System Of A Down

[Willdridge]

Is anyone else eagerly awaiting 'Hypnotize'? I bought 'Mezmerize' over the weekend (I know it's been out for months, but I don't actually get out of my cave that often) and I haven't listened to anything else since...I normally listen to an album once or twice than move on, but I've had this on my Zen and been listening to it non-stop all day in work and at home...

22nd November I'm definately leaving my cave and buying this album...(although I guess I could be lazy and order it from Amazon thinking about it!) :D

[Jolly McJollyson]

I eagerly await nothing but the demise of SOAD. :D

[Homebrew1709]

Is anyone else eagerly awaiting 'Hypnotize'?

Yes...yes i am...

[Willdridge]

I eagerly await nothing but the demise of SOAD. :D

I'm guessing you're not a fan, eh? :p

Yes...yes i am...
I saw these guys live in June, and they seriously rocked...it's going to be a very long month though, isn't it? :(

[Jolly McJollyson]

I'm guessing you're not a fan, eh? :p
Haha, yeah, it was so deeply coded in my response. :D ;)

[Cody_King]

Im still confuised on why people dont like some of the "mainstream" rock bands out, i can understand bands like Trapt and nickleback and all that crap, but System of a down still has melody, good rythms, and good song structure, why is it people dont like them?

[Jolly McJollyson]

but System of a down still has melody, good rythms, and good song structure
Because not everyone agrees with that (myself included).

[Pantallica1]

Im still confuised on why people dont like some of the "mainstream" rock bands out, i can understand bands like Trapt and nickleback and all that crap, but System of a down still has melody, good rythms, and good song structure, why is it people dont like them?


"My poop smells better than yours," is not good songwriting. I like some of the older SOAD, like Toxicity and Aerials, but the new album isn't good. That's my opinion but, I think they can do much better than that.

[Willdridge]

"My poop smells better than yours," is not good songwriting. I like some of the older SOAD, like Toxicity and Aerials, but the new album isn't good. That's my opinion but, I think they can do much better than that.

I can see why you might consider that line "is not good songwriting", but 'Cigaro' is one of their nonsense songs. Could you seriously tell my "Why don't Presidents fight the war/why do they always send the poor" (B.Y.O.B) or "My sweet revenge/Is in the making/it's for the taking" (Revenga) is poor?

I disagree that it's poor songwriting, but it's all a matter of taste - (In my opinion) some songs (whoever the artist) should be delved into and they have a deep meaning; others should simply be taken on face value.

Respect for not going "System suck and that's final" though.

[Jolly McJollyson]

I can see why you might consider that line "is not good songwriting", but 'Cigaro' is one of their nonsense songs. Could you seriously tell my "Why don't Presidents fight the war/why do they always send the poor" (B.Y.O.B) or "My sweet revenge/Is in the making/it's for the taking" (Revenga) is poor?
Yes, I can. And I will. When I heard that "Presidents" line, I thought they were joking. when I learned they were actually SERIOUS I lost any and all respect for the moron who writes their trite, ignorant lyrics.

[Willdridge]

Yes, I can. And I will. When I heard that "Presidents" line, I thought they were joking. when I learned they were actually SERIOUS I lost any and all respect for the moron who writes their trite, ignorant lyrics.

Your opinion is duely noted; disagreed with, but duely noted.

I don't want to get into a flaming match here, (and I don't think we will), the world's big enough for everyone to have their view, I'm just curious why you think of them as 'ignorant lyrics'?

[Jolly McJollyson]

Your opinion is duely noted; disagreed with, but duely noted.

I don't want to get into a flaming match here, (and I don't think we will), the world's big enough for everyone to have their view, I'm just curious why you think of them as 'ignorant lyrics'?
Why don't presidents fight the war? Why do they always send the poor?

I'm not sure how this could be misconstrued as good writing, but I'll break it down if I have to.

First of all, the President is commander-in-chief of the military. Were he to fight in the war we'd probably, I'm sorry, definitely, end up with a nation in turmoil. But since they don't mean it literally, let's take a look at how utterly retarded it is figuratively. Why does America take advantage of the plight of the poor by forcing them to join the army and go to fight? Such is the question System of a Down asks. I'm not sure if they've heard the term "volunteer army" but technically the president is sending "the army" not "the poor," and I think the reason why is that it's the army's...what's that word...job. Honestly the first time I heard it, I thought it was supposed to be making fun of generic punk rock. I thought they couldn't seriously write something so trite, generic, and overdone. Turns out I was wrong.

