Seymour Duncan, or Dimarzio pickup for an Ibanez RG?

[Silimtao]

Hi all- I have a friend that has a DiMarzio Super Distortion DP100 pickup for sale for $45- I'm thinking of getting a hotter pickup for the bridge. Anyone know about this pickup? How about compared to a Seymour Duncan Distortion SH-6? I'm thinking of putting it in one of my Ibanez RGs.

Also, if I replace one pickup, is it better to replace BOTH, meaning I'd be leaving the stock Ibanez neck pickup in for the meantime. All opinions appreciated. BTW, I'm not really a shredder, but I do want something with a bit more kick than the stock Ibanez pickups. Thanks again.

[Lordathestrings]

I've been using a DP101 Dual Sound in my Yamaha SBG1000 since '86. It's a 4-wire version of the Super Distortion. If you like 70's music, that's your baby. I prefer the wiring versatility of the DP101 over the 2-wire DP100, but I bought new, so I had that option. The Super Distortion is the sound of Classic Rock. That's the pickup that started the whole replacement pickup industry.

It works best with a high value of volume pot resistance. 250 k Ohms will make it sound dark and muffled. Try a 500 k pot, or even a 1 meg.

[Silimtao]

I've been using a DP101 Dual Sound in my Yamaha SBG1000 since '86. It's a 4-wire version of the Super Distortion. If you like 70's music, that's your baby. I prefer the wiring versatility of the DP101 over the 2-wire DP100, but I bought new, so I had that option. The Super Distortion is the sound of Classic Rock. That's the pickup that started the whole replacement pickup industry.

It works best with a high value of volume pot resistance. 250 k Ohms will make it sound dark and muffled. Try a 500 k pot, or even a 1 meg.


Thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm a "classic rock" kinda guy for the most part- makes ya feel old, huh? But I'm rediscovering the guitar again, and want more "oomph" from my Ibananez' with a grittier, metal-ish kinda sound. So your info has decided it for me- not the type of pickup for me. I can get the 70's sound out of my Fenders. I was never much of a guitar modder; pretty much stock everything, so your last coupla lines is Greek to me, lol. But your info is enough to have allowed me to make an informed decision. Thanks much.

[PonyOne]

what he means by pots are the volume and tone knobs; technically, they're called a potentiometer; "pot" or "pot switch" for short. different types of guitars use different types of pots; Fenders as a general rule use 250k pots, and most Gibsons and other humbucker equipped guitars (your Ibanez probably one of them) use 500k pots.

pots have a lot more affect on tone than most people realize; I threw away about fifteen whole dollars (!!!) experimenting with them to discover this. A 250k pot, when turned up full, will give your guitar a sound that is more in keeping with vintage rock; it has a little more of a bell-like sound to it and doesn't deal quite as well with high-gain applications.

a 500k pot is probably the most "benign" sounding pot you can get; it is free of a lot of the quirks that make the 250k endearing on a Tele or Strat (which BTW on my 50th anniv Tele, I didn't change them; it would mess the tone up too much). cranked you'll get better response to gain and with a hot pickup you can even make the sound naturally distort without the use of gain sometimes.

a 1 meg pot is more of a rarity; generally, it's easier to find them online at a place like www.stewmac.com than at your local guitar shop (I went to a shop up in Santa Monica that deals in guitars that run from $600 at the cheapest to $50,000 at the most expensive and runs one of the most reputable and famous repair shops in the US and they didn't stock them). I use them in my Strat w/P90 bridge and my Kramer with a DiMarzio Tone Zone. Turned up full it's like running your guitar at full throttle; with the Strat it gives it loads of vintage bark with the P90 without me having to go to my amp and mess with distortion settings, while allowing a more mellow sound when dialed back. a side effect, at least for me, is that the 1 meg volume pot still allows sound to the amp even when all the way down :( oh well. i've always wanted an excuse to put one of those cool mini toggles on my guitar... kill switch time!!!

if you want more gain, both Lord and I can recommend the DiMarzio Tone Zone as a more progressive pickup. It's like a jacked-up, steroid-infused Super Distortion that responds to dynamics better and with high gain gives you a serious hard rock to metal sound, but still gives you a nice bluesy vibe down low.

[fastelvis]

Pony - Check your wiring - a 1 meg pot should shut off anything. Check it with an Ohmmeter to be sure it's really 1 meg. Also, if a load resistor is used (read below) check its value. These can vary a lot in value.

ALSO an added note for Silimtao on his RG and changing your volume pot value - read on... Also, Seymour Duncan probabaly made the humbucker in your RG. Check out their website first as they post the Ibanez specs. You might end up buying the same pickup you already have.

Pot value does not change signal "output" at full volume, but resistance value of the volume pot can change the "characteristics" of a pickup, at any volume. This is because it loads the entire circuit (even with pot at full CW, ground is at full resistance). The pot value will alter the pickup's "attack" toward it's peak frequency. Changing pot values changes the "amplitude" of the pickup's peak frequency across the tonal spectrum. This is often called "sparkle" or "quack" with single coils or like Pony calls "bark" on his humbi. Modern high output humbi's are not effected by pot value as much as the single coils are.
General rule - higher value pot - faster to peak.
A 1 meg pot loads the circuit more and allows the pickup to jump to the peak frequency faster. Smaller value pots spread it out or "tame" it. Put a 1 meg on a strat and it sounds like Sh*t. Usually - start with the recommended pot values by the pickup manufacturer.

