what is good or bad?

[sigment frued]

i love this one by sigment freud.

people these days good round saying that they are not religous and that god is not real.but alot of the time they do not think this the hole way through.
morals pretty much seperates the good from the bad,and yet who created good or bad or who is assumed to have created good or bad? god. strickly speaking this means that he is the fondation of all. then why do people who are not in any form of organised religon follow these rules?

for example that all homosexuals are bad

????

[iiholly]

They're just rules accepted by society. We essentially create right or wrong.

[Andrew Sa]

who said all homosexuals are bad...I think that view is only held by right wing conservative dudes! I think generally, anything you believe in too strongly (is that a real word?) is dangerous...but I am all up for being nice to people and all...and of course if you are not good, santa brings you ****ing soap and stuff!

[ren]

I agree with iiholly, although the concept of 'good and bad' or 'right or wrong' is individual. Religious people choose to believe that their definition of good and bad is the word of their 'God', and those without religion just understand how things 'should' be. Society helps us form these ideas...

Religious or not, treating people how you expect them to treat you seems a decent place to start.

I don't think 'all homosexuals are bad' can be accepted as a standard rule for all - some narrow minded bigots believe that, but fortunately the masses are far more accepting. I reckon there are very few things that can be considered 'universal truths'...

[Cryptic Excretions]

who said all homosexuals are bad...I think that view is only held by right wing conservative dudes! I think generally, anything you believe in too strongly (is that a real word?) is dangerous...but I am all up for being nice to people and all...and of course if you are not good, santa brings you ****ing soap and stuff!
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=strongly

[sigment frued]

i was only using the all homosexuals are bad as an exampl

[Kutzki]

its a good example to
cus there was a point in time were gays or homosexuals as they are called nowadays were looked down apon. the whole thing of coming out of the closet was that gays pretended not to be gay because it was frowned apon. today this has changed. i am a jew and in my bible and my laws it is forbidden for a jew to do a homosexual act but i dont think i would hate someone for being gay. i would have to believe it was his test in life to conquer and since now adays its ok to be gay, in my eyes and in that aspect the person has failed. hate me if you must but i will still follow my 3000 year religion that G-d gave to my great great... grandfather. and the idea of good and bad for us is dictated by G-d so the ppl who dont believe in G-d define good and bad for themself. some may even believe it is ok to give your freind or rape your sister, to me thats all sick but listen what can i do. its a sick world out there when everyone else thinks they are god.
i apoligize to those who are offended i am just saying it the way i see it and i ant trien to offend anyone so if i have i apologize profusely(whoever you spell it). and its that that homosexuals are bad
its the act of homosexuality is bad.
not every gay dude is going to burn in hell
its that every homo is going to have to repent for that one act, at least thats how i see it. its not that every gay person is actually evil. w/e
REBOINI SHEL' OYLOM' SPARE THEM THE TESTS
bless you all to become great rockers!
Amen to that, eh!
rock on dudes and dudets i am out for now

[sigment frued]

you have as very good point

i do not know much of the jewish religon or for that matter any religon outside of christianity.
i am not going to try to convert or convince but are you saying that homosexuals are bad people?

[Jolly McJollyson]

Here's an easy way to judge:

Syd Barret Pink Floyd= Bad
Post-Syd Barret Pink Floyd= Good

[iiholly]

If homosexuals were accepted in society or "it was okay to be gay" then they would be allowed to get married hands down.

[Kutzki]

i said that act of homo sexuality, from a jewish point of view is, yes, homosexual activities is a 'sin'
but i did not say that the person who is a homo is bad
that has nothing to do with his sexual tendensies
jews dont believe that
just they should be sleepen with women not guys
thats all
hope that helped.
whatever our bible calls it "not natural" and "not the right way" when it refers to the homosexual act
so YES homosexual activity is bad
but NO homosexuals arent bad people since the person being bad has alot of other factors to it
anyways that was to the freud dude who thought i said homos are bad

the stress is that the act of homosexual sex is bad, not a person is a homo

i am out = peace =i am gonna leave now

[iiholly]

its a good example to
cus there was a point in time were gays or homosexuals as they are called nowadays were looked down apon. the whole thing of coming out of the closet was that gays pretended not to be gay because it was frowned apon. today this has changed.

That's what I was responding to.

I didn't says anything about you thinking homosexuality is wrong. I do think it is a crock of ****, but I know its not worth arguing with people now. Its not like I could change your wrong views.

[J.Hammett]

We had a topic in English where we talked and wrote a pressure comp on prejudism. I think it's just that a lot of us people prejudge people because they're just different or maybe a group of people do something that really irritates you. Not to be racist or anything but most of the Asians at my school are just dicks. They think their at the top of the ladder and bullie people around and call girls with short skirts sluts. It just makes me want to Kill em All. Don't you just hate that type of stuff. I admit I'm somewhat prejudice against Asians because of them and I'm Asian myself except I'm a different ethnicity. I'm Filipino and they are Hmong and Lao. I don't hate Jews, Blacks, Homos... it's just those who treat other people like ****. I'm a really nice guy and I try to get along with everyone. I think all this stuff is based on the person and how they see things. I don't really see how religion steps in here. I guess if you guys can come up with a good explanation of how religion makes one person good or bad it would help.

[x0o_BurnOut_o0x]

In your religion is whacking off a sin?