My Sweet revenge is in the making it's for the taking. I don't even understand why you'd choose this line. There's nothing special about it, save the fact that it rhymes. Nothing poetic in these words. Really it's just pretentious garbage that pretends to be high-minded. Clever lyrics are supposed to be clever, not junk. What part of this is clever? My sweet revenge is in the making...it's for the taking? I don't understand how this particular line speaks to you. Yeah, he's gonna make revenge and take revenge and he's worked it into a phrase that has a slightly different meaning. Ok, working puns that moronic and obvious into a line has been done...by Spinal Tap. If System of a Down didn't take themselves seriously, I'd think they were ok. But they do, so they're not. Besides, all the atonal screaming alone is enough to tell you to shy away from their music. Any music that involves that hideous screamo yell can automatically be labeled as "produced by musicians too poor to understand melody and cadence."

[elklandercc]

First off, their Steal this Album was crap. But they regained theirself with Mezmerize. But a lot of their songs have meanings of the war and how their against it. Like the intro, it talks about a soldier standing there alone as his friends are dying around him. "Why do we always send the poor" is refering to the mass amounts of low class people signing up for the military while congress keeps their sons safe at college. If you check out lyrics you will see tons of stuff. Ex: We're the propagators of all genocide, Burning through the world's resources, then we turn and hide.....The kinda **** thats on your TV!,The kinda **** thats on your TV!,It's on the TV,It's on your TV,Turn off your TV,Can you say brainwashing?......What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?!!!............Stuff like that.

[Willdridge]

Why don't presidents fight the war? Why do they always send the poor?

I'm not sure how this could be misconstrued as good writing, but I'll break it down if I have to.

First of all, the President is commander-in-chief of the military. Were he to fight in the war we'd probably, I'm sorry, definitely, end up with a nation in turmoil. But since they don't mean it literally, let's take a look at how utterly retarded it is figuratively. Why does America take advantage of the plight of the poor by forcing them to join the army and go to fight? Such is the question System of a Down asks. I'm not sure if they've heard the term "volunteer army" but technically the president is sending "the army" not "the poor," and I think the reason why is that it's the army's...what's that word...job. Honestly the first time I heard it, I thought it was supposed to be making fun of generic punk rock. I thought they couldn't seriously write something so trite, generic, and overdone. Turns out I was wrong.

My Sweet revenge is in the making it's for the taking. I don't even understand why you'd choose this line. There's nothing special about it, save the fact that it rhymes. Nothing poetic in these words. Really it's just pretentious garbage that pretends to be high-minded. Clever lyrics are supposed to be clever, not junk. What part of this is clever? My sweet revenge is in the making...it's for the taking? I don't understand how this particular line speaks to you. Yeah, he's gonna make revenge and take revenge and he's worked it into a phrase that has a slightly different meaning. Ok, working puns that moronic and obvious into a line has been done...by Spinal Tap. If System of a Down didn't take themselves seriously, I'd think they were ok. But they do, so they're not. Besides, all the atonal screaming alone is enough to tell you to shy away from their music. Any music that involves that hideous screamo yell can automatically be labeled as "produced by musicians too poor to understand melody and cadence."

You raise some interesting points, ("the President is commander-in-chief of the military. Were he to fight in the war we'd probably, I'm sorry, definitely, end up with a nation in turmoil.") - but I don't think these lyric's apply solely to the recent Iraqi war - there have been many wars across the globe this particular song could be applied to, and "President" could be replaced with "Prime Minister", "Consul" or even "Mein Furer"; the point is much the same. I know this isn't the song you applied this to, but this is why their lyrics and other songs appeal to me.

--------------------------------------

"There's nothing special about it, save the fact that it rhymes. Nothing poetic in these words. Really it's just pretentious garbage that pretends to be high-minded."

How many artists in the history of music (Balck Sabbath, Led Zepplin, Iron Maiden, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones) haven't used lines purely for the reason for that fact they rhyme? If you could give me some examples of lyrics that are "clever", perhaps I could understand more where you're coming from; however, does the fact that the word rhyme make their songs any less worth listening to?

