Tone Zone vs. JB

[PRSplaya]

How do these pups fair against each other? What are the main differences and likeneses if any? Which do you concider to be better and for what styles? Also, what is the best neck pup to mait with those pups?

[Lordathestrings]

I suspect there aren't a lot of players who have both pups in their kennel.

I've been playing DiMarzio pickups for so long that I didn't even consider risking my dollars on another brand. I feel like I know what to expect from these guys. So when I bought a second 1984 Yamaha SBG1000 (I do tend to go with what I know), I went to DiMarzio for something a little different.

My first SBG1000 (picture a double-cutaway Les Paul with better detailing) has a DiMarzio Dual Sound DP101 at the bridge and a SCHB DP106 at the neck. It's a good pairing. The Dual Sound is a 4-wire version of the classic Super Distortion DP100 pickup. If you've heard anything recorded in the 70's, you've probably heard a wailin' guitar with at least one Super Distortion pickup in it.

The SCHB (Super Clear HumBucker) just didn't catch on for some reason. It was discontinued in the mid-80's. Too bad, 'cause it has a really nice warm, smooth sound sound that works well either clean or distorted. I prefer these 4-wire pickups because I can install Series/Parallel coil switches to add some more colours to the available sonic palette without suffering the noise problems I always had with single-coil pickups. I find that this pair work very well together, either in or out of phase.

For my second SBG1000, I wanted something with a more modern bite to it. The DiMarzio Tone Zone DP155 certainly delivers on that! There's no place to hide - the same characteristics that reward subtleties of touch and pick attack, also expose sloppy technique. When I'm on my game, this is the only pickup that can let me put it all out there without anything getting lost in the translation. It was meant for moderate-to-high-gain setups, but it works well clean, too. It's just a very expressive pickup.

I paired it with a DiMarzio PAF Pro DP151 at the neck. It reminds me of my old SCHB, but it's a bit more chimey, and it cuts through the mix better, without being aggressive about it. And it has sesitivity to pick attack that is similar to the Tone Zone. The two balance well, and when I run them out-of-phase, the result is so dramatic that it's like having a flanger built into my axe.

This combination is really, really good at letting a skilled guitarist show off their chops. I don't practice enough to qualify for that title on a consistent basis. That's the only downside to this combo. As I said before, there's nowhere to hide. If you slur your fretting, or get sloppy about muting unused strings, that's gonna come out for everyone to hear. The other side of that coin is that when you've got your **** together, the rest of the world is gonna have to settle for what you leave for them. Any little thing you do that makes your sound the individual expression that it is, will be proudly displayed. This definitely a 'take no prisoners' kind of rig.

[PRSplaya]

Thanks for the run down, that helps out alot. My Schecter has a JB and 59 set, which sounds good, but not quite what I'm looking for. The JB has decent punch, but somewhat lacks the clarity I want. The 59 is ok, but is just way too thin when compaired to my Dragon II in my PRS. I want a bridge pup that has great punch for heavy rythm parts and great clarity for lead and more dynamic rythm parts. For a neck pup, I want something that is between a modern to vintage sound that is fat and clear. The 59 is too thin and the Dragon II can get a little muddled up. Also, the Schecter has 1 volume and 1 tone knob, would the pups need a 250k tone pot or 500k pot?

[Lordathestrings]

???...... Y'know, I never looked into that! :eek:

My Yamahas have 500k pots, and I kept them because they have this slick push-push (like a ball-point pen) switch instead of the usual push-pull hardware. It's a 2-tone & 2-volume setup, so I have the tone pots selecting series/parallel, and the neck volume has a phase switch. I'd like to know what PonyOne has in his Kramer Baretta. He's another Tone Zone raver.

LOL - Maybe 250k pots would tame it a bit, so I could get away with more.

[PRSplaya]

general question here...... Would 250k pots make things a little darker and 500k brighter? or the other way around? or do they have other effects on the tone

Anybody know what PRS's come stock with? '01 custom 22 to be exact.

[Lordathestrings]

I wanted to check this out with my guitar tech before I answered.

General rule: higher volume pot resistance = more top end frequencies.

The upper limit on this seems to be about 1 Megohm. A 1 Meg pot will turn a Tele into an audio ice-pick. 500 k Ohms is fairly bright-sounding. 250 k Ohms is a bit darker.

Note that the Tone pot is a different consideration, because it is the coombination of this pot and the capacitor that determines how much treble is rolled off.

So, if I changed the 500 k Volume pots in my Yamaha SBG1000 to 250 k, it would reduce some of the high-frequency harmonics and overtones. If you find that your pickups lack detail, or sound a bit dark, it may be that changing the volume pot to a higher resistance would solve that for you. It would certainly be cheaper to try that than buying another pickup.

[PonyOne]

here's my input...

my Baretta uses a 500k push/pull tone that was put in in the factory. it doesn't work for my tone zone :( but it works on the stock Quad Rail which is a piece of crap. I never use it.

Funny the pot switch resistance question came up, because I bought some 1 megs from Stew Mac a few weeks ago to try out, just out of curiosity. I was gonig to say something, but it's for whatever reason been less an issue on my mind...