[PonyOne]

i'm Jewish, i have nothing against gays and support their right to do what they want with their personal lives.

sixty years ago in some parts of the world it was okay to do sick things to us because we were different, we chose to live our personal lives in a different fashion than others. look what we went through. we're still hated in many parts of the world by many people, many if not most of whom have never even met a Jew, simply because they heard from someone we're different, and because we eat differently and we don't believe that Jesus was the savior or Mohammed was the prophet and we say prayers differently we're evil.

same thing has happened all over the world since the beginning of time, really. it's not any one group; people like to point their finger at muslims and catholics and huns and etc etc etc, but, if it's not religion it's race, if it's not race it's gender, if it's not gender it's sexuality, if it's not this it's that, if it's not that it's this. most people are leery of things outside the norm; that's why they live inside the norm, that's why there's a status quo.

but IMHO, nations should not be run by ANYONE'S religion. It's just plain not right; even in the case of Israel, unfortuately if we were to allow equal rights in regards to integrating palestinians into our society... it would be our death sentence. if the Palestinians could get their crap together and stop blowing us up - and idiots would stop building settlements in the middle of Palestinian territory - then by all means.

but in a country like the US, or the UK, or Canada, there is no excuse for one religious group setting the norm. in the case of the US, we were intended to be a melting pot where people have religious freedom and there's a separation of church and state, and so voting in leaders who want to rule on a religious platform is actually unamerican at its core. personally i'm a Jew, socially i'm agnostic.

give the gays the same rights as every other american citizen, they pay their taxes, they live in society just like everyone else... you take away their freedoms and you set a precedence for taking away other peoples'.

[ren]

In your religion is whacking off a sin?

My missus is Jewish, and she's never told me it is!!! Am I gonna burn in hell? not that I whac..... oh erm (cough).... nevermind.... :eek:

[Poontang_clan]

In your religion is whacking off a sin?

i heard if you do you'll go blind :rolleyes:

[ren]

i heard if you do you'll go blind :rolleyes:

Only if you hit yourself in the eye ;)

[tehplatypus]

i love this one by sigment freud.

people these days good round saying that they are not religous and that god is not real.but alot of the time they do not think this the hole way through.
morals pretty much seperates the good from the bad,and yet who created good or bad or who is assumed to have created good or bad? god. strickly speaking this means that he is the fondation of all. then why do people who are not in any form of organised religon follow these rules?

for example that all homosexuals are bad

????

some rules are just common sense and best for society...others are ignorant hatred bred into people with weak enough minds to believe it.

just because you don't believe in jesus or santa clause doesn't mean you won't be giving gifts on christmas day....as many athiests prove every year.

of course that's a benign example...but the same goes with people who hate gays and all...

but of course what it all boils down to is that people are stupid an insecure in general.

[Jolly McJollyson]

In your religion is whacking off a sin?
I hope not! Well, lust is. Guess if you don't think about anything while jerkin'... I could think about...saran wrap...or...cheetos.

[x0o_BurnOut_o0x]

Well if it is then i guess all of us here are screwed...

[iiholly]

I hope not! Well, lust is. Guess if you don't think about anything while jerkin'... I could think about...saran wrap...or...cheetos.

You're still being lustful, just for strange things. Clearly zip lock bags are way superior in sexiness than to saran wrap, I mean come on.

[Lordathestrings]

Well if it is then i guess all of us here are screwed...Naw - it's the other way 'round. If all of us were screwed more often, we wouldn't ....

[x0o_BurnOut_o0x]

Yes, that would solve the problem wouldnt it?

[Lordathestrings]

:D ...... :o

[sigment frued]

but why would god punish us for releasing sexual tension etc. whacking off
not everthing in religon is right.

i enjoy whacking off!!!!!
hahahhah

[Lordathestrings]

Meh, it's like grabbing a burger instead of having a steak dinner.

[Cryptic Excretions]

but why would god punish us for releasing sexual tension etc. whacking off
not everthing in religon is right.

i enjoy whacking off!!!!!
hahahhah
I couldn't imagine jerkin it being a sin. Seriously... when you could be out committing fornification, passing/gaining STDs, having kids out of wedlock? I mean, let's be serious. Most jerkage occurs during puberty when the hormones are raging. All that pent up rage can't be bad so I say let the kids do what they must.

[J.Hammett]

Here's a fact that a friend told me. Did you know that 90% of teens have stress because of the lack of sexual release?

[Poontang_clan]

Here's a fact that a friend told me. Did you know that 90% of teens have stress because of the lack of sexual release?

Not me :p :p

[iiholly]

Well it doesn't specifically say anything in The Bible (if we're going by christianity) about masturbation. But its clear that God wanted to keep our relations pure. Plus, you had in the whole lust factor. We aren't supposed to look lustifuly at each other. Its not that you're going to burn in hell for masturbation, but I don't think God would approve of wanking it or whatever you want to call it.
And I guess masturbation is better than sexual intercourse. You only "corrupt" one person.

[x0o_BurnOut_o0x]

This thread has gotten pretty interesting...

But yes my friend went to bible school for a short time before she got kicked out and there she learned that masterbation is a sin.. which is why i asked, I wanted to know if I should start calculating the amount of repenting I must do...

[Cryptic Excretions]

This thread has gotten pretty interesting...

But yes my friend went to bible school for a short time before she got kicked out and there she learned that masterbation is a sin.. which is why i asked, I wanted to know if I should start calculating the amount of repenting I must do...
I can't say I agree with that. Seriously, when someone packs it what happens? They get a stimulating moment of personal, sexual joy. No diseases spread, no kids, no fornification, nothing. We've all got our own bodies to which we can do with as we please. I say take your genitals in hand and go at it like you're a trend setter. Granted I really don't do such an act quite as often anymore as I used to, but hell, it's not like you're galavanting through the mall with yourself in your hand showing everyone your neat little trick. The only thing I've read in the bible that even comes remotely close to being related to masturbation is the brief part of Onin. Onin's brother had died and God told Onin to marry his now widowed sister-in-law. So Onin did so. God told him to make kids with her, but Onin didn't feel right, so he'd do the whole process, but pull out at the last minute and blast it all over her back (ok, so I might've added that part in myself). God did not approve of this, so he killed Onin. That's simply to the best of my recollection. And that is what we call casual sex. Not masturbation. I tell you what, being a teen with immense, pent up sexual desires is a bitch. Myself still being a virgin and on into my 20s, I can recall a time when I just thought about sex all the time. I was quite the horny one to say the least. Obviously the women didn't quite flock to me as I'd have prefered at the time, so I took the law ("the law" being myself) into my own hands and did what I did. Sure I could've been a bit more mature at the time, but y'know, raging hormones. When they're raging, there's not much a guy can do. I've toned it down a ****load since those days, and I don't see why it won't calm down even more in the future. It's just a matter of time. So I say play with yourself to your hearts content. No one gets hurt and you feel a bit better and it's way better than running off and doing something you might later regret.