To call something moronic because it has a different point of view seems, to me, in itself egocentric.

I'll clarify this with my earlier statement:

"(In my opinion) some songs (whoever the artist) should be delved into and they have a deep meaning; others should simply be taken on face value."

This is starting to sound like a debate I don't think either of us can win - perhaps we should just agree to disagree?

I do respect your opinion, and I'm not trying to say you're wrong, I'm just saying there's other points of view. System (perhaps not in the songs I've quoted, but certainly in other songs) raise these other points of view, which I'm willing to absorb and make my own decision on.

I mean no offence, I'm just coming from somewhere else that is different from where you're coming from.

[Raskolnikov]

You raise some interesting points, ("the President is commander-in-chief of the military. Were he to fight in the war we'd probably, I'm sorry, definitely, end up with a nation in turmoil.") - but I don't think these lyric's apply solely to the recent Iraqi war - there have been many wars across the globe this particular song could be applied to, and "President" could be replaced with "Prime Minister", "Consul" or even "Mein Furer"; the point is much the same.

But does not the point Jolly makes apply to all of those situations equally well? Did not Saladin advize King Richard that if he continued to insist on leading from the front (in fact, knee deep in the battle) that it would one day cost him his life?

[Willdridge]

But does not the point Jolly makes apply to all of those situations equally well? Did not Saladin advize King Richard that if he continued to insist on leading from the front (in fact, knee deep in the battle) that it would one day cost him his life?

This isn't the point I was trying to make, (although it is valid). I don't think "Why don't President's fight the war" means leading from the front, I simply think that it's an observation that war is often entered by leaders, (and I don't mean President, the "Mein Furer" (and I do mean Hitler) line is as important, as is my other examples of world leaders) who have little regard (or perhaps realisation is more the word I'm after) for the life's of the soldier's who actually go fight the battles.

For the record, I supported, and still do, the war against Saddam (and it was a war against Saddam, not Iraq).

But isn't this all irrelevant?

Is anyone else eagerly awaiting 'Hypnotize'? This is what the thread was all about - I'd be happy to continue this discussion, but I don't believe the path's it's leading down belong to this thread.

[3rd_degreeburn]

. "Why do we always send the poor" is refering to the mass amounts of low class people signing up for the military while congress keeps their sons safe at college. . Ex: We're the propagators of all genocide, Burning through the world's resources, then we turn and hide

System of a Down...hmmm...IMHO they are crap..." lets sing about how much we hate bush and the Iraqi war" jesus...how original...only like every other band out there is talkin about that ( Otep, lamb of god, unearth etc)
can people not come up with anything original now adays??
Elklandercc please note that this is a "volunteer army" as jolly mentioned...these people had other choices...they didnt have to join the military, no one was forcing them too, but insisted on doing so..Is there somthing wrong if your poor and want to do somthing with your life so you join the military? I don't believe so, but thats just me.
How exactly is congress keeping their sons safe at college? The poor could have stayed safe over here and not joined...there is no draft so no one is being forced to do anything...If SOAD thinks america is so bad..they can go back to their sh*t country..( offensive but thats how I feel)

[PonyOne]

System of a Down...hmmm...IMHO they are crap..." lets sing about how much we hate bush and the Iraqi war" jesus...how original...only like every other band out there is talkin about that ( Otep, lamb of god, unearth etc)
can people not come up with anything original now adays??
Elklandercc please note that this is a "volunteer army" as jolly mentioned...these people had other choices...they didnt have to join the military, no one was forcing them too, but insisted on doing so..Is there somthing wrong if your poor and want to do somthing with your life so you join the military? I don't believe so, but thats just me.
How exactly is congress keeping their sons safe at college? The poor could have stayed safe over here and not joined...there is no draft so no one is being forced to do anything...If SOAD thinks america is so bad..they can go back to their sh*t country..( offensive but thats how I feel)
you mean they can go back to Glendale, CA? :confused: they all live in the greater LA area, so, it's only like a 20 minute drive for them...

i know they're ethnically Armenian, but, I'm pretty sure that at least some of them were born in the US, and all of them were raised here. Also, they've been political since their inception; the first time I heard them was around '98, two years pre-Bush. They just have a lot more to be angry about now that Bush is at the helm.

