continuation of the tuning down leads to less solos or none at all thread

[griefwearsgray]

since they closed the other thread, and the discussion wasnt over, i feel it neccesary to start a new one.

i cant tell you if the thing about snipe recording with cobain is true or not, but i do know that michael snipe got kurts jag-stang after he was so brutally murdered.

"Can't say I can relate 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' to Boston or REM, but, "the secret of originality is knowing how to cover your sources", so who knows?!" who can argue with an opinion? if you ask me, it sounds like boston. if i ask you, it doesnt. thats the beauty of being an individual. and i totally agree with the "covering your sources" thing. thats been done for generations.

please continue the thread about lower tuning and solos. it wasnt finished. please post.

thanks guys.

[PonyOne]

....Stipe.

[Jolly McJollyson]

after he was so brutally murdered.
While this is an ambiguous pronoun, I'll assume you're talking about Cobain. I'm pretty sure he killed himself, dude. In fact, I'm 100% positive.

[tehplatypus]

While this is an ambiguous pronoun, I'll assume you're talking about Cobain. I'm pretty sure he killed himself, dude. In fact, I'm 100% positive.

http://www.cobaincase.com/

[griefwearsgray]

....Stipe.

my bad. thanks man.

[griefwearsgray]

While this is an ambiguous pronoun, I'll assume you're talking about Cobain. I'm pretty sure he killed himself, dude. In fact, I'm 100% positive.

it is a fact that there is enough evidence to change his case from a suicuide to an undetermined. but, the seattle pd doesnt want to admit they made a mistake.

i thought it was a cool word too.

[Willdridge]

I missed something there...why was the last thread closed?

Having not seen any of the actual evidence, I'm prepared to sit on the fence and accept both possibilities. I do find it odd that he was quoted as saying he'd "never been happier" not that long before he died, (Kerrang!), but equally he suffered from chemical depression, so it is highly plausible that something snapped and it was suicide.

Depending on which side you're on, there's only one, or a few, who know the truth; he's not here, and they probably would never tell, whichever the case may be.

My appologise for "Snipe" - I blame my stupid-fingers!

[Akira]

since they closed the other thread, and the discussion wasnt over, i feel it neccesary to start a new one.

please continue the thread about lower tuning and solos. it wasnt finished. please post.

Dude, one thing you do not do is continue a closed thread, it was closed for a reason.

[Akira]

Having said that, I don't think tuning down leads to less solo's.

Symphony X tune down; they have plenty of solo's.

I do however think that in the mainstream, solo's don't seem to be as popular as they were 10 or 20 years ago.

[Jolly McJollyson]

Having said that, I don't think tuning down leads to less solo's.

Symphony X tune down; they have plenty of solo's.

I do however think that in the mainstream, solo's don't seem to be as popular as they were 10 or 20 years ago.
Exactly. Correlation does not prove causality.

[Willdridge]

Symphony X tune down; they have plenty of solo's.


Good example - and Zakk Wylde's been know to tune down every now and then.

I can't remember what I put in the last thread, but I'll just say I agree with Akira - tuning down doesn't lead to lack of solo's; a change in the kind of music people want to hear does though...There's a lot of non-mainstream band's that still solo - if you want solo's, look for those bands - whether you buy their albums, download them, (from legitimate sites, of course... :) ) or see them live...I don't think we're in an age anymore where radio dictate's what's "hot or not".

Out of interest, what do people class "mainstream" as? Is it the stuff you hear on the radio, or is it when bands become popular enough that people outside of the genre fan base start listening, or is it something else?

[griefwearsgray]

the last one couldve been closed for any number of reasons. i think i couldve been one of them, but enough about that. still not really sure.

its cool about your fingers. as long as you can play, who cares if you can type.

if you go to other threads, tell people about this one, because its not that known to my knowledge. thank ya.

[pogohead]

what about pantera and damageplan? dimebag always detuned and you cant complain about his solo work ;)

[griefwearsgray]

Good example - and Zakk Wylde's been know to tune down every now and then.

I can't remember what I put in the last thread, but I'll just say I agree with Akira - tuning down doesn't lead to lack of solo's; a change in the kind of music people want to hear does though...There's a lot of non-mainstream band's that still solo - if you want solo's, look for those bands - whether you buy their albums, download them, (from legitimate sites, of course... :) ) or see them live...I don't think we're in an age anymore where radio dictate's what's "hot or not".

