Does Heavy Metal have much theory into it?

[alucard0941]

Does it? Im not sure if they know what they are doing or just playing fast on the fingerboard.

[Dr_simon]

Do you think Steve Vai plays heavy metal ?

As long as people like it dose it matter ?

[TOXIC SHOCK TROOPER]

Like Doc said, as long as people, as long as YOU like it, it doesn't matter. Really though, anything known about music, be it chords, scales, aprs, methods of tuning the instrument etc... its all theory. Even if the music is completely incoherent, there is theory behind it, in theory. :D

Right?

[alucard0941]

Yea I know what all yall mean.

No Im not asking if metal is musically inclined, just asking if alot of it is based of musical theory such as Jazz. I love metal, so dont get the wrong idea.

[Dr_simon]

Well what about EVH or Randy Rhodes? Do you think they spent a lot of time learning theory ? Is there contribution to contemporary music as great as say Charlie Parker ?

[Pantallica1]

Well what about EVH or Randy Rhodes? Do you think they spent a lot of time learning theory ? Is there contribution to contemporary music as great as say Charlie Parker ?

Doc, don't ya know you're not supposed to answer a question with a question?

HAHA, I just did it.

Anyways, most heavy metal is written in minor keys, and most solos take place in the natural minor mode. There are many exceptions, but that is a general formula.

[TOXIC SHOCK TROOPER]

Yes, like James Hetfield said "Major sounds too happy for us"

[chucklivesoninmyheart]

Alucard...check out this link...click on the 'download' tab.

http://www.necrophagist.de/Seiten/necrophagist_main.html

check all of the sound samples...technical death metal at its finest.

[alucard0941]

Alucard...check out this link...click on the 'download' tab.

http://www.necrophagist.de/Seiten/necrophagist_main.html

check all of the sound samples...technical death metal at its finest.

cool stuff

the guitarist has it goin on

[u10ajf]

Metal's as technical as you like. Most of it's pretty simple stuff but then you get really weird stuff like Meshuggah which is offbeat with heaps of different scales and harmonies that keep you guessing even if you've heard it hundreds of times. I wish I could get into it but it's just too clever for me to comprehend even though I really respect their awesome lead guitarist for sounding like a mixture of Allan Holdsworth and George Lynch.

[Akira]

Metal's as technical as you like. Most of it's pretty simple stuff but then you get really weird stuff like Meshuggah which is offbeat with heaps of different scales and harmonies that keep you guessing even if you've heard it hundreds of times. I wish I could get into it but it's just too clever for me to comprehend even though I really respect their awesome lead guitarist for sounding like a mixture of Allan Holdsworth and George Lynch.

Usually the chord changes are as fast as ****.

[Jolly McJollyson]

Well what about EVH or Randy Rhodes? Do you think they spent a lot of time learning theory ? Is there contribution to contemporary music as great as say Charlie Parker ?
I think Randy Rhodes spent a ton of time learning theory. He was a classical guitarist before he joined Ozzy...Also, Van Halen was an accomplished pianist, so I assume he knew quite a bit of theory. Certainly their contribution is not as great as someone like Charlie Parker, but his contribution was not as great as, say, Bach or Mozart as far as developing music goes. Besides, comparing guitarists to jazz band leaders like Charlie Parker is odious. VH and Rhodes don't have to arrange all the other instruments in the band and whatnot, all they have to do is solo. What about John Petrucci and Mike Portnoy (if ANYBODY replies to this with some moronic response like "those d00ds RAWK!!!1" I will kill everyone)? Those are two songwriters that know much more theory than I do at the moment, and it becomes apparent in their work. But if we're going to play the "who had the most effect on contemporary music?" game, then we might as well just go straight to Bach who basically made it possible and skip the whole "argument" thing.

[Dr_simon]

those d00ds RAWK!!!1 (Sorry Jolly I just couldn't help my self !!)

[Dr_simon]

I agree with you on many levels however I think you have taken the statement out of context.

In terms of impact, and I'm not talking about absolute contribution to global music theory, how many people have heard music by RR relative to CP ?

At the end of the day music is about opinions, it is not a quantifiable entity. Consequently to say one is "better" than the other is a bit of a misnomer.

[Jolly McJollyson]

In terms of impact, and I'm not talking about absolute contribution to global music theory, how many people have heard music by RR relative to CP ?
Oh, I completely agree with you. Sorry if I the way I spoke was a bit convoluted, I'm simultaneously studying for a French test I have in about half an hour. What I was meaning to say is that RR was not the musical genius that someone like Charlie Parker or Miles Davis was. Also I think Rhodes worked in a genre with (as Ian from Spinal Tap says) more selective appeal. CP worked in a genre that many more people could appreciate musically.

