Seeking tips for economy recording rig

[1Way]

I'm getting to the point where I want to do some recording, just me (guitarist) and either my drummer friend and/or backing tracks for practicing and such, but I don't want to make the mistake of jumping into a technology and field that I know next to nothing about. I've been dealing in computers for a long time, and the one thing that I don't want is a lot of
- hardware
- and software
- and compatibility
hassles. If it was all analog this quest would be pretty simple, but since everything has to plug into the computer, then things get complicated and messy quickly.

I will be running WindowsXP Pro and SUSE Linux 9.0. But I can't find my XP code number.
Q1
Anyone know what I can do about that? Will Microsoft help me out there?

I want to end up being able to post sound samples online, so it would be good to end up with MP3 files.
Q2
Is that right? Or are their other or better file formats to target?

Q3
Can I do all the recording into my computer? Or are the hardware struggles going that route to problematic, like some systems skipping during recording or playback for example?

Q4
Should I go for a stand alone hardware recorder that also has computer access?

- I want the best most reliable and hassle free recording
- for the least amount of money.
I'm thinking in terms of $500 and lower (if possible).

[1Way]

Loops and Lick Learner
I forgot to mention. If it also had the ability to do loops (stack loops without getting muddy) and/or lick learner type function, i.e. change the tempo or pitch independently or together, that would be awesome.
:cool:

[1Way]

I got the mag and two CD's! I was hoping for more blues content, but it seems top notch. And the backing tracks are really awesome!

[markc2005]

A3 Iv read about pod xt i think n they can be plugged into a usb port directly for recording and adding effects and stuff like that, im guessing all the software will come with the product and that it will be compatible with win xp as long as it has usb.
theres another thread somewhere that says something about a peice of equipment that does the same thing using firewire.
Alternativly you could use a eight track or 4 track and record through the line in on your pc the quality of sound will depend on your soundcard. Or you could record onto a minidisc.
All recording can be done on pc and edited
A1 i dont think you will need you win xp code other than to install win xp if you need to install winxp there are places where u can get serial numbers lol you shouldnt have to type a windows serial number into anything that isnt windows.
A2 mp3 files are good, they are versitile they can be edited and more importantly are the most common music fille format so shouldnt be a problem for anyone to lisen to stick with mp3.
A4 I thinks a pod is your best bet

[1Way]

markc2005
I don't want a PODxt as I don't want nor need any effects, nor does the PODxt have a stand alone recorder, so I think you are sort of confusing things. The only thing the PODxt has that I'm interested in, is it has a computer link/interface, but just about everything has that.

I'm mostly concerned about actually doing the recording and editing. Basically I want to be able to record remotely, and then optionally bring it back home to do final editing on the PC, or just use whatever editing functions on the unit itself. Having a
- Looping function,
- Lick Learner
- Mic effects
- Greater than 2 simultaneous recording inputs
are all desirable too.

I've thought about buying a decent multi-track cassette recorder and then find a way to download that into the computer, but like you say, the resulting sound quality may suffer depending upon the PC and sound card and all that, plus then I'd have to buy some sort of software to handle the editing and stuff. I'd rather go with more recent digital technology to help eliminate sound quality issues.

[markc2005]

ok sorry if i was confusing things, im not a recording experts i was just trying to offer some ideas.
The only rec. equipment iv use is a minidisc recorder (1 input) plugged into a pa (8 inputs 4 out i think)i think with all the mics and instrument pluged into that, i know there is equipment that can write minidiscs to cds that you could rip onto cd or just use a minidisc player plugged into a pc i think. Altenatly i use a Roland v (records 10 inputs seperatly i think) something that records straight onto a internal hardrive and then can record onto cd or dvd, that is a pretty versitile and expensive peice of equipment.
And finaly a pc mike infront of a speaker. Extremly low quality.
sory but this is pretty much everything i know about recording

[Dr_simon]

Have you looked at a second hand Korg D1200 ?

[1Way]

Since I think I'm pretty much set for PC recording, I'm interested in finding out more about little digital recording devices, like the MD for example. I saw one that has a stereo input, so I bet I could hook up two mics into that input, which might be fine for the time being. So, what is the benefit of going with an MD verses other sorts of recording storage media? I wonder if an iPod might work?