Out of interest, what do people class "mainstream" as? Is it the stuff you hear on the radio, or is it when bands become popular enough that people outside of the genre fan base start listening, or is it something else?


doesnt zakk use bass strings on one of his guitars? i heard this, but im not saying its true.

uh mainstream, i think its the 2nd one, but its anyones guess.

[griefwearsgray]

Dude, one thing you do not do is continue a closed thread, it was closed for a reason.


thanks mom. for whatever reason it was closed, it doesnt matter. the point is you dont walk away from a conversation right in the middle. i dont, anyway.

[Akira]

thanks mom. for whatever reason it was closed, it doesnt matter. the point is you dont walk away from a conversation right in the middle. i dont, anyway.

One thing I really hate is being patronised.

Please refrain from doing so in the future.

[3fingeredblues]

http://www.cobaincase.com/


And I was on the "grassy knoll" in Dallas in '62.......

[3fingeredblues]

Now, as to the original post-

I do not beleive that tuning down has led to less guitar solos. Van Halen was often tuned down at least a half step, and often in dropped D, Dimebag Darrell was almost exclusively in dropped-D tuning, Tony Iommi was tuned down to C or C#, John Petrucci play a lot of dutuned stuff, Steve Vai, Stevie Ray Vaugh was allways tuned down.

I think the lack of solos can be attributed to the affect that Kurt Cobain had on popular music. He influenced a generation of players that followed his style, which didn't include guitar solos. During the 90's you were actually jeered at in a lot of places for even *trying* to solo, and that discouraged a lot of folks from even trying. I think however, as players mature nowadays, that they will realize that there are other fun and meaningfull ways to express yourself than 3 or 4 powerchords, which is funny to me, because it used to be that the younger players needed to mature before they realized that the're are more ways to express yourself and have fun besides blazing out a million notes.

Therefore, I would say tuning down has nothing to do with a lack of solos in today's "popular" music, but rather that it was just a reflection of the times and current trends.

That's my sory and I'm stickin' to it :p

[Willdridge]

Now, as to the original post-

I do not beleive that tuning down has led to less guitar solos. Van Halen was often tuned down at least a half step, and often in dropped D, Dimebag Darrell was almost exclusively in dropped-D tuning, Tony Iommi was tuned down to C or C#, John Petrucci play a lot of dutuned stuff, Steve Vai, Stevie Ray Vaugh was allways tuned down.

I think the lack of solos can be attributed to the affect that Kurt Cobain had on popular music. He influenced a generation of players that followed his style, which didn't include guitar solos. During the 90's you were actually jeered at in a lot of places for even *trying* to solo, and that discouraged a lot of folks from even trying. I think however, as players mature nowadays, that they will realize that there are other fun and meaningfull ways to express yourself than 3 or 4 powerchords, which is funny to me, because it used to be that the younger players needed to mature before they realized that the're are more ways to express yourself and have fun besides blazing out a million notes.

Therefore, I would say tuning down has nothing to do with a lack of solos in today's "popular" music, but rather that it was just a reflection of the times and current trends.

That's my sory and I'm stickin' to it :p

Cobain didn't solo?....ermm...'Smells Like Teen Spirit', 'Come As You Are', 'All Appologise', 'You Know You're Right', 'Man Who Sold The World'...I can go on if need's be...

I agree with everything else you've said there - but I do contest that Kurt solo'd, and inspired equally as many guitarists to be lead players rather than just strummers...

[3fingeredblues]

Contest it all you want Will, but those are not guitar solos in the classic sense. At least not mine, or most peoples definition of a solo. They are simple melodies that in most cases cary on the vocal melody, and a lot of times were just sheer noise. I would contest anybody saying Kurt ever played a genuine solo. So there :p hehhehheh

And I would be very curious if you could name anyone that has gone on record saying that Kurt inspired them to become a great soloist.....

Maybe out of a backlash against him, but not because of a direct inspiration because of his otherworldly talents as a soloist.

Enough of Kurt....I will go on record as saying I didn't like Nirvana when they were new, and I don't now. Nothing is EVER going to change my mind on that...I thought "HOLE" was better....LMAO

can't wait for the replies on that one! :D

[Jolly McJollyson]

Contest it all you want Will, but those are not guitar solos in the classic sense. At least not mine, or most peoples definition of a solo. They are simple melodies that in most cases cary on the vocal melody, and a lot of times were just sheer noise. I would contest anybody saying Kurt ever played a genuine solo. So there :p hehhehheh
So George Harrison never played any solos?