[Kutzki]

That's what I was responding to.

I didn't says anything about you thinking homosexuality is wrong. I do think it is a crock of ****, but I know its not worth arguing with people now. Its not like I could change your wrong views.

how are my views wrong
this whole thread is discussing tolerance and you go and say a thing like that
how is that at all in line

its very nice to see you stick to your guns but that is not the proper way of doen that

seriously not cool

i will give you the benifit of the doubt that all you ment was that you disagree with my views and you feel mine are wrong and yours are right

i just dont see how you can just bluntly say mine are wrong thou
they are pretty logical

man and womens orgins are compatible to an extent homosexuality is like a sin against nature but whatever its all good

hey listen as long as we are all happy, with our health, and alive, o and have our guitars its all good right?

[iiholly]

Maybe I'd be more respectful of your views if you actually tried to use grammar.

[Kutzki]

i heard if you do you'll go blind :rolleyes:

number one
yes masturbation is frowned apon
and it doesnt say you will go blind
it says you will be week in your old age
you wont be able to pleasure your women cus
you wont be able to keep 'it' up and it says the hair on your feet will become thick

maybe your right but never heard that one before

[Kutzki]

I hope not! Well, lust is. Guess if you don't think about anything while jerkin'... I could think about...saran wrap...or...cheetos.

haha that is funny ****

[Kutzki]

but why would god punish us for releasing sexual tension etc. whacking off
not everthing in religon is right.

i enjoy whacking off!!!!!
hahahhah

just a point back in the day
everyone past the age of 13 would be married
;)
so there wouldnt be such problems we wouldnt need to release the sexual tension cus it wouldnt be there

[Cryptic Excretions]

number one
yes masturbation is frowned apon
and it doesnt say you will go blind
it says you will be week in your old age
you wont be able to pleasure your women cus
you wont be able to keep 'it' up and it says the hair on your feet will become thick

maybe your right but never heard that one before
Now that's one I've never heard. And I don't buy that any more than I do the going blind one. What it all boils down to is genetics. If your genes are set up so that you lose your ability to keep it hard, then guess what's going to happen? And the hair on your feet? That's way out there. But I don't know how serious you were being when you typed that one up, so don't take this the wrong way or anything.

[Kutzki]

Maybe I'd be more respectful of your views if you actually tried to use grammar.

very nice

a low blow

very nice

[Cryptic Excretions]

Maybe I'd be more respectful of your views if you actually tried to use grammar.
Well... all fairness, views don't really involve proper english and grammar is more so involving sentance construction than it is spelling. I don't know if it's a low blow necessarily, more so an out of context blow.

[iiholly]

Well presentation is everything. Are you going to listen to a politician who is dressed like a bum, and talks like they didn't pass high school? Or one that sounds well educated, and wears suites and the whole get up. Its not a low blow, its just the truth.

[Cryptic Excretions]

Well presentation is everything. Are you going to listen to a politician who is dressed like a bum, and talks like they didn't pass high school? Or one that sounds well educated, and wears suites and the whole get up. Its not a low blow, its just the truth.
We're talking about a message forum. It's not so much like we're voting on who the next president is here. No one's ever really worried about their spelling before in debates, so why use that as a rebuttle now? We all also know there've been far worse spellers to grace this forum.

[iiholly]

It was a comparison. Not to be taken literally. I'm just saying I take someone who bothers to capitalize and use puncuation, then someone who doesn't. No one may agree with me, but its just the way I see it.

[Danny C.]

Whoohoo! This thread is gettin hotter by the second! lol :p

[Poontang_clan]

number one
yes masturbation is frowned apon
and it doesnt say you will go blind
it says you will be week in your old age
you wont be able to pleasure your women cus
you wont be able to keep 'it' up and it says the hair on your feet will become thick

maybe your right but never heard that one before

I Heard Someone else say you'll go blind but i doubt it but if you actually went blind its not like you won't be able to find it ;)

[PonyOne]

if you're the average guy, if you do it yourself and then try to go pleasure a woman in the next three or four hours you won't be able to get it up. but in the long run, masturbation has actually been long known to make most guys last longer than if they didn't do it; it's like anything else, building tolerances and whatnot. the same as lifting weights, taking medicines, etc.

stuff about hairy feet/palms, bald spots, etc etc are just old cautionary tales that have next to no basis in reality.

i started pretty damn early in terms of both the manual end of things and the mutual end of things but that's best not gotten into. i was definitely not a virgin by the time i left my teens and you know what... all the bullcrap people claim about unecessary drama, or the cheapening of relationships, or etc based on sex is just plain not true, at least for me... and thus i can wager the same case for others. interestingly enough, areas that take a "not until marriage" stance on premartial sex in school have higher rates of teen pregnancy and STD's. I'm reminded of what one of my friends said about our sex ed in liberal MA, where they tell you everything: "now i'm afraid to do it."

my g/f and i are more or less splitting (it's way complicated) but the reasons have less to do with sex than they do with her mom dying and her own personal issues. kind of funny, i saw an email to a friend of hers where they were asking if the sex was bad and that was why and she spent a half page talking about how great the sex was. which just furthers my opinion that sex is way the hell better when you mean it.

to quote a line from a Blur song: "Girls who are boys who like boys to be girls who do boys like they're girls who do girls like they're boys; always should be someone you really love." Wherever you want it to go, just make sure you are seriously into the person, otherwise you're really just whacking it into someone else, which is decidedly not good form.

[Lordathestrings]

... my g/f and i are more or less splitting (it's way complicated) ...Damn! I am sorry to hear that, PonyOne. :(

[ren]

Well presentation is everything. Are you going to listen to a politician who is dressed like a bum, and talks like they didn't pass high school? Or one that sounds well educated, and wears suites and the whole get up. Its not a low blow, its just the truth.

Well, I guess Mr Bush dresses well.... does he sound well educated? :D Depends who you compare him to I guess...

And, that Blur song is about something that I believe is illegal in some US States....