IMHO that statement isn't really offensive so much as it is ignorant; even if they were born in Armenia, they are American citizens, and they have the right to say what they want as such. They have contributed a hell of a lot more to the economy and to society than probably any of us here could say... so... yeah. They don't hate America or Americans, there's a difference between hating the President and hating the people, as so many in the US like to remind people in other countries is the case when they make swift judgements on us... why should it make any difference here?

I was born in Seattle to American parents and have spent all but 11 days of my life in the United States, and I disagree with Bush. Should I go back to their s--- country too? What about the, what, now 60% of the country that doesn't approve of us? Should we all go packing? You know there's a difference between disagreeing with an politician and anarchy; it's more patriotic American to stand up for your belief no matter what side of the fence you're on no matter what the social consequences than it is to do what so many people have done and say "well he's the president, i can't question him." Our forefathers, who drafted the constitution, would be revolted at those people. That's called complacency, and that's what the populaces of most European kingdoms did; the ones were sick of it came here to get away from it, so they might have self determination.

People in the military put their faith in the government that they won't be sent to war unless it's in our national interest; IMHO, there is no case that can stand up to this. Yeah, it's in the interest of wealthy shareholders who make money off gov't contracts, but how does that help anyone? Our president tells us we have to act NOW to fight Iraq and throw billions into the effort to rebuild them, and then says we need to take it slow rebuilding after a hurricane misplaces hundreds of thousands and destroys the livelihoods of millions... how does this make sense? charity starts at home, especially when it's a country and its own people!!!

But back to the original topic, I think that musically SOAD is actually pretty good and fairly interesting... I still love Chop Suey; awesome, awesome song, very emotional and very expressive, and the mandolin is a nice touch. I happen to disagree with them on a few fronts, among them their blind suppprt of Palestine, but that doesn't detract from their musical abilities. Don't necessarily know if I'll go buy the CD, but I wouldn't mind hearing it.

I think that they, like the Detones, got pushed into the crest of the nu-metal wave and paid for that; though not really nu, a lot of their then-fans jumped on board becuase they played heavy riffs and smoked weed, and as such people quit taking them seriously... too bad... they're a good band.

[Willdridge]

Thank you PonyOne - you've made the same points I wanted to, just much better than I probably could have.

Anyway, as you say, back to the point:

They've put 'Hypnotize' (title track) on their website for people to listen to, so if you're interested in hearing what the next album sounds like you could get an idea, (although I don't think one track can tell the whole story of any album). Certainly sound's interesting, I'm intrigued to hear the other tracks.

[Jolly McJollyson]

but that doesn't detract from their musical abilities
What might these be exactly?

The ability to scream atonally for no apparent reason?
The ability to write generic, unpoetic lyrics?
The ability to play guitar sloppily?
The ability to have a lead vocalist who CAN sing but doesn't seem to want to?

All they had before I realized they didn't have it, was an ability to be tongue-in-cheek. To make fun of other musical genres. I thought that was their goal. When it turned out it wasn't, they held no more water. They're not clever, they're not musical, they have nothing. Even that alien song, which managed to have a melody, was repetitive, boring, and went on for way too long. When SOAD manages to write a piece of music. Not even a decent piece of music, just music in general. I'll be right behind them, supporting them for doing so. As of yet all I've heard is atonal screaming and bad lyrics.

Yes, they've been political since the beginning, but for some reason they think that entitles them to being the ONLY political band around (if you've ever heard what the lead singer has to say about other bands being political). SOAD is not the first, nor will they be the last. Now, I have nothing against political music, but the day SOAD writes lyrics like Dylan, Waits, Young, or anyone who has ever been clever at any point is the day I'll be a fan.

[TheWizard]

First off, their Steal this Album was crap. But they regained theirself with Mezmerize. But a lot of their songs have meanings of the war and how their against it. Like the intro, it talks about a soldier standing there alone as his friends are dying around him. "Why do we always send the poor" is refering to the mass amounts of low class people signing up for the military while congress keeps their sons safe at college. If you check out lyrics you will see tons of stuff. Ex: We're the propagators of all genocide, Burning through the world's resources, then we turn and hide.....The kinda **** thats on your TV!,The kinda **** thats on your TV!,It's on the TV,It's on your TV,Turn off your TV,Can you say brainwashing?......What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?!!!............Stuff like that.

have you ever heard of Black Sabbath? Read the lyrics to "War Pigs" and think about where SOAD got their ideas for lyrics....