[markc2005]

oooo i do know a bit about ipods lol, this might interest u i dont know but ipods can record directly through the head phones socket at upto 98khz
to do it you will need to install something called podzilla onto it (it does not need the expensive apple or belkin recording attatchment which only records at 8khz), i think it records stereo, i know it works because i use it ocasionally with my ipod
podzilla is free and all the downloads and instuctions can be found by searching on google

[iamthe_eggman]

Since I think I'm pretty much set for PC recording, I'm interested in finding out more about little digital recording devices, like the MD for example. I saw one that has a stereo input, so I bet I could hook up two mics into that input, which might be fine for the time being. So, what is the benefit of going with an MD verses other sorts of recording storage media? I wonder if an iPod might work?

MD is not lossless recording... dunno how much of a purist you are, but I would never use it for anything more than recording jams or ideas.

My MD recorder has a stereo input, so it can actually accept a stereo mic. I've also plugged a small mixer into it and recorded a few mics at once on one track.

[1Way]

markc2005

Wow, come on, tell me more!

Can it do a loud music jam session without clipping all over the place? I need to be able to record a band practice/jam...

[1Way]

eggman
They say the HI-MD is improved greatly, I think they say it approaches CD quality.

[markc2005]

the prrogram you download is called podzilla and it installs a linux operating system onto your ipod, when instaling it asks which system you want as your normal startup system, i use the ordianary ipod op sys. My 2nd gen ipod when its booting shows the apple logo then a picture of a penguin, holding down menu and rewind boot it into linux.
recording option,
a selection of quialities from 8khrz to 98khrz and line in or microphone input (i dont know what the dirrefance is) the files are reorded as wav files and can bve played back in linux mode but not in ipod mode, all playlists can be played back in linux mode but there is some loss of the origional quality and it has to buffer each song before playing,
ALL MUSIC PLAYS CORRECTLY IN IPOD MODE
recorded files can be found n a recording folder on the ipod.

[1Way]

Mark
You said the files are reorded as wav files and can bve played back in linux mode but not in ipod mode, all playlists can be played back in linux mode but there is some loss of the origional quality and it has to buffer each song before playing,
ALL MUSIC PLAYS CORRECTLY IN IPOD MODE
Which is it, the recored files have to be played back in Linux, not iPod mode, or all plays correctly in iPod mode?

I'm interested in recording in a loud environment, would you please specify your mic and volume level and how well it works? Thanks!

[markc2005]

oh ryt sorry about the confusion, ipods when they are in ordinary ipod mode can only play music which has been imported onto them using itunes and there is no skipping or jumping. The wav files that have been recorded in linux cannot be played in ipod mode untill they have bee added to the itunes music library on a pc however all music on the ipod can be played in linux but do not play as well ie jumps, skipps.
As for the mic and voume levels im affraid you will just have to experiment as all i have tried using is a computer microphone infront of my practice amp on quite a low setting sorry

[1Way]

Mark
Wow, this is very cool. I don't have an iPod, but if this Linux thing works, it could end up saving me a large hassle and expense verses getting into a multitrack recorder and all. I would really like to know more about the functionality of all this. Maybe you could help me with some specific questions.

Does the iPod Linux software have any sort of mic level or recording level control?

Are there any other controls besides selecting the sampling rate, like EQ, or filtering?

How loud can you record with your setup before the recording becomes bogus, i.e. flabby, muddy, distorted, etc.?

I know that's a subjective question, describing a volume level, but some sort of news about this issue is much better than no news. The playback itself need not be really loud, especially through the iPod. As long as the playback sounds "reasonably" clear and faithful to the original sound, I can always adjust volume levels later. I'm sending you a PM, and thanks much for this info!
:cool:

[markc2005]

the recording menu screen is simply
mic record
line in record
playback
sample rate (8,32,44.1,88.2,96 khz)
there is no filtering or eq in linux but it may be added if they make a new version i dont know. you can use a pc for all that anyway.
i have no idea how loud, im going to try recording some stuff now so ill get back too ya in a bit

[1Way]

Man, I've been scanning some digital media recorders. They are more expensive than MP3 players, but they have way more disk space and some offer high quality audio recording... I like NewEgg's selection.

