Dog-Gon Rappers

[Kirk Hammett is God]

Why is it that people that like rap and pop and all of that bullshyte have no respect for real music?! I played Stairway to Heaven for my sister (who likes 'N Sync) and she said it sounded like crap! WHAT THE HELL!!! That just pisses me off! She said that one of the best musical pieces of all time SOUNDED LIKE CRAP! As if that whoop-di-whoop, chicka-chicka crap that she listens to is the holy music of the gods! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHY!?!

[James Hetfield Is Jesus]

People Listen to rap and pop i think, because it is all they ever known. most likely they grew up around it, or just because there friends listen to it, they gots to.

[James Hetfield Is Jesus]

IT all has to do wiht friends and family.

[Kirk Hammett is God]

What I'm wondering though, is how come some people just don't respect beautiful works of art. You know, I don't really like classical music, but I at least have respect for it because it requires some skill to write those pieces. But some people just call it crap because they just don't think it sounds good.

[James Hetfield Is Jesus]

it dont matter if it sounds good to them. if they grow up being told and hearing that country music sucks ass, that is what they will say, or rock, or classical even.

[johnny5]

rap just sucks all it is a drum machine and gay ass lyrics
oh gunna bust a cap **** thats not the beauty of real music its just bull**** same beat same subject who cares about the life and **** i sure don't i respect it a little
i guess i don't care :-)

[Joseph]

....well, they'e just not listening close enough, this song has a great variety of almost everything you could wan't in a song. Its easy for someone to distinguish a song as fair, but your efforts are most rewarded when you can take the time to discover the true value of it all...


As a musician whats important to a lot of us is finding that white cloud, where we feel that we're floating above everything else, our vehicle to be creative. Rap music works for a lot of people, and I guess theres a message behind it all, but it just doesn't take to that place everything stands still and nothing matters at all, [i]it just doesn't do much for me.

Of course when it comes to music everyone is entitled to their opinion, but what really bugs me is how some people feel that rap music is that only music available. I mean theres such a great variety of music around, and its ridiculous to live and die by Rap without discovering the many other possibilities. I think its safe to say that everyone loves to hear a beautiful voice, someone who uses their voice as an instrument instead of a weapon.

-Joseph

[playmyfender]

I may be able to offer a unique perspective on this subject, the listening to rap and pop starts from an early at school. Children have to be in with the latest fashions and such, therefore they all buy the same clothes, have the same hair styles and listen to and buy the same music....
'Yo sarah have you heard Britney Spears latest song (crap -sorry!)' 'yes i have its cool'.
There you go. This culture continues into their teens then to adult-hood. 'Chuckle, Eminem just said s*!t' oh really but can he play the guitar?, can he play like jimmy page? Methinks NOT!
I was one of these kids,but i started listening to sumin a friend had on ( i think it was a sabbath track?) and i was hooked, i started to get some CD's, purchased an axe and have never looked back!

So all of you out there, if i catch you listening to Ms Spears or N-s*!t i will come round ya place and beat the living c£*p out of you then shove the CD's up your a$$!

Keep it real axemen!

[Martin Spaans]

My kids love all the modern music, rap etc.
When they turn on the T.V. there is MTV, TMF etc., Mostly it's all very commercial. They stab it in their brains.
I have lots of good music on CD and mostly they don't like it. Except one kid loves a CD of the Throwing Muses (the first album, if you know the record you ask yourself, how is that possible?, I don't know.)
I get crazy, when they turn on MTV and TMF especially in the morning, otherwise they get crazy when I am playing guitar. It's all give and take and hoping for better taste in the future. When I was fifteen I did not have any records at all. Nowadays they haven't room enough to store all the CD's at that age.

[zepp_rules]

Kirk Hammett is God, this is one time i'm going to have to agree with you. i also played stairway for my sister and she too hates it, she also said eruption was not a very good solo. it's so frustrating to see all these people listening and glorifying rap, which is just talking in front of an electric drum beat. it's sad to see any god**** person with limited talent make it big, while people like us work our asses off learning guitar. in addition, performers like britney spears and n'sync who don't even write their own songs, don't even sing live, they lip sync. all their talent is studio made. obviously, i'm very passionate about this subject, it just bugs me. don't even get me started about the show "pop stars," or "making the band."
one of the things i like about metallica, is that even though they are probably one of the most mainstream metal bands, they still write pure rock songs, something that is becoming a long lost art.

[Kirk Hammett is God]

That's what I'm talking about right there. Why would someone like someone who does something that any five-year-old could do when there's so many talented people that work their @$$s off to make great music?

[zepo]

Sooner or later they grow out of pop and rap most of the times when their around a mature enough age where they actually LISTEN to music not just hear it, but actually listen to the notes that are being played or they'll just listen the the new "rock" bands of today with the one finger inverted power chords and seven string guitars dropped 90 thousand steps and think that they are the greatest guitar players of all time which is a whole other thread.