Yamaha RG's are mostly 1 Humbi, 2 single configurations. Increasing the volume pot value will alter the single coil pickups sound significantly. I doubt you will like it.

NOTE - This goes for the tone pots as well since they are part of the circuit. Don't throw 500k tone pots in a strat with a 250k volume. Keep the values the same.

More cool stuff:
You can drop a resistor between the input and output of lugs on the volume pot to make the pickup think there is a smaller value pot. This will tame the pickup more. Experiment with 50k, 100k and 150k 1/2 watt resistors for humbuckers guitars loaded with 500K pots.
Check out Guitar Nuts website for wiring.

If you want more attack (like I do), drop in a 1 meg with a resistor. The pickup now "sees" a different load but somethign greater than the stock 500K. Try some 100k up to 300K resistors. OR better yet.............

VERY COOL - Instead of a resistor, drop in a "trim pot" with a value of around 250K or even higher. A trim pot is a very small pot that is turned with a screw driver (some have a little finger knob). Wire this as a variable resistor (only using the input and output). Install as above. Now you can dial in the amount resistance you want without the hassle of changing resisitor values. I have even converted tone controls to do this by wiring them in place of the trim pot. Then you can change the pickup characteristics while you're playing.

You might want to install a 0.001µF (microfarad) capacitor in parallel with the resistor or trim pot as a treble bleed circuit to retain the highs when you roll off the volume. All my humbi loaded guitars have this.

Here on some tips on pots.

1. Don't buy cheap pots. Personally, I see nothing at Stewmac that resembles a quality volume pot and the majority of guitars on the market are loaded with crap electronics. Check with your local high-end electronics store (Radio Shack DOES NOT qualify). Pick out a good, sealed, plastic composite or wire wound, audio (logrithmic) taper pot. Have them check the values with an Ohmmeter right there. Make sure it is zero at full CW and very close to the rated value at full CCW. These high quality types will often have a rectangular case with small lugs a metal tab for ground. Overheating pots can ruin them. If you do not know the correct way to solder, have someone else install them. These will last a long time, are very smooth and very, very quite. They will never need cleaning. Take you old one in with you to be sure you get the correct shaft/collar length.

[Lordathestrings]

Other than a few minor misconceptions, that's very good advice.
Pony - Check your wiring - a 1 meg pot should shut off anything. Check it with an Ohmmeter to be sure it's really 1 meg. Also, if a load resistor is used (read below) check its value. These can vary a lot in value.Actually, any value of pot should shut off completely at full CCW. In this position, the moving contact (the 'wiper') is connected to ground, or should be.

Changing pot values changes the "amplitude" of the pickup's peak frequency across the tonal spectrum. This is often called "sparkle" or "quack" with single coils or like Pony calls "bark" on his humbi.This is a bit unclear. The pickup is a signal source. The frequency content of the output signal changes according to the circuit conditions. The qualities called 'sparkle', 'bark', or sometimes 'openness' or 'detail' are the result of uper-mid and high frequency content. Lower frequencies are not significantly affected by volume pot impedance. Much of the frequency spectrum remains the same.

A 1 meg pot loads the circuit more and allows the pickup to jump to the peak frequency faster. Smaller value pots spread it out or "tame" it.A higher resistance value imposes less of a load on the pickup, particularly at the higher frequencies that determine a lot of the perceived tonal character of the sound. 'Attack' is a function of how quickly the 'envelope' of the signal amplitude goes from zero to max. A muddy tone may have a very fast rise in amplitude, but a tone with more treble content will sound like it has more attack, even if the envelope is identical.

You can drop a resistor between the input and output of lugs on the volume pot to make the pickup think there is a smaller value pot. This will tame the pickup more. Experiment with 50k, 100k and 150k 1/2 watt resistors for humbuckers guitars loaded with 500K pots....

... You might want to install a 0.001µF (microfarad) capacitor in parallel with the resistor or trim pot as a treble bleed circuit to retain the highs when you roll off the volume. All my humbi loaded guitars have this.A resistor connected from the wiper contact to the CW contact will have no effect at the CW (up full) position, because it is shorted out. As the control is moved away from this position (turned down), the low value of this resistor is seen to be in parallel with the 'upper' portion of the pot between the wiper and the CW contact. With the values given, this would result in the ability to make finer adjustments in volume at the top end of the rotation, but would drastically roll off the high-frequency content of the signal, making it sound very 'muddy' at less than full volume. This makes the additional capacitor for 'treble bleed' necessary.

Here on some tips on pots.