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of death’s construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor

Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait ’till their judgement day comes, yeah!

Now in darkness, world stops turning
As the war machine keeps burning
No more war pigs of the power
Hand of God has sturck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings
All right now!

yea so they didn't rip that off at all

but anyway, coming from a guy who listends to Dream Theater, Zeppelin, Sabbath, Rush, Yes, Marillion, Pink Floyd, etc. etc. I was really expecting to hate SOAD, but I heard some of the new CD and i was really suprised at how interesting some of the songs were, the only title I remember was 'radio/video' but were some really cool time changes, riffs, chords, and melodies, I'd listen to them again

[Willdridge]

yea so they didn't rip that off at all

but anyway, coming from a guy who listends to Dream Theater, Sabbath, Sabbath, Rush, Yes, Marillion, Pink Floyd, etc. etc. I was really expecting to hate SOAD, but I heard some of the new CD and i was really suprised at how interesting some of the songs were, the only title I remember was 'radio/video' but were some really cool time changes, riffs, chords, and melodies, I'd listen to them again

Maybe they were, maybe they weren't - but does it really matter if the lyrics have appeared in other songs? Using someone else's song as inspiration is no worse than an artist referencing their own (Bowie's "Ashes to ashes, funk to funkie, we know Major Tom's a junkie") in my opinion.
You're right about all those elements you've mentioned, and they're also tight as a unit - and they have stage presence.


I've seen them live and, Jolly, saying that they can't play suggests to me you've never taken the time to actually listen to them.

I have one last thought, because this debate and it's "my opinions" are starting to go around in circles...Jolly, and anyone else for that matter - for someone who dislikes the band and their music so much, you seem to spend an awful lot of time thinking about it.
If you're so against their music, or even just them, why did you even read this thread, let alone spend time replying to it? Why not invest your time talking about the bands you do like on other threads? Or playing your guitar and recording the music that'll be the demise of System? Thereby, you'll never have to listen to System or their "moronic lyrics" again.

Just a thought.

[Jolly McJollyson]

Maybe they were, maybe they weren't - but does it really matter if the lyrics have appeared in other songs? Using someone else's song as inspiration is no worse than an artist referencing their own (Bowie's "Ashes to ashes, funk to funkie, we know Major Tom's a junkie") in my opinion.
You're right about all those elements you've mentioned, and they're also tight as a unit - and they have stage presence.


I've seen them live and, Jolly, saying that they can't play suggests to me you've never taken the time to actually listen to them.

I have one last thought, because this debate and it's "my opinions" are starting to go around in circles...Jolly, and anyone else for that matter - for someone who dislikes the band and their music so much, you seem to spend an awful lot of time thinking about it.
If you're so against their music, or even just them, why did you even read this thread, let alone spend time replying to it? Why not invest your time talking about the bands you do like on other threads? Or playing your guitar and recording the music that'll be the demise of System? Thereby, you'll never have to listen to System or their "moronic lyrics" again.

Just a thought.
First of all, inspiration and plagiarism are VERY different.

Second of all, I didn't say they couldn't play. I said they couldn't play well. The intro to BYOB alone should reveal how sloppy they really are.

Thrid of all, because it's no fun to talk about bands I like.

[PonyOne]

What might these be exactly?

The ability to scream atonally for no apparent reason?
The ability to write generic, unpoetic lyrics?
The ability to play guitar sloppily?
The ability to have a lead vocalist who CAN sing but doesn't seem to want to?
atonally? no, he does a lot of middle-eastern style vocals... go listen to a CD of Armenian folk songs and you'll see some similarities. Maybe it isn't to your ear but that doesn't mean it's atonal. I think it sounds pretty cool.

Generic and unpoetic? Well, not everyone can be Pink Floyd, Tool or Radiohead... but you don't like Tool, do you? Well, in any case, I will hand it to you that some lines, like "the toxicity... of my city... of my cii-ii-ii-tee-eee" are kind of cheesy, but, they also have songs that are pretty well-written and witty. Some of them can seem somewhat ambiguous but IMHO more artistic because of that; I take Chop Suey! as a commentary on archaic middle eastern family dynamics, and the triumph of faith over logic, of tradition over progression; plus the mandolin at the beginning was pretty cool. I don't think that Sugar was meant to be taken seriously at all, and it does have some cool little quips in it; also, the addition of swing drums in the verses behind distorted guitar and bass is pretty cool sounding. Deer Dance is another good song, with some cool changes in temp and sound. I just don't see why it is that people think these guys suck so hard. You don't like them, fine, but that doesn't mean that they suck.

