelled myself as a shredder until people started calling me a shredder, so I guess now I say i'm a "shredder".

[Superhuman]

Why's that exactly?

I never really labelled myself as a shredder until people started calling me a shredder, so I guess now I say i'm a "shredder".

Ditto to that Akira. It's just a word that means you play fast music. I don't mind saying I play "shred" at all.

[Kevin Taylor]

Just my own opinion, but I dont' consider Van Halen to be a shredder.
Nor Satriani or Vai for tha matter.
When I hear the term 'shredder' I think of a guy I saw at a guitar competition once.
Everybody else was playing these complex 5 minute solos that included a variety of different styles. Really great stuff. Then he comes along and basically goes nuts on the guitar running around the stage, playing scales as fast as he could, flying his hair around with the lights flashing. Meantime he's missing notes and he's really sloppy cause he just wants to look like a 'rocker'.
All his friends are cheering him on and applauding, but every other guitar player in the audience is sitting there, laughing their heads off.

[Akira]

Just my own opinion, but I dont' consider Van Halen to be a shredder.
Nor Satriani or Vai for tha matter.
When I hear the term 'shredder' I think of a guy I saw at a guitar competition once.
Everybody else was playing these complex 5 minute solos that included a variety of different styles. Really great stuff. Then he comes along and basically goes nuts on the guitar running around the stage, playing scales as fast as he could, flying his hair around with the lights flashing. Meantime he's missing notes and he's really sloppy cause he just wants to look like a 'rocker'.
All his friends are cheering him on and applauding, but every other guitar player in the audience is sitting there, laughing their heads off.

So what do you consider Satriani and Vai as?

[alucard0941]

Why's that exactly?

ahh mainly cause calling yourself a shredder is quite cocky in my opinion. But if someone else were to tell you, its a complement.

Its hard for me to explain... :confused:

Kinda like when Joe Stump has songs called NIGHT OF THE LIVING SHRED, and WHERE NO MAN DARE SHRED.
...its so damn cocky

[Kevin Taylor]

So what do you consider Satriani and Vai as?

Rock guitar players I guess.

[Superhuman]

ahh mainly cause calling yourself a shredder is quite cocky in my opinion. But if someone else were to tell you, its a complement.

Its hard for me to explain... :confused:

Kinda like when Joe Stump has songs called NIGHT OF THE LIVING SHRED, and WHERE NO MAN DARE SHRED.
...its so damn cocky


But... Joe Stump does kick ass when it comes to "shredding". I suppose he can afford to be cocky seeing as he teaches at Berklee and actually plays most of his work in one take, sometimes jammed through from start to finish. Not that all of his stuff is the easiest to listen to though...

[ericthecableguy]

Satch is an intelligent, melodic guitarist who rarely 'shreds' and has been given the unfortunate title of a 'Shredder'.

[Superhuman]

Still don't see the problem with the term shred... it's just like thrash, speed, death, power, grunge, neoclassical, nu etc...
Maybe I should just call the style I play "man with guitar" so as not to be prejudged...

[Blues_Man]

Satch is an intelligent, melodic guitarist who rarely 'shreds' and has been given the unfortunate title of a 'Shredder'.

Yeah I know, I'm a blues guitarist but I love listening and playing his music.
When I first heard of him, everybody said he was a shredder, so I wasn't looking forward to listen to him. Mainly because at the time my impression of a shredder was: plays fast, tons of scales= crapola! Wrong! His playing had so much more dimension than that to it! I was shocked! That is true though, the title shredder really kinda deflects some audiences.

[alucard0941]

Still don't see the problem with the term shred... it's just like thrash, speed, death, power, grunge, neoclassical, nu etc...
Maybe I should just call the style I play "man with guitar" so as not to be prejudged...
dude, what I said wasnt meant to be a fact or event a valid statement. I just said whatever I felt.

If it makes you feel any better, I consider myself a shredder. :rolleyes:

And I dont really care (even though I do like Stump myself), when he names his songs like that, no one will take him seriously.

[zoran the dark]

shredding means destroying :D

[pogohead]

Shredders the baddy in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Problem solved.

Michael Angelo once said those who put fast playing down do so because they can't play fast themselves.

There's some who call themselves shredders who suck (Great Kat anyone?) but you can't argue with players like Petrucci and Malmsteen. Even Herman Li from Dragonforce manages to astound me and they're not that big yet.

Can I just point out I hate jazz and think it's the most pointless excuse for not knowing what you're actually doing.