[PonyOne]

first off... Johnny5, homophobia is really, really gay.

Second... in the defense of rap, there are some (very few, but still some) rap songs that are very good. When you look over old school rap, you often find a lot in common with rock, be it the use of a real guitar or bass, or just lyrically. White Lines by Grandmaster Flash and Melle Mel uses a really f-ing awesome bassline that was done on a real bass (Fender J-Bass, to be exact). There's a recent rap song called L-train (the name of the performers escapes me at the moment), which uses guitars, drums, and bass. And the recent rap hit Bombs Over Baghdad by Outkast has a guitar solo at the end.
I agree that at least 97% of the rap coming out is total crap, about little more than how much money the rapper makes, how his friends can beat your ass to the floor if you cross him, how he owns five Bentleys and a Hummer, and is better with women than you. But there are some definite gems, especially compared with the crap-rock that's coming out now. Metallica should admit that they have well and truly died (let's face it the last three CD's have sucked compared to the old ones), and then you've got the whole Santana phenomenon (ricky martin thinly veiled with a PRS), Aerosmith, Papa Roach (guys in their 30's marketing "hardcore" music to kids that are like 13) and all that.

The boy band phenomenon is a result of our corporate-run society here in the US that tells us what is cool, beautiful, necessary, etc. Sure you legally don't have to get a credit card, but how can you ever hope to buy a new car, or put a lease on it? Buy a house? Get plane tickets? Most of those involved in the sales of those things require credit cards nowadays. Or how you don't legally HAVE to get insurance, but you can't drive a car on municipal roads that you help to maintain unless you have insurance in most of the states in the US. So you have to go to a private business and give them money. It's all total crap. And that's what's happening with music. If you take a crappy band/performer/etc, and put them onstage, get a crowd of people who are paid to cheer or something, and then put it as a video on MTV then everyone assumes you're cool so they go and buy your CD and request it on TRL and there you go... pop icon.
Capitalism is awesome at perpetuating itself... it uses incentives such as glamour, TV, pop music, movies like Titanic and all that bollix to keep the masses from wanting change.

[Wiklund]

It's like music has become an industry where music is produced in large factories, through machines who just spits out thousands of copies. And people buys it.
Thinking of all those boy bands in particular.
They´re like puppets, put together, given a piece of paper of how they are going to act, to say in the media and what to sing. Since the MTV and the radiostations are all in this world wide conspiracy and only playing that kind of music, average people only get to know that kind of music.
It all seems so false, it's like hollywood in some way.
But I hope there still will be people who will put their hearts and minds into the music they are creating through hard work. About that Rap-music, It's not my style, but i respect hardworking musicians who really beleives in what they're doing and has put a personal stamp on it by telling us other " this is me and this is how i feel about things and i mean it).

[MaxMcD]

What i hate about the boy bands is they dont even write there own music!!!!!!!!! MTV isn't playing anything good and hasnt for some time now. people need to stop watching MTV.

[jake sommers]

This is a subject very dear to my heart, for like 16 years of my 18 years on this earth i lived and breathed rap and r and b and i know a lot of it is garbage, but some is good. And i hear a lot of you just quoting cliche things about rap which aint so. A lot of today's rap has good instrumentation in it(even though it might be 8 seconds of music looped over and over)but it's not just a drum machine a lot of today's rap has classical and spanish type vibe that's very good. For a while back in the 80's rappers just rapped over a drum and that was it. I can understand a lot of people listening to rap, i can understand myself listening to rap, you know in the hood that's basically all we were shown. No one really wants to reach out and embrace another type of music or anything different(i'm probally stilh the only one around my area who listens to rock) , if i hadn't picked up the guitar i don't think i would be listening to rock now and open to all types of music. The same type of judgement you say people pass against rock is the same type scenario you pass against rap, not knowing the all about it and can condemn it or say it's trash. It's all a respect thing. My bro is an awesome rapper and my uncle is one of the best old school rappers around. I think it's cool that i can respect my bro in what he does and he has much respect in what i do and in my abilty as a true musician, and that we can sit down and collab with me making tight beats together. And i'm sick of how people saying how rappers live, this that and the other, i mean it ain't really nobody's business what the heck the buy. Rock musicians have just as much and spend just as much money.

[Raskolnikov]

I agree totally here. Rap sure isn't my thing, but the fact is (as in all genres) that their's the true artists, and the commercialy immitators. I think that it's easier to make a "fake" rapper than it is a rock band, but Techno is even easier than rap to fake. SO...
Lets look at this like the resonable human beings and artists I hope we all are:
1). It does take talant to Rap- lyrics are lyrics folks
2). Don't confuse the commercialized crap that's put out en masse with the real thing. If you think all rap is the sterio typical "gansta" rap, then you despeately need to check out some Public Enemy and KRS-1. Most old school rap is at the least very clever stuff- even if it's a song about big butts.
3). Many rappers are musicians. Turn Tables is an insturment. If you don't beleive me, try putting a needle down on a record in exactly the right spot to make a specific sound, or to mix two records together- LIVE. Also, you do find traditional "rock" instruments being played in Rap, take the Bestie Boys or Jurassic Five for instance.
4). MTV does shove good music in with the duldrums of it's average broadcast day. I don't care what any of you think, Incubus is an awesome band (though I pray they don't sell out on me), and I have seen them live so I know they're better than you hear on the radio.