I don't think the guitar playing classifies as sloppy; he doesn't screw up left and right, he doesn't let his strings ring excessively, etc. What do you define sloppy as?

The changes that the lead singer does throughout many of their songs is IMHO a good indicator of his talent; again, maybe you don't like the fashion in which he sings but that doesn't mean he's bad. His voice does things that my guitar does when I play with the trem, and he hits notes I'll hit when I get that 36 fret guitar... kinda cool, i think.

All they had before I realized they didn't have it, was an ability to be tongue-in-cheek. To make fun of other musical genres. I thought that was their goal. When it turned out it wasn't, they held no more water. They're not clever, they're not musical, they have nothing. Even that alien song, which managed to have a melody, was repetitive, boring, and went on for way too long. When SOAD manages to write a piece of music. Not even a decent piece of music, just music in general. I'll be right behind them, supporting them for doing so. As of yet all I've heard is atonal screaming and bad lyrics.

Yes, they've been political since the beginning, but for some reason they think that entitles them to being the ONLY political band around (if you've ever heard what the lead singer has to say about other bands being political). SOAD is not the first, nor will they be the last. Now, I have nothing against political music, but the day SOAD writes lyrics like Dylan, Waits, Young, or anyone who has ever been clever at any point is the day I'll be a fan.
I don't keep up much on what these guys say in the press; did they say that they're the only bands that can have political music? If so that's messed up, but, I listen to music for music, I get my politics from the news, and there are better political bands than SOAD. I put Toxicity in about once every 8 months, so it's not like I'm a big fan or anything. I just don't understand the hatred of them.

[Willdridge]

Thrid of all, because it's no fun to talk about bands I like.

LMFAO....I'll be honest and say I was starting to think you were a bit of an opinionated arse, but you've just made me laugh with that line, so I think I'll have to reconsider that thought and say I'm misguided in that judgement. (I know I'm an opinionate arse, so as ever, no offence meant)

Inspiration and plagiarism are very different, you're right; but there's only so much that can be said about certain subjects before you start repeating another person's words, (or your own for that matter... :rolleyes: ) I can't see that line as plagiarism, just a nod to Sabbath - but then that's "my opinion"...different people see different things.

Again, having seen them live, I wholeheartedly disagree with the statement "they can't play well. Fine, perhaps Daron couldn't outplay Yngwie (who the hell can?), Satch, Vai, EVH, but he's not trying to - he's playing a very different style.
I would be interested to find a drummer that could play along with or outplay John though.

I go back to my earlier question, "Shall we just agree to disagree", but as long as it's fun, sod it, let's disagree to agree and carry on, eh? :p

[Jolly McJollyson]

atonally? no, he does a lot of middle-eastern style vocals... go listen to a CD of Armenian folk songs and you'll see some similarities. Maybe it isn't to your ear but that doesn't mean it's atonal. I think it sounds pretty cool.
I'm referring to when he just SCREAMS like "WHY DO THEY ALWAYS SEND THE POOOOR!?"

I know the difference between "not to my ear" and "atonal." I enjoy his actual singing when he does it. But when he just screams for no apparent reason (and you KNOW what I'm talking about), it's ridiculous. I've NEVER heard a folk song of ANY country that involved a high pitched scream for no reason.