[fool4gibson]

Dragonforce is crazy.


personally i dont care if people call it shred it's just another name, and i think shred is amazing, anyone who can understand music enough to learn the scales, play that fast, and amaze me, hats off to you, pat on the back, because it takes talent to do that.

[CW14]

personally i dont care if people call it shred it's just another name, and i think shred is amazing, anyone who can understand music enough to learn the scales, play that fast, and amaze me, hats off to you, pat on the back, because it takes talent to do that.
IMO, you can teach a monkey to shred. You can't teach a monkey to be musical though, THAT takes talent.

I hate the word "shred" with a passion. It makes me think of a kid sitting in his bedroom playing scales and arpeggios back and forth at 250bpm, then coming onto an internet forum and telling everyone how fast he is. I'm not saying that's all there is to it... I just hate the term.

There's nothing wrong with playing fast, as long as there is a sense of melody aswell. Who wants to hear a barrage of pointless "blipping" noises?

is to go insane while your playing to loose your self in the music to venture into space. to propel the trust out your guitar engine soft smooth hard or fast is is to explore new levels to shoot for the moon then mabey the sun into cosmos and know you just shreded
That was a really awesome post :D

[Fretfire]

And I dont really care (even though I do like Stump myself), when he names his songs like that, no one will take him seriously.


I also like Stump myself, he really kicks ass. But no one take him seriously like what you've said because of the cocky titles of his songs or albums, (SURVIVAL OF THE FASTEST,WHERE NO MAN DARE SHRED, GUITAR DOMINANCE. etc)
I think people often times think of him as a guitarist who only play
for speed thats why no one takes him seriously. He is one of those who give "shredders" a bad reputation, Its better to let people say he is a shredder rather than self proclaiming it.

There's nothing wrong with playing fast, as long as there is a sense of melody as well. Who wants to hear a barrage of pointless "blipping" noises?

I agree to that, theres really nothing wrong with playing fast as long as there is a sense of melody and not for speed's sake. That's the main problem that's long been associated with shredding. Because there's a misconception before that "if you can't play fast, you are not good enough ". Certainly the result was a lot of guitar players especially beginners put premium on speed more than music itself. They dont mind how it sounds as long as it is done fast, and speed was used as a cover up to pretend they are good.

The sad fact was, It affected even the good talented guitarists who can play fast but at the same time melodic. Thats why Shred obtained a bad rap.
I think Shred guitar is really good if done in the right context and motive.

I think shred is amazing, hats off to you, pat on the back, because it takes talent to do that.

It is definitely the truth dude, Shredding realy requires a lot of TALENT.I know a lot who can read music and mastered music theory with a degree in music, but can't Shred. I hope Shred will soon gain respect by realizing its not just playing fast. I just hate it when people categorized Shred with wanking.

The Shredder puts melodic content first at the same time plays "naturaly" fast, now thats talent.....unlike the Wanker who moves his fingers very fast up and down the fretboard at 250 BPM with lots of distortion to hide his sloppy picking like FF :D ----> I hope some of you knows what Im talking about.

[Kevin Taylor]

Ok, so here's a question.
Is tapping considered to be shred?
You could easily do 300 bpm without even thinking about it.

[Fretfire]

Ok, so here's a question.
Is tapping considered to be shred?
You could easily do 300 bpm without even thinking about it.

en.wikipedia.org/Shred ---> the online dictionary says:

"In the context of an electric guitar, "Shredding" refers to a virtuosic, highly technical style of playing the instrument, as exemplified by the virtuosos of the eighties.
The style of shred guitar is strongly founded in technique and theory. Many shred gutiarists are extremely well versed in music theory and classical music. Much time is devoted to the development of technique through numerous exercises. A key practice tool is the metronome. Many virtuosic techniques displayed by "shredders" include sweep picking, Tapping, legato, alternate picking, string skipping, as well as a combination of the aforementioned techniques."

From that description, I can say Tapping is considered Shred (combination of the said techniques) .

But in my opinion even if its considered Shred, if tapping is done in bad taste and the main intention of a guitarist is too play as fast as possible and sacrifice the melodic content for speed's sake, then I can call it WANK or wanking. ;)

[CW14]

A lot of us seem to have different interpretations of the term "shred".

I've always thought of it as just another word for "playing fast", but many people see it as a musical style invloving very technical guitar work. Nothing wrong with it, but why not just call it rock?