[3fingeredblues]

Are you comparing George Harrison to Kurt Cobain?!? That's almost as bad as the Hendrix/Cobain thread...

George was a wonderfully talented songwriter and multi-instrumenalist. Would I call him a soloist? Not in the veign of Beck, Page, or Clapton, but he could pull out some creative stuff as far as solos go, wrote a lot of great songs, and was allways in tune. He's one of my all time favorites. Especially his very distinctive slide playing. I've never heard anyone sound like George on slide. Plenty try to cop Duane Allman, but I don't think many try to cop on George 'cause his playing was a little "outside" compared to other "western" players, and I would attribute that to his studies with Ravi Shankar, and his passion for Hawaiin ukelele.

[HDJ]

I haven't participated on this thread, but I did read the thread that was closed, and I am curious as to why it was closed.....

[Jolly McJollyson]

Are you comparing George Harrison to Kurt Cobain?!? That's almost as bad as the Hendrix/Cobain thread.
Yes I am. How is it "bad?" You accused Cobain of playing solos that were merely continuations of the melody. Since Harrison built an entire career on it, I'm asking you to justify your statement since you seem to think George Harrison is a good guitarist (a sentiment I agree with).

[3fingeredblues]

Yes I am. How is it "bad?" You accused Cobain of playing solos that were merely continuations of the melody. Since Harrison built an entire career on it, I'm asking you to justify your statement since you seem to think George Harrison is a good guitarist (a sentiment I agree with).


Re-read my previous post. I allready justified my argument.

And yes, I do consider it "bad".

Again, re-read my previous posts.

3FB

[Jolly McJollyson]

Re-read my previous post. I allready justified my argument.

And yes, I do consider it "bad".

Again, re-read my previous posts.

3FB
I did. You justified nothing but his ability to play sitar.

[3fingeredblues]

Yes I did make justification. But since you didn't get it the first time, or the second time, I will try for a third....if you still don't "get it", I give up......

George was a wonderfully talented songwriter and MULTI-INSTRUMENTALIST Would I call him a SOLOIST? NOT in the VEIGN of Beck, Page, or Clapton, but he could pull out some CREATIVE STUFF AS FAR AS SOLOS GO, wrote a lot of great songs, and was ALLWAYS IN TUNE. He's one of my all time favorites. Especially his VERY DISTINCTIVE SLIDE PLAYING. I've never heard anyone sound like George on slide. Plenty try to cop Duane Allman, but I don't think many try to cop on George 'cause HIS PLAYING was a little "OUTSIDE" compared to other "WESTERN" players, and I would attribute that to his studies with Ravi Shankar, and his passion for Hawaiin UKELELE.


Never once, untill now, did I mention the word "SITAR", although he was talented and proficient on that instrument as well.

I hope that makes my thoughts clear enough for you. It almost seems that we are talking two different languages.......

[Jolly McJollyson]

Yes I did make justification. But since you didn't get it the first time, or the second time, I will try for a third....if you still don't "get it", I give up......

George was a wonderfully talented songwriter and MULTI-INSTRUMENTALIST Would I call him a SOLOIST? NOT in the VEIGN of Beck, Page, or Clapton, but he could pull out some CREATIVE STUFF AS FAR AS SOLOS GO, wrote a lot of great songs, and was ALLWAYS IN TUNE. He's one of my all time favorites. Especially his VERY DISTINCTIVE SLIDE PLAYING. I've never heard anyone sound like George on slide. Plenty try to cop Duane Allman, but I don't think many try to cop on George 'cause HIS PLAYING was a little "OUTSIDE" compared to other "WESTERN" players, and I would attribute that to his studies with Ravi Shankar, and his passion for Hawaiin UKELELE.


Never once, untill now, did I mention the word "SITAR", although he was talented and proficient on that instrument as well.