[Cryptic Excretions]

It was a comparison. Not to be taken literally. I'm just saying I take someone who bothers to capitalize and use puncuation, then someone who doesn't. No one may agree with me, but its just the way I see it.
i dont Agree Or Disagree with you're original Opinion only thing i Disagree with is how way off topic your response was sumwon can still Make a Valid Point reguardless Ov how they spell It

[Lordathestrings]

... sumwon can still Make a Valid Point reguardless Ov how they spell ItPeople think in their language. If they're untrained in the proper useage, grammar, and spelling of their language, they're left severely handicapped in terms of forming cogent thoughts. Then, having formed a thought, such illiterates are unable to communicate effectively.

People whose native language is not English will have trouble making themselves understood on an English-language forum like this one. That's understood, and allowed for. I cringe when I see what comes off the keyboards of some people who were supposedly raised English-speaking. That isn't funny in any way. It's a tragic waste. :(

[Jolly McJollyson]

People think in their language. If they're untrained in the proper useage, grammar, and spelling of their language, they're left severely handicapped in terms of forming cogent thoughts. Then, having formed a thought, such illiterates are unable to communicate effectively.

People whose native language is not English will have trouble making themselves understood on an English-language forum like this one. That's understood, and allowed for. I cringe when I see what comes off the keyboards of some people who were supposedly raised English-speaking. That isn't funny in any way. It's a tragic waste. :(
Agreed. 890

[Cryptic Excretions]

People think in their language. If they're untrained in the proper useage, grammar, and spelling of their language, they're left severely handicapped in terms of forming cogent thoughts. Then, having formed a thought, such illiterates are unable to communicate effectively.

People whose native language is not English will have trouble making themselves understood on an English-language forum like this one. That's understood, and allowed for. I cringe when I see what comes off the keyboards of some people who were supposedly raised English-speaking. That isn't funny in any way. It's a tragic waste. :(
I don't have perfect english, and when I type casually like I do here it's even less perfect, but I do my best to keep my spelling and grammar up to par. There's nothing wrong with being able to spell and write and especially if you're raised with the english language. And that works with all languages. Someone who's raised under french that can barely spell and they're in their late teens is just plain sad. They live around it, they grew up with it, it's everywhere. I don't get it. I'm just happy I'm good with my own spelling.

[iiholly]

Only reason I used a "low blow" (if I had to call it that, and I really don't think I do) is because he obviously didn't bother to read the actualy response I had to what he said. His response was irrelevant to what I said, therefore I felt I had the right to say.

People against homosexuals is a real hot button with me, because I've seen the way my brother has been treated ever since he came out when I was in sixth grade. To me to see or hear someone say there is no prejudice against homosexuals just sounds very ignorant to me.

[sigment frued]

I from a very small narrow minded place called ireland.hahahhaha
until the last ten years, we were taught that sex was dirty, if you could'nt whistle you were gay, if you striked a match towards you that was gay and the famous wanking makes you go blind.

this obvisously made me curious and question religon.

i was raised a christian but chose to ignore the teachings and just ignore eveything they said.

it also made me curious when my 8 year old brother would come back from school almost brainwashed by bishops visiting his school, after that i gave up on it all togehter.

[Cryptic Excretions]

I from a very small narrow minded place called ireland.hahahhaha
until the last ten years, we were taught that sex was dirty, if you could'nt whistle you were gay, if you striked a match towards you that was gay and the famous wanking makes you go blind.

this obvisously made me curious and question religon.

i was raised a christian but chose to ignore the teachings and just ignore eveything they said.

it also made me curious when my 8 year old brother would come back from school almost brainwashed by bishops visiting his school, after that i gave up on it all togehter.
Somehow with a name like Sigment Frued I have an easy time believing this.

[The Ace]

Well there's an obvious reason why we have these problems...

The Human Race, as a whole, is an idiot.

To those of those that disagree, I'd have to say that I feel sorry for you... Individuals can be smart, righteous, "good," but put everybody with conflicting ideas together, and you are left with utter chaos.

In my own opinion, far too many people take the Bible too literally - and I'm a faithful Protestant, my church is part of the United Church of Christ. But when analyzing the Bible, far too many lack a certain amount of... well... common sense?!

I live in Massachusetts, where gay marriage IS legalized. But one of the main arguements opposing this decision was a scripture from the Bible... I can't possibly recite it word for word, but it was something along the lines of, "If man shall sleep with another man, then they shall perish..." Of course this idea is ludicrous to me! I think that most conservatives don't realize the time we live in! Things are changing all around us. That is a good thing. But the thing I hate most about opposing gay marriage is this - what about them? Are they not people to? Should they be denied their "god"-given right? Can a bond be shared as great between two of the same sex as two of the opposite? I'm pretty sure you all can figure my stance on that...

Which, as someone stated earlier, is why religion should play no part in today's modern governments. The fact is, the last major religion created still started over 1,000 years ago! Obviously times have changed! But religion hasn't . Unless the religion can change with the times, then I don't believe it should be the secular authority of our world.

Sure - the 10 commandments are still reasonable laws to follow, but with the aid of science, much of the Bible can be proved false. Just because I'm Christian doesn't mean that I have to think that Jesus will return one day to save us all. It doesn't mean that I can't be pro-evolution... The thing that angers me with conservatives is their (for the most part, don't get angry if you aren't like this) lack of opening up to change, and... dare I say fair-mindedness?

As far as the original question goes.... good or bad? Why can't we all decide that together? This is where my idea of common sense comes into play. Can we agree that stealing is wrong, and giving to charity is good?

BTW - Catholic doctrine teaches that sexual orientation, in any way or form (included masturbation), is for one purpose alone: reproduction. Technically, it's a sin for a Catholic person to even have protection, because then they are having orientation for enjoyment, which the doctrine says is a sin. I personally don't believe that's right at all.

Protestants are a little more lenient - my church teaches that as long as you are educated and understand what you are doing, then it's fine!

All right, that's enough for me. I told myself that I would never think this much during the summer. Oh well...

[Akira]

I agree with that man. ^ Good post.