...And I agree that Joe Stump's song names are ridiculous :D

[alucard0941]

Its hard to define shred. Technically speaking, (note-by-note) a chord is the fastest flury of notes. It so fast, that it sounds like one note. Yet, we all know that we stum down or up which causes tiny miliseconds between each string.

...and by goin by raw definiton, a chord is the fastest way of playing notes. BUT!!!, no one thinks of that as shredding.

Its hard to define is cause there are no real guildlines to go by. In the 70's shredding was Ace Frehley, Jimmy Page. In the 80's it was Van Halen, Malmsteen, Kirk Hammet, and every Hair metal guitarist. In the 90's it was like John Petrucci, Micheal Romeo, Stevi Vai.

And now in the 2000's, we have people like Rusty Cooley, Ferrai, and sickly fast people who when we hear them, we would never never conider a person like Van Halen to be in the same category.

[alucard0941]

Yea I never really considered Shred a genra, just an adjective. The genra is Metal as far as I see it...

You can say someone is shredding, but you cant say someone is bluesing.

[pogohead]

I wouldn't say tapping isn't considered in the shredding itinerary. As far as most good shredding goes, its scales that are played up and down using alternate picking and sweep picking.

I only think shredding's any good if its accurate. If the right hand's picking faster than the left hand's moving then its sloppy and sounds appauling. Also the ones that just play the scales up and down with no particular order and no feeling sound crap too and on that score I will completely agree with Schmange, but there's no denying that Mr Lannerback et al. add a lot of feeling into their playing, with some good emotive bending, vibrato and melody which is often followed by some well thought out, accurate shredding. That, to me is completely what it's all about and anyone who makes out to be a good guitarist without balancing all these elements is not worth listening to. I like to hear it fast, but I don't like to hear it constant and noisy.

[Leedogg]

Satch is an intelligent, melodic guitarist who rarely 'shreds' and has been given the unfortunate title of a 'Shredder'.

Vai too! !

[Akira]

Vai too! !

Vai shreds, but he isn't a shredder.

[ericthecableguy]

You guys are completely right.

About the tapping thing: It can do amazing things when used in the context of songs like 'always with me, always with you' and in John Petrucci's heart-wrenching solo in 'Hollow years' off the 'Live at Budokan' DVD.

[Cryptic Excretions]

I shred when I need to shred and I slow down when the song calls for it. I don't really consider myself to be the one to decide what I do next in music. I consider it the song's decision and what it tells me to do, per se. So if I'm writing something and shredding just seems absurd then I'll look elsewhere. But I don't consider shredding to have no feeling, because sometimes it's needed. And when it's needed there's nothing else that can be done. So call me a shredder if you like. I'm not too worried about it to be honest.

[capohead]

..........................................

Can I just point out I hate jazz and think it's the most pointless excuse for not knowing what you're actually doing.

Au contraire matey. You might not like jazz but jazz players do know what they're doing. They have a much more comprehensive understanding of scales, harmony and melody than many other musicians.

Shredding personally leaves me cold. I can appreciate the technique but boy is it boring :D I need songs not tuneless widdlings. Steve Vai played his best stuff with Dave Lee Roth (as did Van Halen imo). Dave Lee brought out the human side of their playing, still amazing technique but with a sense of purpose and a sense of humour. Not technique for technique's sake.

Extreme speed is not some modern phenomena either. It is an extension of the virtuoso playing of classical musicians like Paganini and Chopin who understood that being a showman was just as important as what was being played.

You can follow the path through to the be bop techniques of players like Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker - stupendously fast playing (still leaves me cold though :D )

Horses for courses.

Cheers

Dick

[pogohead]

Wondered if anyone'd say anything about that :D

A few friends of mine are jazz players. I personally used to be in a jazz band but I didn't like it. Admittedly to be able to improvise like that you need more theory than other styles but I like having some kind of structure, thats why if I do play fast over a heavy backing, it's not all over the place, theres some function to it and I'm much more likely to aim for the early Van Halen style than anything by Yngwie. Plus, John Thompson has made it impossible for me to ever take jazz seriously again (Nice! Nice!) :D

[feenix dude]

Jazz players ( i have to agree) are usually very well versed in scales and modes.....BUT, that doesnt mean that one cannot 'shred' better if they knew those same things. Ive been a guitarist most my life but wasnt until recently too versed in modes and some music theory. It turned out to be the missing ingredient. Take a Jazz player and make him into a hard rocker and watch out for the best shredder youve ever seen. (personally i hate jazz)

[Cryptic Excretions]

Wondered if anyone'd say anything about that :D

A few friends of mine are jazz players. I personally used to be in a jazz band but I didn't like it. Admittedly to be able to improvise like that you need more theory than other styles but I like having some kind of structure, thats why if I do play fast over a heavy backing, it's not all over the place, theres some function to it and I'm much more likely to aim for the early Van Halen style than anything by Yngwie. Plus, John Thompson has made it impossible for me to ever take jazz seriously again (Nice! Nice!) :D
But where's the fun if you know what's going to happen next?

[ericthecableguy]

Joe Pass does some serious rippin'

[Superhuman]

I know nobody here likes Francesco Farerri (me included) but he plays shred with a similar approach to most jazz musicians (most people don't know this but he improvs everything). I think both sound boring without any structured ideas behind the improv... just a collection of ups and downs... He seems to capture what most people hate about the 'shred' genre... however, most players who love 'shred' music do not like Farerri...
Some jazz players are amzing though, I actually consider them to be shredders that play with a different tone and alternative set of scales. Alex Skolnick is an example of an excellent shredder who turned to jazz... but his jazz stuff just doesnt do it for me. Too much theoretical meanderings rather focusing on what actually sounds good to the ear.

[g----rant]

personally i don't believe in shred.

the way i see it, every great guitarist can play fast, some choose to and some choose not to, jimi page plays what could be considered "shred" when he plays white summer/black mountain side, but althoug he plays really blisteringly fast, he sets a mood that changes throughout the song.
EVH always keeps thing lively with the way he innovates most of his solos live, and randy rhoads amazed everybody with his amazing pasion that flowed through every note, whether he played 20 per second or not.
Joe satriani and steve vai take people into worlds of fantasy through the way they play their guitars, listening to their songs like searching and whispering a prayer, both of which have unbelievable technique in them, make u feel a certain mood as you are listening.

There is no such thing as shred, there are just many great players who utelise their speed to reach the audience in their own special way.

Page sent them to different nations, eddie kept them on the edge of their seats, randy made them cry then scream for more, vai and satch send people to the edge of their imaginations and then further, all through the use of flurries of notes played rapidly, and people define shred is emotionless?

if shred is anything, it is using speed to enhance an emotion to the extent that it becomes overwhelming.

but hey, wat do i know, i'm only 16 :cool:

catch yas,

g---rant i,,i_

[zoran the dark]

Anyone cares of Mark Tremonti?

he SHREDS LIKE A MONSTER

[alucard0941]

yea sometimes I think Jazz guitar doesent sound all that great. Its very theoretical and doesnt not break any rules of music, therefore it should sound good. But for some reason, I think being that orthodox is somewhat of a restriction from expressive music. Though I am a strong belive in music theory and Im on an improvising flick right now, when your always caught up in what scale should follow a progressing and always following certain rules (circle of 5ths, ect), it kinda ruins the fun. And that may be a reasons why Jazz guitar (not sax, I love all sax) sometimes sounds odd, weird, and by to book.

...I donno, alot of people may not agree cause its hard for me to explain what Im trying to say.

[Fenderalltheway]

Ok this is all I'm gana say. I think shredding is crazy, but still sometimes good. And for the whole Jazz argument, if you play one style of music, you might think that another style is pointless and stupid. See all, country, Jazz, rock, classical, blues, and everything else, they all are music. Wheather you like them or not...well....thats up to you.

[yugoslavianpunk]

Can I just point out I hate jazz and think it's the most pointless excuse for not knowing what you're actually doing.[/QUOTE]

!?!?!?!?! Jazz guitarists know what they are doing more than other guitarists. Try to do what they do!

[jiujitsu_jesus]

Playing lead guitar is about composing music spontaneously, and the key to creating a memorable solo is to consider its structure within the context of the piece's melody, rhythm, beat, and general mood and tone. The main difference between shred guitar and other styles is that shred can potentially throw these considerations out the window, and allow the player to simply focus on spiralling up and down scales at breakneck speed; it is at this point that shred becomes meaningless wankery. Granted, there are highly accomplished "shredders" (eg. Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Marty Friedman) who incorporate the aforementioned considerations into their highly technical scalar approach to playing, and they deserve all the accolades they get. What brings shred down in the eyes of many guitarists is the vast body of shredders who learned to play lead guitar by copying Kirk Hammett's widdly bits, and produce solos by replicating these sections in the appropriate key (Zakk Wylde being the chief culprit).
Shred is fine, as long as utmost restraint is exercised when playing it.