So what do I think are the important factors?
Live performance, is absolutely critical in my mind. As a musician I feel it's all about the live show (though I love to record). You have to be able to create music that's interesting and original, and you need to be able to pull it off on stage in front of an audience (which goes back to point one).

Remember folks, this is art.

[kirk5]

Well let`s just say that when i heard Stairway to heaven the first time,my mouth went open and i just listened to the most beautiful work of art ever made.Now i can play that song and i know that it takes a genius to make that song.
Rap and pop is a kind of music you don`t need much talent to make.These boybands suck big time!In the place where i live,everybody thinks "Come with me" is a great song and they actually think Puff Daddy made it,they really ought to listen Led Zeppelins Kashmir!I also don`t like classical music that much,but i do have respect for it because it`s really not easy to make a masterpiece, but for rap and pop i don`t have any respect because their makers are untalented pieces of ****!If i ever hear somebody talk about Metallica being a bunch of heary apes again,i ****ing rip their ****ing tongues out!!!
And as for you Kirk Hammet is god,keep it up believeng in Metallica and Kirk.Kirk Hammett is god!

[jake sommers]

Well can you really blame puffy if people believe it's his song. Did he ever come out and said this is my song? I wrote this? Huh? I don't think Jimmy Page had a problem with it, if he did i couldn't tell. If you want to blame someone you blame the people in your town. I don't really like puffy, i think he's a better business man, than a rapper by far. Why can't a rap guy cover or sample something without people saying they think they made it. I remember when keith richards had a beef with puffy, i feel if you ain't got nothing nice to say, keep it. It was sad, it was a shameless attempt for people to think about him and remember that he's still alive. And you can't say the backstreet boys or n'sync are talentless, that's not true. Just because you don't prefer their music don't say there talentless, cause you know it would be a lie if you said they couldn't sing, the boys have pipes, but they ain't my musical prefernce.

[Led Zeppelin]

All Ive read here is people immediately putitng down rap and pop. 2 people have stood up for rap and none for pop music. And to be honest I didnt even expect that. This is a typical rock attitude. Yeah, all these boybands may be manufactured with one intention, to make money. But there out there every night, enertaining thousands of kids. Take Britney Spears for example, she may not write classic songs, but she writes good songs. She may not be a great singer, but millions of kids buy her albums. I mean I hear here songs on the radio, and I know you do too. Their not classics, their pop songs their not supposed to. And I find myself whistling them and I know Im not alone. Whoever started this thread was complaining that his sister didnt like Stairway to Heaven then later goes on and starts saying all Nsync and all are crap. She heard Stairway and didnt like it, so what. the first time I heard Stairway to Heaven I didnt like it. Sure, I was 5 but still it took years before I realised the genius behind it. Im sure alot of these pop bands and rappers have worked just as hard as rock bands and have basically sacrificed their youth to be famous. They cant walk out in public like any us, they couldnt. They spend all day either on the road or in hotel rooms.


"We don't turn off the radio just because Britney Spears comes on. Will we buy the Cd? I don't think so. But we listen to what's going on."

Steven Tyler - Aerosmith

[kirk5]

I didn`t mean to blame puffy i just say that people are stupid who don`t know who to give the credit for making a song and telling everybody else that rock is piece of **** and they don`t like the music even thou they haven`t heard from it because they simply don`t know anything about it.I should blame the people who keep telling things they know nothing about.Ihave nothing against pop or rap artists,i just think they go much less trouble through making songs and lots of artists do it only because of money.i`m not making it all up,i just know kind of how it works.

_______________________
"WE`ll never stop WE´ll never quit cause we´re Metallica"

[Edited by kirk5 on 05-19-2001 at 07:40 PM]

[Raskolnikov]

The thing is their is amazing rap. You have to be willing to judge something for what it is to really appreciate it. As for commercial pop music- you find everything from pure studio magic to actual great performers performing mediocre (but, yes, catchy music). But we all hear the same song structures being used over, same melodies, same cliches blared over the radio every day. I really can't defend that, though I do acknoledge that many of those performers are great performers. I also alot of wasted potential. Think about the music these people could be making. I think we all really have to accept this for what it is: reality. Stay true to your art, and nobody really has any right to critisize you ever. Just remember that just because you don't like it, it doesn't meant he other guy isn't staying true to their art.

[jake sommers]

Space Ace made an irrelevant, and inflammatory post just to see how many people's skin he can get under and to parade his ignorance so i deleted it. Jake sommers

[Raskolnikov]

Bummer.