I hope that makes my thoughts clear enough for you. It almost seems that we are talking two different languages.......
I assumed by "multi-instrumentalist" you were referring to his abilities on the sitar. His slide guitar mediocrity is matched and bettered by various guitarists from George Thorogood to Eric Sardinas. George Harrison always centered his solos around an expansion on the central theme of the song, so in that way he's absolutely no different from Kurt Cobain. Plenty try to cop Duane Allman because he's one of the greatest guitarists to ever have lived. Not many try to cop George Harrison because doing so would be to literally steal melodies from the Beatles (so I guess maybe Oasis has tried to do so). always being in tune is certainly a wonderful characteristic, I know of so few guitarists who manage to do that. Oddly enough, though, managing to stay in tune is one of Kurt Cobain's "talents" as well, I've yet to hear a studio recording of him out of tune. I apologize for skipping some of these logical steps earlier and assuming that others could link the information for themselves.

[3fingeredblues]

Wow man, it's like we are definately on two different realities.

In my world, (not yours, obviously) I have yet to hear a single thing that Kurt was ever "in tune" on. You call George's slide playing "mediocrity", yet I call George Thoroughgood a better than decent hack...(and I like him....another of my faves that gets too much slack)...as far as Eric Sardinas goes, he is of course brilliant, but I don't hear much in him that I don't hear from Lowell George, John Fahey, Rye Cooder, "Homesick" James, or his contemporary Sonny Landreth. Duane was great for sure, but he wasn't the best...or even original.....he completely copied and combined the styles of "Lightnin'" Hopkins, "Mississippi" Fred McDowell, "HoundDog" Taylor, "Little" Walter, Son House, "Blind" Lemon Jeferson, ROBERT JOHNSON, Johny Shines, Robert "NightHawk", "Tampa" Red, and the great Elmore James.... among others that you and I will never be lucky enough to know of.... George Thoroughgood himself said he learned everything that he knew from the late and great Elmore James.
George had his own unique style that had nothing to do with the delta tradition of slide playing and created his own unique niche for himself. And of course, lets not forget the father of electric blues, Muddy Waters....

I don't hear any of these players in George Harrison's so called "mediocre" playing, as you put it.

Ans as far as refering to him as a multi-instrumentalist, he played-
1. guitar
2.bass
3.piano
4.percussion
5.sitar
6.trumpet
7.oboe
8.clarinet
9.sax
10.sitar
11.ukelele
and that isn't probably everything that he "dabbled" with.....

So again, for the FOURTH time, I hope I have CLEARLY given you my justification for saying that Kurt Cobang should NEVER be compared to the IMCOMPARIBLE George Harrison.

I'm glad that you are a fan of his as well, but to even think of Kurt Cobang at the same time should be insulting to any musician.

Y'know, it's like Hendrix was obviously great, but he doesn't belong in the same league as Mozart, or Johan Sebastian Bach........same as Edward Van halen, Joe Satriani, or anyone else you can think of does.

Ok, go ahead...bring up Frank Zappa now.....

Brilliant and far away as he was, even he doesn't belong in that league. Probably the greatest modern composer since George Gershwin. but even if you had asked them, they would say that it would be more than a struggle, in fact a pinacle, if they could have ever acheived the same heidghts as those great composers.

Now having said tht, I will aknowledge that it is just my opinion, and that it probably will make no difference to you. So with that in mind, I would say that my opinion smells just as awful as yours does....in fact, it smells so bad..........it "Smells Like Teen Spirit"........peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Jolly McJollyson]

Wow man, it's like we are pn two different ralities.
What's a rality? And how did we manage to be pn it?

[3fingeredblues]

you got that before I could go back and edit my spelling.....


I'll apologize for my grammar, but not for what I say.

I wouldn't expect you to apologize for your beliefs...(crazy and unsupported as I might think they are)......although I have yet to hear you back up anything to support yourself as I have. :p

I brought my argument, hopefully with some respect, now I wish to hear your side of things and why I should reconsider Curt Cobain as a "GREAT SOLOIST"..
I can hardly wait to hear a convincing argument, because after more than a decade of hearing about how great he was, and never "getting it", beleive you me, it would be a releif to finally understand it.

Help me, PLEASE, to understand the so called greatnesss of the Cobain.

[Jolly McJollyson]

Wow man, it's like we are definately on two different realities.

In my world, (not yours, obviously) I have yet to hear a single thing that Kurt was ever "in tune" on. You call George's slide playing "mediocrity", yet I call George Thoroughgood a better than decent hack...(and I like him....another of my faves that gets too much slack)...as far as Eric Sardinas goes, he is of course brilliant, but I don't hear much in him that I don't hear from Lowell George, John Fahey, Rye Cooder, "Homesick" James, or his contemporary Sonny Landreth. Duane was great for sure, but he wasn't the best...or even original.....he completely copied and combined the styles of "Lightnin'" Hopkins, "Mississippi" Fred McDowell, "HoundDog" Taylor, "Little" Walter, Son House, "Blind" Lemon Jeferson, ROBERT JOHNSON, Johny Shines, Robert "NightHawk", "Tampa" Red, and the great Elmore James.... among others that you and I will never be lucky enough to know of.... George Thoroughgood himself said he learned everything that he knew from the late and great Elmore James.
George had his own unique style that had nothing to do with the delta tradition of slide playing and created his own unique niche for himself. And of course, lets not forget the father of electric blues, Muddy Waters....

I don't hear any of these players in George Harrison's so called "mediocre" playing, as you put it.
Probably why it's so mediocre. Once again, let me state that you don't hear those players because George Harrison's solos are focused around the melodies of the individual songs of the Beatles. This was one of your key complaints about Kurt Cobain. You referred to these as "non solos," things that did not, in your mind, "count" as solos, yet you defend George Harrison who is very much "guilty" of the same crime. Please address this issue and tell me why I should think differently of people who build solos in the exact same fashion.

George Thorogood IS a hack. Better than decent is actually pretty generous of you. I just brought him up because he's better at slide guitar than Harrison. I think if you can't hear the fact that Cobain's guitar is in tune on Nirvana's studio recordings, then you should probably look into some ear training.

Ans as far as refering to him as a multi-instrumentalist, he played-
1. guitar
2.bass
3.piano
4.percussion
5.sitar
6.trumpet
7.oboe
8.clarinet
9.sax
10.sitar
11.ukelele
and that isn't probably everything that he "dabbled" with.....

So again, for the FOURTH time, I hope I have CLEARLY given you my justification for saying that Kurt Cobang should NEVER be compared to the IMCOMPARIBLE George Harrison.
Music isn't some pissing contest over how many instruments one can play

I'm glad that you are a fan of his as well, but to even think of Kurt Cobang at the same time should be insulting to any musician.
Unmerited accusation.

Y'know, it's like Hendrix was obviously great, but he doesn't belong in the same league as Mozart, or Johan Sebastian Bach........same as Edward Van halen, Joe Satriani, or anyone else you can think of does.

Ok, go ahead...bring up Frank Zappa now.....

Brilliant and far away as he was, even he doesn't belong in that league. Probably the greatest modern composer since George Gershwin. but even if you had asked them, they would say that it would be more than a struggle, in fact a pinacle, if they could have ever acheived the same heidghts as those great composers.
What does this have to do with Cobain and Harrison? The gap between them is certainly less than that between Mendelssohn and Hendrix.

Now having said tht, I will aknowledge that it is just my opinion, and that it probably will make no difference to you. So with that in mind, I would say that my opinion smells just as awful as yours does....in fact, it smells so bad..........it "Smells Like Teen Spirit"........peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Okeedoke.

[Jolly McJollyson]

I brought my argument, hopefully with some respect, now I wish to hear your side of things and why I should reconsider Curt Cobain as a "GREAT SOLOIST"..
I can hardly wait to hear a convincing argument, because after more than a decade of hearing about how great he was, and never "getting it", beleive you me, it would be a releif to finally understand it.

Help me, PLEASE, to understand the so called greatnesss of the Cobain.
If only you'd been paying attention to my argument instead of flying into knee-jerk reactions and repeating yourself, you wouldn't say this. I personally despise Nirvana and Kurt Cobain. I am in no way trying to convince you his guitar solos were "great." I'm merely calling you out on the hypocrisy of saying "melody based solos do not count as solos."

[3fingeredblues]

If only you'd been paying attention to my argument instead of flying into knee-jerk reactions and repeating yourself, you wouldn't say this. I personally despise Nirvana and Kurt Cobain. I am in no way trying to convince you his guitar solos were "great." I'm merely calling you out on the hypocrisy of saying "melody based solos do not count as solos."

The only thing I have ever repeated, and will continue to repeat, is my lack of understanding of the WORSHIP afforded to Kurt Cabang.....I have yet to hear you present any argument as to why I should feel differently.....also, I have before mentioned in other threads, that while I think it is a good thing that he inspired a generation to pick up a guitar, he inspired that generation in a different way than previous guitar heroes....he is the first "guitar heroe" that I can think of that inspired others to play because he showed how simple it could be, instead of inspiring others to new heights, as previous guitar heroes such as Beck, Clapton, Page, Hendrix, Van Halen, etc, etc.....Once again, you are willing to use big words in the wrong context. I have not been hypocrytical at all, and have supplied you with numerous reasons that there should be an obvious seperation between Geroge Harrison and Kurt Cobang. Study the musicians I presented to you as influences on other "western" musicians, and then go back and listen to Mr. Harrison again.

Just because he doesn't exude those influences in his playing doesn't mean that he should be considered "mediocre", but rather he should be recognized for his genius in finding outside sources instead of following the masses like a typical "lemming".....
Now you might want to say "well Kurt wasn't following the masses, he set his own agenda...." and to an extent you would *almost* be correct,and there is something to be admired in that....However, he was just following an agenda allready established by the Sex Pistols, The Ramones, Black Flag, Big Black, DRI, and various other punk acts....whereas George Harrison created something completely new....not only with his mates in the Beatles, but he continued to do so during his solo career........the same cannot be said of Mr. Cabang.....everything he had done, had all been done before....George helped to reshape music in a way that hadn't been acheived since the likes of Lester Paulfus, Charlie Christian, and T-Bone Walker. Check them out if you don't yet know who they are.....

BTW- go back and read my posts again. I never once said "melody based solos do not count as solos", only that they do not acount for what MOST musicians would count as a solo in the classic sense.

I do not appreciate you trying to quote me on things that I have never said....I don't care if you try to call on me to defend a direct quote, but to make stuff up or to "paraphrase" in order to suit your needs is, well, juvenile, and does nothing to serve whatever it is you are trying to prove.

As I said before, this isn't fair as you don't have the experience necessary to be compelling on this subject, and you have yet to back up your "baseless knee jerk" reasons as to why that someone who doesn't exhibit the same influences as every other Tom, Dick, and Harry, is "mediocre".

I respect whatever you believe or feel now,(in fact, I'm trying to help you) because you haven't yet learned any better, but the fact is, that in ten years or likely (hopefully)sooner, your opinion is likely to have changed drastically. That is called growth, my young friend, and it is a good thing....you should look foward to expanding your horizons, as someday you will recognize just how limited they are now(it is later in life that you look back and say to yourself "damn, how could I have been so stupid")....as we all do no matter how old we get........(BOOYA! hehhehheh :p ...this is me stooping down)LMFAO

BTW, if you think Kurt was in tune, don't bother with a new set of ears, yours are already shot.....get a tuner......

[Jolly McJollyson]

Contest it all you want Will, but those are not guitar solos in the classic sense. At least not mine, or most peoples definition of a solo. They are simple melodies that in most cases cary on the vocal melody, and a lot of times were just sheer noise. I would contest anybody saying Kurt ever played a genuine solo. So there :p hehhehheh
Oops, there it is!

[3fingeredblues]

[QUOTE=Jolly McJollyson]Oops, there it is![/

you qoute me to prove what I said, and you think you got one on me.....frikin' hilarious..........again, if you read what you have quoted me on, I never said as you quote me as saying

"melody based solos do not count as solos"

Rather than, and this is my statement as before "those are not solos in the classic sense."

Again you misquote me to try and prove something, but all you do is avoid saying anything of substance to provide a clear position for yourself.....this is like holding a child at arms length while they struggle to hit you, but don't quite have the reach to do it.........lol

[Jolly McJollyson]

The only thing I have ever repeated, and will continue to repeat, is my lack of understanding of the WORSHIP afforded to Kurt Cabang.....I have yet to hear you present any argument as to why I should feel differently.....also, I have before mentioned in other threads, that while I think it is a good thing that he inspired a generation to pick up a guitar, he inspired that generation in a different way than previous guitar heroes....he is the first "guitar heroe" that I can think of that inspired others to play because he showed how simple it could be, instead of inspiring others to new heights, as previous guitar heroes such as Beck, Clapton, Page, Hendrix, Van Halen, etc, etc.....Once again, you are willing to use big words in the wrong context. I have not been hypocrytical at all, and have supplied you with numerous reasons that there should be an obvious seperation between Geroge Harrison and Kurt Cobang. Study the musicians I presented to you as influences on other "western" musicians, and then go back and listen to Mr. Harrison again.
If "hypocrisy" is a big word, then let's thank God this isn't a vocabulary discussion. Which musicians you presented me? The Delta blues artists? The Classical composers? Zappa? I've studied all those musicians fairly extensively and fail to see why you brought them up at all, besides to show off how many musicians you can name, of course.

Just because he doesn't exude those influences in his playing doesn't mean that he should be considered "mediocre", but rather he should be recognized for his genius in finding outside sources instead of following the masses like a typical "lemming".....
Now you might want to say "well Kurt wasn't following the masses, he set his own agenda...." and to an extent you would *almost* be correct,and there is something to be admired in that....However, he was just following an agenda allready established by the Sex Pistols, The Ramones, Black Flag, Big Black, DRI, and various other punk acts....whereas George Harrison created something completely new....not only with his mates in the Beatles, but he continued to do so during his solo career........the same cannot be said of Mr. Cabang.....everything he had done, had all been done before....George helped to reshape music in a way that hadn't been acheived since the likes of Lester Paulfus, Charlie Christian, and T-Bone Walker. Check them out if you don't yet know who they are.....
Actually Kurt Cobain's style is most accurately preceded by the Melvins and Mudhoney, but that's really just nitpicking. George Harrison wrote one or two songs an album when he was lucky. The Beatles were run by McCartney/Lennon as they should have been. I mean, they're two of the greatest songwriters in history. Again, though, I'm not talking about originality. I'm arguing that Harrison and Cobain have a similar style of building solos.

BTW- go back and read my posts again. I never once said "melody based solos do not count as solos", only that they do not acount for what MOST musicians would count as a solo in the classic sense.
"Contest it all you want Will, but those are not guitar solos in the classic sense. At least not mine, or most peoples definition of a solo. They are simple melodies that in most cases cary on the vocal melody... I would contest anybody saying Kurt ever played a genuine solo. So there hehhehheh" Is what you actually said.

I do not appreciate you trying to quote me on things that I have never said....I don't care if you try to call on me to defend a direct quote, but to make stuff up or to "paraphrase" in order to suit your needs is, well, juvenile, and does nothing to serve whatever it is you are trying to prove.
Paraphrasing means "making stuff up," now? I have your quote above this one, so I don't see what your qualm is.

As I said before, this isn't fair as you don't have the experience necessary to be compelling on this subject, and you have yet to back up your "baseless knee jerk" reasons as to why that someone who doesn't exhibit the same influences as every other Tom, Dick, and Harry, is "mediocre".
I don't have the experience, eh? Well, ok. I guess that's fair. Certainly the reason I haven't named as many bands in a completely unnecessary fashion is because I can't, not because it's tasteless and show-offy. You can't have "Knee Jerk reasons," by the way, only reactions. I was referring to his technical skill as a guitarist. Compared to most of the people you mentioned he's nothing in the area of technical prowess.

I respect whatever you believe or feel now,(in fact, I'm trying to help you) because you haven't yet learned any better, but the fact is, that in ten years or likely (hopefully)sooner, your opinion is likely to have changed drastically. That is called growth, my young friend, and it is a good thing....you should look foward to expanding your horizons, as someday you will recognize just how limited they are now(it is later in life that you look back and say to yourself "damn, how could I have been so stupid")....as we all do no matter how old we get........(BOOYA! hehhehheh :p ...this is me stooping down)LMFAO
All these cracks about my age, tell me again how they further your point? Also, how can you "stoop down" when no one else has instigated personal attacks in this debate? To Stoop down there has to be someone at that level already.

BTW, if you think Kurt was in tune, don't bother with a new set of ears, yours are already shot.....get a tuner......
I can transcribe four-part harmonies by ear given a reference note. I think I'm ok in that department.

[Jolly McJollyson]

"melody based solos do not count as solos"

Rather than, and this is my statement as before "those are not solos in the classic sense."
Yeah, I felt the two were fairly equivalent. It's not a misquote, it's a rephrasing and an equivalency. I don't really want to get into the difference because this is a guitar forum, not an English grammar forum, and, frankly, your command of English grammar is a bit on the sub-par side. No offense, I honestly don't mean that as a jab or anything.

[Akira]

Meeeeeooooww!

[Raskolnikov]

OK, I don't know why the other one was closed down, but this one definitely needs to simmer down for a day or six.



Now... BEHAVE, people.