[Cryptic Excretions]

Regarding Ace, I find that post to be good. Compare your girlfriend/boyfriend to your best friend of the same sex. What's the primary difference between the two? My friend relayed it to me that the big difference is what they do behind closed doors, but past that he wouldn't take me over her and vice versa (if he was forced to choose). So there he's got two equally good friends, but one is of a different gender. It's left to his physical attraction to decide which one he wants relations with. And people being as inconsistant with opinions as they are, to say that none of them would/should be interested in the same sex like that? Balderdash.

[sigment frued]

great post ace,

i would definatly have to agree with that
i don't understand how bush got elected. here we get a pretty negitive sde to him, is there anything for him on his account?

[The Ace]

Perhaps it was the opponent. I once spoke to a person that was pro-Bush, and their reasoning seemed silly to me, but had some sense to it, I guess... they said something along the lines of,

"Bush has started this war, he needs to finish it. We can't let all of our troops to have gone there in vain. He may not be the most qualified person in the world, but Kerry is not what we need right now. (Bla bla bla... Kerry is a flip-flopper). I simply can't elect someone who I don't know what he's going to do. At least with Bush I know that he's going to finish the war, and not go back and forth.

Now, I'm not legal voting age, but I still thought that Kerry would have it. In response to what the person said to me above, I replied,

"That's exactly it! Bush started this, and it was supposed to be over by now! Can't we withdraw before any more blood is shed? We're just pissing them off more by staying there and patrolling the streets... I simply cannot bear to think that these 20 year-olds are over there getting killed."

Well we might as well say it...

GO NADER!

[CW14]

Yep, that's pretty much how I feel about it.

BTW Ace, your post count is 666 :eek:

[The Ace]

Hehehehehe....

(realizes that it will be 667)

S***!

[Kutzki]

Now that's one I've never heard. And I don't buy that any more than I do the going blind one. What it all boils down to is genetics. If your genes are set up so that you lose your ability to keep it hard, then guess what's going to happen? And the hair on your feet? That's way out there. But I don't know how serious you were being when you typed that one up, so don't take this the wrong way or anything.

um actually i was serious and i sorta forgot something you will also be weaker in your old age, maybe i did say that
eh

and to iiholy
i seriously dont give a flying **** about someones presenation cus it can all be a mask to hide the real facts
i mean ya its nice and all if the dude doesnt look like he came out of an alleyway but seriously this is only a thread and i dont really proof read the things i write and if i did the truth is it probably wouldnt be any better but i really dont care as long as my point gets across to the read whatever

so if you are finished being a spaz about my stupid grammer/english is and how bad i did in highschool that would be real nice

rock on dudes

[Kutzki]

Ok, Ace brought up many really good points. I would just like to take the time to comment on some of them. For the last couple year's the new way of life is to teach tolerance and fairness. Ok, its a very nice idea but what about before this time? Were the generations of yesteryear wrong for the last, Oh, i dono, 2000 years?

I really dont mind gays, i dont mind if they even get married, but there was a time AND not that long ago where to be openly gay, was pretty much suicide. Now i just want to ask, Why was that?

And another thing, about that bible comment. What parts of the bible do you take literally? Thou shall not kill?

OH that! HAHA! That wasn't ment to be taken literal! POW!

OK its fustrating, things have changed and its fustrating. I am scared to wake and hear about another holocaust. AND i better not hear one of you say the holocaust never happened because it HAPPENED. I used to listen to my grandfather cry his heart out every night, his screams are still with me(he is dead now, he died in his sleep-the doctors say the nightmares scared him to death, they should could let him live). He had a number on his arm, he had the face of the expereinced man, and he had the stories. And thats same with both my grandparents.

Where was the tolerance then. I am sorry about that i get a little emotional sometimes and it popped into my head so i just typed away

Anyways, the drastic change in the morals of todays society is shifting to fast for me and i am a religious man and i follow my religion. My teachers have studied the bible and the oral bible (jews believe G-d told the written bible to Moses, and another set or rules and other specifications which we call the oral torah[bible]). Anyways so just to sum up what i believe makes things good or bad is a higher entity i like to call G-d. And i am pretty sure no one can have a problem with that. You may now have problems with G-d but you are gonna have proplems with him anyways.
G-d got me fired. G-d made my wife and my dog run away. Blah Blah Blah so whatever thats what i believe.

Yes, very narrow minded but thats what i believe.

And about tolerance, just because you tolerate something doesnt mean you feel its right. I believe in tolerance but i dont have to believe homosexuality is a good thing.

sorry if i upset anyone with this thread, but the whole subject can get pretty touchy.

[Cryptic Excretions]

OK its fustrating, things have changed and its fustrating. I am scared to wake and hear about another holocaust. AND i better not hear one of you say the holocaust never happened because it HAPPENED. I used to listen to my grandfather cry his heart out every night, his screams are still with me(he is dead now, he died in his sleep-the doctors say the nightmares scared him to death, they should could let him live). He had a number on his arm, he had the face of the expereinced man, and he had the stories. And thats same with both my grandparents.
I never did understand why people said the holocaust never happened. To me that was like saying stone henge was never built. All the camps are still standing just like stone henge. There's blatant proof that they both exist and there're more facts and proof that the holocaust occured than there is about stone henge. Some people just have too much time to think about things that should just be laid to rest.

[The Ace]

What parts of the bible do you take literally? Thou shall not kill?

I believe in tolerance but i dont have to believe homosexuality is a good thing.


My stance is this: there are lessons in the Bible, morals, if you will, that teach us how to live our lives. I can't go over all of them, but let me say that some of them still, in my opinion, should hold true today. Others, however, should not.

What angers me about the last comment is not that you think homosexuality is a bad thing, but I am angry for the homosexuals. They have a right, just like any one of us, to be happy, to be free. We should not only give this right to them, but embrace their differences. That's what makes America such a great place to be in. What you are saying makes sense, but the question that comes to my mind is - what about them? They'll never feel comfortable here knowing that, although you may accept them, you don't like them. Once again, I must ask, are they not people to?