On my strat I'm currently running a 250k tone, a 1 meg tone and a 1 meg volume with stock pups (saving for a set of custom wound lefty rio grandes). YEEEOUCH! the bite on this thing when the 1 megs are bled full will take your arm off!!! in a good way. The 250/1/1 seems to be a good combination. part of a Strat's proprietary sound is from the 250k pots, which help with that blunt "quack" they're known for. what I've never like about Strats is that they have good spanky highs and warm mids but a muddy, blech low. and though the highs have that quack/spank/snap to them they haven't been articulate enough for me since I was raised on modern HB's. The 1 meg pot will help bring out some of those highs and add a more dynamic sound to the lows (making it sound more crisp as it adds definition) while the 250k still lets it cut just enough. the 1 meg volume, when cranked, means that this strat can really get down now. it responds MUCH better to heavy distortion, and using the gain on my Vox gives it a really hot vintage grind and growl that is reminiscent of a slightly less airy ES335.

best of all, when you dial the pots back they sound totally normal, so, you can get mostly the same sounds out of them as you would have before. but after I soldered in the new pots I played Cinnamon Girl by neil young and it sounded really freaking good; much more alive and crisp. think Helter Skelter-type vintage hard rock.

I put a 1 meg in the volume position in the Kramer and :eek: I love the Tone Zone for its unique voicing and dynamics; light sweeps and arpeggios will create a really pretty, fleeting, spring-like sound that is light and tender, and then jamming down a couple power chords will create this rain of overdrive and metal, while really heavy sweeping and shredding produces a very harsh, pounding tone. moderate strumming gives you a great midrange rythm sound that refuses to get lost in the mix like so many other midrange pickups do.

the new pot really just accentuates these qualities: i put the Tone Zone in and had to clean up my act, because it has no room for error. it's very unforgiving in this sense. if you hit the string wrong you and everyone listening will know it. if you can finesse the pickup, something beautiful will happen but if you screw up it'll make you look like an ass. now i'm cleaning up again. i can barely bring myself to sweep at this point because it sounds so much worse. but oh my god, the dynamics are amazing. i mean, it feels like the guitar knows what kind of sound i'm trying to get out when i move my wrist and fingers and it adjusts itself accordingly.

i hooked it up to my metal zone and... ... wow. nevermind about that Mesa...

so to paraphrase I've been interested in the different pot values since I switched the tone knob on my Epi SG to a 250k when I was 16 and got a more vintage ish sound out of it. i'm surprised that more people don't give this more thought, because i've discovered that the pots make a whole world of difference. I'd recommend the Tone Zone to anyone who is looking for a good rock pickup, it is a really amazing piece.

[PonyOne]

as a shortened, quick, unscientific guide, i'd give this as my pot switch guide:

250k: great vintage properties and great for most single coils. great mids, snappy highs. the low has a good depth to it but it lacks definition, and thus, with the wrong pickups the low E and A strings can get muddied, especially at the neck setting. A 250k with a decent humbucker will delete a lot of that mud and still give you a good, old fashioned low end.

500k: best of all worlds in many ways. good definition all across the board, and naturally provides more ring to highs than a 250k. mids tend to be more discernable than with 250k's, and lows have [b]much[/i] more definition but seem to lack the same depth as a 250k. 500k's seem to work best with humbuckers but can help bring out a lot from single coils as well.

1 meg: definition is amped WAY up; the higher sounds of your picking will be brought out, giving you more definition between notes and helping a great deal with heavy distortion, where that definition can get lost. could be painful on some guitars; I'd hate to hear a Pearly Gates running through two 1 meg tones and a 1 meg volume. leaving a 500k or 250k in with it will keep it humble and give you some interesting tones.

keep in mind that dialing down a pot will give it some of the charactaristics of a lower resistance pot, though it will never sound the same; in the case of my Strat I can still get a good, rich clean sound by dialing the 1 meg tone way down and the 250k way up, and putting the 1 meg volume @ about 50%, but can drastically change to nice, controllable overdrive by cranking both 1 megs and not touching the amp or pedal. the best thing to do is to order a few of each and a length of solder and have a go to see what sounds best to you... that's what all the fun's about.

try that 1 meg/Tone Zone combo though :cool:

[Lordathestrings]

... my Baretta uses a 500k push/pull tone that was put in in the factory. it doesn't work for my tone zone ...Hmm... YMMV, as they say.

... I put a 1 meg in the volume position in the Kramer and :eek: I love the Tone Zone for its unique voicing and dynamics... the new pot really just accentuates these qualities: i put the Tone Zone in and had to clean up my act, because it has no room for error. it's very unforgiving in this sense. if you hit the string wrong you and everyone listening will know it...That sounds (pun intended) pretty much like my experience with it. I'm puzzled by the difference in pot values, though. I'm using 500k Volume pots, and 500k Tone pots with 0.22 uF caps. The tone pots disconntect from the circuit when they're fully clockwise, but those component values seem to be good, because there's no sudden drop in treble when I roll either of the Tone knobs down a bit.

I'll have to see if I can find a 1 Meg wafer for my Volume pots. See, I loathe push/pull pots! The first time I tried to make a quick change, I flicked the knob across the room! To retain the push/push switch function, I had to canabilize some Yamaha tone pots by swapping out the resistive element (the wafer) for one from a volume pot. They are different, you know. A tone pot has a break in the resistive path on the wafer so that when the wiper (the part that moves with the knob) reaches the full clockwise position, it is disconnected from everything except the end terminal. This is shown in the wiring diagrams at DiMarzio (http://www.dimarzio.com/).

[Lordathestrings]

Hey, PonyOne!

Check your PM.

[PRSplaya]

What does YMMV stand for? I've seen it alot lately, and feel kinda dumb not being able to figure it out. So, please make me feel dumber and tell me what it means.

PonyOne, you sure you're not a sales rep for DiMarzio? lol. As soon as I get my amp situations straightened out (and the bills), I'm going to try the Tone Zone w/ 1m volume, 1m or 500k (?) tone with a .22uF cap. I'm going to do this to my Schecter since I can't bring myself to change anything about my PRS. Only thing I'm going to do to it is have the coils split and have a 3-way toggle instead of the 5-way rotary (hate it).

Thanks for all the info guy's!

[iamthe_eggman]

What does YMMV stand for? I've seen it alot lately, and feel kinda dumb not being able to figure it out. So, please make me feel dumber and tell me what it means.

Your Mileage May Vary-- i.e. your results may differ from mine.

[PRSplaya]

ok, I gotcha. Thanks! I probably wouldn't have figured that one out :rolleyes:

[RickBlacker]

I'm swapping out the pups in my Jackson DXMG Dinky. Right now it has EMG hzs in it. They sound thin to me, not thick and full.

Anyway, I'm planning on going with ToneZone bridge, Air Zone neck. Sounds to me like the ToneZone would be a great pup to learn on as it really helps you to prevent you from being sloppy.


BTW, what happen to the comparison between the ToneZone and the JB? :)

[Lordathestrings]

I'm swapping out the pups in my Jackson DXMG Dinky. Right now it has EMG hzs in it. They sound thin to me, not thick and full.
I've never tried an EMG-equipped guitar that made me want to buy any of their pups.

Anyway, I'm planning on going with ToneZone bridge, Air Zone neck. Sounds to me like the ToneZone would be a great pup to learn on as it really helps you to prevent you from being sloppy.The phrases "nowhere to hide" and "unforgiving" were chosen carefully. They can be frustratingly hard on your ego. When your touch is good, they are very rewarding. Learn well, grasshopper.

BTW, what happened to the comparison between the ToneZone and the JB? :)
I was pretty sure of myself when I said "I suspect there aren't a lot of players who have both pups in their kennel." Duncan and DiMarzio tend to inspire brand loyalty that doesn't see much overlap. I run DiMarzio in every axe I've changed the pups in. So I'm not familiar with the JB.

[RickBlacker]

Ha... Come full circle I did.

Ok, I am a lucky one here i happen to have both.

ToneZone in my Jackson DINKY DXMG Basswood
JB in my Alder mutt.

My ears; hands down favor the JB. That alder body, and jb produce such an AWESOME brown sound through my peavey valve king.

For my ears, The ToneZone is bleh. I haven't tried it with a 1meg pot though. Maybe I should before I yank it out.

[Lordathestrings]

Ah, well then. If the Brown Sound is what you seek, I can understand that the Tone Zone may not be the best choice.

From your last post, I suspect that I would find the JB to be somewhat blurred compared to the TZ. When recording multiple tracks, you may find that the JB tends to 'get lost in the mix'.

[JeffS65]

I think it's a bit like making sure that the purse and shoes match the dress....errr, well, um.... ;)

Anyway, I had JB's in a Les Paul in the 80's. It's was what was in the LP when I got it (I had a '69 Deluxe so obviously modified before I bought it). I hated them. I just never got the fullness I craved from that pick up. I think it really is a mix of the 'type' of tone you look for and if the pick up and guitar wood combination meets that need.

I remember when I got the big chunky tone I craved in the 80's and it was with a Kramer Beretta with an EMG 89 in it. Go figure.

[RickBlacker]

Ah, well then. If the Brown Sound is what you seek, I can understand that the Tone Zone may not be the best choice.
But at the same time, i don't need every guitar to sound the same either.


From your last post, I suspect that I would find the JB to be somewhat blurred compared to the TZ. When recording multiple tracks, you may find that the JB tends to 'get lost in the mix'.
Unfortunitly, i think it will be a while before I have to worry about that.

[G1619T]

Hello everyone,
Even though I don't particularly care for push pull pots and little switches all over the place, I have modified some guitars that had this capacity by switching out caps on tone pots and resistors on volume pots. For example, a 1 Meg pot switched to parallel a 500K resistor, you end up with a tapped 500K control. I have also made taps on pots that would allow normal control until around 8, then boost the signal with a pot turn to 10. Just a little louder but enough to cause some overdrive, then back off to 8 for standard loudness. You can use a switch but, I've trained my pinkie finger to roll the volume pots.
Steven