At the end of the day music is about opinions, it is not a quantifiable entity. Consequently to say one is "better" than the other is a bit of a misnomer.
Again, totally agree, and it's what I was getting at (albeit in a roundabout Stupid McStupid way). I just meant Rhodes and Parker were working in such different fields of music that their influences one modern music are incomparable. Every time I hear a diminished run in a metal solo nowadays I think of Randy Rhodes. Parker was working in a more mainstream (but certainly not less respectable) field and thus effected mainstream music.

[Jolly McJollyson]

P.S. I'm going to kill everyone.

[Akira]

P.S. I'm going to kill everyone.

Sometimes I wonder why I signed up for these forums.

[shreddingsoon]

speaking of metallica, a large part of thier music comes from minor classical scales as is the case with much heavy metal music. shredding is usually just a simple riff from a classical scale played at sonic speed.

[Dischord]

Then explain a lot of the King Diamond stuff I play, and Creeping Death...a lot of majors in that music

[alucard0941]

well Creeping Death is only 1 song out of their 200

[Hamberg]

Kirk Hammet (hes the lead guitar player in metallica. for those that dont know?) Anyways he knows how to play classical guitar. And James Hatfield (the rhythm guitarist of metallica) he knows how to play blues. Im assuming that this would mean the this particullar band does know, and incorporate music theory. You can see them play these styles on a 2 video box set of making the black album and the black album tour.

[Pantallica1]

Look up the Natural Minor scale and the Harmonic Minor scale.

Learn them in E minor and A minor and you can play basically every Metallica solo.

Kirk mainly stayed in Natural Minor.

[chucklivesoninmyheart]

To try and sum up the answer in short...

ALL music has theory if you analylize it.

[ScottMoney]

Personally I think metal is tedious and bitter. I know it requires some skill to play like that, but can you honestly tell me these bands are really coming up with beautiful novelties of chord progressions. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most metal songs written using power chords which technically aren't chords. If so, power chords don't even distinguish between major and minor because the 3rd is left out. So slap a solo using the tapping technique we've seen a million times onto those stale chords and you got yourself a hit!

Just my take, up for criticism :P

[Dr_simon]

Well you don't have to play a strait root fifth, you can play a root flat 3 instead so yes you can have major / minor tonality using power chords.

[ScottMoney]

sorry I'm not sure what you mean? what's root flat 3?

[ScottMoney]

would that be like if you played a (say) A minor chord A+C as opposed to A+E or A+C+E?

Also, you can't tell me that you have the option of adding a 7th

Admit it, you guys just like the sound of the cranked up chaotic gained up overdrive :P

[Dr_simon]

yep thats the one.

[Jolly McJollyson]

would that be like if you played a (say) A minor chord A+C as opposed to A+E or A+C+E?

Also, you can't tell me that you have the option of adding a 7th

Admit it, you guys just like the sound of the cranked up chaotic gained up overdrive :P
you guys? only Metal uses overdrive?

[Hamberg]

Im pretty sure that alot of metal is based off of classical theory, but even if im wrong about that, its just a theory regardless. Its not called Music Law. So the rules are subject to change. If metal bands are not following conventional theory then they must be developing their own. Which would require a great deal of talent?

[Dr_simon]

would that be like if you played a (say) A minor chord A+C as opposed to A+E or A+C+E?

Also, you can't tell me that you have the option of adding a 7th

Admit it, you guys just like the sound of the cranked up chaotic gained up overdrive :P

Well, as we were talking about power-chords and as a 7th is an extended chord it is a bit like complaining that your guitar doesn't sound like a trumpet!!!

However if you apply a little imagination it becomes apparent that people have been using flattened seventh intervals in power chords for about a billion years. Use a sixth or flattened seventh interval in conjunction with the root note and BANG there you go ???

Try it, it is normally one of the first thing people learn on the guitar often referred to as a "little finger wagger" !! Referee to the works of such luminaries as Status Quo a la "Sweet Caroline" !!

And yes, Im not a big fan of HM however I do like the sound of a balls out Marshall and what wrong with that ?

[hbkolb]

If you want to check out some good metal players check out the late great Chuck S. from the band Death, Marty Freidman, ex Megadeath, and Andy Larouche (sp) from King Diamond. All very talented players who definetly have a great knowledge of theory. Im an old shredder so excuse this post if it sounds dated but, trust me these are some good players.