[PonyOne]

well, and going back to my post on the third page... from on Jew to another... remember that just over sixty years ago, people like your grandparents were being slaughtered by the thousands because of what they were. not because of anything they did, not because of their personalities, but by a group of people who were ignorant to what Jews were and are culturally. my girlfriend's grandparents made it over and everyone else in their families died... they stayed behind because they thought that there was no way the people in their community would do anything bad to them; their kids played with non-Jewish kids, they worked with non-Jews and had them over for dinner... but when the Waffen SS came to town they showed their true colors. I can't remember the nam of the town that one half of her family lived in but it is a fairly well-known incident in which the townspeople not only turned them into the SS, they even assisted in killing and torturing them to prove that they were loyal to Hitler to save their own skins. A few families - maybe even my gf's relatives - were invited to find sanctuary in the local Christian church, and then the pastor went and got the Nazis. They beat them and raped the women in the courtyard, then they burnd them all alive.

and remember the other groups the Nazis put in the camps... homosexuals, Catholics, Gypsies. all punished for what they were.

Both before and after the war, while nothing as extreme as the holocaust happened, Jews were mistreated by the societies they lived in because they were Jewish. Hell, there's a popular resurgence of anti-semetism taking place in many parts of the world... again, because people don't understand us or our culture they instead just decide to hate us, they blam all the world's problems on us, and people state like fact that Jews own all the banks... WRONG... all the US financial institutions, while most have Jews higher up in the company (what do you want? our culture values a good education, is that so bad?) are run by white protestant males, who also make up most of the board of directors.

also, homosexuality was not considered sinful behavior by many societies up until the middle ages... look at Greek and Roman society, homosexuality was considered to be a good thing. plenty of indigenous cultures found it to be okay.

and so what if for thousands of years people thought homosexuality was bad, for thousands of years we also thought the earth to be flat. people learn new things and they adapt.

[The Ace]

Hell, there's a popular resurgence of anti-semetism taking place in many parts of the world...

In some readings I have found of anti-Jewish cultures, they claim anti-semetism is the same thing as religious zeal, that they coexist, you can't have one without the other. I'm like, "What?! What happened to the teachings of J. C.? Hello? Love your enemy?"

[iiholly]

um actually i was serious and i sorta forgot something you will also be weaker in your old age, maybe i did say that
eh

and to iiholy
i seriously dont give a flying **** about someones presenation cus it can all be a mask to hide the real facts
i mean ya its nice and all if the dude doesnt look like he came out of an alleyway but seriously this is only a thread and i dont really proof read the things i write and if i did the truth is it probably wouldnt be any better but i really dont care as long as my point gets across to the read whatever

so if you are finished being a spaz about my stupid grammer/english is and how bad i did in highschool that would be real nice

rock on dudes

I wasn't spazzing for one. Rarely on this board do I ever get into arguement because of this reason. I was justifying why I picked on your grammar. Maybe it was a low blow. But it felt like that when you were debating against me as to why you didn't like gays, when all I was saying that there is prejudice against gays.

I apologized for taking a "low blow" or whatever, but as I said before homosexuality is a really personal issue to me. Especially people saying there isn't prejudice against them.

[Cryptic Excretions]

There's prejudice against everyone and everything. And I find it often so stupid and out of whack that I can't believe that the people whom are expressing their anger are just doing it because they've nothing better to do with their time and have thought way too much on a topic that they don't like. And the media doesn't help since they're apt to hype up whatever will provoke a reaction, even if it means shoving something that someone hates in their face thus encouraging the prejudice. It's reasons like that that I find it best to just not associate with such a thing. I'm not against gay people in any size shape or form. Nor am I against any religion or ethnicity. But I'm not going out of my way to defend them either. I find it best to just step back and let the masses do their thing. I'm not involved with any of that crap as it is so I'm not going to jump right in the middle of a war I don't wish to fight. Certainly not knowing that I'm not going to make it better. If I could make everyone drop their prejudice by joining ranks then maybe I'd consider it, but there will always be someone out there that chooses to remain on the other side so why bother? People will still have their own opinions and I can tell them mine all I want but I can't make them care. Certainly not when X amount is more likely to talk over me vs listen to me. And here's where I explain myself in this state of hypocrisy. I've expressed my feelings on religion as well as many other things here. In various threads I've gotten quite in depth with things and I was actually on the debate team in high school. But my stance on the debate team and here has always been "all I really care to do is tell my side" I've never thought I was going to change someone's opinion. Never even tried to. I was more so interested in giving my opinion for others to think about. It seems like a fair trade. If someone offers their opinion then I should be allowed to freely offer mine. But hell. I dunno. I'm a walking contradiction. I didn't expect on posting such an elaborate post, but I don't feel like proof reading it and shortening it so what you all get is the first draft right here. Feel free to let me know if I suck or anything.

[iiholly]

Hearing the phrase "walking contradiciton" always makes me think of Green Day. How's that for a deep thought?

[Kutzki]

My stance is this: there are lessons in the Bible, morals, if you will, that teach us how to live our lives. I can't go over all of them, but let me say that some of them still, in my opinion, should hold true today. Others, however, should not.

What angers me about the last comment is not that you think homosexuality is a bad thing, but I am angry for the homosexuals. They have a right, just like any one of us, to be happy, to be free. We should not only give this right to them, but embrace their differences. That's what makes America such a great place to be in. What you are saying makes sense, but the question that comes to my mind is - what about them? They'll never feel comfortable here knowing that, although you may accept them, you don't like them. Once again, I must ask, are they not people to?

I must say, you really are a smart one. I agree whole heartedly but when i said i dont have to like homosexuality i meant the act. I have freinds who are gay. They are definitly people, i just get my morals from the bible and my bible tells me homosexuality is a bad thing. I do things that my bible tells me not to do also. And when i do them i feel bad. I also feel bad when my freind or freinds are doing something they should be doing. So pretty much the only thing i dont agree with you is we shouldnt be running at them screaming "BE A HOMO" but heaven forbid we should be screaming "DIE HOMO." Heaven forbids we should do that. That isnt even the right approach anyways. I just wanted to point out that lil diffrence.

[Kutzki]

I'm not going out of my way to defend them either. I find it best to just step back and let the masses do their thing.

Two thumbs up dude. Right on the button! :o

[The Ace]

I find it best to just not associate with such a thing. I'm not against gay people in any size shape or form. Nor am I against any religion or ethnicity. But I'm not going out of my way to defend them either. I find it best to just step back and let the masses do their thing.

Are you familiar with an Elie Wiesel? Elie Wiesel taught others about the "perils of indifference," about if you're not part of the solution - you're part of the problem. He called indifference a disease... most of the world today figures, "hey, it's not me.... it's not my problem."

Indifference is found everywhere. Take the holocaust for instance (I know it's a heavy subject, but it is the most striking) - all of Germany couldn't be Nazis. What happened to all the everyday citizens? Why didn't they do anything to stop it? The most likely answer is fear.

The human race, as a whole, cares about its own problems... I'm not trying to bash you Cryptic, I think you're a good guy, but that thought sort of came into my head when I was reading my post. One of my friends had to present an Elie Wiesel speech to my English class...

I must say, you really are a smart one

Why, thankyou!

[Cryptic Excretions]

The human race, as a whole, cares about its own problems... I'm not trying to bash you Cryptic, I think you're a good guy, but that thought sort of came into my head when I was reading my post. One of my friends had to present an Elie Wiesel speech to my English class...
No offense taken. It's a good point, but I was raised to not interfere and I've had some run ins in the past where I felt it necessary to put my two cents in and it ended up biting me in the ass so since then I find it best to just keep it to myself. A personal satisfaction if you will... maybe a selfish preferance but none the less.

[sigment frued]

sorry ace but i think i would have to disagree with you on that one

i think if you just step back and just leave things sort themselfs out then it can come out out better than forcing it down people throats

for example all the concern funds for people in third world contries

im deeply sad that alot of them live in poverty and are homeless, but at the same time i (and so many others) are sick to death hearing about it.

[Danny C.]

I agree with Ace, I heard too that if you arent the part of the solution, the you are a part of the problem and I believe it. Its like when people vote, I believe it is called voter apathy, thinking your one vote can't make a difference. Say you don't like one candidate that well, but you can't stand another, so you just decide not to vote all together, If you aren't voting for the one you would rather have, it is not supporting either, so in a way ,is supporting them both the same, if that makes sense. But, I see Cryptic's point how sometimes it is best to let the cards fall where they may, which in some does turn out for the better.

[Cryptic Excretions]

I agree with Ace, I heard too that if you arent the part of the solution, the you are a part of the problem and I believe it. Its like when people vote, I believe it is called voter apathy, thinking your one vote can't make a difference. Say you don't like one candidate that well, but you can't stand another, so you just decide not to vote all together, If you aren't voting for the one you would rather have, it is not supporting either, so in a way ,is supporting them both the same, if that makes sense. But, I see Cryptic's point how sometimes it is best to let the cards fall where they may, which in some does turn out for the better.
But if you're not part of the problem, are you part of the solution? Yes one vote can make a difference, but what's the probability of an event where one vote will make a difference?

[The Ace]

Well, first think of the typical school "loser." The bullies are picking on him, and nobody will stand up for him. What do you do? Stand there and laugh, so you, in turn, won't be laughed at? To me, that's not right.

And if that is the least extreme example, let's go to the most extreme example - the holocaust. If you're, say, a citizen of Germany, who is not a Nazi, and not a Jew (and not a homosexual, etc... let's say you "pass" by Hitler's ridiculous standards) - do you just let it happen? In essence, you're seeing the bullies pick on others. What do you do? Hope it will resolve? Yes, it may. But what if it doesn't?

At least if you do something, then you can say that you tried, rather than just "leave things to sort themselves."

-my thoughts

[sigment frued]

but in that extreme example people would be killed if they stood up to the nazi government and said it was wrong.

in some cases yes i will agree with you ace but not in all cases

i think tha some times you should just turn a blind eye for your own personal safety.

[Cryptic Excretions]

Well, first think of the typical school "loser." The bullies are picking on him, and nobody will stand up for him. What do you do? Stand there and laugh, so you, in turn, won't be laughed at? To me, that's not right.

And if that is the least extreme example, let's go to the most extreme example - the holocaust. If you're, say, a citizen of Germany, who is not a Nazi, and not a Jew (and not a homosexual, etc... let's say you "pass" by Hitler's ridiculous standards) - do you just let it happen? In essence, you're seeing the bullies pick on others. What do you do? Hope it will resolve? Yes, it may. But what if it doesn't?

At least if you do something, then you can say that you tried, rather than just "leave things to sort themselves."

-my thoughts
But things were still solved without every last person's support. Some times things just don't need everyone showing their opinion and taking action, regardless of how extreme. Having experienced the joyful lifestyle of being the one picked on by the bullies in high school I can honestly say that you're right. No one helped. Do I hold it against them? To be honest I'd never thought about blaming them for not helping me until you just mentioned it. And I still don't. They didn't make the bullies bother me. The bullies were bothering me and to blame the others is just looking for a place to point the finger. Things did sort themselves without anyone else's help. I graduated and support myself while those bullies are off getting **** faced and/or drugged up every weekend. Things just take time with or without other peoples' help. Time is just a measurement of change.

[The Ace]

"In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

-Pastor Martin Niemöller


That's what I feel.

[sigment frued]

i still think that in some situations you should step back and just leave things ride out( not in all situations of course) it just like the saying goes....." with democracy bring disgruntal minoritys, if the minoritys do not like the way the majoritys work, then a even smaller minority would not like the way the bigger minoritys work. i hardly think that all the minoritys in germany during hitler reign just let him put them in camps, they most likely put up a fight but where delt with by force. for an example if 2 people where fighting with knives. do you become part of the problem if you do nothing about it? or do you become the solution if you get involved?

[Kutzki]

I am not sure if I understood what you are trying to say but it seems to me that you think that when Hilter was in power it was a fair fight
-like how you illustrated a fight between two people- having a knife fight.

Well that wasn't exactly the case.

The Jews didn't have and army and they sure as hell didn't know how to fight. And the other minorities;them fighting back was infintial and useless.

So in the case of Hitler would you feel it your duty to step in and do something about it. Or just take 3 step back and let 6 million people die. Maybe take a couple steps back, turn your back towards Germany and cover your eyes too?

It really is circumstantial.

It really depends on the case.

If to people are having a knife fight and there is a way to stop it - stop the bloody fight.

If its a fist fight and a fair won. Get in line and place your bet!

If a bully is picken on a kid half his size- beat the buggers outta that bully and teach him a lesson.

Whatevern - it sorta depends if they want the help and if its in the persons best interests.

Sometimes people dont want help but in some cases it is good to force your help apon that person. For example - people which need mental help and watnot. K I think you get it. I got to go anyways so Later yall
and keep on rocken
"dude, never get mixed up with politics man, just play the gig"

[The Ace]

i still think that in some situations you should step back and just leave things ride out( not in all situations of course) it just like the saying goes....." with democracy bring disgruntal minoritys, if the minoritys do not like the way the majoritys work, then a even smaller minority would not like the way the bigger minoritys work. i hardly think that all the minoritys in germany during hitler reign just let him put them in camps, they most likely put up a fight but where delt with by force. for an example if 2 people where fighting with knives. do you become part of the problem if you do nothing about it? or do you become the solution if you get involved?

I do see your point here. I guess the time and place factor comes into play in these situations.

Maybe it's not the idea of getting involved Vs. not getting involved, but perhaps what you do when you are involved.

In your example with the two men with knives, I would of course find help (eg. local authorities), rather than just putting myself into the battle. You could, of course, be too late to save one of their lives, but I suppose that's the chance you have to take.

To get involved in the fight might be considered brave by some, but reckless by others. It's completely subjective I guess.

But sometimes we need more people who can and will be reckless, otherwise the problems in our world will never be solved. I'm not saying we should do anything extremely rash, but we need to still try - just be efficient about it. We need to do things smarter when we get involved in anything.

So before letting things work themselves out, see first if there is a smart way to get involved, if you see no way to help without putting yourself on the line as well, then you must make the decision. What you do is up to you.

[Fretfire]

The Golden Rule

"Do unto others what you want others to do unto you - Jesus Christ
"Don't do unto others what you dont want others to do unto You" - Confucius

[iiholly]

Oh no... confucius said it. That makes it twice as meaningful.

[Lordathestrings]

Oh no... confucius said it. That makes it twice as meaningful.LOL. Among us Taoists, that guy's philosophy is called "confusionism".

[The Ace]

LOL. Among us Taoists, that guy's philosophy is called "confusionism".

I love Taoism, because it makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. How are you supposed to learn about the "Tao" if you're not supposed to speak about it?

[Lordathestrings]

I particularly enjoy practicing the concept of 'doing by not doing'.... :cool:

[The Ace]

It makes you wonder if the Chinese were the first to smoke marijuana extensively...

[sigment frued]

hahahahah
probably cooked it in a stew!!!

most middle eastern countrys smoke pot.

[iiholly]

A better question would be, what countries don't have people who smoke pot in them?

[Cryptic Excretions]

A better question would be, what countries don't have people who smoke pot in them?
Antarctica...? Oh, that's a continent... but that should count even more so because it's more vast than a country.

[Leedogg]

A better question would be, what countries don't have people who smoke pot in them?

Utah?56789

[PonyOne]

Utah?56789
there was something on CNN yesterday about how they found marijuana plants growing on the grounds of some federal building in Utah.

i guess someone - who likes weed - has a pretty good sense of humor... wtf are they doing in Utah then??? oh well.

EDIT: my mistake, it's the salt lake city tribune. here's the link http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2881432

[sigment frued]

i bet you know theres no pot in the vatican. thats a country!!!



then again the pope has been looking very strange recently................

[Leedogg]

i bet you know theres no pot in the vatican. thats a country!!!



then again the pope has been looking very strange recently................


He looks like the Emperor in Star Wars.

[Leedogg]

there was something on CNN yesterday about how they found marijuana plants growing on the grounds of some federal building in Utah.

i guess someone - who likes weed - has a pretty good sense of humor... wtf are they doing in Utah then??? oh well.

EDIT: my mistake, it's the salt lake city tribune. here's the link http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2881432

I stand corrected! :D

[iiholly]

Utah isn't a country apparently.

Oh like a pope's never toked up. With all the corruption in the Catholic Church. Plus, enough classics smoke pot to make up for anyone who doesn't in Vatican City.

[Jolly McJollyson]

My name is Benedict! I'm practically POPE!

[sigment frued]

the vatican is the only contry in the world with a zero birth rate!!!!
and no natives live there


weird.....................

[Akira]

He looks like the Emperor in Star Wars.

This is true.

I wouldn't mess with him, he'd kick my ass then destroy the planet just for kicks.

[sigment frued]

i don't really like star wars..........not my thing at all

[Leedogg]

He looks like the Emperor in Star Wars.


This is true.

I wouldn't mess with him, he'd kick my ass then destroy the planet just for kicks.



Now do you all see what I mean? Their semblance is uncanny.

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~lw241999/images/pope.jpg

[iiholly]

I see it, and I don't like it.

[Jolly McJollyson]

I AM THE POPE...wait...that means...

NOW YOUNG SKYWALKER...You will diiiieeee!

[sigment frued]

Now do you all see what I mean? Their semblance is uncanny.

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~lw241999/images/pope.jpg



it really really does look like him!!!!


quite funny that the chatholic church could be owned now by a movie villian.

[The Ace]

it really really does look like him!!!!


quite funny that the chatholic church could be owned now by a movie villian.

No! Movie villian he is not! The 2nd Most powerful dark lord of the sith of all time he is!

Most powerful sith lords of all time (http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/powerful_sith.html)

BTW, this guy Supershadow is making episodes 7, 8 and 9, NOT George Lucas. Check it out - Supershadow (http://www.supershadow.com)