Check out Archos at $350 and $510 (page 5&6) for some interesting gizmos.
CLICK HERE (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?submit=PROPERTY&SubCategory=23&bop=and)
And Archos start at about $250 with same higher quality audio recording specs. I suggest looking at the first feature heading for Audio Recording Format Very slick stuff.

[1Way]

Also, I'm wondering about a very small stand alone (stereo or mono) and economical recorder, like a
- HI-MD
- or a Hard Drive recorder,
to do live remote digital recording with a premium on ease of setup and perhaps battery operation. I'd definitely go for a
- flash recorder,
however, with the exception of two very expensive units (Edirol and 24/96), they all seem to be a lower recording quality "voice recorder". Any Flash recorder suggestions that might be able to do the job for way less than $400USA would be appreciated.

I've heard that you can unlock a cripple in Apple iPods by uploading a (mini) Linux program (podzilla?) that allows you to boot into Linux or iPod's native bootup. While booted to Linux, you can record at different sample rates (8,32,44.1,88.2,96 khz) thru the headphone jack! But to play it back correctly, you need to inport the music thru the iPods native transport for quality playback. I don't mind the hassle of record/upload to PC/download to iPod, in order to hear it correctly on the iPod, so maybe this would work out.

I'd also like recommendations for a quality mic, one that has either a 1/8" or 1/4" jack.

This is for doing live shows/jams/practice sessions, i.e. fairly loud music stuff. And should I think about a mic preamp, for this micro recording station?

[markc2005]

just like to say about the ipod linux, the program is still in very early stages and for some reason when i tried it the recording quality broke down after about 15 seconds, dont know if its the same for all ipods.
Second thing if you do install it be very careful i acidently canceled it halfway through the installation and it caused loads of problems including the thing just not working at all.

good luck

[1Way]

Mark
I'm very sorry to hear that. Is there a chance to correct things somehow? Let us know how your coming along.

I just picked up a cool item from iriver. It's the T30 1gb flash MP3 player/recorder and it rocks. It's got USB 2.0, headphones and line in for recording from any source, no PC needed. If using a microphone, evidently you need one that is self powered or something that brings the signal up to line level. However it also records surprisingly well with the internal mic.

I saw this item online for ~$130, so I'll be seeing Best Buy for a price match or else a return, mine was $169.99. It is so small it's nuts. I'm recording a CD to it right now through the line in jack. Works great!

I wish it showed you what settings are which sampling rates, instead they just say, hi, med, low for the recording quality. But, when you play them back, and you go to adjust the volume, the LED display shows that it's an MP3 320k 44khz! Not sure what those numbers exactly mean.

MINI PREAMP
I've seen small mini mic stereo preamps w/two mini mics go for like $69-99 on ebay. That's 2-mics and one 9volt preamp that outputs to line level, w/two different boost levels. Still checking out options.

[1Way]

Mark
I'm very sorry to hear that. Is there a chance to correct things somehow? Let us know how your coming along. Please let us know how things are coming along, and thanks again for doing so much to try to help.

I'm somewhat less impressed with the T30, seems more like a decent mini voice recorder, I don't like the awkwardness and feel of the control buttons.

[markc2005]

erm fixed my ipod took a week of being very pissed off and cos it broke once while trying to do it iv not ried since because i get better recordings on my pc and it was too much messing about using my ipod soz m8 i might try agen when a newer version of the linux softwar is released

[1Way]

Wow, I hear you, and thanks for the update. Good to hear that things improved! I too am going to record on PC and go from there. It's interesting stuff, but cracks are not always the safest route I suppose. Sorry about the hassle for our sake! If we didn't talk about it, I've heard that the newer generation iPods may not work right with the Linux boot as they may have done more crippling, I think it works best on 1st-3rd generation iPods (maybe 4th gen?), if I recall correctly it was excluding the latest generation, which I think is 5th generation (not sure which is the latest mass produced generation). Even then, it might work, but the testers hadn't tried that generation out yet...

Best wishes, and happy holidays!!!

[markc2005]

no prob m8 will keep you informed f i try anything new, iv read about the new gen ipods not working on linux yet im sure it will be sorted out tho lol think its 5th the video one!!
merry xmas !!

[capohead]

Forget about ipods and all that bollox, just get a small digital recorder like one of these http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/options.php?id=67951 or one of these http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/options.php?id=8935

You can always put the stuff on PC with USB and then mix from there.

Cheers

Dick