1. Don't buy cheap pots. Personally, I see nothing at Stewmac that resembles a quality volume pot and the majority of guitars on the market are loaded with crap electronics. Check with your local high-end electronics store (Radio Shack DOES NOT qualify). Pick out a good, sealed, plastic composite or wire wound, audio (logrithmic) taper pot. Have them check the values with an Ohmmeter right there. Make sure it is zero at full CW and very close to the rated value at full CCW. These high quality types will often have a rectangular case with small lugs a metal tab for ground. Overheating pots can ruin them. If you do not know the correct way to solder, have someone else install them. These will last a long time, are very smooth and very, very quiet. They will never need cleaning. Take your old one in with you to be sure you get the correct shaft/collar length.Yes!!

You should look for plastic composite or cermet (ceramic/metalic) element pots. The good ones are fully sealed, so they don't get dust in the works, and they are inteded to function at spec over many thousands of operations - much more than most guitars are ever likely to see. An audio-taper pot should show 10% of the total resistance measured from the wiper contact to the CCW contact at mid-rotation. Good manufacturers are CTS, Bourns, and Mu-Rata.

[PonyOne]

god damn it my head hurts now...

thanks for the info though... i figured that the not-shutting-off thing was a mistake; the resistors in the guitar are the ones that were in from the factory for the 250k pots, could that be part of the issue?

i haven't felt like going back into the guitar for the time being and since i don't have an ohm meter or and equipment to measure amplitude i can't really figure out what in the chain is disrupting things. hell, i have a 9/10 built Paia effect pedal that i haven't completely finished since i got it a year and a half ago for the very same reason... i can't figure out WTF is wrong with the thing or where it's not working properly.

thanks for the info on the pots though, once i start working again and have expendable cash i'll trade up to some nicer pots. when i was putting my Strat together I was actually considering using some medical tape to seal the pots from the outside to prevent dust etc. from getting in there, but didn't....

[Lordathestrings]

... i figured that the not-shutting-off thing was a mistake; the resistors in the guitar are the ones that were in from the factory for the 250k pots, could that be part of the issue?Resistors? If there's a resistor between the CCW terminal of the pot and ground, the pickup sees a 'pot' with a resistance of the actual pot plus the resistor, that will only turn down to the juction of the pot and the resistor. I don't need to turn my volumes all the way off, so I use this technique with my 500 k pots to simulate having a 1 meg pot that will only turn down to half volume.

... once i start working again and have expendable cash ....I don't like the sound of that. Are you no longer LA's foremost purveyor of fine German automobiles?

[kingdavid]

god damn it my head hurts now...
:D :D
Feeling schooled, huh?

[kingdavid]

...I don't like the sound of that. Are you no longer LA's foremost purveyor of fine German automobiles?...
Old news.
Where have you been?

[Lordathestrings]

Old news.
Where have you been?I don't read every post of every thread. I missed that.

[PonyOne]

this purveyor needs to get his arse back in school, sadly. i have a few leads that seem to be working out well, though... i'm not stressed about it. yet.

[Silimtao]

What, you guys electrical engineers or something? :rolleyes: I appreciate all the info though. I love to tinker with electronics and stuff (writing this on my self-made pc), but when it comes to guitar hardware, I'm incredibly dense. I really doubt I have real Seymour Duncs on either of my Ibanez'- just stock Ibanez crapola p/ups. I make up for them with my amp or effects pedals. Just want something hotter for the rare times I actually leave the house and plug into someone else's setup. Thanks again for the detailed info, but it's all Greek to me. I'll leave it to a tech for any modding. I have a hard enough time adjusting the intonation after a string change (on my Fenders)- I'll be back when it comes to changing the strings on the Ibanez with the Floyd Rose- 3 months now, and it's still in tune. I think I'm gonna sell the RG321 with a fixed tail; just feels different than the 320. Thanks again!

[ake]

Jeez....I thought I was cool cause I can replace my own light switches

[Lordathestrings]

What, you guys electrical engineers or something? ...If you click on a member's username, you can link to their profile. Some of them make interesting reading.

[Silimtao]

If you click on a member's username, you can link to their profile. Some of them make interesting reading.

Yes, I see. So can you do something about my in-laws' hydro bill? :D Thanks again!

[JACKSONUSA]

Hey Everyone,
New to the site, love it so far.

I have a 1991 Jackson USA . I think they called it a "Dinky Strat" It has the three mini toggles and covered pickups. (two singles and a double in the bridge). Recently I've started playing a lot of V/H, Rhoads and Wylde. I can't get the drive I want out of the bridge pickup. The guitar has active electroinics. In the 80's I had a Dimarzio Super D in my Ibanez LP copy and loved it. Can I put a Dimarzio in there with active electronics or is it a special pickup?. Also does anyone know what type of pickups were put in the older Jackson. Someone told me they were made my Semour Duncan for Jackson??????

[Lordathestrings]

I use the DiMarzio DP101 Dual Sound in one of my guitars. It's a 4-wire version of the DP100 Super Distortion. I recommend it because it gives you more options in addtion to the series-connected humbucker tone of the SD. These are passive pickups. There's no preamp, and no need for one.

The only problem I can see is that the stock pups do have a preamp built in to your control setup, and you will probably need to do something fancy with your switches to bypass that stuff for the humbucker. The good news is that the separate mini-toggles should make that fairly easy to do.

[cayotic727]

I know nothing about electronics, I'm fifteen. But, I say go with the PAF PRO from DiMarzio