[space ace]

I don't take back what I said about rap. I just have the nerve to say what I want to about those bastards and I believe that they should all be stabbed several times with really big knives.

[Bardsley]

OK.......
I know that whenever I hear something I don't like very much the first thought that comes into my head is "they need to be stabbed with really big knives"...
Does anyone else see the darkly humourous aspect of this?

[Raskolnikov]

Hey, you can say or think whatever you want. That doesn't mean that you have any grasp on reality. The same goes for me and everybody else in this world.

But the fact remains that their are good hip hop acts- I'm not a fan, but I have respect for all artists. I've come to this mind set after having gained a respect and outright love for so many things I thought I'de never get into. I can remember sitting in my dad's truck when I was about four years old thinking "why would anyone want to be a rock star? I know I don't." Well guess what? I'm working my heiny off to hold down a day job and still practice and play out as much as I possibly can. Musicians from every genre do the exact same thing every single day; even rappers and DJ's. I suspect you're still in school if you have so little appreciation for the work involved in making any kind of music. Think about all the times in your life you've been wrong about a person you know, or even yourself. A movie that looked awesome from the adds on the TV and sucked royally once you were in the theater. Or maybe the exact opposite.

Now with that in mind make the music you have to make and let go of your bitterness. Just remember that Chuck D is doing exactly the same thing.

[Kirk Hammett is God]

So how is everyone today?

[kirk5]

As a Metallica fan,i feel great!

[Kirk Hammett is God]

Yes, God bless them.

[fendermonkey77]

Sorry to say, but boy bands are gonna be around forever and rappers are always gonna be around too! Don't get me wrong! I hate them too, but what makes money is what's going to sell, we, unfortunately (as superior guitar players and appreciators of real music) are currently in the minority......makes ya kinda wish you grew up in the 60's, huh?

[Kirk Hammett is God]

Amen, brother.

[trendkillah]

Actually, nowadays, we have a much larger selection of really good music then there was in the 60's. Just think about it, although there is a massive amount of crap out there these days, there is also alot of really great stuff, it just doesn't get air-time on radio or television.

I don't care what other people listen to, or what get's played on the radio or TV(you can turn those off if they annoy you). As long as I have my cd'z and my own music, I'll be fine.


Greetz, TK

[Kirk Hammett is God]

As long as I have my Metallica cds, I'm happy. I just think there should be more radio stations that play metal, though. I mean where I live there's about 50 stations that play the same pop music, and only 3 that play good rock music. That's just stupid!

[space ace]

Fellas I would like to be a little less psycotic on this topic because I have a little story about a type of pop music dying. We all know that horrid disco once existed and we all know that good rock bands sold out to it (ex.Kiss) But if your wondering how it was killed it was the summer of '80 and a young fresh rock act walked into Madison Square Garden then six hours later walked out. His name was Bruce Springsteen. That's right "The Boss" is the one who killed disco that's the main reason he is so famous. I used to hate him until I heard about that...oh and then I listened to him and now he is my favourite rock star. If you don't believe me they talk about it on those history of rock and roll shows that are on sometimes.

[quakked]

I wanna say right off that I like *almost* everything.

I love Metalica, Guns'n'Roses, Lenny Kravits, Kid Rock, Blink182, and the offspring.

ALL POP MUSIC SOUNDS THE SAME!!! (except for blink182)Example: Brittany Spears did a song called 'hit me baby one more time' which sounds exactly the same as 'oops I did it again' which sounds mysteriously similar to Bye Bye Bye by Nsync!!!!

I do NOT like rap and Hip hop Unless its in the style of Kid Rock or DcTalk (from the Jesus Freak album).

I do like ska a lot and that does have rap in it but it's not pop. Go to napster, download the song "return of the revolution" by the Supertones.

So that's my position. It's not all crap but a lot of it is.

[Raskolnikov]

Yes, their's the goods and their's crap in every genre. Though I can't agree with some of the acts you mentioned- to me Kid Rock is basicly a new Vanella Ice (who's now doing a "Hard Core" act). He's a tremendous stage presance but his music strikes me as disengenuous and bland. It saddens me to think what this guy could be doing. Anyway, it's not really my place to judge anything (and why I'm not going to go any further with my critiques of some of the other bands... what's the point?). You have to realize that for every Guns N' Roses their's a Nelson, for ever Sublime a 311, and for every Busta Rhymes their's a Puff Daddy.

Speaking of Busta, he cut an awesome song with Fishbone on their album Chim Chim's Badass Revenge. It's called "Psychologically Overcast." Not only does he do a respectable job of rapping over Fishbone, but the rest of the song will appeal to the metal in all of us. I'm talking the riff from hell here.

[Josh Tatum]

Rap makes me want to throw up it takes no talent to make up little rhymes and talk into the mic I am glad to see some people out there that appreciates music.

[PonyOne]

Compare Dead Prez or Styles of Beyond to NOFX or Sum 41 and who wins in both the talent and originality department? The former two. Remember, anyone can push buttons on a beatbox just like anyone can play frets on a guitar. In either case it's a matter of how well you can make it fit together.

[Raskolnikov]

Originally posted by Josh Tatum
...it takes no talent to make up little rhymes and talk into the mic I am glad to see some people out there that appreciates music.

A cohesive set of lyrics is a cohesive set of lyrics- I take it yours are winning awards? Second, rap isn't just talking- yes it doesn't usually involve singing, but it's spoke to a meter* (Shakespere anyone?). Ever seen free style rapping? By "free style" I mean that people make up lyrics on the fly. I suppose you can get up on stage in front of people, make up a cohesive set of lyrics on the fly, and still manage to stay in time with the drums and bass while presenting a vibe that keeps the croud interested? Have you ever tried to do any of the above? I'm guessing the response in your head right now is "No I haven't tried because it sucks." Well, try when someone isn't looking, then see if you still think the same way.

I don't like to harp on this but don't confuse "I don't like _____" with "________ sucks." I don't like rap either, but I can appreciate much of it for what it is. Rap isn't about chord progressions and a melody, it's about the rythm and a simple groove. You know, it's funny that nowhere in this thread has anyone given any kind of evidence why they think rap is so terrible. Are you really that afraid of that which is different from you and the world you know?


*for those of you who are less educated than others; meter means rythm.

[jake sommers]

Damn Ras!!, Summed up everything in a nice,tidy,little package. Speaking some mad knowledge.

[metalisbest]

I agree with the rap thing sucks. My sister's friend hated rock and metal until the Ozzy Osbourne show came on. Now she plays his cds non-stop and is started to like other bands like that. That is bull****.

[metalisbest]

I can't say that all rap sucks. Some rappers actullay have something and sing about real stuff. I'm mostly talking about DMX up to Flesh of My Flesh, Blood of My Blood. You can't say the song Slippin has no meaning at all. I also like some Ice Cube, DRE, and Snoop.

[Kirk Hammett worshiper]

Just because these guys know what they're talking about, doesn't mean they have musical talent. Guys like DMX may write their lyrics, but they don't write the music behind it, it's just a bunch of sampling and drum machine stuff.

[PonyOne]

I never considered getting into the rap scene for one big reason... most mainstream rappers use samples of OTHER PEOPLE's work. There are about ten basic parts and beats that are almos universal to mainstream rap.

Originally, rap developed w/sampling because, as Grandmaster Flash put it, "we were too broke to buy instruments. So we just got big speakers and a microphone and then listened to the parts of songs that we liked, and then just figure out how to spin the record so only that played." And then you had DJ'ing spring up, and you had the MC's, etc etc.

I've seen some underground rappers who've teamed up with a few other guys and got beatboxes and even, sometimes, a bass, and then went and did their own things. I've done backbeats for friends, and a few times, even did guitars for them. The underground stuff can be cool (or really banal), and then you do have the huge stars, like Busta, who use their money and influence to come up with interesting music to go with their lyrics. It's too bad more people don't do it.

[Christoph]

The whole DJ phenomenon is something I just can't understand. They do nothing but play other people's music, maybe put on a goofy ass outfit and bop around a little bit, and they're treated like gods.

[Kirk Hammett worshiper]

Well, they're only well thought of because people for some reason like that stuff because they think it sounds good, or they think they'll be cool if they do, or whatever, and these guys keep getting money from people buying their stuff. And if you have money, you get respect.

[aiwass]

Originally posted by Kirk Hammett worshiper
Well, they're only well thought of because people for some reason like that stuff because they think it sounds good, or they think they'll be cool if they do, or whatever, and these guys keep getting money from people buying their stuff. And if you have money, you get respect.

Ahem. Wasn't that the case with guitarists in the 80's? Everyone learned how to tap, and suddenly they were Eddie Van f*cking Halen. Get a grip on reality, dude. Times change, but kids will always be the same.

As for rap, I hate it. Not because it "sucks", not because it requires no talent, but because of the following two things:

1) My childhood definition of music is melody, which I cannot shake, and no matter how much i listen, I find rap boring. Besides, I don't get what people mean when they say that hip hop drum beats and rhythms are so amazing. Loops (imho) are, and will always be, repetitive and boring. Give me Terry Bozzio or Mike Portnoy, and I'll show you some REAL rhythm.

2) I don't like what rap has come to represent, in that every time I turn on mtv, I realize that the only rappers who have made it big are the sh*tty ones, who stuff their videos full of half-naked women, hoping that the listener will be too busy jerking off to actually listen to the music. Their voices are completely useless, which is proven when they engage in sing-along choruses and completely embarras themselves, and everything the commercial rappers sing about (since they haven't really been in the ghetto for a long while now) is pussy, pussy, partying (drinking), the length of their own dicks, and pussy.

How f*cking poetic.

On the subject of pop, I think that it can be equally parodic at times, but now and then there are some bloody amazing songs (mainly due to the exceptionally clever production that rap seems to lack). While I hate Britney, I firmly believe that Shakira is one of the greatest talents to come along in a long time. Truly amazing voice. And as for catchy songs? The groove in Jennifer Lopez' "Play" (before she changed her name to J. Lo.) is unbelievable. I've been digging that song for over a year and a half.

[PonyOne]

Kinda ironic, isn't it, that Shakira and Jennifer Lopez are two of the best looking female celebs at the moment.

I prefer guys like the Chemical Brothers to guys like Fatboy Slim. The Chemical Brothers use about 80-90% their own sounds; i.e. the beats that they write are omprised of sounds they made. Some of their songs do use samples of other peoples' stuff, but it's done in a much more tasteful manner. Also, the groove is very tight, and very full in terms of its content. Their stage setup tends to have one turntable and about a thousand synthesizers; they also have songs which use REAL GUITARS (gasp!), something almost unheard of in club music nowadays.

Fatboy Slim just samples another person's vocal track, them spins it next to someone else's music. Add to that the fact that half his CD's have the vocal track comprised of a radio or TV personality saying "Fat Boy Slim" in some manner, and as far as I'm concerned, you've got one of those "how did he make it?" cases. Though "The Rockafeller Skank" is very catchy and had a cool video.

I use my groovebox in a way which suits my style of music. It can't sample in the first place, and if it could, anything that I did sample would be, say, a wailing guitar part or a section of vocal that has been tweaked beond reason with effects. Sampling isn't my forte, though. My Yamaha can handle 16 simultaneous tracks, and so generally what I'll do is get a 4 to 16-measure intro that builds up, using about 4-6 tracks worth, then I have 16 other sections to play with which I use the other 10-12 tracks. I can't stand ultra-repetitive backbeats, so I really have to have intuitive breaks and such to keep MYSELF from going insane, even though a floor full of stoned skater kids and girls in tank tops with glow sticks probably wouldn't notice. For comparison, take "Ain't Nothing But A G Thang" by Snoop Dog & Dr. Dre. Yeah, out of boredom one day, I decided to see if I could replicate it. It takes three sections, and three tracks, and only about five minutes. And how rich did they get off that...?

I'm of the opinion that if you have any marginal skill in a real instrument, and real musical/band layout, you could probably tear up entire dance circuit if you felt like it.

What really, really disgusts me though, is seeing the type of money that really hot DJ's rake in. For instance, there's a club called Pravda in Boston, that I went to a few times w/friends. Now, this isn't like a smoky, homey little club... this is like, cutting-edge-intereor design, million-dollar-lighting-setup and $175 bottle of wine club. I went there with a few friends who were way richer than me, and were in with the bouncers. Outside, there are a steady stream of BMW's, Mercedes Benzes, Saabs, Escalades and Navigators lining up to be valet-ed, and inside, everybody is decked in Armani and CK and sharing the X. Granted there were some cute girls, some reeeeeeally cute girls, but that's beside the point.

The DJ was spinning crap that OTHER DJ's had spun, and then added a few scratches here & there. He wasn't doing anything interesting, he didn't even have a synth, just a pair of Technics. And I find out how much the guy gets paid... $3000 per gig!!!! Every f-ing Saturday night!!!! Needless to say, when he leaves that night, he drives off in a brand new SL600 coupe.

Meanwhile, up the street at the Middle East, the Confidence Men are playin gan awesome set with their old Gretsch's and Tele's. They probably made, oh, $100. It's sickeningly unfair.

[aiwass]

If you want pretty women, there are plenty of web pages for that... Music is music.

[Josh Redstone]

Originally posted by zepp_rules
Kirk Hammett is God, this is one time i'm going to have to agree with you. i also played stairway for my sister and she too hates it, she also said eruption was not a very good solo. it's so frustrating to see all these people listening and glorifying rap, which is just talking in front of an electric drum beat. it's sad to see any god**** person with limited talent make it big, while people like us work our asses off learning guitar. in addition, performers like britney spears and n'sync who don't even write their own songs, don't even sing live, they lip sync. all their talent is studio made. obviously, i'm very passionate about this subject, it just bugs me. don't even get me started about the show "pop stars," or "making the band."
one of the things i like about metallica, is that even though they are probably one of the most mainstream metal bands, they still write pure rock songs, something that is becoming a long lost art.

Let me tell you something. I use to hate manufactured bands to, untill I auditioned and joined a rock band and got on the Junos. Second of all, I know someone who's sister was on popstars, and if she didn't work her ass of to get there, she wouldn't have been there at all, so dont tell me all those bands dont have talent. Rappers dont maybe, but some people work hard to get where they are. I know that, having performed in the same band she was once in.

[aiwass]

Lame-ass shows like making the band and postars may require people with at least some talent, but the people who sign up are usually only interested in becoming famous. That's the impression i get from many mtv-rappers too (nelly springs to my mind).

That's NOT what music is about!

[Josh Redstone]

I could care less if I was famouse or not, I just want to play guitar. My point is, it takes more than some talent to make it like that, its just another way of going about making it big.
One of reasons she made it on that popstars program, is because she has sung everything from Christina Agulara to Metallica. Theres something to be said for versatility here.
What I'm saying is, even though I dont like that poppy kind of music, some of them do have talent and are capable of much better music, but thats the kind of music they want to do.
As far as rap goes, its the worst excuse for talent I've ever come across. At least the people I've been talking about before can sing, rap is nothing but talking, uttering meaningless profanity and having a drum machine as a bandmate. If it werent the only musical option being offered to a lot of todays youth, it wouldn't be around. People would start noticing that other music is better sounding and more complex.
Take my sister for one. She likes rap, but I've made a rock fan out of her, and now she want to learn to play guitar.

[educatedfilm]

I've been dying to post on this... and now i can...
so here come my oppinions
Rap, to me is the only real alternative to melody... it's fundamentals are rythem and MEANINGS... it's a breath of fresh air from alot of the stuff i hate (eg def lepard).
I also love punk, and i've always thoughtthat rap was the black punk. It's very raw (: meaningit's hindered by proffesional production), it's to the point (perticularly stuff like public enemy), it's accesable to all, and you dont need to be very technically gifted to do it. But in both song writting is what makes them so strong.
BOTH are very open to fads, fakes, and talentless wanna be, because all he's gotta do is have some vague intrest and a few months experince to make a start (that's not say that there aren't very skillful punks/ rappers).
Rap, is wonderful in it's accecibilaty, and it's very open nature. There are lots of different aproaches, it leave you and you imagination to do what you want. But it's very EASY to fake/ to copy, and you end up with producers who are good at producing/ making/ sampling the music rapping very badly (see "puff daddy").

Bustta ryhmes is the only excelent recent rapper i can name, "gimme some more" was excellent (it sampled the music from superman, and i was the only person in my area to notice it... mind you i did watch the film hundreds of times), and the vidoe is very very cool.
I've found that music, for me, needs to be a balance of melody, rythem, and SONG WRITTING... and there are lots of balances, not just the one. And the balances are also dependant on the listeners ears. Like with my tastes:
Lets take G'n'R for one, one of my most hated of all bands. People love them, yet i cant stand thier sound. I find it over produced, seriously lacking in decent lyrics, lacking in any decent artistic concepts, and sounding disengenous. But this is mostly because, my tastes lean heavily towards songwritting. But I've never said they weren't talented, (even though i strongly belive technical abillity never constitutes talent).
I LOVE nirvana, i like thier deeper songwritting, their more intresting approach to the whole song writting thing within the old "verse chorus verse" frame of reference, I like the clear honest melody, and the "human" guitar sound (rahter than sounding very sterile and over produced).

Also, rapping isn't as easy as it seems, I've been doing something similar, though it's not quite the same. Basically, you improvise a riff, and then once you have something decent, talk/ sing anything from the top of your head, a minute or 2, you'll find you'r self throwing together some very weak meanings and phrases etc etc, it's very dificult, but after a while you'll start to find some cool lyrics, and you start to stray away from clichied lyrics, and wont ryhme eyes/ skies etc etc.... it's a very cool excersise... as long as you never stop despite being short of ryhmes...

[Josh Redstone]

Just cause its hard to do something (come up with rap lyrics) doesn't make it good.
Lets see, if I had to choose between a good Van Halen song, or a song by, say DMX, I would choose Van Halen. Heres why.
Rock music usually involves singing, not talking. I find rap is more forced talking than singing. Granted you have an edge in rap if you have a rough voice, the same can be said for rock, the difference, you sing in rock. Also, rock music usualy requires more of a vocal range than rap. Listen to a Van Halen sond, then to DMX, like I said. Notice something? Rap is like a monotone thing, and rock, well, its got a lot more range.
I would also pick rock because they play they're own instruments, write they're own songs, ect. Rappers write they're own songs, but thats the extent of they're musical talent. The rest is all hired guns, a drum machine, whatever. Plus, if there even is guitar on a rap song, its usually limited to a few randomly played twangs that my I could have played when I was 3.
I can also relate to the rockers, I play guitar, Im in a band, and me and my buddies have even taken a few cracks at song writing. I dont have much in common with rappers, and like I said before, even if there are any complex instrumental parts to a song, you can bet they didn't play it.
Finnally, I dont like the profanity used in rap. Its puts me off, I mean, who wants to pay money to listen to some guy shout f*&! a bunch of times and sing about how they're the opitamy of contraversy in the music world. I know that some rock groups use language like that excessivly, but I dont listen to them. It just puts me off.
I guess what Im saying is, I tend to like music based on the actual MUSICAL !(keyword)! complexity, rather than the lyrics.

[educatedfilm]

I dont know... I dont think i agree with you.
I'm not into Van Halen at all... i find their stuff very cheesy and very forced (lyrically anyway), if anything it's more forced than rap (well, the stuff I listen to anyway)... It's the very cheesy lyrics, that get to me, and the feeling that nothing in their songs has any substance as such...
It's diffcult to explain, but you'd have to listen REM, David Bowie, Iggy Pop, Dylan, Blackalicious, RunDMC, Public enemy, nirvana (anything with a gifted song writer lyrasist, regardless of genre, to see waht i mean)...
I can understand, that poeple might simply not "get" the genre, and that's fair enough, but to get on their soapboxes, and start spouting out that rappers are talentless is a whole different matter..
To this day though, i still dont get why poeple say GnR/ Pearl jam/ Van Halen/ Bon Jovi etc etc have good lyrics.. God know i've listened to enough GnR, and out of both "appetite for destruction" and "speghetti incident", and there's not a song that i like...

[Josh Redstone]

Thats your opinion, and I gave you mine, thats cool.
What Im getting at is that a lot of people listen to music for the lyrics, I dont. I listen to music for the music. As far as profoundness and meaning in rap lyrics, please explain, because I dont get how talking profanity, homophobic and racial slurs, subjects like rape, how you hate people and and how your are bigger than everyone else is supposed to be profound. I dont know about anyone else, but I like music thats a little more intelligent than that.
Why do you think rap is popular? They create contraversy, thats what sells with them, not they're music.

[educatedfilm]

I agree with you about the fact there are too many rap songs with too much profanity etc etc, but i dont really know of anything that's "profound",but there is stuff that's "intresting" (that's the only way i can put it) to listen to...
Listen to "alphabet aerobics" by blackalicious, that's what started it all for me (i used to hate rap before that), and it's the most easy song to "get" that's pretty much based on the RAP.
The other thing that work really well is the drumming... but to be fair echo on drums is very cool, except 80's cheesers went and over used it. (Martin Hannet's work on Joy Divisions first album back in 77 or 78 was the first time that some one very delibaratly put echo on drums and got a great sound, just listen to "atmosphere" by Joy Division.)
I do definetly feel that rap at the minute is at a low point. but that's not say there's nothing good about. It's always worth a little probing, and reaserching, cos there's some great rap out there, just like punk, amidst all the crap... but i do definetly get the impression that poeple fail to ever hear great bands/ artists because of the crap that surrounds a genre.. which is a shame, cos it ends up poeple like mediocre middle of the road stuff like "nickle back" simply cos they've not heard anything better...

[educatedfilm]

the lyrics for "alphabeta aerobics", this isn't 100% accurate, but it give a rough idea... but you need to listen to it though...

(now it's time for our wrap up. Let's give it everything we've got. Ready? Begin.)

Artificial amateurs, aren't at all amazing
Analytically, I assault, animate things
Broken barriers bounded by the bomb beat
Buildings are broken, basically I'm bombarding
Casually create catastrophes, casualties
Cancelling cats got their canopies collapsing
Detonate a dime of dank daily doin dough
Demonstrations, Don Dada on the down low
Eatin other editors with each and every energetic
Epileptic episode, elevated etiquette
Furious fat fabulous fantastic
Flurries of funk felt feeding the fanatics
Gift got great global goods gone glorious
Gettin godly in his game with the goriest
Hit em high, hella height, historical
Hey holocaust hints hear 'em holler at your homeboy
Imitators idolize, I intimidate
In a instant, I'll rise in a irate state
Juiced on my jams like jheri curls jockin joints
Justly, it's just me, writin my journals
Kindly I'm kindling all kinds of (King Kong?)
Karate kick (Thai frits?) in my kingdom
Let me live a long life, lyrically lessons is
Learned lame louses just lose to my livery
My mind makes marvelous moves, masses
Marvel and move, many mock what I've mastered
Niggas nap knowin I'm nice naturally
Knack, never lack, make noise nationally
Operation, opposition, off, not optional
Out of sight, out of mind, wide beaming opticals
Perfected poem, powerful punchlines
Pummelling petty powder puffs in my prime
Quite quaint quotes keep quiet it's Quannum
Quarrelers ain't got a quarter of what we got uh
Really raw raps, risin up rapidly
Riding the rushing radioactivity
Super scientifical sound search sought
Silencing super fire saps that are soft
Tales ten times talented, too tough
Take that, challengers, get a tune up
Universal, unique untouched
Unadulterated, the raw uncut
Verb vice lord victorious valid
Violate vibes that are vain make em vanished
While well well would a wise wordsmith just
Weaving up words weeded up, I'm a workshift
Xerox, my X-ray-diation holes extra large
X-height letters, and xylophone tones
Yellow back, yak mouth, young ones yaws
Yesterday's lawn yards sell our (yawn?)
Zig zag zombies, zoomin to the zenith
Zero in zen thoughts, overzealous rhyme ZEA-LOTS!....

(good....can you say it faster?)

[Josh Redstone]

Thats some cool aranging with the lyrics, but I guess I would have to hear it.
Rap just isn't my bag, but hey, rock isn't for everyone either right?