[elklandercc]

System of a Down...hmmm...IMHO they are crap..." lets sing about how much we hate bush and the Iraqi war" jesus...how original...only like every other band out there is talkin about that ( Otep, lamb of god, unearth etc)
can people not come up with anything original now adays??
Elklandercc please note that this is a "volunteer army" as jolly mentioned...these people had other choices...they didnt have to join the military, no one was forcing them too, but insisted on doing so..Is there somthing wrong if your poor and want to do somthing with your life so you join the military? I don't believe so, but thats just me.
How exactly is congress keeping their sons safe at college? The poor could have stayed safe over here and not joined...there is no draft so no one is being forced to do anything...If SOAD thinks america is so bad..they can go back to their sh*t country..( offensive but thats how I feel)
Good points. But, poor people dont have a great chance to be excepted to college. They either cant afford it, cant get good enough grades, or can't afford proper clothes to look nice. If they go to the accetance desk looking scruffy with beaten up clothes, how will that look. They are almost forced to join so they can at least get free college or get the job thats easiest to obtain. I know that they could bust their but for a better life, but its not their fault they were born poor. If the government wasn't spending money for wars and immagrant's healthcare, they would have more to spend to better the unfortunate. I'm surprised the hurricane victims are doing as good as they are. Also, soad has been doing more than just writing music about hatred of bush/government. They are stepping forth and trying to make a difference. I'm not sure if the other Bush hater bands are doing the same, but credit soad for doing so. If my memory serves me right, only one congress man had their son vounteer while the others turned their back when the subject came up.

[Homebrew1709]

Good points. But, poor people dont have a great chance to be excepted to college. They either cant afford it, cant get good enough grades, or can't afford proper clothes to look nice. If they go to the accetance desk looking scruffy with beaten up clothes, how will that look. They are almost forced to join so they can at least get free college or get the job thats easiest to obtain. I know that they could bust their but for a better life, but its not their fault they were born poor. If the government wasn't spending money for wars and immagrant's healthcare, they would have more to spend to better the unfortunate. I'm surprised the hurricane victims are doing as good as they are.

Hold up. The "poor" people that make up the military are not the poor people u speak of who are "looking scruffy with beaten up clothes". The bums that beg for change on the streets aren't joining the army. And "poor" people can't get good grades? Why is this? I mean i'm sure it must be difficult growing up in a poor neighborhood, but poor doesnt equate to stupid. And as far as not being able to afford it; there are so many ways to pay for college whether its full or partial scholarships, student loans, etc... And serving in the army doesnt guarantee free college.

-"I know that they could bust their but for a better life, but its not their fault they were born poor."-

Hopefully I'm not the only one who thinks this came off sounding way ignorant. I could go on about this, but I'll leave that to someone else.

Btw, I am a fan of SOAD. Have been for a while.

[Willdridge]

My intepretation of the word "poor" might differ from other's, but I've never thought of that song as meaning "poor" in the sense of "bums on the street". I've always thought SOAD simply mean it in the sense of people who don't decide to go to war - they're just the people that are there fighting the battles - be it out of voluntering for their country or via draft.

Look at the First World War - many a young man joined the army (where you were shamed if you didn't volenteer) because of love for their country; they still died a 'poor-man's-death' without a grave. I (personally) believe this is what System are trying to portray (we're back to the 'IMHO' situation!) be it the 'Great War', the recent Iraqi or any other.

I (IMHO, :rolleyes: ) think that people get too caught up on the symantic's of particular words...you're not wrong in what you're saying any of you, but it doesn't necessarily make you right either. (And by no means am I saying I'm right either).

Anyway! 'Hypnotize'...who's looking forward to it?!

[Jolly McJollyson]

My intepretation of the word "poor" might differ from other's, but I've never thought of that song as meaning "poor" in the sense of "bums on the street". I've always thought SOAD simply mean it in the sense of people who don't decide to go to war - they're just the people that are there fighting the battles - be it out of voluntering for their country or via draft.

Look at the First World War - many a young man joined the army (where you were shamed if you didn't volenteer) because of love for their country; they still died a 'poor-man's-death' without a grave. I (personally) believe this is what System are trying to portray (we're back to the 'IMHO' situation!) be it the 'Great War', the recent Iraqi or any other.

I (IMHO, :rolleyes: ) think that people get too caught up on the symantic's of particular words...you're not wrong in what you're saying any of you, but it doesn't necessarily make you right either. (And by no means am I saying I'm right either).

Anyway! 'Hypnotize'...who's looking forward to it?!
I'm looking forward to Hypnotize!

[Willdridge]

I'm looking forward to Hypnotize!

A-roo?! But...wha....you...I....the....wha

Oh, sod it...

Hurray!....

:p

[elklandercc]

I'm looking forward to Hypnotize!
Do you have a little John Kerry in you?????? :D

[PonyOne]

Do you have a little John Kerry in you?????? :D
:rolleyes: