i cant even write my own song

[diodiel2003]

heh any tips wat to do to write or some pattern or anything or guides thanks dudes \m/

[R. Shackleferd]

Depending on what kind of song you're trying to write, it might help to fart around while using a drum loop, or at the least with a metronome. This will help the "flow" of one random idea to another being more cohesive. But also keep in mind that riffs and songs can't always come on command (unless yer name is Jolly ;) ). They just come to you.

[Hamberg]

a basic song could be 4 chords repeated over and over again

[markc2005]

if u play around with four or five cord it can sound great i like to play around with differant strumming patterns

[yazmin]

i'm having that same problem too. i have a bunch of ideas and chords, and finger plucking styles, but i just don't know how to put it together or it doesn't seem good enough for a song. *sign*

[xXhardcorekidXx]

Most times when I get stuck I just strum a chord i never would have tried before. Like a Ebm7 or something and most times I can get something that sounds new. Also another good thing is different tunings. Open E and Open G and really good non-standard tunings.

[Kevin Taylor]

If you have the equipment to do it with...
Load up some drum loops into a audio application and cut and paste them so you get a 3 minute loop going. Divide it into sections that represent verses and chorus's.. ie, a slightly heavier beat for the chorus.
Set the drum loop going and start playing whatever comes to mind.
Try to think in terms of the way a song is constructed... a couple of bars of introduction, 4 bars for a verse, maybe 2 bars for a chorus..etc..
After a bunch of tries add some bass and keys to what you did until you start to build up a song.
After a few days it'll start forming itself together sort of like painting a canvas... it takes weeks sometimes.
While you're doing that, lyrics and melodies will start coming to you.
Try to just work on one song at a time and don't listen to other music in the meantime. Let your mind wander and play the song subconsciously while you're doing the dishes or whatever.
After about a month, you'll have about 50 tracks built up making up your song.
Now just go back and start shifting things around, taking tracks out and mixing it. Add your vocals and harmonies and voila, you've got a finished song.
Then just master it with t-Racks, convert it to MP3 and post it on the net.
Register the song with a performance rights association and offer licensing to various people like advertisers, film/tv people....
If you're lucky, the song will get picked up and you'll get about a years worth of pay in royalties cause your song was used on the newest teen tv show or whatever. Now you can ask for 100 grand in publishing on your next song, form a band and take private jets all over the world.

[rockonn91]

are you trying to write a song like, the music to it, or the lyrics? cuz i always write something, sing a tune to it in my head, and put the guitar in according to that.... thats basically the easiest way.

if your just goin for music, just play a sweet progression. whatever- theres no real rules. just try not to make it sound too cliche.

[Elixir-Lonestar]

:cool:

Whats up,

If you have the money, (180$) drop it on line 6 guitarport rifftracker (or wait till xmas for toneport) amazing solo recording device/software package for the money, with the twist of a few knobs, you canhave fantstic drums at your disposal, somtimes (as stated above) messing around with a tempo can be helpfull, or applying a riff to a tempo. I have recorded many songs with it , simply by plugging staight into the guitarport hardware, the onboard processing leaves hundreds of amp/head combos and effects at your disposal, and the way you record and build your songs is user friendly and extremly functional, you can also record keys, bass, and anytinhg you can record with a mic. check it out http://www.line6.com/rifftracker/

A good way to come up with songs is to start with a base riff or chord changes. Than build on that, change the mood later on by switching to minor chords, like D - Dmin , chords can work magic,

another way to get an idea, just plug in and start messing around, when you find somthing you like apply it to a tempo, etc.

lets say you came up with
<pre>

e
b
g
d
a 2-3-2
e 0 3^ 0
</pre>
your notes are E, B, C, and G

these could also be chords you play it over, you could have the chords change as soon as your notes do, or play 1 chord per verse or millions of other ideas, than maybe go an ovtace up and chnage your chords to hieghten the feel of the song

if you solo, maybe back that with a basic chord change thats related (in key) with your other chords, and let your soul spill all over it

thats all for now



- Dan

[tehplatypus]

heh any tips wat to do to write or some pattern or anything or guides thanks dudes \m/


just keep playing music and learning songs...soon enough, you'll be hearing your own songs in your head and figuring them out on guitar or just find yourself strumming around on the instrument and find a change that sounds cool with a cool rhythm and bam next thing you know you've got a song.


if you gotta be told patters or anymore guidance than "do your thing" then maybe songwriting isn't for you. songwriting isn't something that comes immediately either so don't get discouraged...i'm not writing this to discourage you either...just putting my own two cents on it...now whether that's in yen or american dollars or what...we'll find out...but my two cents are laid down.

[VHLO]

lots of songs come from one or two ideas like "smells like teen spirit":
riff (clean) riff(distorted) verse(most part by drums and bass) riff riff2 ...
2 riffs and some fills on the verse ...oops and a solo which is very melodic
as you see this song is based in dynamics hear how the energy comes up and down and this one of the most important aspects of songwriting and arragement
try writing some riffs (or struming patterns) for a verse and a chorus then when you repeat this change the pattern keping the chords and add some fills, just play some notes of the chords one octave higher if nothing comes to your mind, that stuff gives new life to the same thing (like the verse 1 and 2 of "ordinary" by train they use wha wha one this trick)
remember making a big diference between verse and chorus. knowing about what chord of certain tonality is the strongest also helpl so learn some teory........

[tehplatypus]

lots of songs come from one or two ideas like "smells like teen spirit":
riff (clean) riff(distorted) verse(most part by drums and bass) riff riff2 ...
2 riffs and some fills on the verse ...oops and a solo which is very melodic
as you see this song is based in dynamics hear how the energy comes up and down and this one of the most important aspects of songwriting and arragement
try writing some riffs (or struming patterns) for a verse and a chorus then when you repeat this change the pattern keping the chords and add some fills, just play some notes of the chords one octave higher if nothing comes to your mind, that stuff gives new life to the same thing (like the verse 1 and 2 of "ordinary" by train they use wha wha one this trick)
remember making a big diference between verse and chorus. knowing about what chord of certain tonality is the strongest also helpl so learn some teory........

that was very....analytical...

[bardo2]

Good advice!
Somtimes your too close to the ideal,Let your mind drift and open up your window to let it come in

[guitarboy313]

A song is normaly 3 to six chords or 5 to 10 bar chords or just use a capo and wen u got the guitar down or bass drums or what ever you play then you come up with lyrics like this.
these are the chords.
G A D E


Someone down the street from me that is dating my father.....
and you can write the rest of that song. :D :cool:

[griefwearsgray]

so heres my question. is anyone else here having problems with writing and not composing. i can put music to a song together pretty well, but the biggie for me is writing lyrics. just wondering if im the only idiot here. bye.

[guitarboy313]

The first time you try songs it is very difficult like the on i told you to try well when you get good at it add you own little twist like american idiot you play it in power cords well then you do solos with it so it may be difficult at first but play and play it and you will get better at it.

[sundance26]

I have had a load of great chord progressions but never really got anywhere!
its anoying when you know what you want to write but you cant figure it out, and you cant write the song - FRUSTRATING!!!
i think that you should not compare your song with those of others otherwise we wouldnt be anywhere by thinking "thier song is better than mine". write the song how you want to write it and if something sounds bad then mess around with the chord and change it or the same with lyrics. :rolleyes:

[drailmhs05]

in my opinion the best way to do it is not try at all. if you have the words already just keep reading them to yourself and most of the time it just comes to you. this also works the other way around just make up a tune and keep playing it and you'll eventually start puting words with it. sometimes this works and sometimes it dont. all the other ways that the other people have put on her are also good thats y i said in my opinion.

[Akira]

so heres my question. is anyone else here having problems with writing and not composing. i can put music to a song together pretty well, but the biggie for me is writing lyrics. just wondering if im the only idiot here. bye.

Just write instrumental music, that's what I do... well, that's what I try to do. :p

[redworm]

Get down your chord progression, and then just tell a story. If you can record it, just loop it and scat, make up stuff as you go along that you thing sounds good. Have a pen and a pad handy or record your voice. Talk about how you were at a record store buying Parliment CD's and you saw a girl out of the window that looks like Anna Nicole from the early 90's. Talk about how your friend spilled beer on your dog and your cat was all pissed off cause it was in heat...
I don't know how everybody else feels, but I don't think lyrics really matter as long as it sounds good.

[Hamberg]

heh any tips wat to do to write or some pattern or anything or guides thanks dudes \m/

try arranging a song like this...

intro
verse
prechorus
verse
prechorus
chorus
bridge
1/2verse
prechorus
chorus2x
outro

You have to think out side of the box to get this to work.

Don't start writing leads or vocal melodies until the rhythm section is finished.

I always write a beat on my drum machine, and some riff on the bass. Then I eleborate on that and get a chorus and birdge going. Then ill add the rhythm guitar and mess around with the arrangement a bit, add some leads and then re write the drums.

It helps to know theory. And it takes practice to write good songs just like it takes practice to play well.

lyrics really matter as long as it sounds good.
they do matter

[Hamberg]

A song is normaly 3 to six chords or 5 to 10 bar chords or just use a capo and wen u got the guitar down or bass drums or what ever you play then you come up with lyrics like this.
these are the chords.
G A D E


Someone down the street from me that is dating my father.....
and you can write the rest of that song. :D :cool:

By barre chords do you mean triads? Because theres only 7 triads in any given key.

[Jolly McJollyson]

By barre chords do you mean triads? Because theres only 7 triads in any given key.
Who knows...maybe he's talking about chromatic leading tone chords, but I doubt it.

[tehplatypus]

you know i've tried to keep quiet before about this...but i'm sorry and i can't anymore...what the hell's up with you people and being so formulaic with songwriting? it isn't about a certain structure, it's about finding a groove and something that moves people, you can't get that from a certain form and not everyone can write songs nor should everyone write songs.


whatever happened to writing a song to write a song and not worrying about form or a hook? if those things happen, they happen but they aren't needed.


if i've offended someone, i'm sorry....but i'm actually pretty offended by this thread and how many people who are willing to lower songwriting from an artform to just some formula. you people are the same people who end up ruining music.

[Jolly McJollyson]

whatever happened to writing a song to write a song and not worrying about form or a hook? if those things happen, they happen but they aren't needed.
I disagree, a hook is pretty necessary. Without a melody people can remember, the song is pretty worthless. I mean, we're not writing tone poems.

[tehplatypus]

you know i've tried to keep quiet before about this...but i'm sorry and i can't anymore...what the hell's up with you people and being so formulaic with songwriting? it isn't about a certain structure, it's about finding a groove and something that moves people, you can't get that from a certain form and not everyone can write songs nor should everyone write songs.


whatever happened to writing a song to write a song and not worrying about form or a hook? if those things happen, they happen but they aren't needed.


if i've offended someone, i'm sorry....but i'm actually pretty offended by this thread and how many people who are willing to lower songwriting from an artform to just some formula. you people are the same people who end up ruining music.

Eggs23508: haha, we're ruining music?
Jon the Villain: more the people going "try doing verse verse, chorus, bridge, chorus, verse verse i find it works great for me!"
Jon the Villain: you know...the people just out and out telling him what to play
Eggs23508: ah
Jon the Villain: maybe i should specify that?



now i have. :p

[tehplatypus]

I disagree, a hook is pretty necessary. Without a melody people can remember, the song is pretty worthless. I mean, we're not writing tone poems.


eh, i beg to differ that a song could go on without repeating a hook(a melody has to be repeated to be the hook, right?). if you just mean a melodic presence, then yeah, that's needed sometimes. you don't have to necessarily have a repeating of a melody, though.

[Jolly McJollyson]

lyrics really don't matter as long as it sounds good.
they do matter
Ah, touche.

[Jolly McJollyson]

try arranging a song like this...

intro
verse
prechorus
verse
prechorus
chorus
bridge
1/2verse
prechorus
chorus2x
outro

You have to think out side of the box to get this to work.
Wait a minute...you just gave him a box to arrange a song in and then told him to think outside the box and abandon patterns?

[Hamberg]

you know i've tried to keep quiet before about this...but i'm sorry and i can't anymore...what the hell's up with you people and being so formulaic with songwriting? it isn't about a certain structure, it's about finding a groove and something that moves people, you can't get that from a certain form and not everyone can write songs nor should everyone write songs.


whatever happened to writing a song to write a song and not worrying about form or a hook? if those things happen, they happen but they aren't needed.


if i've offended someone, i'm sorry....but i'm actually pretty offended by this thread and how many people who are willing to lower songwriting from an artform to just some formula. you people are the same people who end up ruining music.

The point of the formula is to learn something from it (like how to write sick riffs) not to use it for every song. If you want to learn arrangement then study chord arrangments.

[Hamberg]

Wait a minute...you just gave him a box to arrange a song in and then told him to think outside the box and abandon patterns?

The out of the box part comes at the 1/2 verse part (mine never could be counted as a 32 bar song; it always turned out to be some odd number of bars until recently.)

[babygirl2005200]

helllp me i suck at writing songs ive been writing all my life so i try to right about my ex but i cant which sound stupid but ya

[tehplatypus]

The point of the formula is to learn something from it (like how to write sick riffs) not to use it for every song. If you want to learn arrangement then study chord arrangments.

yeah but you don't present any analysis or feel or anything...you just gave him a formula for an example and that's it. he's better off learning other people's songs and learning form through the bands and artists that will eventually end up defining his sound as a writer anyways.


writing isn't a science unless you're writing classical and even then you can get away with faking it (see 12 tone series, john cage, and shoenberg).


you don't write sick riffs from formulas, you write sick riffs because they come to you from jamming and from having the creativity in you already.

[Hamberg]

Well. I've used the formula alot in the past, until I figured out a better ways to arrange songs. My music sounds original. 2 years ago I couldn't write a riff to save my life. I now can crank them out all day long. I've been playing for 12 years btw. Creativity isnt something your just born with. It has to develope. Theres nothing wrong with using a formula to learn. Saying that there is is almost like saying that learning theory altogether is the wrong thing to do.

[tehplatypus]

Creativity isnt something your just born with.


that's an arguable point.

[Hamberg]

consider this. I would imagine that a monkey could add 1 + 1 together and get the correct answer. As could a human. I'm sure that a monkey couldn't be taught how to do something like long division while a human can. So a human is born with the capacity to learn more about math then a monkey. At the same time when both species are first born neither are capable of adding 1 + 1.

[Jolly McJollyson]

consider this. I would imagine that a monkey could add 1 + 1 together and get the correct answer. As could a human. I'm sure that a monkey couldn't be taught how to do something like long division while a human can. So a human is born with the capacity to learn more about math then a monkey. At the same time when both species are first born neither are capable of adding 1 + 1.
And some humans are born with the capacity to understand mathematical concepts better than other humans. In the same way, some humans are born more creative than other humans. Some people just cannot write a good melody. I've met these people. Some people cannot write a good story/poem/lyrics/comedy piece, and they never WILL be able to because for some reason they can't grasp the ideas of cadence and structure. Mozart was born more intelligent and creative than I, and I'm willing to admit that. I don't think I'm limiting myself by saying that, I'm merely recognizing what is true.

[Armenian]

it has to all do with a persons motivations, with the right determination it is easy to master anything.

[Hamberg]

And some humans are born with the capacity to understand mathematical concepts better than other humans. In the same way, some humans are born more creative than other humans. Mozart was born more intelligent and creative than I, and I'm willing to admit that. I don't think I'm limiting myself by saying that, I'm merely recognizing what is true.

I'll give you that but at the same time...

its 10% physical (genetics) and 100% mental (what Armenian said)

[Jolly McJollyson]

I'll give you that but at the same time...

its 10% physical (genetics) and 100% mental
Well, I feel that a persons range of intelligence is determined at his birth, but his upbringing and such can either bring him closer to the top of that range or nearer the bottom. Anything 100% mental requires people whose intellect exceeds that of others. If Bob is much much smarter than John, Bob's more likely to not only do well in Quantum Mechanics, but also to even comprehend it.

[iamthe_eggman]

Anything 100% mental requires people whose intellect exceeds that of others.

If Bob is much much smarter than John, Bob's more likely to not only do well in Quantum Mechanics, but also to even comprehend it.

Deep. Not really. :)

[Jolly McJollyson]

Deep. Not really. :)
Deep or not, it's still true.

[Armenian]

Well, I feel that a persons range of intelligence is determined at his birth, but his upbringing and such can either bring him closer to the top of that range or nearer the bottom. Anything 100% mental requires people whose intellect exceeds that of others. If Bob is much much smarter than John, Bob's more likely to not only do well in Quantum Mechanics, but also to even comprehend it.

bob is smarter then john not because of genetics or because he was born that way.

[Jolly McJollyson]

bob is smarter then john not because of genetics or because he was born that way.
Really?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1467-8519.00161?favorite=add

http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Literacy/intelligence.asp
Or full: http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/amp60146.pdf

A person's brain is limited to its own power, the brain you're born with is the brain you're stuck with. Now, inheritable intelligence is still under debate, but a person is born with a certain range in which their brain can develop.